Shhhhhh!
2002-04-10 by mate_stubb
Boy, it sure is quiet on the list. A question for anyone who attended
AHMW: how were the new MOTM modules - 480, 125, etc?
Moe
AHMW: how were the new MOTM modules - 480, 125, etc?
Moe
Thread
Shhhhhh!
Re: [motm] Shhhhhh!
2002-04-10 by J. Larry Hendry
> ----- Original Message -----That must be my que since Crow and I were the only MOTMers at AHMW.
> From: mate_stubb <mate_stubb@...>
>
> Boy, it sure is quiet on the list. A question for
> anyone who attended AHMW: how were the
> new MOTM modules - 480, 125, etc?
480 filter = Exictingly bland, if that makes sense. The filter is not mean,
angry, or self-oscillating. Instead it is subtle and calm, like you might
want to have for classic OB and Yamaha brass sounds. It is a nice compliment
to the sounds of the filters that we have now in the MOTM system. If you
are into emulation of acoustic instruments you may really appreciate this
filter. One of the really cool features of the protype is the modular PCB
boards that plug into the main board. Old Crow did this to allow him to
easily swap op amps and such to compare and contrast the various sounds.
So, while I am not familiar with the filter it emulates, I can tell he has
spent a lot of effort toward acheiving that end. So, if you like the CS-80
filter, you are bound to appreciate this one.
125 pulse wave multiplier = unique. Being relatively new to modular use I
may have difficulty trying to explain this one. So, Crow, chime in if you
want to add / correct me in any way. The 125 is a multi-stage pulse wave
modulator. Let me see if I can explain. I will draw a line below
representing time vs modulation (over simple), but you can see how the PW
gets multiplied into something different.
regular PWM = -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
3rd output of 125 --+-+-+---+-+-+---+-+-+---+-+-+
Does that make sense? The second output can have two pulses grouped
together, the third output has 3. Kind of like (M inserted for modulating
sweeping sound) MMM skip MMM skip, etc. Crow says you can use it for
emulating the subtle attack of brass sounds. Personally, I would need to
spend a lot more time with it to fully grasp its potential.
Larry H
Re: [motm] Shhhhhh!
2002-04-10 by The Old Crow
On Wed, 10 Apr 2002, J. Larry Hendry wrote:
of both sections, but that requires both res. controls set to 10 *and*
some additional res. CV applied. This was the best way I could figure to
deal with the CS-50/60/80's individual res. controls and the 'global' res.
control ('global' control became the res. CV jack).
"instant gratification" module. You have to tweak it to find a 'sweet
spot'. Here is Anderton's article on his PWMult:
http://www.oldcrows.net/~oldcrow/schemos/CA-PWM_01.GIF
http://www.oldcrows.net/~oldcrow/schemos/CA-PWM_02.GIF
It is the attack phase of a string sound (not brass) that this sort of
module would assist: one can select a 'burst' of harmonics that dissipate
in a controlled order after the trigger arrives.
Also: Larry's Magic Buss is really nice. Takes one session with patch
cables to figure out. The cabinet Larry had built was made with the buss
in mind--I want several of these for myself.
Crow
/**/
> > Boy, it sure is quiet on the list. A question forI prefer the word 'subtle'. You can get a fair amount of resonance out
> > anyone who attended AHMW: how were the
> > new MOTM modules - 480, 125, etc?
> 480 filter = Exictingly bland, if that makes sense. The filter is not mean,
of both sections, but that requires both res. controls set to 10 *and*
some additional res. CV applied. This was the best way I could figure to
deal with the CS-50/60/80's individual res. controls and the 'global' res.
control ('global' control became the res. CV jack).
> 125 pulse wave multiplier = unique. Being relatively new to modular use IWhat I call the 125 (Paul may elect to use another number) is not an
"instant gratification" module. You have to tweak it to find a 'sweet
spot'. Here is Anderton's article on his PWMult:
http://www.oldcrows.net/~oldcrow/schemos/CA-PWM_01.GIF
http://www.oldcrows.net/~oldcrow/schemos/CA-PWM_02.GIF
It is the attack phase of a string sound (not brass) that this sort of
module would assist: one can select a 'burst' of harmonics that dissipate
in a controlled order after the trigger arrives.
Also: Larry's Magic Buss is really nice. Takes one session with patch
cables to figure out. The cabinet Larry had built was made with the buss
in mind--I want several of these for myself.
Crow
/**/
Re: [motm] Shhhhhh!
2002-04-10 by Paul Schreiber
> What I call the 125 (Paul may elect to use another number) is not anBTW: this is a "Anderton approved" MOTM module. I may jazz it up some as well.
> "instant gratification" module. You have to tweak it to find a 'sweet
> spot'. Here is Anderton's article on his PWMult:
>
Paul S.
Re: Shhhhhh!
2002-04-10 by mmarsh100
Can't wait for the 480. Subtle is nice!
The 125 sounds very intriguing, particularly after reading Craig
Anderton's article. I've been using Tony As WaveFolder to mangle VCO
waveforms for some time now and really like it. Another module for
these purposes sounds neat. Should be a simple build, too. 1U?
Mike
The 125 sounds very intriguing, particularly after reading Craig
Anderton's article. I've been using Tony As WaveFolder to mangle VCO
waveforms for some time now and really like it. Another module for
these purposes sounds neat. Should be a simple build, too. 1U?
Mike
Show quoted textHide quoted text
--- In motm@y..., The Old Crow <oldcrow@o...> wrote:
> On Wed, 10 Apr 2002, J. Larry Hendry wrote:
>
> > > Boy, it sure is quiet on the list. A question for
> > > anyone who attended AHMW: how were the
> > > new MOTM modules - 480, 125, etc?
>
> > 480 filter = Exictingly bland, if that makes sense. The filter
is not mean,
>
> I prefer the word 'subtle'. You can get a fair amount of
resonance out
> of both sections, but that requires both res. controls set to 10
*and*
> some additional res. CV applied. This was the best way I could
figure to
> deal with the CS-50/60/80's individual res. controls and
the 'global' res.
> control ('global' control became the res. CV jack).
>
> > 125 pulse wave multiplier = unique. Being relatively new to
modular use I
>
> What I call the 125 (Paul may elect to use another number) is not
an
> "instant gratification" module. You have to tweak it to find
a 'sweet
> spot'. Here is Anderton's article on his PWMult:
>
> http://www.oldcrows.net/~oldcrow/schemos/CA-PWM_01.GIF
> http://www.oldcrows.net/~oldcrow/schemos/CA-PWM_02.GIF
>
> It is the attack phase of a string sound (not brass) that this
sort of
> module would assist: one can select a 'burst' of harmonics that
dissipate
> in a controlled order after the trigger arrives.
>
> Also: Larry's Magic Buss is really nice. Takes one session with
patch
> cables to figure out. The cabinet Larry had built was made with
the buss
> in mind--I want several of these for myself.
>
>
> Crow
> /**/
Re: [motm] Shhhhhh!
2002-04-10 by Scott Juskiw
At 9:17 AM -0500 2002/04/10, Paul Schreiber wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> > What I call the 125 (Paul may elect to use another number) is not anI built one of these PWM circuits from the Anderton article back in
>> "instant gratification" module. You have to tweak it to find a 'sweet
>> spot'. Here is Anderton's article on his PWMult:
>>
>
>BTW: this is a "Anderton approved" MOTM module. I may jazz it up some as well.
>
>Paul S.
the early 80s and can attest it's utility. In addition to creating
_extreme_ pulse width modulation effects in the audio realm, it's
also great as a random gate generator (drive it with a slow LFO).
Both the time interval between gates and the gate high time can be
modulated under voltage control. I modified the circuit so it was DC
coupled throughout to get this capability (inputs and outputs both
working at +/- 5 V). I also modified the input circuitry so it had 7
knobs and 8 jacks:
K1 - xor A output shape (same as R5 on shemo)
K2 - xor B set point
K3 - xor B control signal level (reversing attenuator)
K4 - xor C set point
K5 - xor C control signal level (reversing attenuator)
K6 - xor D set point
K7 - xor D control signal level (reversing attenuator)
J1 - input signal
J2 - xor B control signal
J3 - xor C control signal
J4 - xor D control signal
J5 - xor A output signal
J6 - xor B output signal
J7 - xor C output signal
J8 - xor D output signal
Sounds like a 2U module. I'm looking forward to seeing an official
MOTM version of this circuit.
Re: [motm] Shhhhhh!
2002-04-10 by jwbarlow@aol.com
In a message dated 4/10/02 7:13:35 AM Pacific Daylight Time, oldcrow@... writes:
So this is a timbre modulator, and not the long awaited (three years?) VC pulse divider -- any idea where that one is in the new module queue?
> 125 pulse wave multiplier = unique. Being relatively new to modular use I
What I call the 125 (Paul may elect to use another number) is not an
"instant gratification" module. You have to tweak it to find a 'sweet
spot'. Here is Anderton's article on his PWMult:
http://www.oldcrows.net/~oldcrow/schemos/CA-PWM_01.GIF
http://www.oldcrows.net/~oldcrow/schemos/CA-PWM_02.GIF
It is the attack phase of a string sound (not brass) that this sort of
module would assist: one can select a 'burst' of harmonics that dissipate
in a controlled order after the trigger arrives.
So this is a timbre modulator, and not the long awaited (three years?) VC pulse divider -- any idea where that one is in the new module queue?
Show quoted textHide quoted text
Also: Larry's Magic Buss is really nice. Takes one session with patch
cables to figure out. The cabinet Larry had built was made with the buss
in mind--I want several of these for myself.
Hey Larry, any thoughts about actually making these available to the general public?
JB
Re: [motm] Shhhhhh!
2002-04-10 by George Kisslak
The 125 looks like one very cool module!
If I'm reading this correctly, it will convert a normal triangle wave from a
VCO into a square wave, and by modulating a CV input with say a triangle
from an LFO, will split each square wave cycle into a pulse train of 2, 3
then 4 pulses per cycle, then back to 3, 2 and then square again. This
would cause fairly drastic changes in timbre by adding and removing
harmonics from the output waveform. Actually, it would sound like adding a
2nd, then 3rd and finally 4th harmonic, then subtracting them back out in
reverse order, in cyclic fashion. Very cool. If an envelope generator were
used as the CV, then the initial waveform output could be made to include
the harmonics, and then decay them over time. Also very cool.
In typical MOTM style, maybe this circuit could be tricked up with one or
more of the following ideas:
1. Go all the way to the 8th (or 12th) harmonic - I guess that would
require 3 (or 6) more ICs and a few dozen resistors.
2. Add a waveshaping section to the output to possibly provide saw and/or
sine outputs (probably a lot of parts, though).
3. Provide an attenuator for each of the outputs - to control the amplitude
of each harmonic in the final output waveform.
Fun!!
George
If I'm reading this correctly, it will convert a normal triangle wave from a
VCO into a square wave, and by modulating a CV input with say a triangle
from an LFO, will split each square wave cycle into a pulse train of 2, 3
then 4 pulses per cycle, then back to 3, 2 and then square again. This
would cause fairly drastic changes in timbre by adding and removing
harmonics from the output waveform. Actually, it would sound like adding a
2nd, then 3rd and finally 4th harmonic, then subtracting them back out in
reverse order, in cyclic fashion. Very cool. If an envelope generator were
used as the CV, then the initial waveform output could be made to include
the harmonics, and then decay them over time. Also very cool.
In typical MOTM style, maybe this circuit could be tricked up with one or
more of the following ideas:
1. Go all the way to the 8th (or 12th) harmonic - I guess that would
require 3 (or 6) more ICs and a few dozen resistors.
2. Add a waveshaping section to the output to possibly provide saw and/or
sine outputs (probably a lot of parts, though).
3. Provide an attenuator for each of the outputs - to control the amplitude
of each harmonic in the final output waveform.
Fun!!
George
----- Original Message -----
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: The Old Crow <oldcrow@...>
To: MOTM List <motm@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2002 10:09 AM
Subject: Re: [motm] Shhhhhh!
> On Wed, 10 Apr 2002, J. Larry Hendry wrote:
>
> > > Boy, it sure is quiet on the list. A question for
> > > anyone who attended AHMW: how were the
> > > new MOTM modules - 480, 125, etc?
>
> > 480 filter = Exictingly bland, if that makes sense. The filter is not
mean,
>
> I prefer the word 'subtle'. You can get a fair amount of resonance out
> of both sections, but that requires both res. controls set to 10 *and*
> some additional res. CV applied. This was the best way I could figure to
> deal with the CS-50/60/80's individual res. controls and the 'global' res.
> control ('global' control became the res. CV jack).
>
> > 125 pulse wave multiplier = unique. Being relatively new to modular use
I
>
> What I call the 125 (Paul may elect to use another number) is not an
> "instant gratification" module. You have to tweak it to find a 'sweet
> spot'. Here is Anderton's article on his PWMult:
>
> http://www.oldcrows.net/~oldcrow/schemos/CA-PWM_01.GIF
> http://www.oldcrows.net/~oldcrow/schemos/CA-PWM_02.GIF
>
> It is the attack phase of a string sound (not brass) that this sort of
> module would assist: one can select a 'burst' of harmonics that dissipate
> in a controlled order after the trigger arrives.
>
> Also: Larry's Magic Buss is really nice. Takes one session with patch
> cables to figure out. The cabinet Larry had built was made with the buss
> in mind--I want several of these for myself.
>
>
> Crow
> /**/
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Re: [motm] Shhhhhh!
2002-04-10 by George Kisslak
(Sorry if this posts more than once - having problems with my email service
today...)
The 125 looks like one very cool module!
If I'm reading this correctly, it will convert a normal triangle wave from a
VCO into a square wave, and by modulating a CV input with say a triangle
from an LFO, will split each square wave cycle into a pulse train of 2, 3
then 4 pulses per cycle, then back to 3, 2 and then square again. This
would cause fairly drastic changes in timbre by adding and removing
harmonics from the output waveform. Actually, it would sound like adding a
2nd, then 3rd and finally 4th harmonic, then subtracting them back out in
reverse order, in cyclic fashion. Very cool. If an envelope generator were
used as the CV, then the initial waveform output could be made to include
the harmonics, and then decay them over time. Also very cool.
In typical MOTM style, maybe this circuit could be tricked up with one or
more of the following ideas:
1. Go all the way to the 8th (or 12th) harmonic - I guess that would
require 3 (or 6) more ICs and a few dozen resistors.
2. Add a waveshaping section to the output to possibly provide saw and/or
sine outputs (probably a lot of parts, though).
3. Provide an attenuator for each of the outputs - to control the amplitude
of each harmonic in the final output waveform.
Fun!!
George
today...)
The 125 looks like one very cool module!
If I'm reading this correctly, it will convert a normal triangle wave from a
VCO into a square wave, and by modulating a CV input with say a triangle
from an LFO, will split each square wave cycle into a pulse train of 2, 3
then 4 pulses per cycle, then back to 3, 2 and then square again. This
would cause fairly drastic changes in timbre by adding and removing
harmonics from the output waveform. Actually, it would sound like adding a
2nd, then 3rd and finally 4th harmonic, then subtracting them back out in
reverse order, in cyclic fashion. Very cool. If an envelope generator were
used as the CV, then the initial waveform output could be made to include
the harmonics, and then decay them over time. Also very cool.
In typical MOTM style, maybe this circuit could be tricked up with one or
more of the following ideas:
1. Go all the way to the 8th (or 12th) harmonic - I guess that would
require 3 (or 6) more ICs and a few dozen resistors.
2. Add a waveshaping section to the output to possibly provide saw and/or
sine outputs (probably a lot of parts, though).
3. Provide an attenuator for each of the outputs - to control the amplitude
of each harmonic in the final output waveform.
Fun!!
George
Re: [motm] Shhhhhh!
2002-04-10 by The Old Crow
On Wed, 10 Apr 2002 jwbarlow@... wrote:
tinker with on Saturday was getting gate sequences out of the module using
the sea of LFOs and EGs on Larry's rig. The 125 and the 390 almost seem
made for each other. The quad LFO would be a great complement too, when
it comes out.
The only trick I didn't try was to see what effect non-linear functions
would have. I was going to feed the miniwave a sawtooth and use the
lookup results to feed the 125. Oh well, next time.
Crow
/**/
> So this is a timbre modulator, and not the long awaited (three years?)Well, the 125 is more than a timbre modulator; The last thing I tried to
> VC pulse divider -- any idea where that one is in the new module queue?
tinker with on Saturday was getting gate sequences out of the module using
the sea of LFOs and EGs on Larry's rig. The 125 and the 390 almost seem
made for each other. The quad LFO would be a great complement too, when
it comes out.
The only trick I didn't try was to see what effect non-linear functions
would have. I was going to feed the miniwave a sawtooth and use the
lookup results to feed the 125. Oh well, next time.
Crow
/**/
Re: [motm] Shhhhhh!
2002-04-10 by George Kisslak
Two more "off the top of my head" ideas for the pulse width multiplier
module:
1) Add a pulse width control pot and PWM CV input for controlling the PW of
the square wave that is created from the input triangle wave. (I'm not
sure, but maybe this is similar to Scott J's gate-width and gate-high-time
modifications?) The idea would be to have PW modulation of the output
pulses, and therefore additional control over timbre.
2) Instead of supporting 8 (or 12) harmonics (i.e. pulse trains) in one
module, offer a "link" capability to other 125 modules to increase the
number of controllable harmonics.
Hopefully my ideas a) makes sense and b) are actually do-able. I figure
that even if I'm all wet, I will learn something; better to ask and fail
than to remain silent and ignorant. (I think!)
I also sincerely hope that I'm not stepping over any boundaries or on
anyone's fingers in my suggestions.
Humbly,
George
module:
1) Add a pulse width control pot and PWM CV input for controlling the PW of
the square wave that is created from the input triangle wave. (I'm not
sure, but maybe this is similar to Scott J's gate-width and gate-high-time
modifications?) The idea would be to have PW modulation of the output
pulses, and therefore additional control over timbre.
2) Instead of supporting 8 (or 12) harmonics (i.e. pulse trains) in one
module, offer a "link" capability to other 125 modules to increase the
number of controllable harmonics.
Hopefully my ideas a) makes sense and b) are actually do-able. I figure
that even if I'm all wet, I will learn something; better to ask and fail
than to remain silent and ignorant. (I think!)
I also sincerely hope that I'm not stepping over any boundaries or on
anyone's fingers in my suggestions.
Humbly,
George
Re: [motm] Shhhhhh!
2002-04-10 by The Old Crow
On Wed, 10 Apr 2002, George Kisslak wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> Two more "off the top of my head" ideas for the pulse width multiplierPW control pot already there. No space for 9th jack.
> module:
>
> 1) Add a pulse width control pot and PWM CV input for controlling the PW of
> the square wave that is created from the input triangle wave. (I'm not
> sure, but maybe this is similar to Scott J's gate-width and gate-high-time
> modifications?) The idea would be to have PW modulation of the output
> pulses, and therefore additional control over timbre.
Crow
/**/