Synth-DIY Yahoo! Groups Archives

Thread

Hypothetical Q

1999-09-16 by Paul Schreiber

Just *suppose* I had 2400 CEM3340 VCO chips. :)

What should I do with them?

a) Use it in MOTM
b) make a poly-synth (small, portable)
c) give them to Doepfer (hee hee)

??!?

Paul S.
living a strange week in Fort Worth

RE: Hypothetical Q

1999-09-16 by Tkacs, Ken

Personally, I like "a" the best of the three, even though relying on custom
chips in the MOTM scares me a lot (as Scotty said in "Friday's Child," 'Fool
me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me.')

On the other hand, if a decent VCO can be made for cheap using the CEM
chips, then maybe it's worth a shot. If using the CEM chips doesn't
significantly lower the cost of a quality VCO as compared to one made from
discreet components, then I have to go back to "it just scares me."

"b" doesn't personally interest me, and "c" is... just... *crazy* talk. :-)

-----Original Message-----
From: "Paul Schreiber" <synth1@...>

Just *suppose* I had 2400 CEM3340 VCO chips. :)

What should I do with them?

a) Use it in MOTM
b) make a poly-synth (small, portable)
c) give them to Doepfer (hee hee)

RE: Hypothetical Q

1999-09-16 by Dave Bradley

a) don't care for the sound much, and would still have replacement issues 10
years down the line.
b) ditto
c) Naaaaaa
d) sell for big bux on the open market to finance other MOTM development -
sounds good to me.
e) Sell to Doepfer for $50.00 a shot heh heh

Moe

>
> From: "Paul Schreiber" <synth1@...>
>
> Just *suppose* I had 2400 CEM3340 VCO chips. :)
>
> What should I do with them?
>
> a) Use it in MOTM
> b) make a poly-synth (small, portable)
> c) give them to Doepfer (hee hee)
>

Re: Hypothetical Q

1999-09-16 by hodad1@xxxxxxxxxx.xxx

Well, a polysynth sounds intriguing, hypothetically speaking. I would guess
a box with
a bunch of knobs and a midi in for keyboard control would make the best
sense
economically. To me the 2 big questions would be

1. what kind of vcf (preferably something that kicks butt)

2. would such a limited run of synths (what--maybe 300?) be large enough
to
defray design & startup costs?

Certainly something to ponder while I'm bored here at work

tomr
-----Original Message-----
From: Paul Schreiber <synth1@...>
To: MOTM listserv <motm@onelist.com>
Date: Thursday, September 16, 1999 5:19 PM
Subject: [motm] Hypothetical Q

>From: "Paul Schreiber" <synth1@...>
>
>Just *suppose* I had 2400 CEM3340 VCO chips. :)
>
>What should I do with them?
>
>a) Use it in MOTM
>b) make a poly-synth (small, portable)
>c) give them to Doepfer (hee hee)
>
>??!?
>
>Paul S.
>living a strange week in Fort Worth
>
>
>
>--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ----------------------------
>
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>------------------------------------------------------------------------

Re: Hypothetical Q

1999-09-16 by Christopher Jeris

I wouldn't be interested in a 3340-based MOTM VCO. Are there other
applications though, for which the chips would be compellingly better than
discrete oscillators -- like some kind of "Wacky Formant Oscillator Bank"
where number of oscillators is more important than the perfection of each
individual one?

(How do the 3340 and 3374 compare? I know Paul had talked about a 3374
VCO, waaaay back in the early days.)

Failing that, sell them to finance MOTM development. :)
Don't sell them to Doepfer, they will just make A-111's with them, all
those people should buy MOTM-300's instead!

peace,
Chris

Re: Hypothetical Q

1999-09-16 by james holloway

>From: "Paul Schreiber" <synth1@...>
>Reply-To: motm@onelist.com
>To: "MOTM listserv" <motm@onelist.com>
>Subject: [motm] Hypothetical Q
>Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 15:49:53 -0500
>
>From: "Paul Schreiber" <synth1@...>
>
>Just *suppose* I had 2400 CEM3340 VCO chips. :)
>
>What should I do with them?
>
>a) Use it in MOTM
>b) make a poly-synth (small, portable)
>c) give them to Doepfer (hee hee)
>
>??!?
>
>Paul S.
>living a strange week in Fort Worth
>
>I vote for you know what but #2 may not be too bad either.

Re: Hypothetical Q

1999-09-16 by J. Larry Hendry

> From: "Paul Schreiber" <synth1@...>
> Just *suppose* I had 2400 CEM3340 VCO chips. :)
> What should I do with them?

# 1 - Sell them to those in need of repairs of older synths. Make enough
money to help support MOTM development.
# 2 - Sell them to those who would like to have a few stocked away to
repair synths they have, IF they need them for future repairs. Again, make
money and support MOTM.
# 3 - Use them in MOTM only if it offers something significant not found in
the 300 or planned 310 (even if the only added feature is a better price).
However, if I were buying a MOTM module with this chip, I would want to buy
a spare 3340 for each one in my system since eventually they will be in
short supply again. Like others have said, I am would still buy the
discrete version if they were priced near the same.

I could be interested in option b) {small poly synth} if the situation were
right. I think a Schreiber poly synth should:
1 - be limited production (maybe 100 or so).
2 - be offered first to MOTM subscribers
3 - offer some unique and cool features or controls that make it unique
when compared to other nice poly analogs like the OB-8 or Jupiters. I like
the "small and portable" idea. Maybe even MIDI controlled without a
keyboard. Although each poly synth is unique in its own way, I mean
significantly unique. (example, the Gleeman is a very unique mono synth
because of the case. The "Schreiber" poly synth should have no menus, but
all the cool features you really wished your other poly synths have (like
inputs, knobs, some patchability, etc.).

Option c) should be banished from your mind.

Larry Hendry

Re: Hypothetical Q

1999-09-17 by JWBarlow@xxx.xxx

In a message dated 9/16/99 2:19:50 PM, synth1@... writes:

>Just *suppose* I had 2400 CEM3340 VCO chips. :)

>What should I do with them?

>a) Use it in MOTM
>b) make a poly-synth (small, portable)
>c) give them to Doepfer (hee hee)

>??!?

HEY!!! What the hell happened to

d) sell to Barlow as scrap
Oh! I get it! Fouled up end caps are OK but you get something good......

Well then suppose there were developed a MOTM 3U (maybe 4U) dual VCO with
good working stuff (LIN FM -- maybe even thru zero a la JH, both syncs, PWM,
did I miss anything?) but not much external circuitry (i.e., no sine) to keep
the cost down. How much do you think one of these would run? Seems like the
1U 310 could be moved up a few months as well.

John "He'll buy anything" Barlow

Re: Hypothetical Q

1999-09-17 by Seth Redmore

I like the idea of doing a small polysynth. Something portable, with groovy
performance features built in. Perhaps mated with the domoas? Midi only?
Unique interface (big ribbons? arpeggiators? 8 different filter types?)

I also like the idea of doing a really gnarly module for motm -- no VCO
(boooooring), but something with like 16 voices and a formant filter (the
"chorus" module :) ).

--Seth

J. Larry Hendry wrote:

> From: "J. Larry Hendry" <jlarryh@...>
>
> > From: "Paul Schreiber" <synth1@...>
> > Just *suppose* I had 2400 CEM3340 VCO chips. :)
> > What should I do with them?
>
> # 1 - Sell them to those in need of repairs of older synths. Make enough
> money to help support MOTM development.
> # 2 - Sell them to those who would like to have a few stocked away to
> repair synths they have, IF they need them for future repairs. Again, make
> money and support MOTM.
> # 3 - Use them in MOTM only if it offers something significant not found in
> the 300 or planned 310 (even if the only added feature is a better price).
> However, if I were buying a MOTM module with this chip, I would want to buy
> a spare 3340 for each one in my system since eventually they will be in
> short supply again. Like others have said, I am would still buy the
> discrete version if they were priced near the same.
>
> I could be interested in option b) {small poly synth} if the situation were
> right. I think a Schreiber poly synth should:
> 1 - be limited production (maybe 100 or so).
> 2 - be offered first to MOTM subscribers
> 3 - offer some unique and cool features or controls that make it unique
> when compared to other nice poly analogs like the OB-8 or Jupiters. I like
> the "small and portable" idea. Maybe even MIDI controlled without a
> keyboard. Although each poly synth is unique in its own way, I mean
> significantly unique. (example, the Gleeman is a very unique mono synth
> because of the case. The "Schreiber" poly synth should have no menus, but
> all the cool features you really wished your other poly synths have (like
> inputs, knobs, some patchability, etc.).
>
> Option c) should be banished from your mind.
>
> Larry Hendry
>
> --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ----------------------------
>
> New!! Free E-mail @..., @..., @... and more!
> Mail.com makes it easy to set up a free, personalized e-mail address
> that you can access anytime and anywhere.
> http://www.onelist.com/ad/mailcom1
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

RE: Hypothetical Q

1999-09-17 by Tentochi

I vote for using them in an MOTM-based project. Preferrably a module of
some nature. Perhaps a couple of different types of modules. Perhaps also
the poly-synth would conform to the MOTM standard and be about 5U???

--Shemp

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Paul Schreiber [mailto:synth1@...]
> Sent: Thursday, September 16, 1999 4:50 PM
> To: MOTM listserv
> Subject: [motm] Hypothetical Q
>
>
> From: "Paul Schreiber" <synth1@...>
>
> Just *suppose* I had 2400 CEM3340 VCO chips. :)
>
> What should I do with them?
>
> a) Use it in MOTM
> b) make a poly-synth (small, portable)
> c) give them to Doepfer (hee hee)
>
> ??!?
>
> Paul S.
> living a strange week in Fort Worth
>
>
>
> --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ----------------------------
>
> GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU!
> Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in
> forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons!
> http://www.onelist.com/ad/gator1
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>

Re: Hypothetical Q

1999-09-17 by CEM3310@xxx.xxx

In a message dated 9/16/99 2:19:53 PM, synth1@... writes:

>From: "Paul Schreiber" <synth1@...>
>
>
>
>Just *suppose* I had 2400 CEM3340 VCO chips. :)
>
>
>
>What should I do with them?
>
>
>
>a) Use it in MOTM
>
>b) make a poly-synth (small, portable)
>
>c) give them to Doepfer (hee hee)
>

d) put them on your head, look in the mirror and ask yourself if you think
we're all so stupid believing you haven't been sitting on them all the while.

Re: Hypothetical Q

1999-09-17 by J. Larry Hendry

> From: Seth Redmore <sredmore@...>
> I also like the idea of doing a really gnarly module for motm -- no VCO
> (boooooring), but something with like 16 voices and a formant filter (the
> "chorus" module :) ).

Hey, I like that kind of thinking.
LH

Re: Hypothetical Q

1999-09-17 by JWBarlow@xxx.xxx

In no way do I believe that Paul was (or would!) "sit on" 3340s (not to
mention the several other CEMs that he "claims" to have found on a visit to
Doug Curtis "storage shed").

Why? For one reason, because I first heard about Synthesis Technologies
THROUGH OnChip Systems (Doug Curtis) when I made an inquiry (via mail) to
them about the availability of CEM ICs. When I first got on synth-diy about 2
& 1/2 years ago, Paul was beginning to talk about the idea of building
modular kits (weren't you thinking of a super high end kit called Titan?) and
wanted to make a new run of 3340s for use in such a modular -- I remember
there being a lot of list interest in the 3340s that didn't pan out to the
several thousand dollars required to retool.

As I recall Paul offered 3340s for the whole year of 1997 (I bought some for
$16, and a bunch of hard sync rejects for $4.00 each!!!!!). I spent well over
a hundred dollars buying stuff from Paul before the first MOTM module was
shipped, I've also bought several "bonus boxes" of Paul's junk (whenever he
cleans out his work room -- hence the recent references) as well as all my
MOTM stuff and have never felt that Paul has tried to rip me off -- ever!

I also believe that if Paul had known of these 3340s he would have used them
in the MOTM VCO, or at least proposed the idea. A few months ago I bought
several MOTM 300 PCB rejects (for $4.00 each), but the cost of: the MAT 02,
two OP 275s, LT 1013 and the tempco is well over what I imagine a 3340
costing -- if you cost it out, you'll see that this is no way to save money.

But I do like your choice of screen name. I bought several 3310s from Paul
(since I really like them!) before he ran out of them. It was easy since he
posted several times to the list (either MOTM or DIY) that he was running low
and almost out -- I guess I was lucky to be on the list, and lucky to pay
attention.

I may be a stooge, but I ain't stupid,
JB

In a message dated 9/16/99 8:48:57 PM, CEM3310@... writes:

>d) put them on your head, look in the mirror and ask yourself if you think
>
>we're all so stupid believing you haven't been sitting on them all the
>while.
>

Re: Hypothetical Q

1999-09-17 by Andy Finch

I agree with Larry on all his points.

A polysynth would be interesting, provided it left some chips over for points
#1 & #2. I'll even buy one or two myself, for my SH101. But I don't think I
need any for my recently acquired (for free! - in mint condition!) JP-8.

"J. Larry Hendry" wrote:

> From: "J. Larry Hendry" <jlarryh@...>
>
> > From: "Paul Schreiber" <synth1@...>
> > Just *suppose* I had 2400 CEM3340 VCO chips. :)
> > What should I do with them?
>
> # 1 - Sell them to those in need of repairs of older synths. Make enough
> money to help support MOTM development.
> # 2 - Sell them to those who would like to have a few stocked away to
> repair synths they have, IF they need them for future repairs. Again, make
> money and support MOTM.
> # 3 - Use them in MOTM only if it offers something significant not found in
> the 300 or planned 310 (even if the only added feature is a better price).
> However, if I were buying a MOTM module with this chip, I would want to buy
> a spare 3340 for each one in my system since eventually they will be in
> short supply again. Like others have said, I am would still buy the
> discrete version if they were priced near the same.
>
> I could be interested in option b) {small poly synth} if the situation were
> right. I think a Schreiber poly synth should:
> 1 - be limited production (maybe 100 or so).
> 2 - be offered first to MOTM subscribers
> 3 - offer some unique and cool features or controls that make it unique
> when compared to other nice poly analogs like the OB-8 or Jupiters. I like
> the "small and portable" idea. Maybe even MIDI controlled without a
> keyboard. Although each poly synth is unique in its own way, I mean
> significantly unique. (example, the Gleeman is a very unique mono synth
> because of the case. The "Schreiber" poly synth should have no menus, but
> all the cool features you really wished your other poly synths have (like
> inputs, knobs, some patchability, etc.).
>
> Option c) should be banished from your mind.
>
> Larry Hendry
>
> --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ----------------------------
>
> New!! Free E-mail @..., @..., @... and more!
> Mail.com makes it easy to set up a free, personalized e-mail address
> that you can access anytime and anywhere.
> http://www.onelist.com/ad/mailcom1
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

RE: Hypothetical Q

1999-09-17 by Dave Bradley

Hear, hear! I once had a vintage Gremlin<g>!

Dave Bradley
Principal Software Engineer
Engineering Animation, Inc.
daveb@...

> From: "David Bivins" <david@...>
>
> Sell them as you sell the other CEMs. Buy the Lexus :)
>
> I'd love to have some sort of "rare, esoteric" module, but
> honestly I don't
> think a 3340-based module would really excite me a whole lot. It's like
> having a choice between a rare, vintage Mustang and a rare, vintage AMC
> Hornet. Sure, you don't see Hornets on the road anymore, but would I want
> to? Nah. Leave the chips for those beautiful instruments that
> will need them
> for replacements, and continue with your own (and others')
> splendid designs!
> E.g., I think JH's 2040 clone is a fantastic idea--and it's kind
> of humorous
> too--ICs replaced discrete, and we're making a "discrete IC" now!
>

Re: Hypothetical Q

1999-09-17 by thebass

Just to make everyone mad. Throw them in the ocean and make a quick time
movie of it or make some sort of calculator non musical thing with them.
you know just to be funny, like we need a 3340 chip to make a good VCO.

Paul Schreiber wrote:

> From: "Paul Schreiber" <synth1@...>
>
> Just *suppose* I had 2400 CEM3340 VCO chips. :)
>
> What should I do with them?
>
> a) Use it in MOTM
> b) make a poly-synth (small, portable)
> c) give them to Doepfer (hee hee)
>
> ??!?
>
> Paul S.
> living a strange week in Fort Worth
>
> --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ----------------------------
>
> GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU!
> Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in
> forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons!
> http://www.onelist.com/ad/gator1
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

RE: Hypothetical Q

1999-09-17 by David Bivins

Sell them as you sell the other CEMs. Buy the Lexus :)

I'd love to have some sort of "rare, esoteric" module, but honestly I don't
think a 3340-based module would really excite me a whole lot. It's like
having a choice between a rare, vintage Mustang and a rare, vintage AMC
Hornet. Sure, you don't see Hornets on the road anymore, but would I want
to? Nah. Leave the chips for those beautiful instruments that will need them
for replacements, and continue with your own (and others') splendid designs!
E.g., I think JH's 2040 clone is a fantastic idea--and it's kind of humorous
too--ICs replaced discrete, and we're making a "discrete IC" now!

David.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Paul Schreiber [mailto:synth1@...]
> Sent: Thursday, September 16, 1999 2:50 PM
> To: MOTM listserv
> Subject: [motm] Hypothetical Q
>
>
> From: "Paul Schreiber" <synth1@...>
>
> Just *suppose* I had 2400 CEM3340 VCO chips. :)
>
> What should I do with them?
>
> a) Use it in MOTM
> b) make a poly-synth (small, portable)
> c) give them to Doepfer (hee hee)
>
> ??!?
>
> Paul S.
> living a strange week in Fort Worth
>
>
>
> --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ----------------------------
>
> GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU!
> Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in
> forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons!
> http://www.onelist.com/ad/gator1
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------