MOTM

Since the list has been this quiet (and Paul still hasn't admitted to buying 
a guitar yet), a few more OT ramblings.

First: "You might like to hear my organ, ride Sally ride."
"If I could hear the horns blow, (indistinguishable -- sounds like "Cynthia 
on the throne")"
(more indistinguishable -- could be "Cynthia and Jerry gotta message they 
sayin"), "all the squares go home!"

Secondly, to Dave B. (clearly the master par excellence of keyboard rock 
history trivia) I'd appreciate some general distinctions between Farfisa and 
Vox Continental organ types. I thought they were the same devices built for 
European and Anglo/American markets respectively. Go easy on me Dave, 
remember I'm just a guitar player.

Unlike Larry, I've always liked the that type of organ sound (the keyboard 
version of my use of fuzz boxes). I used to have an old "Doric" organ which 
had similar timbres. I was never able to get the thing in tune or get the key 
contacts working to any satisfaction, so it always had a certain unsettling 
sound -- it was the answer to the musical question: "what if Alfred 
Hitcthcock had replaced Barry Andrews in XTC?"

Thirdly: I recently saw the movie "Gimmie Shelter" for the first time in many 
years. There was a ten-second shot fairly early in the movie of someone 
onstage tuning a Moog (maybe a IIIP), and I couldn't imagine who used this, 
though I'm not sure of everyone on the bill. Any thoughts?

Fourthly: I also recently saw a movie called "Message to Love: The Isle of 
Wight" which had one of ELPs first performances, AND an all too brief (maybe 
10 minutes) excerpt of Miles. He may have had the great trio of keyboard 
players with him at that time. I need to see that again!

Hasn't anybody else had any thoughts about their 410 TRIPLE RESONANT FILTER?
JB

And who did the BIG version of Mustang Sally? Jackie Wilson? I thought I had 
it, but couldn't find it.

In a message dated 10/17/99 10:04:05 AM, daveb@... writes:

>Close enough. It was a single kbd Farfisa Professional, just like the one
>I
>played for several years. They didn't sound that bad, especially if you
>played them through a Leslie. Of course I ditched mine at the earliest
>opportunity to acquire a Hammond.
>You are declared the winner. Just don't ask what the prize is!

>Moe

Oh, you Youngster!

> Secondly, to Dave B. (clearly the master par excellence of keyboard rock
> history trivia) I'd appreciate some general distinctions between
> Farfisa and
> Vox Continental organ types. I thought they were the same devices
> built for
> European and Anglo/American markets respectively. Go easy on me Dave,
> remember I'm just a guitar player.

Not the same at all. There is better info in Mark Vail's "Vintage
Synthesizers" book, but some of the bigger diffs:

Vox was English originally, later owned by Thomas and others. Farfisa was
(and is )Italian.

Vox Continentals and Super Continentals had drawbars, Jaguars had tabs. All
Farfisas had tabs.

Voxes had a reedy sound, Farfisas had a mellow tab set and a shrill booster
sound, plus reverb - more versatile overall. Earliest Doors albums were Vox,
later stuff like Morrison Hotel was the Gibson G100 (which looked like the
Farfisa Combo Compact from the rear). Classic recorded Farfisa sound is "96
Tears".

Voxes were WAY cooler to look at with their chrome Z legs and reverse
colored keys. Early ones had wooden keys also. Farfisas were generally more
sturdy and dependable.

> Thirdly: I recently saw the movie "Gimmie Shelter" for the first
> time in many
> years. There was a ten-second shot fairly early in the movie of someone
> onstage tuning a Moog (maybe a IIIP), and I couldn't imagine who
> used this,
> though I'm not sure of everyone on the bill. Any thoughts?

Stones owned a III but never really used it much.

> Hasn't anybody else had any thoughts about their 410 TRIPLE
> RESONANT FILTER?
> JB

Haven't even ordered one yet because I'm working 7 days a week right now,
which is why I'm writing all these emails instead of watching footbal!

> And who did the BIG version of Mustang Sally? Jackie Wilson? I
> thought I had
> it, but couldn't find it.

Wicked Wilson Pickett!

Moe

In a message dated 99-10-17 17:05:50 EDT, you write:

<< Fourthly: I also recently saw a movie called "Message to Love: The Isle of 
 Wight" which had one of ELPs first performances, AND an all too brief (maybe 
 10 minutes) excerpt of Miles. He may have had the great trio of keyboard 
 players with him at that time. I need to see that again! >>



funny, our local cable ppv had hendrix at the isle of wight and the who at 
the isle of wight back in august and september. ( about 45 minutes and 1 1/2 
hrs in length respectively) interesting as historical documents. hendrix 
definitely seemed to be having real problems. the who were good. if there`s a 
"woodstock" type movie thats been edited out of the footage, i`d love to see 
it. saw elp once , maybe 1971, at a place in alexandria virginia. great show 
but a terrible place. right about the time "lucky man" was getting its 
initial airplay.
re: miles - there`s an album called "miles davis live at the filmore east" 
which is of about the same vintage. i only recall it having chick corea and 
herbie hancock on it playing electric piano and organ but some of it was 
really hot. don`t recall there being a third kybd player.
best,
dave

In a message dated 99-10-17 17:05:50 EDT, you write:

<< Thirdly: I recently saw the movie "Gimmie Shelter" for the first time in 
many 
 years. There was a ten-second shot fairly early in the movie of someone 
 onstage tuning a Moog (maybe a IIIP), and I couldn't imagine who used this, 
 though I'm not sure of everyone on the bill. Any thoughts? >>




"gimme shelter" - the altamont movie ?  gee, i haven`t seen that in probably 
10 or 12 years. don`t recall that scene but i easily could have missed it. 
besides the stones and the jefferson airplane, i think the grateful dead were 
supposed to play but didn`t (?). don`t recall who else or who might have had 
a modular moog. if you find out, i`d be most curious to know!
thanks!
best,
dave

In a message dated 10/17/99 2:49:19 PM, DAVEVOSH@... writes:

>"gimme shelter" - the altamont movie ?  gee, i haven`t seen that in probably
>
>10 or 12 years. don`t recall that scene but i easily could have missed
>it. 
>besides the stones and the jefferson airplane, i think the grateful dead
>were 
>supposed to play but didn`t (?). don`t recall who else or who might have
>had 
>a modular moog. if you find out, i`d be most curious to know!
>thanks!
>


Yeah! The shot is quite early on in the movie, with all the shots of Melvin 
Beli talking on the phone (and I don't think Beli played at Altamont), and 
it's being setup in the afternoon. Other than the Airplane, Dead and Stones, 
I believe Ike and Tina Turner and CSN&Y were there, but I don't know who 
else. If it belonged to the Stones, it was being setup long before they went 
on -- and I can't imagine them using it during their set.

As for the Isle of Wight movie, I have a vague memory of seeing it at those 
midnight movies in the seventies, though I think it was only recently 
released officially. Yes, it is a "Woodstock" type movie which alternates 
between a band's performance and some nasty looking business meetings. If 
you've heard the lore around this festival, you can imagine what I mean (BTW, 
one of the guys in the meeting is identified as "Ray, The Promoter" -- and I 
kept thinking, "gee, that looks a lot like Ray Davies looked in 1970").

In a message dated 10/17/99 2:46:05 PM, DAVEVOSH@... writes:

>re: miles - there`s an album called "miles davis live at the filmore east"
>
>which is of about the same vintage. i only recall it having chick corea
>and 
>herbie hancock on it playing electric piano and organ but some of it was
>
>really hot. don`t recall there being a third kybd player.
>


Yes, I've got a bunch of live Miles from this period (Dark Magus: Live at 
Carnagie Hall, Black Beauty: Live at the Filmore West, Live at Philharmonic 
Hall New York, Get Up With It, Big Fun, and maybe the best Live Evil). I 
don't remember the lineups on the different albums, and they aren't even the 
same across an entire album in many cases. The classic trio I mentioned 
probably doesn't show up that much but it is: Herbie Hancock, Chick Corea, 
and Keith (I sure love playing distorted Rhodes!) Jarrett -- I guess Jan 
Hammer and Joe Zawinul were busy! During this period, the band was constantly 
in flux with guys "sitting in" a lot. In fact, McLaughlin was never an 
official member of Davis' band though he shows up on a lot of these records 
-- not at the Isle of Wight as I recall though.

And Dave, ya gotta love any stooge that USED to own a Doric!
Thanks for the descriptions!
JB

> From: JWBarlow@...
> And Dave, ya gotta love any stooge that USED to own a Doric!
> Thanks for the descriptions!
> JB

Actually, I am ashamed to say, I never actually owned the Doric. It was
"borrowed" along with a Jordan amp for over a year from another guy by my
drummer, who was the local thug in Jr. High. I was just a nerdy classical
piano player when he cornered me in the restroom and informed me that I
would be playing in his band. I stalled for time by saying I had no
equipment, and he said "No problem - I know a guy I can borrow (read:strong
arm) some from."

And that's how Dave got started in Rock & Roll!

Moe

In a message dated 99-10-17 19:05:33 EDT, you write:

<< alternates 
 between a band's performance and some nasty looking business meetings. If 
 you've heard the lore around this festival, you can imagine what I mean 
(BTW, 
 one of the guys in the meeting is identified as "Ray, The Promoter" -- and I 
 kept thinking, "gee, that looks a lot like Ray Davies looked in 1970"). >>



as in ray davies of the kinks - ? - weird if true. the two films shown on 
local cable were all performance, no meetings etc.. might have almost been 
assembled from unused footage. interesting though and better than something 
with meetings intercut, IMHO. don`t really know anything of the festival`s 
lore, by all means, tell on.......
best,
dave

In a message dated 99-10-17 19:05:33 EDT, you write:

<< And Dave, ya gotta love any stooge that USED to own a Doric!
 Thanks for the descriptions!
  >>



i`m not sure i get this - ?. a "punny' reference to a combo organ and iggy`s 
old band - ? what am i missing here -?  :^)
best,
dave

You missed one of my earlier messages - not surprising since I'm yakking so
much tonite. I talked about all the combo organs I've had, including a
cheapo Italian job called a Doric.

Dave Bradley
Principal Software Engineer
Engineering Animation, Inc.
daveb@...

> -----Original Message-----
> From: DAVEVOSH@... [mailto:DAVEVOSH@...]
> Sent: Sunday, October 17, 1999 6:13 PM
> To: motm@onelist.com
> Subject: Re: [motm] OT: Sally Ride
>
>
> From: DAVEVOSH@...
>
> In a message dated 99-10-17 19:05:33 EDT, you write:
>
> << And Dave, ya gotta love any stooge that USED to own a Doric!
>  Thanks for the descriptions!
>   >>
>
>
>
> i`m not sure i get this - ?. a "punny' reference to a combo organ
> and iggy`s
> old band - ? what am i missing here -?  :^)
> best,
> dave
>
> >

From: "Dave Bradley" <daveb@...>
Oh, you Youngster!

:Vox was English originally, later owned by Thomas
:and others. Farfisa was (and is )Italian.
:Vox Continentals and Super Continentals had 
:drawbars, Jaguars had tabs. All Farfisas had tabs.

Well, most Farfisas had tabs.  The VIP 345 that I used had no tabs at all,
but three sets of drawbars.   I think each set had 16'  8'  5 1/3' and 4'. 
The three sets were flute (sine like) clarinet (saw like) and percussion
(attack type).  If you used much of the clarinet drawbars, it sounded too
buzzy.  It had two 4 octave keyboards and was a but heavy but packed up in
a smallish case and was MUCH lighter than a Hammond.
 
:Voxes had a reedy sound, Farfisas had a mellow tab set
:and a shrill booster sound, plus reverb - more versatile overall.

Funny, that different models were as different as night and day.  The Vox
Jaguar (I owned before the VIP) was rather dull and had no drawbars. 
However, the continental and super continental with their drawbars were
about the coolest sound out at the time I thought (excluding Hammonds of
course).

:Voxes were WAY cooler to look at with their chrome Z legs
:and reverse colored keys. Early ones had wooden keys also.
:Farfisas were generally more sturdy and dependable.

Yes, the Vox did look cool.  Although I always hated the reverse keys. 
Actually, the Jag had one octave of non-reverse keys that signified a
special "bass" voice that could be used to simulate pedals.  There were two
great features I liked about the Farfisa.  Its stand (not as cool as the
Vox) allowed the keyboard to be tilted to any angle.  And the volume pedal
was optical.  No kidding, way back then.  Never any noise.

Great thread Dave, thanks for getting it started.  
Larry

In a message dated 99-10-17 19:15:16 EDT, you write:

<<  I was just a nerdy classical
 piano player when he cornered me in the restroom and informed me that I
 would be playing in his band.  >>



rotflmao.......another great story from our checkered pasts.......
farfisa, vox, gibson, hammond - yeah, but i had never heard of a doric organ 
before.
best,
dave

The name is rather too close to 'dork' organ for comfort, don't you think?

Dave

> From: DAVEVOSH@...
> 
> In a message dated 99-10-17 19:15:16 EDT, you write:
> 
> <<  I was just a nerdy classical
>  piano player when he cornered me in the restroom and informed me that I
>  would be playing in his band.  >>
> 
> 
> 
> rotflmao.......another great story from our checkered pasts.......
> farfisa, vox, gibson, hammond - yeah, but i had never heard of a 
> doric organ 
> before.
> best,
> dave
> 
> >

In a message dated 99-10-17 19:33:24 EDT, you write:

<< I talked about all the combo organs I've had, including a
 cheapo Italian job called a Doric. >>




okay, just one of the ( many ) models i`ve never heard of.  :^)
best,
dave

In a message dated 99-10-17 23:31:31 EDT, you write:

<< The name is rather too close to 'dork' organ for comfort, don't you think? 
>>


never used much less saw or heard of it. from an earlier post, though, i 
gather that they weren`t the greatest.........
best,
dave

In a message dated 10/17/99 4:15:02 PM, daveb@... writes:
>> From: JWBarlow@...
>> And Dave, ya gotta love any stooge that USED to own a Doric!
>> Thanks for the descriptions!

>> JB


Even better that you never owned one (the key here being no longer owning 
one).

In a message dated 10/17/99 8:31:24 PM, daveb@... writes:
>The name is rather too close to 'dork' organ for comfort, don't you think?

Yeah! Since I got mine in about 80 or 81 for about $50. I remember thinking 
when I picked it up "Ah, Doric, like ancient Greece." After a few days I 
thought "what the hell's wrong with this thing?" So I opened it up, and sure 
enough ... ancient grease! Yep, the Dork name came pretty quickly.

Enough to curl your hair!
John "Curly" Barlow

In a message dated 99-10-18 00:40:23 EDT, you write:

<< Yep, the Dork name came pretty quickly.
  >>


sounds pretty grim in a nostalgic sort of way......  :^)
bwest,
dave

Hello--

Since some of you seem to be combo organ afficianados (which I'm not) I have 
a question: Does anyone know what kind of organ they used to use in Nino 
Rota's Fellini soundtracks? 

Thanks,
Rob

PS--Strangely enough, my friend found an organ in NH that he's bringing back 
to the city tonight--It's a Doric!

In a message dated 10/31/99 1:07:43 AM, DAVEVOSH@... writes:

><< alternates 
> between a band's performance and some nasty looking business meetings.
>If 
> you've heard the lore around this festival, you can imagine what I mean
>
>(BTW, 
> one of the guys in the meeting is identified as "Ray, The Promoter" --
>and I 
> kept thinking, "gee, that looks a lot like Ray Davies looked in 1970").


Yes! That Ray Davies! Yes it would be weird if true, he may have just put up 
some money though. And of course it might not be him at all.

>as in ray davies of the kinks - ? - weird if true. the two films shown
>on 
>local cable were all performance, no meetings etc.. might have almost been
>assembled from unused footage. interesting though and better than something
>with meetings intercut, IMHO. don`t really know anything of the festival`s
>lore, by all means, tell on.......


The film is "Message to Love: The Isle of Wight Festival" -- I'm sure it's 
available everywhere. If you're talking about two films that show The Who and 
Hendrix respectively, then yes this is a different film which shows one or 
two songs from maybe 15 or 20 performances -- I remember Joni Mitchell's 
songs being really good. I think I pointed out that there was a nice maybe 10 
minute bit of Miles and (probably one of the first shows by) ELP who are 
maybe doing Pictures at an Exhibition.

The lore of this festival is that it falls about a year after a festival on 
the Isle of Wight, and a year after Woodstock. Well Woodstock quickly became 
a free festival when far more people started showing up before it began than 
were expected. The promoters lost a huge amount of money on the festival, and 
the only way they made any back was by selling away the film and album 
rights, and by selling the Woodstock concert name and logo (I think this is 
the basic story at least). The Isle of Wight promoters didn't want to make 
that same mistake, so they erected a fence which no one could see through, 
and enforced security so one had to pay admission in order to see the show. 
The concert attendees had also heard of Woodstock, and assumed that as long 
as they showed up they could get in for free. So there was this huge tension 
between the fans, the acts, and the promoters. As Townshend introduces Young 
Man Blues he mistakenly says: "This next song's called Blues" after realizing 
his mistake he adds: "Blues... for all you people who paid to get in."

It's worth seeing the film if only for the Miles and ELP bits and other good 
stuff too --- if only to see that the people who got out of hand at this 
years "Woodstock" weren't any worse than people were thirty years ago. 
JB

In a message dated 99-10-31 18:53:28 EST, you write:

<<  If you're talking about two films that show The Who and 
 Hendrix respectively, then yes this is a different film which shows one or 
 two songs from maybe 15 or 20 performances -- I remember Joni Mitchell's 
 songs being really good. I think I pointed out that there was a nice maybe 
10 
 minute bit of Miles and (probably one of the first shows by) ELP who are 
 maybe doing Pictures at an Exhibition. >>



john,
amazing how this email re-surfaced as i sent it about 10 days ago 
originally!!!! must have been in cyber-limbo. still...... yeah, the two 
things i got from cable are separate performances - hendrix about 45 minutes 
and the who about an hour and a half. no other acts. pity....i wouldn`t have 
minded seeing elp...... saw them once in 1972 - ? - maybe - right after the 
first album came out and before they became "big" stars / commercial. they 
really were quite amazing to a 16 year old kid who was a ham radio geek and 
didn`t listen to much rock music then.
best,
dave