MOTM

Hey all!

I'm looking for MOTMer feedback about the FMR Really Nice 
Compressor.  With the price of two for $380, including the Funk Logic 
dual rack mount kit, it would seem just the ticket given the present 
layout of my synth and monitoring gear.  Anything would be better 
than this cheap dBX 166...

So, please tell me what you think of the RNC.  Does it limit without 
noise- pops, crackles or other DC artifacts?  Does it handle the  
synth signal (that 9 volt wall wart is less than reassuring...)?  All 
I want to do is limit the output to protect my speakers and prevent 
clipping at the mixer input. I don't need to squash the dynamic range 
to fatten this sound!

There's a lot of good press on this unit, but few reviewers are using 
large analog modulars!  Please let me know your experiences.

Chub- self-limiting (hard knee...)

> There's a lot of good press on this unit, but few reviewers are using
> large analog modulars!  Please let me know your experiences.

i really like the TC Electronics Triple C (make sure you get the stereo
version)
not only is it a very useful (multiband) compressor, but you can use it as
your main AD convertor
they're dead cheap here i the UK...

cheers
paul b
sheffield
uk

> I'm looking for MOTMer feedback about the FMR Really Nice 
> Compressor.  With the price of two for $380, including the Funk Logic 
> dual rack mount kit, it would seem just the ticket given the present 
> layout of my synth and monitoring gear.  Anything would be better 
> than this cheap dBX 166...


I had one, but the tc electronics Triple-C blows the doors off it.

Paul S.

Hey Chub -

For what it's worth, I don't compress or limit the signal from the 
modular to my deck.  I use the trim on the inputs to match levels.  
If an occassional signal is still to hot, I attenuate in the synth.

I tried using compressors, both outboard and digital and it just 
kills the dynamics.  On some tracks, very rarely, I'll add a little 
compression to get the track to 'sit' in the mix better.   I rarely 
use EQ, either.  I like to get the right dynamics and timbre out of 
the synth and record it naked. I do use reverb and delay, and some 
other weird Kyma stuff more, though.  When i mix down, I sometimes 
use a limiter to boost overall track gain, but less and less lately.

I have a nice Aphex that I use on vocals.  It's mono, but pro and 
sounds pretty nice.  Another inexpensive compressor that I like with 
guitar and with the MOTM is the ART TubeCompressor.  Inexpensive but 
pretty fat sounding.  The compressor in the Roland S-50 sucks, as 
does any compressor from Alesis that I've heard.  Opinions, opinions.

Mike


--- In motm@yahoogroups.com, "osthelder" <osthelder@n...> wrote:
> Hey all!
> 
> I'm looking for MOTMer feedback about the FMR Really Nice 
> Compressor.  With the price of two for $380, including the Funk 
Logic 
> dual rack mount kit, it would seem just the ticket given the 
present 
> layout of my synth and monitoring gear.  Anything would be better 
> than this cheap dBX 166...
> 
> So, please tell me what you think of the RNC.  Does it limit 
without 
> noise- pops, crackles or other DC artifacts?  Does it handle the  
> synth signal (that 9 volt wall wart is less than reassuring...)?  
All 
> I want to do is limit the output to protect my speakers and prevent 
> clipping at the mixer input. I don't need to squash the dynamic 
range 
> to fatten this sound!
> 
> There's a lot of good press on this unit, but few reviewers are 
using 

> large analog modulars!  Please let me know your experiences.
> 
> Chub- self-limiting (hard knee...)

Typically, I don't compress anything.  With the synth I wanted some 
limiting going on to prevent blown tweeters while experimenting.  
The '266 is set up to limit but strong peaks cause an annoying 
popping sound which I attribute to the VCA of the dBX.  Attenuating 
at the output mixer(s) of the synth take care of this and leaves the 
limiter effectively out of the picture.  

I guess that it just bothers me to have ANY artifacts of the limiter 
in the signal chain.  Maybe I should just fuse my tweeters and pull 
the '266 from the rack.  They way I'm using it now seems a bit of a 
waste.  Thanks for the "correct" answer, Mike!

Chub- no limits 

--- In motm@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Marsh" <mmarsh@w...> wrote:
> Hey Chub -
> 
> For what it's worth, I don't compress or limit the signal from the 
> modular to my deck.  I use the trim on the inputs to match levels.  
> If an occassional signal is still to hot, I attenuate in the synth.
> 
> I tried using compressors, both outboard and digital and it just 
> kills the dynamics.  On some tracks, very rarely, I'll add a little 
> compression to get the track to 'sit' in the mix better.   I rarely 
> use EQ, either.  I like to get the right dynamics and timbre out of 
> the synth and record it naked. I do use reverb and delay, and some 
> other weird Kyma stuff more, though.  When i mix down, I sometimes 
> use a limiter to boost overall track gain, but less and less lately.
> 
> I have a nice Aphex that I use on vocals.  It's mono, but pro and 
> sounds pretty nice.  Another inexpensive compressor that I like 
with 
> guitar and with the MOTM is the ART TubeCompressor.  Inexpensive 
but 
> pretty fat sounding.  The compressor in the Roland S-50 sucks, as 
> does any compressor from Alesis that I've heard.  Opinions, 
opinions.
> 
> Mike
> 
> 
> --- In motm@yahoogroups.com, "osthelder" <osthelder@n...> wrote:
> > Hey all!
> > 
> > I'm looking for MOTMer feedback about the FMR Really Nice 
> > Compressor.  With the price of two for $380, including the Funk 
> Logic 
> > dual rack mount kit, it would seem just the ticket given the 
> present 
> > layout of my synth and monitoring gear.  Anything would be better 
> > than this cheap dBX 166...
> > 
> > So, please tell me what you think of the RNC.  Does it limit 
> without 
> > noise- pops, crackles or other DC artifacts?  Does it handle the  
> > synth signal (that 9 volt wall wart is less than reassuring...)?  
> All 
> > I want to do is limit the output to protect my speakers and 
prevent 

> > clipping at the mixer input. I don't need to squash the dynamic 
> range 
> > to fatten this sound!
> > 
> > There's a lot of good press on this unit, but few reviewers are 
> using 
> > large analog modulars!  Please let me know your experiences.
> > 
> > Chub- self-limiting (hard knee...)

On Tuesday, November 25, 2003, at 06:01 PM, motm@yahoogroups.com wrote:

> I'm looking for MOTMer feedback about the FMR Really Nice
> Compressor.  With the price of two for $380, including the Funk Logic
> dual rack mount kit, it would seem just the ticket given the present
> layout of my synth and monitoring gear.  Anything would be better
> than this cheap dBX 166...
>
> So, please tell me what you think of the RNC.  Does it limit without
>
> There's a lot of good press on this unit, but few reviewers are using
> large analog modulars!  Please let me know your experiences.

I've not used it as a limiter, but as a compressor there is no other 
serious option under $500 list. Maybe even under $1k. It's pretty 
amazing. Don't let the wall-wart stand in your way.

While I haven't heard of it being used as a limiter in a monitoring 
situation, it is certainly transparent enough to handle it. What I'm 
not sure of is whether it would be -fast- enough to grab a transient 
before it fried a tweet, although the detector circuit in there is 
pretty stinkin' fast.

There's lots in the Usenet archives at Google in rec.audio.pro. Do a 
search for RNC and you'll come up with volumes.

e

RNC is a really clean compressor. It sounds really
good if used properly and with the right materiel.
I've found... program materiel good, kick drum good
(and drums in general), synth (esp. synth bass) not so
good. I usually only compress (to tighten) synth bass
and percussive synth sounds.

I bought a Distressor for synth and it sounds
fantastic. I also had a Meek for a while. It sounded
good on synth bass, but not so good for program or
drums. YMMV.

check the archives on rec.audio.pro.
  

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I can't help but think that most of the replies to the original query have
missed the point. The original query was (in part):

> All 
> I want to do is limit the output to protect my speakers and prevent
> clipping at the mixer input. I don't need to squash the dynamic range
> to fatten this sound!

Most of the replies have focused on the relative merits of compressors and
compression, which is a related but different topic. It seems to me that the
original query hasn't really been addressed, and is relevant to this list.
Or maybe I just think it's relevant because it's something I've wondered
about myself. :-)

So maybe I'll try putting a similar query in my own words: is it sensible to
use a peak limiter between the output of a modular synth and the input of a
mixer or A/D converter or whatever you happen to be using for monitoring and
recording, not for controlling the dynamics of the signal but for protecting
your input stages/pre-amps/power amps/speakers/ears (most important) from
the 10V p-p signals present in a MOTM? If so, what is a good unit for this
task?

Under normal circumstances, of course, the output of a synth is nothing to
worry about--the output signals are much smaller than the 10V p-p modulation
signals. But accidents happen (happy accidents being one of the reasons to
own a modular in the first place) and it seems to me that it can't be a good
thing to plug the unattenuated pulse output of a 320 LFO directly into a
pair of powered monitors, for example. It'll scare the pants off you and
anyone else around, for one thing.

I've adopted the practice of always using an 830 mixer as the output point
of my MOTM; that is, I connect the output (OUT 2) of the 830 to my mixing
desk, A/D converter, whatever. I start with all of its level knobs rotated
fully CCW and turn them up slowly after patching new signals into the mix.
This is only a partial solution, though.

(As an aside, I have an RNC compressor and am very fond of it. I haven't
tried using it as a peak limiter, but it's lovely for other tasks.)

--Adam

This is what I was trying to say with my original reply: I don't 
need to limit the output of the MOTM even when generating nasty 
timbres.  I use the trims on the inputs of my mixer, because 
compression/limiting affects the dynamics of the track too much 
(most of the time).

Mike

--- In motm@yahoogroups.com, Adam Schabtach <adam@s...> wrote:
> I can't help but think that most of the replies to the original 
query have
> missed the point. The original query was (in part):
> 
> > All 
> > I want to do is limit the output to protect my speakers and 
prevent
> > clipping at the mixer input. I don't need to squash the dynamic 
range
> > to fatten this sound!
> 
> Most of the replies have focused on the relative merits of 
compressors and
> compression, which is a related but different topic. It seems to 
me that the
> original query hasn't really been addressed, and is relevant to 
this list.
> Or maybe I just think it's relevant because it's something I've 
wondered
> about myself. :-)
> 
> So maybe I'll try putting a similar query in my own words: is it 
sensible to
> use a peak limiter between the output of a modular synth and the 
input of a
> mixer or A/D converter or whatever you happen to be using for 
monitoring and
> recording, not for controlling the dynamics of the signal but for 
protecting
> your input stages/pre-amps/power amps/speakers/ears (most 
important) from
> the 10V p-p signals present in a MOTM? If so, what is a good unit 
for this
> task?
> 
> Under normal circumstances, of course, the output of a synth is 
nothing to
> worry about--the output signals are much smaller than the 10V p-p 
modulation
> signals. But accidents happen (happy accidents being one of the 
reasons to
> own a modular in the first place) and it seems to me that it can't 
be a good
> thing to plug the unattenuated pulse output of a 320 LFO directly 
into a
> pair of powered monitors, for example. It'll scare the pants off 
you and
> anyone else around, for one thing.
> 
> I've adopted the practice of always using an 830 mixer as the 
output point
> of my MOTM; that is, I connect the output (OUT 2) of the 830 to my 
mixing
> desk, A/D converter, whatever. I start with all of its level knobs 
rotated
> fully CCW and turn them up slowly after patching new signals into 
the mix.
> This is only a partial solution, though.
> 
> (As an aside, I have an RNC compressor and am very fond of it. I 
haven't

> tried using it as a peak limiter, but it's lovely for other tasks.)
> 
> --Adam