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Confused

Confused

2003-06-21 by ringmod45

Hi John,

Everyone knows and understands your views on how music should be.
Music is all encompassing, it is different in everyone's mind and 
ears. Therefore you should be open to other people's methods and 
procedures for making music.

It's takes you months to create your music pieces. You use a multi-
tracker to make your compositions. Every time you record a track, you 
are performing it to the multi-tracker, then the next track and so on 
and so on. The multi-tracker becomes much like a sequencer.

Now if you were to perform one of compositions live, you would need a 
group of musicians or synthesists to play all of the different voices 
in your compositions. I'm sure this would be a huge endeavour, you 
would have to score each part then rehearse it to a point where it's 
presentable to an audience.

In the case of R.R. ,I am pretty sure, he composes his pieces part by 
part, and throws in a little improvisation and chance elements in to 
the mix. Now he probably doesn't have the budget or the time to bring 
every part or voice of his compositions as a separate musician with 
him on tour. So the next best thing for him is to bring the sequencer 
out with him live and have the the voices there for him to manipulate 
or improvise with. In a certain sense, he becomes both the conductor 
and performer. 

So he controls the sequencer and the voices as he pleases, much like 
a conductors controls the different voices in an orchestra, i.e. the 
tempo, the level of the instruments etc. 

The knob twiddling is just part of the performance on top of the live 
instrument performing. 

I have done a couple of shows were a friend and I brought a mixture 
of step sequencers ( MAQ 16/3's) and linear sequencers ( MMT8 and 
MPC ) with a variety of analogue gear and drum machines. All of the 
sequencers were blank , we had them in sync with each other. So it 
was basically, press start and build it up note by note and voice by 
voice and play on top of the sequences.

We each had a mixer, so we could hear what we composing on the fly 
and then bring into it the main mix as we chose. It was a two way 
improvised set of music. Would this be knob twiddling or performing?

Sure there was mistakes, but there were plenty of happy accidents and 
interactions upon listening to the show afterwards, that would not 
have happened in a studio context.

Your taste for structured compositons makes it hard to accept all the 
elements of live EM music. I would recommend you go see Robert Rich 
or The Orb in a live setting and get a glow happening and absorb the 
vibe. Keep an open mind, you may like it or totally hate it. 

Not making trouble, just trying to present a different view.

Best,
RM


mikes wrote:

>I think it's pretty interesting to watch someone modify a large 
complicated modular synth in realtime to generate new and interesting 
sounds.<

But that's not performing; that's twiddling.

I honestly don't mean any disrespect to RR--I just don't get it. Can 
you imagine somebody actually *writing* and performing 80 minutes of 
music? It would be a monumental task--like Bach's B Minor Mass or 
something. Why would people travel long distances to hear a sequencer 
go chugga-chugga-thump-thump with a twiddle here and there? 

I love the recording quality of "Bestiary" (it is so clean you can 
eat off of it) but where's the structure? I just hear a lot of 
amorphous sound effects and droning--and that quickly grows tiresome.

Did Subotnick et al. raise the bar too high too early on? I'm 
begining to wonder.

johnm (not making trouble--genuinely confused)

Re: Confused

2003-06-21 by osthelder

Hey all!

IMHO-if you deliberately make a sound and present it to others, you
are a musician.  Period.  Others may despise you for having made that
noise in their presence.  Still others will gripe that you shouldn't
make a living by making that sound in front of an audience or on any
recorded media.  Many more will stand on the sidelines with their arms
crossed and tell anyone within earshot that they could have made that
sound better!

To be fair, it should be known that my tastes in music are, uh,
eclectic.  My small CD collection includes Bob Wills and his Texas
Playboys (I LOVE pre-war western swing!  One of the main ingredients
that produced rock and roll.)Zappa, Mike Marsh, Dick Dale, Helmet,
Robert Rich, Mahavishnu, Bartok's Quartets, Richard Feinman's Quantum
Physics lectures (there's something you can lay down and watch the
room grow dark to...)and many other oddities.  If someone plays a
techno-pop piece for me, however, I will truly listen!  Spend some
time at the websites of Dave Trenkle or Inform3r's Hong Kong
Counterfeit!  Jurgen Haible's site is a real treat too!  I'm probably
not going to own a copy of The Treblemaker's latest, but I'll sure as
hell give it a proper listen.  Afterwards, I'll keep my gob shut if it
doesn't appeal to me!  Honestly, I'm still humming bits of it...

Carlos Santana (not my favorite guitarist...)once said, "...God made
the world round so we can ALL have center stage".

No confusion here.

Chub-LIVR

Re: Confused

2003-06-21 by konkuro

Ringmod wrote:

>Every time you record a track, you 
are performing it to the multi-tracker, then the next track and so on 
and so on. The multi-tracker becomes much like a sequencer.<

Not exactly. A sequencer controls the synthesizer; a multi-tracker 
simply records. 

>Now if you were to perform one of compositions live, you would needa 
group of musicians or synthesists to play all of the different voices 
in your compositions. I'm sure this would be a huge endeavour, you 
would have to score each part then rehearse it to a point where it's 
presentable to an audience.<

I wouldn't see the point of performing my compositions live--they are 
supposed to be heard (inflicted?) in their recorded form. To play 
them live would simply be a recital.

>Your taste for structured compositons makes it hard to accept all 
the elements of live EM music. I would recommend you go see Robert 
Rich or The Orb in a live setting and get a glow happening and absorb 
the vibe. Keep an open mind, you may like it or totally hate it.<

It might amuse you to know that I did a live EM performance including 
soprano, tape, and slinky spring reverb as a high school project in 
1972. Some of the teachers hated it, but I got an A.  :-)  About 
three years later, I "performed" at an experimental art expo using 
home-built sequencers and modules (RTL ICs!). The audience dug it, 
but I'm sure half of them were high.

And there are records in my collection that would make Yoko Ono sound 
tame...

Mind you, I'm by no means anti-sequencer.  I just abhore the way they 
are generally used. Sequencers are great for switching multiple 
parameters quickly. When used as a keyboard substitute, they should 
be applied sparingly--as with certain spices. Great for a blip here 
or a run there, but robotic and uninteresting as too often heard 
today.

Speaking of sequencers, the new MOTM sequencer looks extremely 
interesting, but hard to convert to a .com format.

>Not making trouble, just trying to present a different view.<

It was a very interesting post!  Thanks.

johnm

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