MOTM

I can't seem to find much in the way of small CV keyboards that 
are affordable.

I've been thinking of building a PAIA midi2cv8 into my Novation 
MM-10X keyboard and using that as a dedicated modulary 
synthesizer controller.

Any thoughts out there for something small and affordable?  
Monophonic is fine with me (for now).

Thanks!

Ivan

In a message dated 6/15/2003 9:05:31 AM Pacific Daylight Time, ivancu@... 
writes:

> I can't seem to find much in the way of small CV keyboards that 
> are affordable.
> 
> I've been thinking of building a PAIA midi2cv8 into my Novation 
> MM-10X keyboard and using that as a dedicated modulary 
> synthesizer controller.
> 
> Any thoughts out there for something small and affordable?  
> Monophonic is fine with me (for now).


I haven't seen a reply to this so I'll just throw out my two cents.

The only CV keyboards I've heard about recently are the synthesizers.com (is 
that the name of the company?) for like $500. And I'm sure you remember the 
Roland CV keyboards that showed up at some shop in NYC about two years ago (and 
disappeared in the blink of an eye).

You also might want to check this out:

<A HREF="http://sales.goldmine-elec.com/prodinfo.asp?prodid=8280">http://sales.goldmine-elec.com/prodinfo.asp?prodid=8280</A>


This was posted on synth diy about a week ago. I've been thinking of getting 
one (as if I need another project). There would still be some work to make a 
voltage source for the keys and you'd have to install a resistor per key (and 
stuff like this never turns out to be easy). You could easily make this 
keyboard far more accurate then the Moog and ARP (and all the other CV keyboards) in 
their day since it would be easier to match the resistors, or you could ($$$) 
use 0.1% resistors. You'd probably also want to add some sort of bender/mod 
wheel -- I have no idea where you'd get something like this except from a 
thriftshop Casio or some such thing.

I have a PAiA midi2cv8 and it works OK. I believe Tony A. posted a bunch of 
mods to make it a bit better. I figure I can use it for non-critical voltage 
sources or gates. I also have a couple of unfinished Oakley Midi 2 CV PCBs which 
looked like a good idea when I got them, though some of the parts are rather 
expensive (as one would expect for a high quality convertor).

Of course, right after I got the Oakley Midi to CV PCBs, Paul announced the 
MOTM Midi CV convertor. So obviously that's my final (and best) suggestion. I'd 
use a basic MIDI keyboard patched into the MOTM MIDI convertor -- save 
yourself the hassle. I know this was originally supposed to ship last month, but I 
imagine it's getting pretty close by now.

Good luck!
JB

> You also might want to check this out:

> http://sales.goldmine-elec.com/prodinfo.asp?prodid=8280

Probably out of Technics electronic organs.
Very nice keyboard action.

Jay

:: The only CV keyboards I've heard about recently are the
:: synthesizers.com (is that the name of the company?) for
:: like $500.


Keep in mind that the Synth.com keyboard is not a *true* CV keyboard. It is
a MIDI keyboard with built-in MIDI-CV conversion.  While it's very good for
the value (I have one...) there are limitations.

1. No left-hand performance controls of any kind.

2. Limited range - even running MIDI into it, you can't pitch bend ABOVE the
top note on the keyboard, or pitch-bend BEFORE the bottom note on the
keyboard.

Other that this, it's a great unit. However, if I had done a little more
research myself, I would have ended up with a small MIDI controller and a
separate MIDI/CV box...

Les

--- In motm@yahoogroups.com, "Les Mizzell" <lesmizz@s...> wrote:
> :: The only CV keyboards I've heard about recently are the
> :: synthesizers.com (is that the name of the company?) for
> :: like $500.
> 

Doepfer announced a CV keyboard that looked interesting a while back -
 but I don't know if it is shipping yet. It had CV output for every 
key, in addition to outputs for the entire keyboard. 

Analogue Systems makes a keyboard they call the French Connection 
that is inspired by the Ondes Martenot. This is a really unique 
controller - SOS magazine covered it about a year ago. Under the keys 
there is a special pitch control wire that allows continuous slides. 
They also have a combination midi/cv keyboard called the Demon. These 
are both high-dollar options.

I'm using a Sequential Circuits Pro-One. This has gate & pitch CV 
outputs, so it hooks right in. They're available for $400-500, so 
they are a viable option, with the bonus of an awesome monosynth. No 
touch sensitivity & crummy keyboard, though.

One off-the wall alternative is a Novation BassStation Rack Module. 
This is a modern clone of the Roland TB303 BassLine synth. It does a 
great job of getting techno sounds. The thing that sold me on it is 
that it has CV & gate outputs. This lets you control the BassStation 
on one MIDI channel, and use another MIDI channel to control the CV & 
gate outputs. These show up used on Ebay fairly frequently. I paid 
about $200, which is great a combination of an analog synth module 
plus a basic MIDI-CV converter.

--- In motm@yahoogroups.com, "elle_webb" <elle_webb@h...> wrote:

> Doepfer announced a CV keyboard that looked interesting a while back -
>  but I don't know if it is shipping yet. It had CV output for every 
> key, in addition to outputs for the entire keyboard. 

Wow, lucky they are not utilizing Switchcraft 112A  ;-)))

>I'm using a Sequential Circuits Pro-One. This has gate & pitch CV
>outputs, so it hooks right in. They're available for $400-500, so
>they are a viable option, with the bonus of an awesome monosynth. No
>touch sensitivity & crummy keyboard, though.
>

I sometimes try to use my Pro-One to control my MOTM. But as 
mentioned above, the keyboard is quite crummy, and I usually give up 
after a few minutes. The key mechanism needs constant maintenance to 
repair dead keys.

On 6/15/03, Les Mizzell put forth:
>:: The only CV keyboards I've heard about recently are the
>:: synthesizers.com (is that the name of the company?) for
>:: like $500.
>
>
>Keep in mind that the Synth.com keyboard is not a *true* CV keyboard. It is
>a MIDI keyboard with built-in MIDI-CV conversion.  While it's very good for
>the value (I have one...) there are limitations.
>
>1. No left-hand performance controls of any kind.

I use a Prophecy, which has an excellent left hand section, with a 
Pro 4.  You can wire up an adapter to convert the 6-pn DIN in the 
back, or buy the Korg pedal built for it, to switch portamento, 
sustain, etc.

I'm not a big fan of MIDI keyboards that aren't synths, there a ton 
of them on the market -- from cheap little gizmos like the Oxygen 8 
to 88-key full-weighted keyboards.  Some of them have USB in addition 
to MIDI.

What I would love to see is a USB or Firewire CV-converter that 
avoids the limitations of MIDI.

--- In motm@yahoogroups.com, "tontaub" <egroups@a...> wrote:
> --- In motm@yahoogroups.com, "elle_webb" <elle_webb@h...> wrote:
> 
> > Doepfer announced a CV keyboard that looked interesting a while 
back -
> >  It had CV output for every key. 
> 
> Wow, lucky they are not utilizing Switchcraft 112A  ;-)))

Yeah!

Can you imagine all the weird stuff you could do with that keyboard?

It and the Analogue Systems controllers seem to be targeted for 
people trying to stay completely in CV's. You pay more to 
stay in CV's...but when you're spending thousands on a CV system, a 
CV controller is worth considering.

I like using a CV keyboard - it gives me CV outs and CV ins, 
which gives you a lot of room to explore. For lead-type lines & for 
experimenting, CV controllers offer a lot of benefits.

If you're not into that, a MIDI-CV converter with a Casio gives you 
more bang for the buck!

On Monday 16 June 2003 03:30, Scott Juskiw wrote:
> I sometimes try to use my Pro-One to control my MOTM. But
> as mentioned above, the keyboard is quite crummy, and I
> usually give up after a few minutes. The key mechanism
> needs constant maintenance to repair dead keys.

Why not use a MIDI keyboard with a MIDI->CV converter? 
Thaty's what I had planned, anyway. Will a vintage/original 
CV keyboard do a better job?

- Robert

--- In motm@yahoogroups.com, Scott Juskiw <scott@t...> wrote:
> I sometimes try to use my Pro-One to control my MOTM. But as 
> mentioned above, the keyboard is quite crummy, and I usually give
>up after a few minutes. The key mechanism needs constant maintenance
>to repair dead keys.

I had a similar problem. Mine was getting keys that wouldn't trigger, 
or that would double-trigger. 

The problem was corrosion & deposits on the trigger wires. I was able 
to fix the problem using a contact cleaner pen (a few bucks at Radio 
Shack). Carefully rubbing the tip against the top and bottom of the 
trigger wires took the goo off.

There are a couple of other features on the Pro-one that I find
handy in a modular contect. The glide is applied to the CV out, which 
handles my needs. The 40-step sequencer and the arpeggiator work fine 
for electronica synth patterns. You can control pitch and filter
cutoff with external CV's, so the MOTM can assimilate it. Finally,
the Audio In can be used as a envelope detector/gate generator. 
Sequential threw in a lot of quirky features that would be expensive 
to duplicate new.

The keyboard IS still crummy, though! It's too bad that there's not 
much of a market for interesting new CV controllers!

--- In motm@yahoogroups.com, Robert van der Kamp <robnet@w...> wrote:

> Why not use a MIDI keyboard with a MIDI->CV converter? 
> Thaty's what I had planned, anyway. Will a vintage/original 
> CV keyboard do a better job?
> 
For a lot of stuff, even a inexpensive MIDI keyboard with a MIDI->CV 
converter will do a great job.

In some situations, though, you may find benefits to staying in the
CV world. I like CV for monophonic lines. CV pitch bends and 
glissando, for example, sound better to my ears. This is subjective!

A vintage keyboard may have other features, such as an arpeggiator, a 
sequencer, or other controllers that you may find useful, depending
on the type of music that you do. Some of the better old keyboards can
be obsorbed into your modular, because they have both cv ins and
outs, 
and they provide a lot of sound generating bang for the buck. Some 
tasks are quicker with CV, too, because you just start patching
jacks. 

So no, a vintage keyboard isn't a better controller, but they can be 
better for different things.

At 6:08 PM +0200 2003/06/16, Robert van der Kamp wrote:
>Why not use a MIDI keyboard with a MIDI->CV converter?
>Thaty's what I had planned, anyway. Will a vintage/original
>CV keyboard do a better job?

I will probably do that once I get a MOTM-650 in my grubby hands. I 
just wanted to point out that a Pro-One is a nice synth, just not a 
great CV controller.

> Doepfer announced a CV keyboard that looked interesting a while back -
>  but I don't know if it is shipping yet. It had CV output for every
> key, in addition to outputs for the entire keyboard.
>

I don't have a keyboard or MIDI equipment.  I am not a keyboard player, but
I would like to have more manual controls over the synth.  The Doepfer
proposed keyboard is not shipping yet, but does look very interesting.

http://www.doepfer.de/a100tkb.htm


-Richard

hello all,

> One of the things that's wrong with the more "vintage" keyboards is that
they
> used a three buss system (one for gate, one for trigger, and one for the
CV).
> These take a certain (minor adjustment in) technique to play since the "J"
etc...

so might this explain the difference in feel to a Roland 181 (gate &
trigger) and a Roland 184 (gate only)..?
i'm used to my 181 but my 184 mis-fires sometimes which feels like it's me
causing it (i am not a keyboard player...)



cheers
paul b
sheffield
uk

>hello all,
>
>> One of the things that's wrong with the more "vintage" keyboards is that
>they
>> used a three buss system (one for gate, one for trigger, and one for the
>CV).
>> These take a certain (minor adjustment in) technique to play since the "J"
>etc...
>
>so might this explain the difference in feel to a Roland 181 (gate &
>trigger) and a Roland 184 (gate only)..?
>i'm used to my 181 but my 184 mis-fires sometimes which feels like it's me
>causing it (i am not a keyboard player...)

The 181 only uses 2 busses internally.

Ken
_______________________________________________________________________
Ken Stone   sasami@...  
Modular Synth PCBs for sale <http://www.blaze.net.au/~sasami/synth/>
Australian Miniature Horses & Ponies <http://www.blaze.net.au/~sasami/>

Has anybody tried this one? It looks like it might be a nice match with a small 
midi controller for monophony.

http://www.philrees.co.uk/products/miditocv.htm

Barry

--- In motm@yahoogroups.com, Robert van der Kamp <robnet@w...> wrote:

> On Monday 16 June 2003 03:30, Scott Juskiw wrote:
> > I sometimes try to use my Pro-One to control my MOTM. But
> > as mentioned above, the keyboard is quite crummy, and I
> > usually give up after a few minutes. The key mechanism
> > needs constant maintenance to repair dead keys.
> 
> Why not use a MIDI keyboard with a MIDI->CV converter? 
> Thaty's what I had planned, anyway. Will a vintage/original 
> CV keyboard do a better job?
> 
> - Robert