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Thoughts on gate & trigger processing modules

Thoughts on gate & trigger processing modules

1999-10-25 by The Old Crow

Being a sequencer fanatic, it is only natural that I tend to pay
attention to ways to create gates and triggers.  I'm already tinkering
with dividing pulses, but was interested in what folks thought about...

  ...a pre-loadable gate/trig shift register with cascadable input and
output, as well as a voltage-controlled shifter clock with initial rate
knob.  Switches select the desired pre-loaded register states; LEDs show
the current output states.  Not a complete analog sequencer chain, but
quite good at complex trigger chains.

  ...a N/M rate multipler.  Using a fast PLL, should be able to settle
within one or two input cycles.  Would provide elusive rates like 5/3, etc
with each output pulse evenly spaced.  Could probably voltage-control N
and M.

  --Scott

/**/

Re: Thoughts on gate & trigger processing modules

1999-10-25 by Paul Schreiber

>  ...a pre-loadable gate/trig shift register with cascadable input and
>output, as well as a voltage-controlled shifter clock with initial rate
>knob.  Switches select the desired pre-loaded register states; LEDs show
>the current output states.  Not a complete analog sequencer chain, but
>quite good at complex trigger chains.


Got a 1975 Blacet catalog that has this thing. Uses a DIP switch to load
stuff in.

>
Paul S.

Re: Thoughts on gate & trigger processing modules

1999-10-25 by JWBarlow@xxx.xxx

I've mentioned this module a few times on this list before and imagine that 
people have underrated it's utility. I've use one before and really liked it 
-- not the DIP switches however. This might be a good starting place for that 
MOTM/Blacet conspiracy that people have mentioned here in the past.

JB

In a message dated 10/24/99 5:25:33 PM, synth1@... writes:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>>  ...a pre-loadable gate/trig shift register with cascadable input and
>>output, as well as a voltage-controlled shifter clock with initial rate
>>knob.  Switches select the desired pre-loaded register states; LEDs show
>>the current output states.  Not a complete analog sequencer chain, but
>>quite good at complex trigger chains.

>Got a 1975 Blacet catalog that has this thing. Uses a DIP switch to load
>stuff in.

Re: Thoughts on gate & trigger processing modules

1999-10-25 by DAVEVOSH@xxx.xxx

In a message dated 99-10-24 20:11:26 EDT, you write:

<< 
   Being a sequencer fanatic, it is only natural that I tend to pay
 attention to ways to create gates and triggers.  I'm already tinkering
 with dividing pulses, but was interested in what folks thought about...
 
   ...a pre-loadable gate/trig shift register with cascadable input and
 output, as well as a voltage-controlled shifter clock with initial rate
 knob.  Switches select the desired pre-loaded register states; LEDs show
 the current output states.  Not a complete analog sequencer chain, but
 quite good at complex trigger chains.
 
   ...a N/M rate multipler.  Using a fast PLL, should be able to settle
 within one or two input cycles.  Would provide elusive rates like 5/3, etc
 with each output pulse evenly spaced.  Could probably voltage-control N
 and M.
  >>



scott,
this sounds like a worthwhile project. psuedo-random trigger generation would 
be very useful to me. my main things are algorithmic ( computer "algorithmic 
composition" programs drive synthesizer and process automation where i need 
several/many uncorrelated random voltages and triggers. please keep us 
informed.....
best,
dave

RE: Thoughts on gate & trigger processing modules

1999-10-25 by Tkacs, Ken

I love the multiplier idea.
Show quoted textHide quoted text
		-----Original Message-----

		  ...a N/M rate multipler.  Using a fast PLL, should be able
to settle
		within one or two input cycles.  Would provide elusive rates
like 5/3, etc
		with each output pulse evenly spaced.  Could probably
voltage-control N
		and M.

RE: Thoughts on gate & trigger processing modules

1999-10-25 by Tkacs, Ken

Yeah, what's up with that? I noticed Friday that Blacet released four new
modules, but in that blasted FracRack format, and not as kits. I was
wondering if it was worth making MOTM panels for them.


		-----Original Message-----
		This might be a good starting place for that MOTM/Blacet
conspiracy that people have mentioned here in the past.

Re: Thoughts on gate & trigger processing modules

1999-10-25 by J. Larry Hendry

OK, I am going to stick my neck out and show my "modular" ignorance again. 
Some of guys more in the know please explain to me the musical usefulness
of a multiplier and how you might apply it in your modular.

Larry (constantly amazed at the different ideas for modules that comes from
this group) Hendry
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> From: "Tkacs, Ken" <Ken.Tkacs@...>
> 
> I love the multiplier idea.
> 
> 
>	-----Original Message-----
> 
>..a N/M rate multipler.  Using a fast PLL, should be able
> to settle within one or two input cycles.  Would provide
> elusive rates like 5/3, etc with each output pulse evenly
> spaced.  Could probably voltage-control N and M.

Re: Thoughts on gate & trigger processing modules

1999-11-01 by Paul Schreiber

This is NOT for audio (well, except Barlow). It is mainly for
triggering sequencers with specific rates/patterns. It's
more of a "digital"module.

Paul S.


-----Original Message-----
From: J. Larry Hendry <jlarryh@...>
To: motm@onelist.com <motm@onelist.com>
Date: Sunday, October 31, 1999 10:17 PM
Show quoted textHide quoted text
Subject: Re: [motm] Thoughts on gate & trigger processing modules


>From: "J. Larry Hendry" <jlarryh@...>
>
>OK, I am going to stick my neck out and show my "modular" ignorance again.
>Some of guys more in the know please explain to me the musical usefulness
>of a multiplier and how you might apply it in your modular.
>
>Larry (constantly amazed at the different ideas for modules that comes from
>this group) Hendry
>
>
>> From: "Tkacs, Ken" <Ken.Tkacs@...>
>>
>> I love the multiplier idea.
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>>
>>..a N/M rate multipler.  Using a fast PLL, should be able
>> to settle within one or two input cycles.  Would provide
>> elusive rates like 5/3, etc with each output pulse evenly
>> spaced.  Could probably voltage-control N and M.
>
>>

Re: Thoughts on gate & trigger processing modules

1999-11-01 by The Old Crow

On Mon, 25 Oct 1999, J. Larry Hendry wrote:

> From: "J. Larry Hendry" <jlarryh@...>
> 
> OK, I am going to stick my neck out and show my "modular" ignorance again. 
> Some of guys more in the know please explain to me the musical usefulness
> of a multiplier and how you might apply it in your modular.

  The module I'm proposing is a "ratio multiplier/divider", often
shortened to "ratio multiplier".  The idea is this:

  You have some input rate and want to create, say, 3 output pulses for
every 5 input pulses.  A ratio multipler will take the input rate,
multiply it by 5, then divide it by 3 and present the new rate on an
output.

  The multiplication is done by a common communications circuit known as a
phase-locked loop.  This beast is essentially two things: a VCO and a
comparator.  The VCO frequency is set based on a control voltage (often
called the "error voltage") that the comparator output--passed through a
1st-order LP filter (thus allowing the rate of change to appear as a
voltage the VCO can deal with) outputs.  What the comparator is comparing
are the "edges" of the input rate/frequency with the the VCO's output.
The trick here is that the VCO output goes through a divider, the value of
which is the rate of multiplication. Once the edges line up for each input
cycle the two signals are "in-phase" and the multiplier VCO is outputting
a frequency known to be an exact multiple of the input.

  This frequency is then sent through another divider, thus creating the
ratio.

  The uses are vast in the communications world.  Using a single
"reference" input frequency of, say, 1MHz, the ratio divider can generate
any output in the range of the PLL's VCO.  All modern TVs, radios,
cellphones, etc.  uses one or more PLLs in their tuning and CRT
raster-control circuits.

  Musically, there are two primary uses: creating harmonics at intervals
higher or lower in pitch, and creating sequencer clocks.  Say you have a
quarter-note temp and need a triplet tempo for a sequencer.  Send the rate
through a ratio multiplier of 3:1 and you have your triplets.

  Interesting things can be done by running the module with loop filter
settings that aren't necessarily "ideal".  Harmonic-lag processing, for
one.

  --Crow

/**/

Re: Thoughts on gate & trigger processing modules

1999-11-01 by The Old Crow

On Sun, 31 Oct 1999, The Old Crow wrote:

>   You have some input rate and want to create, say, 3 output pulses for
> every 5 input pulses.  A ratio multipler will take the input rate,
> multiply it by 5, then divide it by 3 and present the new rate on an
> output.

  Er, I didn't pay attention here.  3 outs for 5 ins multiplies by 3 and
divides by 5.

   out = in x (M / N), above example M=3, N=5

/**/

RE: Thoughts on gate & trigger processing modules

1999-11-01 by Tkacs, Ken

It's like the sub-harmonic divider, but 'goes up instead of down,' no? You
can use a phase-locked look and divider network to theoretically create
harmonics instead of sub-harmonics, and if you then do some
sine-conditioning, create a simple sort of additive synthesis module. In
reality, there are a lot of problems to tackle, but from time to time I come
back to looking at this setup as a possibility.

		-----Original Message-----
		From:	J. Larry Hendry [mailto:jlarryh@...]
		 
		Some of guys more in the know please explain to me the
musical usefulness
		of a multiplier and how you might apply it in your modular.

RE: Thoughts on gate & trigger processing modules

1999-11-01 by The Old Crow

This reminds me--I've been tinkering around with NCO programs for a fast
microcontroller.  Input a 24-bit binary digit representing the setpoint
rate/frequency, and output a digital sine waveform (or just about any
waveform you like).  Some neat stuff can be done with these.

  Someone mentioned algorithmic composer programs/hardware.  I did this
using John (Simonton's) notes on programming the Paia P4700j's little
microcomputer to generate "filtered random" CVs and gates.  It was kind of
neat, but I didn't have enough voices at the time to make it really
interesting.

  Well, the code that drives an algorithmic "CV Keyer" will these days
easily fit into a single-chip microcontroller.  Perhaps I can propose a
future module along these lines.  The only trick is in figuring out how to
let the operator program the sucker without the dreaded "one data slider
for 275 parameters" syndrome.

  --Scott

/**/

Re: Thoughts on gate & trigger processing modules

1999-11-02 by The Old Crow

On Mon, 1 Nov 1999, J. Larry Hendry wrote:

> Scott, this is easy.  275 parameters = 275 knobs.  See...
> 
> <snicker>
> 
> Larry (wants hundreds of knobs) Hendry

  Heh heh...

  In 1987 I built what is easily my most complicated device in terms of
controls: a complete DX-7 parameter entry system.  It was built into a
portable DJ's desk upon which the DX-7 keyboard was placed.  The sloped
control-panel hutch behind the flat table area for the DX-7 held seven
panels, each about 8"x11".  Six of them were duplicates, one for each sine
"operator". The seventh held the remaining parameterss, including an
"algorithm display map" idea I stole off the DX-1.  The machine had
something like 6 x 21 + 19 = 145 knobs and about 14 switches.  There were
let's see...two LEDs and about 40 LED displays on each of the six panels,
and about 36 displays on the seventh panel.  The panels talked to the DX-7
using a star-hub MIDI "network" I sort of fudged in Z8 uC code.  One
interesting thing was that being a giant MIDI programmer, one could edit
voices on, say, a program for an old CP/M Z-80 box that faked being a
DX-7 enough to create patches.  (The program did not generate any tones;
not enough CPU horsepower).

  Powered up, the thing looked..glorious.

  I called it the "DX Patchmaster", which my college roommate thought was
a dumb name.  I sold it to the university when I left school--it may still
be there today.  I built one spare "operator" panel.  I'll take a picture
of it and splat it on the web.

  You would have to pay me $10K to build a second one. ^^

   --Crow

/**/

Re: Thoughts on gate & trigger processing modules

1999-11-02 by J. Larry Hendry

> From: The Old Crow <oldcrow@...>
>   Well, the code that drives an algorithmic "CV Keyer" will these days
> easily fit into a single-chip microcontroller.  Perhaps I can propose a
> future module along these lines.  The only trick is in figuring out how
to
> let the operator program the sucker without the dreaded "one data slider
> for 275 parameters" syndrome.
> 
>   --Scott

Scott, this is easy.  275 parameters = 275 knobs.  See...

<snicker>

Larry (wants hundreds of knobs) Hendry

Re: Thoughts on gate & trigger processing modules

1999-11-02 by DAVEVOSH@xxx.xxx

In a message dated 99-11-01 09:44:39 EST, you write:

<< Perhaps I can propose a
 future module along these line >>



scott,
i, for one, would be interested in hearing your ideas on such a device.....
best,
dave