MOTM

OK,  I Look at the sequencer and wonder, "How the hell did anyone think of
such features."  I came to the conclusion that experience of using one has
to be the answer.  And, I have zero experience using an analog pattern
sequencer like this.  I have some experience using digital sequencers for
adding tracks to a live gig when 2 hands were not enough, or for just using
as a notebook during the creative process.

Now, I can see obviously how it would be nice to have a repeating pattern in
a tune, or how it would be cool to be able to hit a certain  key, or pedal
or ? and get a once shot sequence each time.  That would be a cool thing for
live.  So, like others, I am interested in a sequencer.  I would very much
enjoy a thread about how each person in particular might use a sequencer,
and how certain features that they have come to depend on work in this
sequencer.  I'll start with my very limited knowledge and ask anyone and
everyone to correct me as needed.

CV outs:
It seems my basic sequence would need to have at least 2 but better yet 3 or
4 CVs so that multiple oscillators could change tuning relationship through
the sequence.  As I think about how this "might work" I see two "modes" that
make sense.
Mode 1:  One CV knob for each CV in each step and one knob does not effect
the other.  If you return one of the CV knobs feeding one oscillator during
the run time, the other oscillators do not change.
Mode 2:  One CV knob is a master and the others are slaves.  So knob 1,
effects the output of all CVs at that step and the other knobs, 2, (and
possibly) 3, 4  effect the tunes relationships between oscillators.  Maybe
mode 2 would not be useful.  But, it seems with stacking oscillators, it
might be easier to change patterns on the fly with multiple oscillators.

# of steps:
I'm not sure 8 is right,  Can a sequencer be flexible enough to recycle or
quit at any point along the chain?  How about 12 or 10 or 7 ??

Quantizing:
I assume this would be essential.  Is this a feature one would expect inside
the sequencer or as another external module?  I assume if internal, you
would want to be able to switch it on and off as some voltages (maybe
controlling other things from oscillators) you would not want to be
quantized.

Timing:
I would think you would want to be able to use an internal or external
clock.  But, if using an internal clock, would the "time" of each step be a
quantity fixed as one division of the total sequence?  Or would the time of
each sequence be adjustable (like on Tony K's UEG?  It seems to me that a 12
step pattern where each step got 1/12 of the time might be OK for some
things and not for others.

I am not starting this thread to be a " list all the features we all want in
the mother of all sequencers."  But rather, I would appreciate hearing from
some of the guys on this list that I know have a lot to share about their
experience with sequencers and what features they use and depend on.

Sequentially challenged
Stooge Larry

----- Original Message -----
From: <mate_stubb@...>
To: <motm@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 02, 2001 3:44 PM
Subject: [motm] RE: Check out Big Dave's DIY Design again


> Just how nuts would it be to DIY and build this
> thing Dave? PCB's? Not that you would ever even be
> willing, or offering, just curious ;)
>

Reasonably nutty.
<<snip>>
Not to mention pcbs, parts, labor, etc. You would have to charge
$800 - $900 minimum to build one for somebody.

Moe

Larry,

This is a good thread to start and I'm always interested in learning new ways to use
modular gear.  One common mistake I see from your inital description is the thinking
that sequencers are most useful for controlling the pitch of oscillators.  While it
is a great use and it forces you into different melodic structures than you might
develop with your own keyboard or primary controller technique, it is selling the
potential of a sequencer short.  One of my favorite uses of sequencers is to provide
a controlled set of "random variables".  I'll step the sequencer with whatever is
triggering notes (keyboard gate, MIDI clock, etc.) and use the CVs coming from the
sequencer to drive modulations or just to add some variation to the VCF Fc.

Another use for sequencers is as an interactive trigger sequencer.  Use the knobs to
select which clocks trigger events (0 CV is a rest, a CV higher than the gate value
is a note).

Great fun and chaos can be had by taking a sequencer row and using it to modulate
the sequencer clock frequency or other recursive/regenerative parameters of the
sequence.

There are also sequencers like the Serge TKB that allow you to "play" them by
pressing the touch plates causing the sequence to change, reset, or change
direction.  The TKB has the added feature of pressure sensitivity on the plates for
even more interactivity with the sequencer.

So, if you want something to provide quantized voltages for driving oscillators, get
a Doepfer MAQ 16/3 or a Frostwave Fat Controller, although they can do more.  If you
want to go beyond, think of getting more access to the steps, clocks, and rows of an
analog sequencer...

Sequentially Yours,
   Eric


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> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: Tkacs, Ken <ken.tkacs@...>
<<snip>>
> voltage control of duration! If you use a VCO as a
> clock, you can feed one of the CV ranks to control
> that VCO's pitch. 

LH:  Cool Ken.  I never would have thought about that.
It would almost seem like a waste of a good full featured
VCO.  So, a basic VCO built in for VC clock might be
a good idea.

> # of Steps: As stated above, each stage gets it's own
> gate out jack. There is usually also some sort of "Master
> Reset" input jack that, when tripped high, restarts the
> count at "Zero" or stage-1 of the sequencer.

OK.  That makes sense.  But, it bring up another question.
Other than controlling the number of steps, why do I want
or need individual gate outs?

Thanks,
Larry H

----- Original Message ----- 

From: alt-mode <alt_mode@...>
This is a good thread to start and I'm always
interested in learning new ways to use modular
gear.  

LH:  when it comes to sequencers, I have a LOT
to learn, because I have never used antyhing other
that the digital stuff.

>> One common mistake I see from your inital
description is the thinking that sequencers are 
most useful for controlling the pitch of oscillators. 
,,snip..
 One of my favorite uses of sequencers is to provide
a controlled set of "random variables".  I'll step the 
sequencer with whatever is triggering notes (keyboard
gate, MIDI clock, etc.) and use the CVs coming from 
the sequencer to drive modulations or just to add some
variation to the VCF Fc.

LH: 
Oh, I see.  My problem is I have no "outside of the box"
thinking on the subject.  That is why I started the thread.
Thanks Eric.

Larry

You may want an EG to fire only at specfic steps in your sequence, 
not on every step.

At 8:32 PM -0500 2/9/01, J. Larry Hendry wrote:

>OK.  That makes sense.  But, it bring up another question.
>Other than controlling the number of steps, why do I want
>or need individual gate outs?
>

-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Scott Juskiw 
scott@...

At 5:28 PM -0500 09/02/01, J. Larry Hendry wrote:
>
>CV outs:
>It seems my basic sequence would need to have at least 2 but better yet 3
>>or 4 CVs so that multiple oscillators could change tuning relationship
>>through the sequence.

Four CV outputs is good -- that way it can be used with double the steps
and half the channels (16*2).

Also, CV outputs are useful for more than the pitch of the VCO's.  They can
be used with PWM, filters, VCA's, waveshapers, LFO's, etc.  You know, about
half the 1/4" holes in your modular :)  One could also be used to control
the rate of the clock driving the sequencer.

># of steps:
>I'm not sure 8 is right,  Can a sequencer be flexible enough to recycle or
>quit at any point along the chain?  How about 12 or 10 or 7 ??

I like the idea of combining a step sequencer with a gate sequencer into
one unit -- ie. having a gate output for each step.  I believe the Wiard
sequencer does this.  By adding a reset jack, patching the gate output from
that step brings the sequencer back to the beginning.

Also, having gate outputs allows one to compose a bassline and a basic
drumbeat on the same sequencer.  Of course, one could also drive a step
sequencer and a gate sequencer from the same clock

>Quantizing:
>I assume this would be essential.  Is this a feature one would expect
>>inside the sequencer or as another external module?  I assume if
>internal, >you would want to be able to switch it on and off as some
>voltages (maybe
>controlling other things from oscillators) you would not want to be
>quantized.

Yes, and for composing in different scales.

>Timing:
>I would think you would want to be able to use an internal or external
>clock.

Yes, the internal clock should have an output to drive other gear, and it
should have an input for an external clock so it can be slaved to MIDI,
SMPTE, etc.

>But, if using an internal clock, would the "time" of each step be a
>quantity fixed as one division of the total sequence?  Or would the time of
>each sequence be adjustable (like on Tony K's UEG?  It seems to me that a
>>12 step pattern where each step got 1/12 of the time might be OK for some
>things and not for others.

The UEG ignores the value of the time knobs and TCV when in step mode
(which is why I built that differentiator to trigger converter to use it in
loop mode).  Ideally, one would want a time knob that can be used with an
external clock.

Most hardware sequencers consider each step a "quarter note" and advance
each step after a fixed number of pulses per quarter note, eg. if I
remember correctly Linn used 96 ppq, Korg used 48 ppq, Roland used 24 pqn,
and so on.  It's my understanding that almost all modular sequencers use 1
pulse per step so that the same clock can also trigger an envelope.

My idea is to add a knob to each step that ignores a number of pulses based
on that knob's setting, such that:

knob setting:     result:
0                 skips that step
1                 normal, holds for one step
2                 holds for two steps
3                 holds for three steps
4                 holds for four steps
etc.

In addition to holding the current CV value, it would hold back a gate or
trigger output, thereby allowing one to compose notes of almost any length.

While a rotary switch would work well for this, one could use a pot, or
even add a CV input that effects the current stage.

You'll also note that setting all the knobs to zero after a certain step
changes the overall length of the sequencer.

--- In motm@y..., "J. Larry Hendry" <jlarryh@i...> wrote:
> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > From: Tkacs, Ken <ken.tkacs@j...>
> <<snip>>
> > voltage control of duration! If you use a VCO as a
> > clock, you can feed one of the CV ranks to control
> > that VCO's pitch. 
> 
> LH:  Cool Ken.  I never would have thought about that.
> It would almost seem like a waste of a good full featured
> VCO.  So, a basic VCO built in for VC clock might be
> a good idea.

... the perfect use for an MOTM-310, since you only need the square 
output to trigger the sequencer!
 
> > # of Steps: As stated above, each stage gets it's own
> > gate out jack. There is usually also some sort of "Master
> > Reset" input jack that, when tripped high, restarts the
> > count at "Zero" or stage-1 of the sequencer.
> 
> OK.  That makes sense.  But, it bring up another question.
> Other than controlling the number of steps, why do I want
> or need individual gate outs?

For creating rhythmic patterns.  For instance, in an 8-step sequence, 
the individual gate outputs for steps 2 & 6 could be summed to 
trigger one type of sound, and the outs for steps 4 & 8 could each go 
to different sound #s 2 & 3.  Sort of like drum machine sequencing.  
Some sequencers (AS Oberkorn, for instance) have gate 
output "busses", where you can route the gates from several steps to 
a single gate output (instead of requiring external summing as in the 
example above).  If you have enough steps (say, 16), you can get some 
interesting syncopation going on.

Or, say, to trigger an envelope that may affect the sound over the 
course of several steps.  In another 8-step sequence, you could use 
the gate out for step 5 to trigger an EG that filter-sweeps through 
steps 5-7 of the sequence (if you set the EG stage times to correctly 
match the clock driving the sequencer).

There are plenty of other uses for individual gate outputs; this is 
only scratching the surface ...

    -Doug
     jasret@...