MOTM

Here is a teaser of the front panel. Now, try to guess what it actually *does* :)

www.synthtech.com/misc/m520.pdf

Paul S.

Some kind of multiple VCO frequency multiplier?

George
----- Original Message -----
From: Paul Schreiber <synth1@...>
To: MOTM listserv <motm@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, October 24, 2002 9:40 PM
Subject: [motm] MOTM-520 Cloud Generator


> Here is a teaser of the front panel. Now, try to guess what it actually
*does* :)

>
> www.synthtech.com/misc/m520.pdf
>
> Paul S.

> Here is a teaser of the front panel. Now, try to guess what it actually
*does* :)
>
> www.synthtech.com/misc/m520.pdf
>
> Paul S.
>

It's obviously a VCO.  I cheated and looked on the synthtech website, which
says, "MOTM-520 Cloud Generator. A new type of VCO module."  The 1V/OCT, FM
input, PWM input, COARSE and FINE controls look like a conventional VCO with
sine and square (rectanglar) outputs.  But what are SPREAD, PHASE, and
CHAOS?   Are the SPREAD, PHASE, and CHAOS jacks all VC inputs?   My bet is
that they are, and the module is a VCO with a built-in timbre modulator.

I'd like to know if it has any digital circuitry and will require the
3-voltage power supply.

Ok, Paul, how about a sound sample?  Hmm?

-Richard

a granular vco? 

heh.

dan.

On Thu, 24 Oct 2002, Paul Schreiber wrote:

> Here is a teaser of the front panel. Now, try to guess what it actually *does* :)
> 
> www.synthtech.com/misc/m520.pdf
> 
> Paul S.
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
> 

-- 
yo cocino con george

Not a single wave, but multiple waves.  Phase is the amount of shift in
phase angle from the fundamental?  Spread is how far apart the subsequent
waves repeat?  VCO designed for control mostly?  Chaos, some randomness to
spread or phase or both?

----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Brewster <pugix@...>
To: MOTM listserv <motm@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, October 24, 2002 9:14 PM
Subject: Re: [motm] MOTM-520 Cloud Generator


> Here is a teaser of the front panel. Now, try to guess what it actually
*does* :)
>
> www.synthtech.com/misc/m520.pdf
>
> Paul S.
>

It's obviously a VCO.  I cheated and looked on the synthtech website, which
says, "MOTM-520 Cloud Generator. A new type of VCO module."  The 1V/OCT, FM
input, PWM input, COARSE and FINE controls look like a conventional VCO with
sine and square (rectanglar) outputs.  But what are SPREAD, PHASE, and
CHAOS?   Are the SPREAD, PHASE, and CHAOS jacks all VC inputs?   My bet is
that they are, and the module is a VCO with a built-in timbre modulator.

I'd like to know if it has any digital circuitry and will require the
3-voltage power supply.

Ok, Paul, how about a sound sample?  Hmm?

-Richard





Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

>>It's obviously a VCO.<<

Or a granular cloud generator. I believe a long while back Paul gave more 
details about it, saying it was based on a Robert Rich patch that did a similar 
thing. If you can find that info (maybe Robert Rich has a website), you should 
be able to find out what it does.

-Elhardt

From: "Richard Brewster" <pugix@...>


> > Here is a teaser of the front panel. Now, try to guess what it actually
> *does* :)
> >
> > www.synthtech.com/misc/m520.pdf
> >
> > Paul S.
> >
>
> It's obviously a VCO.  I cheated and looked on the synthtech website,
which
> says, "MOTM-520 Cloud Generator. A new type of VCO module."  The 1V/OCT,
FM
> input, PWM input, COARSE and FINE controls look like a conventional VCO
with
> sine and square (rectanglar) outputs.  But what are SPREAD, PHASE, and
> CHAOS?   Are the SPREAD, PHASE, and CHAOS jacks all VC inputs?   My bet is
> that they are, and the module is a VCO with a built-in timbre modulator.
>
> I'd like to know if it has any digital circuitry and will require the
> 3-voltage power supply.
>
> Ok, Paul, how about a sound sample?  Hmm?
>
> -Richard

I have vague memories of Paul talking about a device that had a bunch of
VCO's in it... if this is it spread might control the difference in
frequency between each of the VCOs, and chaos might control how much FM
there was between the vcos.  Just guessing, though.

A sound sample would be very illuminating!

                    ...Craig

> >>It's obviously a VCO.<<
>
> Or a granular cloud generator. I believe a long while back Paul gave more
> details about it, saying it was based on a Robert Rich patch that did a similar
> thing. If you can find that info (maybe Robert Rich has a website), you should
> be able to find out what it does.
>

What it is *not* is a "granular cloud" generator, in the most common sense of the term. That
being, a tone 'stream' which is "chopped up" using very fast VCAs/EGs. Nope. However, a certain
Stooge is on the right track. The basic effect (no phase mod, no chaos mod) can be heard on parts
of the 'Bestiary" CD (as a patch using 22 modules!!). But for now, the mystery remains.......

This is a new +5V requirement module, and not a kit (all SMT).

Paul S.

> 
> A sound sample would be very illuminating!
>

Heh....about 100 hours of SW coding needed first :)

Paul S.

I think all of the guesses on this module have been far too conservative.

I think "Coarse" and "Fine" refer, not to pitch, but to the amount of "Grit"
in the final signal. (I originally thought that 'Fine' referred to one of
the Stooges, as an honorarium, but now that I understand the entire function
of the module, I see what its true purpose is.)

"Spread" obviously adds some kind of non-butter flavoring to the surface of
the sound. I'm glad this is a control, because some of us prefer not to have
any spread at all.

Any student of history will tell you that "SPR Mod" clearly stands for
"Senatus Populusque Romanus Modus," which is Latin for "Change in the Senate
and the Roman People." By modifying this relationship, I think you can tweak
the level and quality of democracy the module will impose of the rest of
your system (dubious results when you patch it into the 521 Emperor module,
though... the latter may get a knife switch in the back... be sure to at
least add some 526 Soothsayer CV).

"FM Mod" is not the standard VCO control, but rather an actual FM radio tap.

"PH Mod" seems to have everyone fooled. It doesn't stand for "phase" at all,
but simply the amount of "acid" content you can add to the sound. You can
get really "60's" sounds fully CCW, and "house" sounds to the right. (The
center setting is very "80's" and sounds kind of nasal...) I've seen this
control on older EMU modulars, but the extreme ranges of the dial were
labeled "Add Acid" and "Add Soda Ash." Personally, I always found that kind
of counterintuitive.

"Mode: Wide/Narrow" seems to select how much ice cream gets added to the
output.

The final knob isn't really a knob at all; it is simply a graphic of the
Schreiber family crest: "Phase Spread Chaos." ('Phase' is from the Greek
'phainesthai,' or "to appear to.") This was the motto of the Greek goddess
Eris, who of course threw the apple marked "To the most beautiful" into a
group of the other goddesses to cause them to argue amongst themselves (a
pivotal event in the history of the Illuminati).

Which is what Paul does to us when he gets close to releasing a new module.
He throws out an apple labeled "Cloud Generator" ...

As for the jacks, we have the usual "IV/OCT" ("Fourth Octopus"), FM ("First
Marking" because he labeled that jack first), "PWM" is "Personal Windows
Manager" (Macintosh interface expected 1Q 2003), and "SQR OUT" squirts water
if you bring your eye close to the hole in the panel. This is clearly
documented in the manual, and it's Paul's way of getting you to start
reading it!

"SINE OUT" is misspelled, but you have to apply a signal here before
shutting down your system.


Okay, how close am I? Do I win?


Mr. T

Who cares - I'll take 2 cloud generators and 1 rhythm wheel
That's all.
Steve M.

-----Original Message-----
From: Paul Schreiber [mailto:synth1@...] 
Sent: 25 October 2002 02:40
To: MOTM listserv
Subject: [motm] MOTM-520 Cloud Generator
 
Here is a teaser of the front panel. Now, try to guess what it actually
*does* :)

www.synthtech.com/misc/m520.pdf

Paul S.






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<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>  Service.

> a granular vco?

yeah, that's what i thought too, but it seems way too obvious... a VCable
grain cloud generator... but what's with the sine out? i only know the
very basics of granular synthesis (it's a digital thing, after all) so
maybe that has some function in the grain cloud that i just don't know...

wait... maybe it's TWO modules in one... a simple vco that is granulated
internally (but you have the sine out too), and all the coarse, fine,
phase, fm controls are for this part of the module... then spread and
chaos and mode apply to the grain cloud... which comes out of the sqr out?

argh. shouldn't think out loud on public mailing lists...

bleep.
out.

---
www.mp3.com/leichenfeld
www.mp3.com/captainhotrod
www.mp3.com/silenttristero

heh.. Ken, I think you got it! ;)

George
----- Original Message -----
From: Tkacs, Ken <ken.tkacs@...>
To: MOTM Forum All <MOTM@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, October 25, 2002 9:05 AM
Subject: RE: [motm] MOTM-520 Cloud Generator


>
> I think all of the guesses on this module have been far too conservative.
>
> I think "Coarse" and "Fine" refer, not to pitch, but to the amount of
"Grit"
> in the final signal. (I originally thought that 'Fine' referred to one of
> the Stooges, as an honorarium, but now that I understand the entire
function
> of the module, I see what its true purpose is.)
>
> "Spread" obviously adds some kind of non-butter flavoring to the surface
of
> the sound. I'm glad this is a control, because some of us prefer not to
have
> any spread at all.
>
> Any student of history will tell you that "SPR Mod" clearly stands for
> "Senatus Populusque Romanus Modus," which is Latin for "Change in the
Senate
> and the Roman People." By modifying this relationship, I think you can
tweak
> the level and quality of democracy the module will impose of the rest of
> your system (dubious results when you patch it into the 521 Emperor
module,
> though... the latter may get a knife switch in the back... be sure to at
> least add some 526 Soothsayer CV).
>
> "FM Mod" is not the standard VCO control, but rather an actual FM radio
tap.
>
> "PH Mod" seems to have everyone fooled. It doesn't stand for "phase" at
all,
> but simply the amount of "acid" content you can add to the sound. You can
> get really "60's" sounds fully CCW, and "house" sounds to the right. (The
> center setting is very "80's" and sounds kind of nasal...) I've seen this
> control on older EMU modulars, but the extreme ranges of the dial were
> labeled "Add Acid" and "Add Soda Ash." Personally, I always found that
kind
> of counterintuitive.
>
> "Mode: Wide/Narrow" seems to select how much ice cream gets added to the
> output.
>
> The final knob isn't really a knob at all; it is simply a graphic of the
> Schreiber family crest: "Phase Spread Chaos." ('Phase' is from the Greek
> 'phainesthai,' or "to appear to.") This was the motto of the Greek goddess
> Eris, who of course threw the apple marked "To the most beautiful" into a
> group of the other goddesses to cause them to argue amongst themselves (a
> pivotal event in the history of the Illuminati).
>
> Which is what Paul does to us when he gets close to releasing a new
module.
> He throws out an apple labeled "Cloud Generator" ...
>
> As for the jacks, we have the usual "IV/OCT" ("Fourth Octopus"), FM
("First
> Marking" because he labeled that jack first), "PWM" is "Personal Windows
> Manager" (Macintosh interface expected 1Q 2003), and "SQR OUT" squirts
water

> if you bring your eye close to the hole in the panel. This is clearly
> documented in the manual, and it's Paul's way of getting you to start
> reading it!
>
> "SINE OUT" is misspelled, but you have to apply a signal here before
> shutting down your system.
>
>
> Okay, how close am I? Do I win?
>
>
> Mr. T
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

Repeat after me: this is not a "grainular synthesis" module, there are no 'grains' in there
unless you spill beer on it.

Paul S.

>Repeat after me: this is not a "grainular synthesis" module, there 
>are no 'grains' in there
>unless you spill beer on it.

Well, call it the same name as a Macintosh Granular Synthesis 
program, and there is going to be confusion.

Cloud Generator software, Center for Research in Electronic Art 
Technology, Dept. of Music, UC Santa Barbara...
http://www.create.ucsb.edu/htmls/code.html


Simon
Canberra
AUSTRALIA

Going back to the main page at CREATE I found some
info on Morton Subotnick.  I did not know he was still
creating music.  It looks like he has a performance on
November 1st in Califonia.  They also give a short
overview of what he has done.

   
http://www.create.ucsb.edu/news/021101subotnik.html

It looks like there is some good stuff going on with
CREATE.

--Shemp

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site
http://webhosting.yahoo.com/

Speaking of digital audio, what is the bit depth and sampling rate of the
digital modules that can produce or process audio??

>What it is *not* is a "granular cloud" generator, in the most common sense
>>of the term. That being, a tone 'stream' which is "chopped up" using very
>>fast VCAs/EGs. Nope. However, a certain Stooge is on the right track. The
>>basic effect (no phase mod, no chaos mod) can be heard on parts
>of the 'Bestiary" CD (as a patch using 22 modules!!). But for now, the
>>mystery remains.......

Well, no one is going to come up with a better description than Todd :)

I've monkeyed around with a VC hex oscillator (key word: monkey) based on
the 808 cymbal, and added a "spread" control with a totem pole of voltage
dividers, so I think I have some idea what it does.

However, even after reading Seth's speculative description of the
Wavewarper, I still can't seem to place the third axis in my mind.
Although the notion of a "Z-plane anti-filter" makes some sense, it's hard
to imagine the sound.

I remember reading about the module needing a big selector switch, but the
legend on the bottom left shows root, unity, and power, which being only
three choices could be replaced by a toggle.  So where does the big
selector switch go??

Is the 510 Wavewarper analogue??

>This is a new +5V requirement module, and not a kit (all SMT).

Does this apply to the 600 series as well??

Do we still get schematics in case Paul gets hit by the proverbial bus??
I've always appreciated MOTM for it's excellent educational value.

I also like the idea of partial kits that save Paul time, and us money.

I'm looking forward to the MOTM 600 sequencer and the quantizer that Paul
mentioned.  If I wanted to work with MIDI, why would I be building a CV
modular?? ;)

I like the AS programmable quantizer, but imho, the "best" quantizer would
have at least a couple of CV inputs.  I would like to see CV inputs do
things like change keys, change scales, alter transposition, and restrict
notes.  That's right, the ability for your modulation sources to modulate
in the musical sense of the word!!   Also, since it's impossible to think
of every scale, the ability to store user programmed scales would be a
necessity.

Anyway, I am definitely excited about these 500 modules.  So unless the
"Nest of Envelopes" is for the birds, I plan on getting all five of them :)


Btw, I tried to download the catalog, but it didn't work:

"Not Found

The requested URL /motmcatalog.html was not found on this server."

>
> Speaking of digital audio, what is the bit depth and sampling rate of the
> digital modules that can produce or process audio??

The only one that really does this is the Munging Decimator, and it ranges from 4 to 12 bits at
rates not yet decided.

>
> However, even after reading Seth's speculative description of the
> Wavewarper, I still can't seem to place the third axis in my mind.
> Although the notion of a "Z-plane anti-filter" makes some sense, it's hard
> to imagine the sound.

There is a 3min demo at www.synthtech.com/demo/wavewarper.mp3


>
> I remember reading about the module needing a big selector switch, but the
> legend on the bottom left shows root, unity, and power, which being only
> three choices could be replaced by a toggle.  So where does the big
> selector switch go??

Right there. It switches 14 wires. Hard to find a toggle switch for 14 wires :)

>
> Is the 510 Wavewarper analogue??

Yes, 100%.
>
> Does this apply to the 600 series as well??

The vast majority of 500/600 Series will require the new power supply, or you will have to get a
seperate +5V, 6A supply and wire into the new connector boards.

>
> Do we still get schematics in case Paul gets hit by the proverbial bus??
> I've always appreciated MOTM for it's excellent educational value.

Yes.

>
> I also like the idea of partial kits that save Paul time, and us money.

I will pnder to see if this makes sense. Many of the newer kits have "zero panel wiring" so a
'semi-kit' makes no sense.


Paul S.

On Tuesday 05 November 2002 15:46, Paul Schreiber wrote:
> There is a 3min demo at
> www.synthtech.com/demo/wavewarper.mp3

Wow, I'm sold!

- Robert

> > I also like the idea of partial kits that save Paul time, and us 
money.
> 
> I will pnder to see if this makes sense. Many of the newer kits 
have "zero panel wiring" so a
> 'semi-kit' makes no sense.
> Paul S.

In my opinion, a partial kit should consist of: 
1)PCB 
2)Panel
3)eventually rare components
It would make sense and I suppose would be highly appreciated in a 
very big analog project (SuperMoe? or... 12bandFixedFilter?)
but in case of complicated assembling situations such as SMD projects 
this would be impossible,and I don't think hardwiring the panel is 
really the longest step in assembling.
In any case I'd love partial kits where possible,I'd order lots of 
modules I'm sure (We may promise to Paul that we'll buy the best pots 
available even in a partial kit ;) 
Enrico Italy

Could someone please explain a little about surface mount, 
and why it necessarily precludes a kit format?
~Terry

Surface mount technology (SMT) is VERY small, so small that it would be easy to ruin a kit with a little slip of the soldering iron.  I imagine that the 500 and 600 series have so many components that they wouldn't all fit if they were normal sized.

Also, I think that PICs (programmable ICs?, which Paul S. is using at the heart of several of these modules) use SMT-sized pins.  Could be wrong on that one.

--PBr

-----Original Message-----
From: xiphiguy [mailto:tahrens@...]
Sent: Wednesday, November 06, 2002 12:55 PM
To: motm@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [motm] 500 & 600 series


Could someone please explain a little about surface mount, 
and why it necessarily precludes a kit format?

> Could someone please explain a little about surface mount,
> and why it necessarily precludes a kit format?

Have you ever tried soldering surface mount parts manually? If you
haven't, I can tell you, it sucks and is VERY error prone.

-->Neil

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Neil Bradley            In the land of the blind, the one eyed man is not
Synthcom Systems, Inc.  king - he's a prisoner.
ICQ #29402898

It is BOTH a handling issue and a solder issue. For example, if a design used ONE 0.015mfd SMT
cap, how in the world would I give it to you? The cap is 0.08 x 0.05 inches, and has NO
markings!!

SMT is 99.99% robotic pick and place. Soldering is done by applying a thick paste on top of the
exposed pads, dropping the part on top, then running the pcb through a giant oven. The entire
board 'cooks' at like 400F for maybe 15 seconds. This melts the paste, the parts "plop" down due
to gravity, and the solder cools.

Paul S.

I would not want any part of even trying it.  It can certainly be done.
Tony Clark's entire DIY synth is surface mount stuff.  He is very proficient
at it.  But, personally, I agree with Neil and would rather go have some
dental work done than solder some of the SMD stuff.


----- Original Message -----
From: Neil Bradley <nb@...>
Have you ever tried soldering surface mount parts manually? If you haven't,
I can tell you, it sucks and is VERY error prone.

I was originally planning on building my system in an open frame rack --
basically two rack rails sticking up from the bottom, with no top and no
sides.  The problem is that I would have to completely disassemble the
entire thing in order to move it..

My new idea is ordering a 19" case custom made to my specifications.

I'm thinking it should be about 40U tall -- rack units not motm units.
That will give me enough space for 15U of "regular" motm, 5U for a panel of
third-party modules, 5U for a panel of 500-series modules, and 5U for
600-series/sequencer stuff, leaving 10U for the power supply, pro-4, and
the possibility of future expansion.

So that would be about 5'10" tall, and couple inches more than 19" wide.
However, I still want to build a black monolith, so Zarathustra should be
as flat as possible.

How deep does it have to be in order to fit everything??

Is Synthesis Technology planning on releasing any modules deeper than the
"2U" modules already produced??

What about third party modules mounted behind Stooge panels??  I'd measure
it myself, if I had the brackets already :)

I'm thinking if I leave on the rear lid during use, it will be balanced
enough from front to back to keep from tipping over.

Is there a custom case supplier that anyone would recommend??  Things
change, and I haven't bought a custom flight case in about ten years.


THANX!!  :)


Btw, is the MOTM-480 shipping yet??



--
"It is out of the deepest depth the highest must come to its height."
                                       --Nietzsche

There is some "depth" info on the "Chart" at http://www.modularsynth.com

It's not complete but may help. Blacet modules are 6.5" deep max.

--
Regards,
--/////--
John Blacet
Blacet Research
http://www.blacet.com

It's been my experience so far that the Blacet pcbs mounted on Stooge 
panels are the deepest. My Blacet Time Machine mounted on a Stooge 
panel is 7 1/8" deep BEHIND the panel. Allow say 8" behind your rail 
fronts and you should be able to handle anything.

Moe

>>>>>
There is some "depth" info on the "Chart" at 
http://www.modularsynth.com

It's not complete but may help. Blacet modules are 6.5" deep max.
<<<<<

a) an inside depth of 9" or more is fine.

b) MOTM-480 not shipping until Feb.


Paul S.

The minimum for the deepest Stooge bracket seems to be about the same depth
as the synth.com cabinets, assuming you do not want to put anything behind
the modules.
http://www.wiseguysynth.com/larry/cabinet/dotcom/deep.jpg
Larry


----- Original Message -----
From: <media.nai@...>
How deep does it have to be in order to fit everything??
What about third party modules mounted behind Stooge panels??

How about some more information on this demo.  What modules were used?  How
did the wavewarper play into the patch or overall sound?

----- Original Message -----
From: Robert van der Kamp <robnet@...>
To: <motm@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 05, 2002 9:06 AM
Subject: Re: [motm] 500 & 600 series


On Tuesday 05 November 2002 15:46, Paul Schreiber wrote:
> There is a 3min demo at
> www.synthtech.com/demo/wavewarper.mp3

Wow, I'm sold!

- Robert