MOTM

MPJA has those 6A 5 VDC linear power supplies on sale again for $2.95 for
those thinking of adding one onto your +/- 15 supply for upcoming 500/600
series stuff.

Can we have some comments from some of the guys that bought these last time?
What brand?
What kind of regulator?
NOS or used?  It does not say.
Important!  Date code ??

http://www.mpja.com/allpictspl.asp?dept=287&product=13357+PS

Stooge Larry

That is why I was wondering.  I bought some +/- 15 V 1500ma marked 1993 for
$15 which was a decent deal.  I ordered 2 +/-15 volt 5000ma with a date code
of 1998 for $24.95 each.

So, I think results may vary.  Some of you that have bought???
Larry

----- Original Message -----
From: Paul Schreiber <synth1@...>
All I can say is: I bought a Power One from them maybe 2 years ago: it had a
1983 date code!

Paul S.

----- Original Message -----
From: "J. Larry Hendry" <jlarryh@...>
To: "MOTM List" <motm@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2003 8:54 PM
Subject: [motm] power supply deal ?


> MPJA has those 6A 5 VDC linear power supplies on sale again for $2.95 for
> those thinking of adding one onto your +/- 15 supply for upcoming 500/600
> series stuff.
>
> Can we have some comments from some of the guys that bought these last
time?

> What brand?
> What kind of regulator?
> NOS or used?  It does not say.
> Important!  Date code ??
>
> http://www.mpja.com/allpictspl.asp?dept=287&product=13357+PS
>
> Stooge Larry
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

At 10:46 PM -0500 4/15/03, J. Larry Hendry wrote:
>That is why I was wondering.  I bought some +/- 15 V 1500ma marked 1993 for
>$15 which was a decent deal.  I ordered 2 +/-15 volt 5000ma with a date code
>of 1998 for $24.95 each.
>
>So, I think results may vary.  Some of you that have bought???

Just don't buy anything from RS Electronics.  Those people are *ssholes!!

Has anyone found a deal on a big triple supply??

I'm thinking of buying a Power One HCBB-75W-A (+/-15V@1.5A, 5V@6A, 
$115)  I know Paul recommends a Power One model CP131-A (which is 
what he supposed used at NAMM), but the only difference in the 
Digikey catalog (besides $15 in price) is 2A more at 5V.  Even if 
each 500/600 module drew 500ma, 6A is enough power for twelve 
modules!!  So what's the advantage of the CP131 over the HCBB-75??

To get more power at 15V, the next step up is the HDCC-150W-A 
(+/-15V@3A, 5V@12A, $170), which seems like overkill.  At most my 
system will have about 45 modules (1500/45 = 33ma, which seems about 
average).  Any thoughts??

I'll buy the bigger one if I need it.

I've seen some CP131A's on evilbay 'new-in-box' for cheap.  Worth it?  Hmmm...
Need to beware of date codes since those $$$ Mallorys might need replaced
(especially if 'new-in-box').  In my opinion, too much 5V and not enough 15V,
even if it works.  (Boy, wouldn't it be bliss to have enough 500/600 modules
for 8A of current draw!?!)

I've gone two separate supplies route:
HCC15-3-A: +-15V@3A (got off evilbay for $25)
HC5-6/OVP-A: +5V@6A (still looking..)

Anyone find any deals on the HC5-6/OVP-A ?

George
----- Original Message -----

From: <media.nai@...>
To: <motm@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, April 18, 2003 2:55 PM
Subject: Re: [motm] power supply deal ?


> At 10:46 PM -0500 4/15/03, J. Larry Hendry wrote:
> >That is why I was wondering.  I bought some +/- 15 V 1500ma marked 1993 for
> >$15 which was a decent deal.  I ordered 2 +/-15 volt 5000ma with a date code
> >of 1998 for $24.95 each.
> >
> >So, I think results may vary.  Some of you that have bought???
>
> Just don't buy anything from RS Electronics.  Those people are *ssholes!!
>
> Has anyone found a deal on a big triple supply??
>
> I'm thinking of buying a Power One HCBB-75W-A (+/-15V@1.5A, 5V@6A,
> $115)  I know Paul recommends a Power One model CP131-A (which is
> what he supposed used at NAMM), but the only difference in the
> Digikey catalog (besides $15 in price) is 2A more at 5V.  Even if
> each 500/600 module drew 500ma, 6A is enough power for twelve
> modules!!  So what's the advantage of the CP131 over the HCBB-75??
>
> To get more power at 15V, the next step up is the HDCC-150W-A
> (+/-15V@3A, 5V@12A, $170), which seems like overkill.  At most my
> system will have about 45 modules (1500/45 = 33ma, which seems about
> average).  Any thoughts??
>
> I'll buy the bigger one if I need it.

>  So what's the advantage of the CP131 over the HCBB-75??

Allied stocks them, and they are 1 mile from my house.

>
> To get more power at 15V, the next step up is the HDCC-150W-A
> (+/-15V@3A, 5V@12A, $170), which seems like overkill.  At most my
> system will have about 45 modules (1500/45 = 33ma, which seems about
> average).  Any thoughts??

Remember, you DO NOT want to get anywhere near the upper limit of these supplies. The heat gets
to be too great if you get within say 90% of the rated output. Plus, that rating is for "average
AC input", not high line (in the US, the AC wall voltage can vary from 90VAC to about 132VAC).

80% of the stated current is the upper limit you should draw.

Paul S.

At 3:45 PM -0400 4/18/03, <groovyshaman@...> wrote:
>
>I've seen some CP131A's on evilbay 'new-in-box' for cheap.  Worth it?  Hmmm...
>Need to beware of date codes since those $$$ Mallorys might need replaced
>(especially if 'new-in-box').  In my opinion, too much 5V and not enough 15V,
>even if it works.  (Boy, wouldn't it be bliss to have enough 500/600 modules
>for 8A of current draw!?!)

Well, it looks like I might have 12A of 5V!!  Still, I don't want to
buy it from Egads.  Power supplies are nothing to monkey around with.

>I've gone two separate supplies route:
>HCC15-3-A: +-15V@3A (got off evilbay for $25)
>HC5-6/OVP-A: +5V@6A (still looking..)

Since I'll have to replace current supply for +/-15 anyway, I might
as well buy a triple supply.

At 2:53 PM -0500 4/18/03, Paul Schreiber wrote:
>
>>   So what's the advantage of the CP131 over the HCBB-75??
>
>Allied stocks them, and they are 1 mile from my house.

I didn't think anything in Texas was that close together :)

>  > To get more power at 15V, the next step up is the HDCC-150W-A
>>  (+/-15V@3A, 5V@12A, $170), which seems like overkill.  At most my
>>  system will have about 45 modules (1500/45 = 33ma, which seems about
>>  average).  Any thoughts??
>
>Remember, you DO NOT want to get anywhere near the upper limit of 
>these supplies. The heat gets
>to be too great if you get within say 90% of the rated output. Plus, 
>that rating is for "average
>AC input", not high line (in the US, the AC wall voltage can vary 
>from 90VAC to about 132VAC).
>
>80% of the stated current is the upper limit you should draw.

So I guess that's the HDCC-150W-A.  Which is one big ass honking 
power supply -- it takes a 3U case!!

I just bought the Condor HCBB75W-A+  (5V@6A, +/-15V@1.5A) ) a couple of 
weeks ago. It actually gets warm to the touch with my 28 module system. Now 
I'm wondering if I should've gone for the HDCC-150W-A.

 Oh well...At least for now I'm 500/600 series compliant. ;)

 Andrew


In a message dated 4/18/03 4:05:26 PM Central Daylight Time, 
media.nai@... writes:

>  At 2:53 PM -0500 4/18/03, Paul Schreiber wrote:
>  >
>  >>   So what's the advantage of the CP131 over the HCBB-75??
>  >
>  >Allied stocks them, and they are 1 mile from my house.
>  
>  I didn't think anything in Texas was that close together :)
>  
>  >  > To get more power at 15V, the next step up is the HDCC-150W-A
>  >>  (+/-15V@3A, 5V@12A, $170), which seems like overkill.  At most my
>  >>  system will have about 45 modules (1500/45 = 33ma, which seems about
>  >>  average).  Any thoughts??
>  >
>  >Remember, you DO NOT want to get anywhere near the upper limit of 
>  >these supplies. The heat gets
>  >to be too great if you get within say 90% of the rated output. Plus, 
>  >that rating is for "average
>  >AC input", not high line (in the US, the AC wall voltage can vary 
>  >from 90VAC to about 132VAC).
>  >
>  >80% of the stated current is the upper limit you should draw.
>  
>  So I guess that's the HDCC-150W-A.  Which is one big ass honking 
>  power supply -- it takes a 3U case!!
>

Legally, AC voltage in the US can vary from 114 to 126 volts.  Anything
outside those limits should be complained about.
LH

----- Original Message -----
From: Paul Schreiber <synth1@...>
Plus, that rating is for "average AC input", not high line (in the US, the
AC wall voltage can vary from 90VAC to about 132VAC).

OK, I'll speak up since I was mentioned by association. :)  I see two
problems with a current meter for DC as I see only 2 ways to make it happen.

1. shunt resistor, and measure the voltage across the shunt, calibrate meter
to that.  Yes, it works, voltage drop does increase with load.  I suppose
the remote sense on the power supply (if equipped) could be connected past
the shunt.

2. expensive DC clamp arounds. These are more expensive than their AC
counterparts.

And, since current draw is a somewhat static thing once modules are in
place, what makes more sense to me is to make a small spreadsheet as some
have done to monitor their power supply loading.  I can't see losing any
panel space for it.

Translation:  Don't look for anything from Stooge-land anytime soon.

At 5:52 PM -0400 4/18/03, ixqy@... wrote:
>  I just bought the Condor HCBB75W-A+  (5V@6A, +/-15V@1.5A) ) a couple of
>weeks ago. It actually gets warm to the touch with my 28 module system. Now
>I'm wondering if I should've gone for the HDCC-150W-A.
>
>  Oh well...At least for now I'm 500/600 series compliant. ;)

If I bought 12A worth of 500/600 modules I'd be food stamp compliant.

So it looks like I'll need a HDCC-150W-A.  Anyone know where I can 
buy one for less than $170??

Sweetwater looks like the best place to buy a 3U rack case:
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/EC3/

Then I havve to come up with connectors that can handle power cables 
of a suitable guage, and cable I can buy by the foot.

Might I suggest the Neutrik Speak-on.  I use them.  They accept big wire no
problem. They come with 4 connections standard.  They twist lock which is
cool.  Right now I am using readily available 12/3 wire since I have no need
for the 4th wire for 5 volt.  12/4 or similar will be a little more
difficult to find by the foot in a flexible stranded wire.
Larry H

----- Original Message -----
From: <media.nai@...>
Then I havve to come up with connectors that can handle power cables
of a suitable guage, and cable I can buy by the foot.

At 3:35 PM -0500 4/19/03, J. Larry Hendry wrote:
>
>Might I suggest the Neutrik Speak-on.

Certainly :)

>I use them.  They accept big wire no problem.

The way I look at it, they don't actually accept any size wire --
they accept spade terminals.  The "disconnect" (stupid name alert)
accepts the wire.  Pretty much everything inside a cabinet is
connected with fastons.  The Mouser catalog does list chassis-mount
speakons with screw terminals, but I've never seen those in nature.

>They come with 4 connections standard.

(Like "standard" XLR is 3-pin)

>They twist lock which is cool.

Absolutely :) People used to use those locking AC sockets before
speakons were on the market.

>Right now I am using readily available 12/3 wire since I have no need
>for the 4th wire for 5 volt.  12/4 or similar will be a little more
>difficult to find by the foot in a flexible stranded wire.

The way I figure it, I'll only need four conductors for one case.
There are ten 6-pin headers on the MOTM-990, and only three modules
that take 5V on the order form (and I already have a MIDI-->CV).  So
I seriously doubt that I'll ever have to hook up a second 990 or put
500/600 put in more than one case.  I have a big spool of red 10AWG
stranded I use for cars.  I was thinking of using that for 5V and
using wire ties or pieces of heat shrink to attach it to the 12/3
cable.

My plan is to get two 21U cases, so I have room for 20U of modules,
and 1U to run a power cable through the front on the second case.
Why??  MOTM is very front-heavy as most of the weight is in the front
panels.  So if I leave the backs on the cases while in use, they will
be less likely to tip over.

I'll put one speakon on the front of the PS, and another speakon on the back
of the PS, and wire them in parallel inside.  The rack case with the PS
will also hold all the modules requiring 5V, and the wiring for that
will be in back, inside the case.  Now, in order to make this work,
I'll need to put the AC connector on the front of the PS.  Speakons
are round so I can use a hole saw.  Otoh, EIC receptacles ("power
inlets") are rectangular or some odd shape.  Has anyone cut a hole
for one those things??

Also, if I connect a 900-PCB to a 990 (which only has six 4-pin
headers) inside the first case, which way should the 990 go??
Do the caps go between the two boards??


On an Easter note, have you ever noticed a similarity between Paul
the Apostle (St. Paul) and Paul from Synthesis Technology (ST Paul)??
Think about it.  They both tell us to be patient for something great
that is coming, and can't tell us when it will show up.  The plans
for the Second Coming have already been announced.  It's just that the
parts are on backorder :)


--
"Some skeptic is sure to ask, 'Show me how resurrection works.
    Give me a diagram; draw me a schematic.'"
                               -- 1 Corinthians 15:35

> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <media.nai@...>
> The way I look at it, they don't actually accept any size wire -- they
accept spade terminals.

Well, I was referring to the end that goes on the wire :)

> The Mouser catalog does list chassis-mount speakons with screw terminals,
but I've never seen those in nature.

I have one right here.  I much prefer the one with the screw terminals;  The
push-on-lug style uses the smaller harder to find terminals and not the
standard 0.25 inch terminals.

> (Like "standard" XLR is 3-pin)

OK, Speak-ons do come in a variety including an AC power version with
heavier contacts.  I used the standard 4 conductor as it has plenty of metal
for the current in MOTM DC.

> Speakons are round so I can use a hole saw.

I can address a little experience here too.  The hole size on all the 4 pole
speak on's is the same.  But, the barrell size is 0.93 inches. So, a perfect
US hole size would be 15/16" drill size.  Now, I own a fair amount of drill
bits.  Once you get above 5/8" they seem to come in 1/8" increments instead
of 1/16".  So while I have been able to find 9/16, I have been unable to
locate 11/16, 13/16, or 15/16 inches to fill in the gaps in my dill
collection.

The point of this is that some of use may be foreced to drill a 1" hole.
The size of the eschusion and mounting hole pattern makes the 1" hole very
close to too big.  However, the Speak on connectors that have the round
flange, have ample room to allow for drilling of a one inch hole.

Larry

At 4:22 PM -0500 4/20/03, J. Larry Hendry wrote:
>
>Well, I was referring to the end that goes on the wire :)

Oh yeah :)  The females have "screw terminals", to solder.

>  > The Mouser catalog does list chassis-mount speakons with screw terminals,
>  >but I've never seen those in nature.
>
>I have one right here.  I much prefer the one with the screw terminals;  The
>push-on-lug style uses the smaller harder to find terminals and not the
>standard 0.25 inch terminals.

Yes, many speakons use .187, but some use .250.  Mouser sells
NL4MP-UC which uses .250 -- and at this point, that's what I'm thinking of
getting.

>OK, Speak-ons do come in a variety including an AC power version with
>heavier contacts.

They're selling speakons as AC connectors?!  That's brilliant :/
Please don't tell me I have to fly to Liechtenstein just to kick
somebody's ass ;)

>I used the standard 4 conductor as it has plenty of metal
>for the current in MOTM DC.

I agree.

>  > Speakons are round so I can use a hole saw.
>
>I can address a little experience here too.  The hole size on all the 4 pole
>speak on's is the same.  But, the barrell size is 0.93 inches. So, a perfect
>US hole size would be 15/16" drill size.  Now, I own a fair amount of drill
>bits.  Once you get above 5/8" they seem to come in 1/8" increments instead
>of 1/16".  So while I have been able to find 9/16, I have been unable to
>locate 11/16, 13/16, or 15/16 inches to fill in the gaps in my dill
>collection.

Thanks for the heads up.  Milwaukee, Dewalt, etc. make 15/16 hole
saws, although it is an odd size.  You can also get a 15/16" auger
for wood.  Then again using a 7/8" and a file wouldn't be too
difficult -- especially if the case is aluminum.  I'm much more
concerned with trying to make rectangular holes for the AC connector.

>The point of this is that some of use may be foreced to drill a 1" hole.
>The size of the eschusion and mounting hole pattern makes the 1" hole very
>close to too big.  However, the Speak on connectors that have the round
>flange, have ample room to allow for drilling of a one inch hole.

I think the large round speakons would be a good choice for the back
of a cabinet, but just like "regular" speakons can handle enough
juice for MOTM DC, the round speakons seem kind of large to me for
mounting to a metal box like an amp or power supply.  Otoh, this is
imho as Neutrik is now marketing more rugged "touring" versions of
their speakon connectors.



--
"All the building fitly framed together groweth unto a holy temple"
                                          --Ephesians 2:21

Even though I have a 320 (it was my first module :) and have three 
300's on order, I'm thinking I could use another LFO.  One way of 
looking at it that a 380 and a 390 give you six LFO's in the space 
one one 320.  Another way of looking at it is that neither of those 
six LFO's are all that impressive :)

Although I never tried the 390, even with a second LFO it seems kind 
of half-assed compared to the kick-ass 320.  The 310 is another 
option.  The website says it goes down to <O.05Hz.  The downside is 
that it's not intended as an LFO -- it doesn't have an LED, or output 
sine or triangle waves.

The 380 might be an option.  While it doesn't have LED's or FM 
inputs, it has the summing feature.  Are there any 380 demos??  I 
think it would be easier to make a decision, if I had a better idea 
what the summed output did.

The 320, 280, and 390 all have their own niche, and all are useful. I 
have all three in my system.

> Although I never tried the 390, even with a second LFO it seems 
> kind of half-assed compared to the kick-ass 320.  

Don't sell the 390 short. With it, you can get 4 LFOs in the space of 
a single 320. Two of those have VC, and all have LEDs (essential in 
an LFO, IMO ). Makes a great companion to the 320 - it's a waste to 
use an entire 320 as a gate generator.
 
> The 380 might be an option.  While it doesn't have LED's or FM 
> inputs, it has the summing feature.  Are there any 380 demos??  I 
> think it would be easier to make a decision, if I had a better idea 
> what the summed output did.

I don't often use the individual outputs of the 380 as separate LFOs, 
but mostly use the summed output. It's the same effect you could get 
by running any 4 LFOs into a mixer. I find it most useful to have the 
lfos running at different speeds between 2 Hz and .25 Hz, just subtly 
giving a pitch waver to VCOs without sounding mechanical.

Moe

>The 320, 280, and 390 all have their own niche, and all are useful. I
>have all three in my system.

Moe, you have everything in your system :)

>  > Although I never tried the 390, even with a second LFO it seems
>  > kind of half-assed compared to the kick-ass 320.
>
>Don't sell the 390 short. With it, you can get 4 LFOs in the space of
>a single 320. Two of those have VC, and all have LEDs (essential in
>an LFO, IMO ). Makes a great companion to the 320 - it's a waste to
>use an entire 320 as a gate generator.

That is true, although I tend you use external clocks for sync
purposes.  Is it stable??  Is it temperature compensated??

>  > The 380 might be an option.  While it doesn't have LED's or FM
>  > inputs, it has the summing feature.  Are there any 380 demos??  I
>  > think it would be easier to make a decision, if I had a better idea
>  > what the summed output did.
>
>I don't often use the individual outputs of the 380 as separate LFOs,
>but mostly use the summed output. It's the same effect you could get
>by running any 4 LFOs into a mixer. I find it most useful to have the
>lfos running at different speeds between 2 Hz and .25 Hz, just subtly
>giving a pitch waver to VCOs without sounding mechanical.

I'd try that but I don't have four LFO's or a DC mixer with four
inputs :)  As far as a varying waver goes, does it create an effect
noticeably different than using a 101??  Has anyone used it to drive
a phase shifter or flanger??  How does it sound with a ring mod??
Demos would be most helpful in answering questions like these.
I plan to record demos after I get more modules.


--
"But speak thou the things which become sound doctrine"
                                -- Titus 2:1

>> The 320, 280, and 390 all have their own niche, and all are 
>> useful. I have all three in my system.
> 
> Moe, you have everything in your system :)
> 

Au contraire!

1. No 850 (plans afoot for a custom performance controller that would 
incorporate the circuitry for one.)
2. No 101 (just a vintage 100.)
3. No 110 (sold mine to make way for 190s, freeing up some space.)
4. No 890 (couldn't wait - committed to MultiMixes long ago.)
5. No 900 (built my own supply.)
6. No 130, 450, 480, 510, 520, 600, 650, SEM filter, pulse divider... 
wait, you can't get those yet, can you? <g>

Moe

It's a good thing I'm confused about the 101, because once I'm done 
with it, I'm  all out of kits!!  I still have four on backorder from 
November.  How are things coming along with 300's and 800's??

THANX!! :)

I'm sorry, I did not mean ton send this to the list.  My bad :(

At 1:04 PM -0400 4/24/03, media.nai@... wrote:

>It's a good thing I'm confused about the 101, because once I'm done
>with it, I'm  all out of kits!!  I still have four on backorder from
>November.  How are things coming along with 300's and 800's??
>
>THANX!! :)