MOTM

We all know that the Stooges offer modules from other manufacturers 
as well as some original modules in MOTM format.  But can anybody 
name off the top of their heads which modules those are?  (Stooges 
put your hands down).

So here's an idea:  Why not have a Stooge page on the MOTM site?  It 
seems to me this would be a good selling point.  Knowing that some of 
the best designs from other manufacturers are available in MOTM 
format could prove to be a real "deal maker" for people considering 
whether or not to buy a MOTM system.

johnm

In fact: over the 'break' I plan to go over the website. Any other suggestions welcome!

Paul S.

> So here's an idea:  Why not have a Stooge page on the MOTM site?  It
> seems to me this would be a good selling point.  Knowing that some of
> the best designs from other manufacturers are available in MOTM
> format could prove to be a real "deal maker" for people considering
> whether or not to buy a MOTM system.

And a serious deal killer to buying the harder to get MOTM equivalent. 
I don't mean to sound callous, but that doesn't sound like a very smart 
business decision to be advertising your competition. True, Paul's 
lineup has some large holes, and this page probably would only cover 
modules that fill those holes, but I suspect that Joe Modular buyer 
would probably look at the particular companies modular format in 
question as well.

Larry's service appeals to a limited subset of the Modular buying 
public in general, an already microscopic market. I think a better spot 
for this would be on Larry's site (which it is, I wish it had more 
pictures of finished conversions ^_^)

I don't want to discredit the service the Stooges do here, just to 
point out that advertising MOTM panels for 3rd parties on the Synthtech 
site could have some unintended consequences. I certainly won't argue 
that being able to get a panel for any 3rd party format is pretty 
attractive!

I think efforts would better be spent just evangelizing the MOTM format 
in general, (if the goal is to expand the MOTM user base and there-by 
keep Paul in the business of making and selling cool stuff.) The truly 
die hard will find the Stooges and this list soon enough (as Paul sent 
me here after I bought my system.) The past is littered with small 
Modular system manufactures for a reason, it's a very small, 
competitive submarket of an already small market. Quick: name a modular 
maker from the 70's who still makes modulars.

I think better "deal makers" would be next day shipping and better 
availability. ^_^

--mikes

On Oct 28, 2003, at 1:35 PM, liquidcolor@... wrote:

>> Quick: name a modular
>> maker from the 70's who still makes modulars.
>
> Blacet

Touché ^_^

--mikes

And Paia.  And..was Serge doing modules in the late 70s?

Crow

On Tue, 28 Oct 2003, Mike Estee wrote:

> 
> On Oct 28, 2003, at 1:35 PM, liquidcolor@... wrote:
> 
> >> Quick: name a modular
> >> maker from the 70's who still makes modulars.
> >
> > Blacet
> 
> Touch\ufffd ^_^
> 
> --mikes

Mike E. wrote:

>I don't mean to sound callous, but that doesn't sound like a very 
smart business decision to be advertising your competition. True, 
Paul's lineup has some large holes, and this page probably would only 
cover modules that fill those holes, but I suspect that Joe Modular 
buyer would probably look at the particular companies modular format 
in question as well.<

Oh, I couldn't disagree more.  First off, Paul's lineup does NOT have 
large holes.  He has all the modules you need for a basic system, 
plus some.  The Stooge modules are "gravy" modules. 

Now consider Joe Modular Buyer.  He goes to the Blacet site and finds 
Blacet modules.  Great.  Next he visits the MOTM site where he finds 
MOTM modules AND Blacet modules.  Even better.  Oh and look— you can 
get that neato Encore frequency shifter in MOTM format too!  Uh-oh…no 
MOTM cabinets.  That's a bummer.  Oh wait—the Stooges make them.  
SOLD.

FWIW, lack of cabinets was an actual deal-breaker for me.  MOTM was 
my first choice of synthesizer, as I liked the large size and the 
specs.   But the rack-mount format sucked.  Racks are generally too 
deep and heavy for housing synth modules.  I wanted a more sensible 
solution.  So I searched and searched and finally found a rack that 
would work, though it was still too deep for my tastes.  By that 
time, however, somebody tipped me off to Synthesizers.com, which 
offered a good selection AND beautiful instrument cabinets.  Had 
cabinets and the additional temptation of outside modules been 
available from Synthtech at that time, Paul would have been at least 
$7,000 richer.

One last thing: Most people interested in modular systems have bought 
their base systems by now.  The next phase of the analog revival is 
reformatting.  Modcan was one of the first to recognize this and 
wisely supported Cyndustries.  I know from talking to people who have 
bought or are planning to buy Modcan that the added value of Cynthia 
modules clenched the deal.  Anyone who doubts this should consider 
how often you see "Modcan/Cynthia" written nowadays rather 
than "Modcan."   Synthtech would likewise benefit from making the 
added value of Stooge modules known to prospective buyers from the 
very start.  


>Quick: name a modular maker from the 70's who still makes modulars.<

PAIA.

johnm

Yes.  In the late 70's I assembled some Serge machines for people.  Back 
then you could order a set of modules in kit form.  The boards came 
pre-assembled.  You created your own panel layout by pasting paper overlays 
onto a generic panel and covering it with a layer of plastic, cutting holes 
with a knife for the pots, jacks and switches.  Then you just wired up the 
boards to the panel.  Serges are still available, but only completely 
assembled:

http://www.scampers.com/EGRES/index.htm

This site is interesting to browse.  I have a pretty big interest in those 
oddball circuit designs, but I don't find the product attractive.  It is 
too high-priced, not truly modular, and not available in kit form.  Boy 
would I love it if they sold just the circuits.  (Suppose if we all 
pestered them, it would start to look like a good business 
proposition?)  It would create a whole new line of Stooge panels!  But 
would Serge circuits get the MOTM seal of approval?  Err.. doubtful :-)  I 
mean, 330 ohm output impedance?  Hee hee.

-Richard Brewster

At 04:40 PM 10/28/03 -0500, The Old Crow wrote:

>   And Paia.  And..was Serge doing modules in the late 70s?
>
>Crow
>
>On Tue, 28 Oct 2003, Mike Estee wrote:
>
> >
> > On Oct 28, 2003, at 1:35 PM, liquidcolor@earthlink.net wrote:
> >
> > >> Quick: name a modular
> > >> maker from the 70's who still makes modulars.
> > >
> > > Blacet
> >
> > Touché ^_^
> >
> > --mikes

> would I love it if they sold just the circuits.  (Suppose if we all
> pestered them, it would start to look like a good business
> proposition?) 

This has been discussed ad-nauseum on the Serge list, and directly with 
Rex as well. He has absolutely no interest in selling individual modules 
or kits or circuits for that matter.  He's been pestered to death on 
this by folks trying to purchase individual modules and he ain't budging.

If you've been keeping up with prices, Rex just did some major increases 
as well - as much at 50% or 60% for some modules! A lot of folks that 
have been on the Serge list have been saying "Well, there goes me ever 
thinking about buying a panel....", and some owners going "Well, I can 
get a whole lot more for a used panel now".

Me? I don't care WHO builds it, I'm not paying $525 for an oscillator...

Let's look your basic shop (preconfigured) panel - let's use the 
"Animal" as an example:

http://www.scampers.com/EGRES/shop_misc.html

What's in this thing?
1 New Timbral Oscillator
1 Precision Oscillator
1 Triple Wave Multiplier
1 3x1 mixer
1 Smooth/Step Generator - basically a slew limiter combined
   with a sample-hold.
1 Dual Transient Generator - probably the most insane module in
   the Serge Catalog. What *can't* this thing do?
1 Variable Q Filter
1 UAP output module with 2 VCA's cross
   connected to provide panning or crossfading...

Price? About $3300.

So, this is your price ENTRY point into Serge now.  Eeks!  While there's 
an amazing amount of functionality in that panel, it's certainly easier 
to buy modules form someone else like Paul, one at a time, and get your 
system exactly like you want it.  With Serge, you better get your panel 
config right the first time, because it's set in stone.  I've got a 
friend with a large system and he's got a few panels that has him going 
"What the heck was I thinking when I asked for this layout??".

Heh....

There's a lot of the "old" Serge circuit diagrams hanging around. Many 
were published in Synapse or somewhere like that, by Serge himself, 
often under another name. Study them, improve on them a bit since 
they're getting a little dusty, build it and get the Stooges to make you 
a panel!

Between what's already available, and some stuff that's been announced, 
I really don't see much lacking in the MOTM format myself...

-- 
Les Mizzell
-------------------------
\ufffdMihi placent, O Pincerna!
  Virent ova! Viret perna!
  Dapem posthac non arcebo.
  Gratum tibi me praebebo.\ufffd

Hi all--

>If you've been keeping up with prices, Rex just did some major increases
>as well - as much at 50% or 60% for some modules! A lot of folks that
>have been on the Serge list have been saying "Well, there goes me ever
>thinking about buying a panel....", and some owners going "Well, I can
>>get a whole lot more for a used panel now".
>
>Me? I don't care WHO builds it, I'm not paying $525 for an oscillator...

At one time I'd considered commissioning an 'Animal' Panel myself, but a
look at the prices made me reconsider!  I always thought of the early Serge
as a 'synth for the people'- sensibly priced, available as a kit, and set up
to fit behind a generalized panel. A very cool concept it was. Sadly, it's
become priced for the more well-to-do.  But if that's the way Rex wants it,
then that's the way it is!

I'm happy running MOTM + Blacet + Ken Stone + Oakley + Encore, and my
dollars have gone quite a bit further than they would have had I set about
getting Serge stuff.

Now about those walnut slant cabinets...  :-)

Frank Vanaman

> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: Frank Vanaman <fvanaman@...>
> Now about those walnut slant cabinets...  :-)

Sigh.......

> Had cabinets and the additional temptation of outside modules been
> available from Synthtech at that time, Paul would have been at least
> $7,000 richer.

You've got some good points there. The lack of an enclosure (not rack, 
but enclosure, to be put into a rack) Kinda bugs me. I'd really like a 
nice aluminum case with knock outs for DC/AC power and midi, plus a few 
1/4". These would be 5U by 19 and I could stuff modules to my hearts 
content. Anyway, I'm rambling. The lack of a case solution on the 
website is worth noting.

--mikes

> While there's 
> an amazing amount of functionality in that panel, it's certainly easier
> to buy modules form someone else like Paul, one at a time, and get your
> system exactly like you want it.  With Serge, you better get your panel
> config right the first time, because it's set in stone.

That was exactly the issue that turned me off Serge as a format, despite
falling in love with a friend's large Serge system and then getting a
personal tour of the business by Rex himself. (It was kinda fun, yes.) The
increments are too big. If you want to expand your system, you're looking in
terms of multiples of $2000 (roughly), rather than multiples of $200
(roughly).
  
> Between what's already available, and some stuff that's been announced,
> I really don't see much lacking in the MOTM format myself...

I tend to agree. One of the number of reasons I went with MOTM is because it
seemed that pretty much all of the basics were covered. Yes, it's always
possible to name some module (past or present) that isn't in the MOTM line,
but that's true of any individual synthesizer vendor. Another reason that I
chose MOTM was because it was the format most frequently mentioned on other
vendors' websites (i.e., descriptions of how to interface their modules with
MOTM systems). And that's the beauty of a modular system: you can mix
modules from different vendors. Yes, it may take some work with a Stooge
panel or a Blacet adapter panel, but if you're looking for easy solutions,
why on Earth are you using a modular in the first place? :-)

IMHO Paul should keep doing what Paul likes to do, because anything else
will make him grumpy and decide to go back to having a real job. Paul's
module line is an idiosyncratic expression of what Paul thinks should be in
his line. I wouldn't have it any other way.

--Adam

I'm in the process of generating some demo file for the frequency shifter
and I'm currently using the crappy Windows Recorder. I would like a
recommendation on a WAV to MP3 converter that is:

1. Easy to use
2. Inexpensive or better yet: free
3. Relatively bug free

I don't have the time to go trying out all sorts of freeware, so I was
hoping someone on this list has already found something good.

Thanks,
Tony

If anyone cares to d/l a 2MB WAV file, here is one sample of the FS mangling
a Kraftwerk classic:

http://www.encoreelectronics.com/wav/FS1.wav

I'm basically just playing around with the frequency knobs and feedback
knobs while the song is running. 

I will be coming up with more demos ASAP, but I want to MP3 them to help
those with dial up. (This file only takes me 5 seconds to d/l but I'm sure
it would be a pain for 56k modem folks.

Tony

-----Original Message-----
From: Tony Karavidas [mailto:tony@...] 
Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2003 2:30 PM
To: 'MOTM List'
Subject: RE: [motm] Quick and easy way to make MP3 files from WAV files.

I'm in the process of generating some demo file for the frequency shifter
and I'm currently using the crappy Windows Recorder. I would like a
recommendation on a WAV to MP3 converter that is:

1. Easy to use
2. Inexpensive or better yet: free
3. Relatively bug free

I don't have the time to go trying out all sorts of freeware, so I was
hoping someone on this list has already found something good.

Thanks,
Tony





 

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Electronic Cosmo
http://ec2000.xperiment.net/index.php?id=software
MPEG Suite 2001
Larry H

----- Original Message -----
From: Tony Karavidas <tony@...>
To: 'MOTM List' <motm@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2003 4:38 PM
Subject: RE: [motm] Quick and easy way to make MP3 files from WAV files.



If anyone cares to d/l a 2MB WAV file, here is one sample of the FS mangling
a Kraftwerk classic:

http://www.encoreelectronics.com/wav/FS1.wav

I'm basically just playing around with the frequency knobs and feedback
knobs while the song is running.

I will be coming up with more demos ASAP, but I want to MP3 them to help
those with dial up. (This file only takes me 5 seconds to d/l but I'm sure
it would be a pain for 56k modem folks.

Tony


-----Original Message-----
From: Tony Karavidas [mailto:tony@...]
Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2003 2:30 PM
To: 'MOTM List'
Subject: RE: [motm] Quick and easy way to make MP3 files from WAV files.

I'm in the process of generating some demo file for the frequency shifter
and I'm currently using the crappy Windows Recorder. I would like a
recommendation on a WAV to MP3 converter that is:

1. Easy to use
2. Inexpensive or better yet: free
3. Relatively bug free

I don't have the time to go trying out all sorts of freeware, so I was
hoping someone on this list has already found something good.

Thanks,
Tony







Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/








Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

--- In motm@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Schreiber" <synth1@a...> wrote:
> In fact: over the 'break' I plan to go over the website. Any other 
suggestions welcome!
> 
> Paul S.

I would really like to see an area for patches, both basic and 
exotic. This would have been really helpful when I was first deciding 
which modules to buy for a basic system, and it would have saved Paul 
a lot of time on the phone explaining things to me.
I think Mike Marsh started a folder for patches in the files section 
of this site, but he seems to be the only person so far who has 
contributed (thanks for the effort, Mike!).
The best-case scenario would include sound samples for each patch and 
notes on which parameters to tweak, etc.
~Terry

> I would really like to see an area for patches, both basic and 
> exotic. This would have been really helpful when I was first 
deciding 
> which modules to buy for a basic system


I'd like to see this too! Newbies like myself need a little help and 
guidance.  Random accidents are cool, but textbook patches would 
really be a help to many people starting out.


> I think Mike Marsh started a folder for patches in the files 
section 
> of this site, but he seems to be the only person so far who has 
> contributed (thanks for the effort, Mike!).

Mike is the Man!

Hi Tony,

There are many such apps. available free on the net - as you know.  I 
have about 8 or so on disks in various places scattered throughout my 
mess - yet I have been just using Sonar for awhile adnb haven't 
easily located them -  and i am sorry: I cannot remember the name of 
a single one of these things convertors!

But - just do a search and you will find the most trusted and 
prevalent.  If you are still in doubt - I can look around and get you 
or send you what I have.  Yet they really are everywhere - just like 
all the things that shouldn't be there too.

the majority of stuff I've come across - seems to be for the guys who 
do gaming soundtrack stuff or some such 'other' "cryptic music 
making" methods - and then the hackers, etc...

There's a whole world of this stuff out there which I've never had a 
clue about before - and its easy to go spinning off trying to figure 
out what its for - then you realize - its everyone else trying to 
figure out "music" without really going through some of the necessary 
steps.  But I digress...whatever it takes!

Email me offlist if you need further assistance-

(Like my small arsenal of MOTMs - my 2 UEGs are dying to find a home 
and start intermingling with their buddies - and now I'm gonna have 
to get this FS thing too!)

Does it end?

Cheerio,

Rog

Thanks for the replies from everyone.

I ended up with Mike's suggestion of iTunes for Windows. It converts great!
The only problem I'm having with it is a lock up when I go to the
Edit-Preferences-Burning tab...it just locks up and I have to use the Task
Manager to kill it. Hmmm....

Anyway, I was using XP's sound recorder for the first 4 files and then I
discovered it could save in MP3 format, but it was really crappy as shown:

http://www.encoreelectronics.com/wav/

I found my Cakewalk CD, installed it, and used that to record a couple
minutes from a CD while changing various knobs. I saved it in WAV format and
then opened that in iTunes and saved it again in MP3 format. (called
FSwave1.mp3 in that directory) It sounds better, but there were a few areas
where it got too loud.

I don't want to spend too much time screwing around with sound files right
now...I still need to get the sheet metal wrapped up and launched.

Tony

-----Original Message-----
From: Roger Rossen [mailto:mididood@...] 
Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2003 9:34 PM
To: motm@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [motm] RE: Quick and easy way to make MP3 files from WAV files.

Hi Tony,

There are many such apps. available free on the net - as you know.  I 
have about 8 or so on disks in various places scattered throughout my 
mess - yet I have been just using Sonar for awhile adnb haven't 
easily located them -  and i am sorry: I cannot remember the name of 
a single one of these things convertors!

But - just do a search and you will find the most trusted and 
prevalent.  If you are still in doubt - I can look around and get you 
or send you what I have.  Yet they really are everywhere - just like 
all the things that shouldn't be there too.

the majority of stuff I've come across - seems to be for the guys who 
do gaming soundtrack stuff or some such 'other' "cryptic music 
making" methods - and then the hackers, etc...

There's a whole world of this stuff out there which I've never had a 
clue about before - and its easy to go spinning off trying to figure 
out what its for - then you realize - its everyone else trying to 
figure out "music" without really going through some of the necessary 
steps.  But I digress...whatever it takes!

Email me offlist if you need further assistance-

(Like my small arsenal of MOTMs - my 2 UEGs are dying to find a home 
and start intermingling with their buddies - and now I'm gonna have 
to get this FS thing too!)

Does it end?

Cheerio,

Rog



 

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Oh yeah, 36 seconds into the file FS2.mp3 I got carried away with the
feedback knob, so watch out!!

Tony

-----Original Message-----
From: Tony Karavidas [mailto:tony@...] 
Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2003 9:56 PM
To: 'Roger Rossen'; motm@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [motm] RE: Quick and easy way to make MP3 files from WAV files.

Thanks for the replies from everyone.

I ended up with Mike's suggestion of iTunes for Windows. It converts great!
The only problem I'm having with it is a lock up when I go to the
Edit-Preferences-Burning tab...it just locks up and I have to use the Task
Manager to kill it. Hmmm....

Anyway, I was using XP's sound recorder for the first 4 files and then I
discovered it could save in MP3 format, but it was really crappy as shown:

http://www.encoreelectronics.com/wav/

I found my Cakewalk CD, installed it, and used that to record a couple
minutes from a CD while changing various knobs. I saved it in WAV format and
then opened that in iTunes and saved it again in MP3 format. (called
FSwave1.mp3 in that directory) It sounds better, but there were a few areas
where it got too loud.

I don't want to spend too much time screwing around with sound files right
now...I still need to get the sheet metal wrapped up and launched.

Tony


-----Original Message-----
From: Roger Rossen [mailto:mididood@...] 
Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2003 9:34 PM
To: motm@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [motm] RE: Quick and easy way to make MP3 files from WAV files.

Hi Tony,

There are many such apps. available free on the net - as you know.  I 
have about 8 or so on disks in various places scattered throughout my 
mess - yet I have been just using Sonar for awhile adnb haven't 
easily located them -  and i am sorry: I cannot remember the name of 
a single one of these things convertors!

But - just do a search and you will find the most trusted and 
prevalent.  If you are still in doubt - I can look around and get you 
or send you what I have.  Yet they really are everywhere - just like 
all the things that shouldn't be there too.

the majority of stuff I've come across - seems to be for the guys who 
do gaming soundtrack stuff or some such 'other' "cryptic music 
making" methods - and then the hackers, etc...

There's a whole world of this stuff out there which I've never had a 
clue about before - and its easy to go spinning off trying to figure 
out what its for - then you realize - its everyone else trying to 
figure out "music" without really going through some of the necessary 
steps.  But I digress...whatever it takes!

Email me offlist if you need further assistance-

(Like my small arsenal of MOTMs - my 2 UEGs are dying to find a home 
and start intermingling with their buddies - and now I'm gonna have 
to get this FS thing too!)

Does it end?

Cheerio,

Rog



 

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 






 

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

>I ended up with Mike's suggestion of iTunes for Windows. It converts great!
>The only problem I'm having with it is a lock up when I go to the
>Edit-Preferences-Burning tab...it just locks up and I have to use the Task
>Manager to kill it. Hmmm....

There's already been at least one update to deal with some issue. Of course
if you just downloaded it it SHOULD be the latest version...
-- 

Terry Bowman, KA4HJH
"The Mac Doctor"

I just checked and it is current. 4.1.1.54

Thanks,
Tony

-----Original Message-----
From: KA4HJH [mailto:ka4hjh@...] 
Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2003 10:31 PM
To: motm@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [motm] RE: Quick and easy way to make MP3 files from WAV files.

>I ended up with Mike's suggestion of iTunes for Windows. It converts great!
>The only problem I'm having with it is a lock up when I go to the
>Edit-Preferences-Burning tab...it just locks up and I have to use the Task
>Manager to kill it. Hmmm....

There's already been at least one update to deal with some issue. Of course
if you just downloaded it it SHOULD be the latest version...
-- 

Terry Bowman, KA4HJH
"The Mac Doctor"


 

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

With the recent Serge price escalations the increments are more like $3500
per panel.

John Loffink
The Microtonal Synthesis Web Site
http://www.microtonal-synthesis.com
The Wavemakers Synthesizer Web Site
http://www.wavemakers-synth.com

> That was exactly the issue that turned me off Serge as a format, despite
> falling in love with a friend's large Serge system and then getting a
> personal tour of the business by Rex himself. (It was kinda fun, yes.) The
> increments are too big. If you want to expand your system, you're looking
> in terms of multiples of $2000 (roughly), rather than multiples of $200
> (roughly).
>

Add me to the list of newbies who could use more help in the patch
department.

 

- chris

-----Original Message-----
From: josephcasbarian [mailto:josephcasbarian@...] 
Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2003 8:00 PM
To: motm@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [motm] Re: Suggestion for MOTM Web site

 

> I would really like to see an area for patches, both basic and 
> exotic. This would have been really helpful when I was first 
deciding 
> which modules to buy for a basic system


I'd like to see this too! Newbies like myself need a little help and 
guidance.  Random accidents are cool, but textbook patches would 
really be a help to many people starting out.


> I think Mike Marsh started a folder for patches in the files 
section 
> of this site, but he seems to be the only person so far who has 
> contributed (thanks for the effort, Mike!).

Mike is the Man!