MOTM

I guess my setup is similar to what many of you are doing, so just take
it as another example for a working combination:

Korg Electribe-S drum machine as master clock (Midi),
Frostwave Fat Contoller sequencer to convert Midi clock to analogue Gate
(which then is used as an analog master clock for the whole studio).
Digital delay (TC Electronic D-Two - awsome delay !) also sync'ed
to Midi Clock.

I also tried the Blacet chip, and it works very well, too. I wanted to put
it inside a "master clock" module, together with some S&H stuff.
This is postponed because the Frostwave also has a handfull of
divider ratios built in already, easily to be altered on the fly when
the sequencer is running.

My initial idea of building an analog sync (PLL) for a BBD delay
is probably postponed for ever, since I got the D-Two. (;->)
(I still use the wonderful Dynacord BBD delays, but the D-Two
is doing most of the bread and butter stuff nowadays.)

This Garfield box - didn't it extract a clock from intelligent processing
of audio signals ? Or was this a different box from the 80's ?

JH.


mark@... schrieb: 

> >I've long wanted to build a Master Clock box to let me run all my
> >sequencers and arpeggiators from one source.
> 
> Would that be any different than choosing one of the clock sources you
> already have??  If you use MIDI, SMPTE, or use a digital multitrack, that
> should be the master.
> 
> >It would need to have a very stable clock (20bpm-200bpm) with various
> >outputs ie. clock/2, clock/4, clock/8. It would also have negative
> >and positive going triggers, gates and a few inverters.
> >
> >I recall that in the 70's there was a device like this called Doctor
> >Click.
> >
> >Does anyone have schematics or ideas for building such a beast?
> 
> I have a Garfield Dr. Click.  It was made in the early 80's.  It does what
> you say and more, however I usually slave it to the Sync24 or arpeggiator
> clock output of my Kenton Pro4.  I don't have the schematics, but even if I
> did, there would be no way you want to clone it!!  It has several massive
> PCB's filled with _hundreds_ of chips.
> 
> Afaik, Blacet sells a chip that extracts MIDI beat clock, and it is not
> difficult to build circuits that divide by even numbers.  I would do a web
> search, and look at the application notes for CMOS 4013, 4018, 4040, 4047;
> 7474, and the 555 timer.  Pay attention to pulse width -- not all divider
> circuits work the same way.  You should also be able to find a number of
> gate and trigger circuits at the various synth sites.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

At 3:52 PM +0000 01/11/02, jhaible@... wrote:
>
>I guess my setup is similar to what many of you are doing, so just take
>it as another example for a working combination:
>
>Korg Electribe-S drum machine as master clock (Midi),

Really??  I would have never guessed you used gear like that!!

>Frostwave Fat Contoller sequencer to convert Midi clock to analogue Gate
>(which then is used as an analog master clock for the whole studio).
>Digital delay (TC Electronic D-Two - awsome delay !) also sync'ed
>to Midi Clock.

I like those too, but I've made a decision not to invest in any more
digital gear, or at least not new digital gear.  It's like setting money on
fire.

>I also tried the Blacet chip, and it works very well, too. I wanted to put
>it inside a "master clock" module, together with some S&H stuff.
>This is postponed because the Frostwave also has a handfull of
>divider ratios built in already, easily to be altered on the fly when
>the sequencer is running.
>
>My initial idea of building an analog sync (PLL) for a BBD delay
>is probably postponed for ever, since I got the D-Two. (;->)
>(I still use the wonderful Dynacord BBD delays, but the D-Two
>is doing most of the bread and butter stuff nowadays.)

Was that your idea?? :)  I don't have a Dynacord, but the BBD delays I do
have can make sounds I cannot reproduce using digital.  In fact, I can get
sounds out of the Korg SDD-2000 that cannot get out of any of my other
digital delays.  I believe the difference is that the SDD-2000 changes the
sample rate rather than the length of RAM in order to change the delay
time, just like a BBD.  For another example, the filters in the Lexicon
tape delay emulations are very good, but it just doesn't sound the same as
the reel thing.

I like the idea of a PLL synced BBD delay, but I don't know what math would
be required so that ratio between the input clock and clock driving the BBD
would result in a musical relationship such as a quarter note.

>This Garfield box - didn't it extract a clock from intelligent processing
>of audio signals ? Or was this a different box from the 80's ?

It has masking and threshold controls to extract a clock from a human
drummer or click track.  It has timing, comparator, and basic logic
functions, and a "memory" feature that can record up to a 1,000 beats.
While it probably was fairly sophisticated for its time, I'm not sure what
you mean by "intelligent processing".

mark@... schrieb: 
> >Yes, a pulse divider and a MOTM-440 filter will be a very useful tool
> >to create analog bass drum and tom sounds.
> >I was very "anti drum machine" in the past, mostly because I'm not
> >good at programming drum patterns, and I'm not very skilled to record
> >drums by hitting pads either.
> 
> Frankly, I don't think the two have much to do with each other.

He he, right, but I'm not good at either one. (;->) So I had to find my
own methods.


>  When I
> first got into electronic music, I wondered out loud whether or not I would
> be good at drum programming.  I was told, "of course you could program
> drums you can play drums!" 

Very true. When I was young, and could not play a chord on the keyboard,
I thought electonic drums were the easier stuff. Quite ridiculous, in retrospect.
Now I know my limitations, and work on them where it looks hopeful, and
avoid the stuff where I'm helpless. At least I try. (;->)

> Never underestimate the power of a good flam.  Listen to Bruford's
> 5/5 on Larks Toungues in Aspic -

Absolutely awesome. I've become a big fan of King Crimson in recent
years, got  most of these Collector's Club CDs with their (legalized
and remastered) bootlegs. Some of the most amazing music I've heard.
Gentle Giant is another favorite band of mine. Time signatures of
"So Sincere" and "Cogs in Cogs" - big fun to listen to. No way to program such
 stuff on a machine.
 
> >So for my first CD (that was around 1998)
> >I used a very simple clock source (basically extracted the beat from a
> >pre-recorded bass line with an envelope generator module - *not*
> >envelope follower, but this is another story), a 8-step sequencer
> >and a VC-divider.
> 
> Was this a Serge module, did you build it yourself, or is this a stupid
> question?? :)

I built it myself. It was inspired by the verbal description of the Serge
catalog back then. (I've never seen the original circuit.) I have
published my version of the circuit some years ago, it's at
http://home.debitel.net/user/jhaible/additional_schemos.html
(look for "voltage controlled divide-by-N".)


> >Tweaking the divider factor with one
> >hand, and the cutoff frequency of a SSM2040 filter with high resonance
> >with the other hand, I got my drum track in real time.
> 
> I don't think I understand what the 8-step sequencer did in this setup --
> was that to control the pitch of of the filter (high tom, low tom kick,
> etc.)??  Although the system you describe is oddly innovative, it is still
> simple, immediate and tactile.  That's what you want!! :)

Hmm, it's hard to recall everything, because the work with the modular
is always quite spontaneous. I've extracted the beat froma bass line with
a VC AD envelope generator and distributed this clock to the VC divider,
8-step-sequencer, VariLogic module, and from there to the filter inputs
(and to arpeggiator clock inputs and so on), but I don't know if it was in
a serial connection or whatever. Basic line is that the sequencer (with
a dedicated row of switches for Gate On / Gate Off (Rest) / Reset allow
to program a regular pattern of trigger signals to start with, and then
I can always remove individual pulses with the switches (rest), shorten the
sequence with the same switches (reset), and this setting will be repeated
until I make another change. Alternatively, I can fill in an extra beat
by momentarily increasing the VC Divider factor and then returning to the
previous setting. All kinds of stuff like that.
There's a description from 1998 (when I made the CD) at
http://home.debitel.net/user/jhaible/hj_cd1.html
You will even find mp3 samples here, but be warned, this is no way
adventurous "Bruford" stuff - it's more on the Jean Michel Jarre drum machine
side. (Just to not disappoint you.) 


> >D-Two. (Ok, I would probably not sell my Roland RE-201.)
> 
> Does it do a reverse delay?? 

I don't know. Maybe. Probably. I must admit that I've never tried it.


> Let's hope not!!!  While the dollar here seems fairly stable, I know what
> you mean.  Business is business.  I wish Paul all the best with his NAMM
> show and these new micro-modules.  Even though I have little interest in
> them myself personally, I'm all for the micro series if it is good for the
> company.  I know I frequently complain about modules that haven't come out
> yet, but it would be far worse if Synthesis Technology went out of business
> entirely. 

I don't see any reason to fear this. I think it's doing fine, and much better than 
anybody had expected.

JH.

At 5:47 PM +0000 01/18/02, jhaible@... wrote:
>
>Very true. When I was young, and could not play a chord on the keyboard,
>I thought electonic drums were the easier stuff. Quite ridiculous, in
>>retrospect. Now I know my limitations, and work on them where it looks
>>hopeful, and avoid the stuff where I'm helpless. At least I try. (;->)

If it's any consolation, I can't play chords to save my life, well, at
least not without a harmonica :)

>Absolutely awesome. I've become a big fan of King Crimson in recent
>years, got  most of these Collector's Club CDs with their (legalized
>and remastered) bootlegs. Some of the most amazing music I've heard.

I should listen to King Crimson more often.  All of my King Crimson is on
vinyl, and I'm fortunate to have the vastly superior Japanese pressings of
most of their albums, which imho, sound better than cd (no, I'm not trying
to revive that argument :)  FWIW, my belt drive turntable (Ariston Enigma)
is boxed up, and I am reluctant to play them on my 1200.

>Gentle Giant is another favorite band of mine. Time signatures of
>"So Sincere" and "Cogs in Cogs" - big fun to listen to. No way to program
>>such stuff on a machine.

You're absolutely right, there isn't, and with gigahertz computers now
available, I have to wonder why.

>I built it myself. It was inspired by the verbal description of the Serge
>catalog back then. (I've never seen the original circuit.) I have
>published my version of the circuit some years ago, it's at
>http://home.debitel.net/user/jhaible/additional_schemos.html
>(look for "voltage controlled divide-by-N".)

That looks quite imaginative!!  I'm having a bit of trouble understanding
how the "staircase" generator works.  However, I do understand how its
amplitude increases by one "stair" for each input pulse until it reaches
the threshold of the comparator.  It also seems to divide by 2N rather than
N, but it's quite likely I'm misreading something.

>Basic line is that the sequencer (with a dedicated row of switches for
>Gate On / Gate Off (Rest) / Reset allow to program a regular pattern of
>>trigger signals to start with

A gate sequencer might make a nice addition to the MOTM system.

>There's a description from 1998 (when I made the CD) at
>http://home.debitel.net/user/jhaible/hj_cd1.html
>You will even find mp3 samples here, but be warned, this is no way
>adventurous "Bruford" stuff - it's more on the Jean Michel Jarre drum
>>machine side. (Just to not disappoint you.)

Well, there is no way to do "Bruford" stuff with a drum machine.

>>it would be far worse if Synthesis Technology went out of
>>business entirely.
>
>I don't see any reason to fear this. I think it's doing fine, and much
>>better than anybody had expected.

That's reassuring to hear, and I didn't mean to imply otherwise!!