MOTM

This is a question in the most general sense but, of course, it can 
be applied to some MOTM stuff (and Oakley, and FutureRetro, and 
Frostwave, and Studio Electronics and and and) too...

How do people get away with manufacturing - or if not manufacturing 
providing schematics for - filter, oscillator, effects, etc. clones?

Are things like filter designs patent-able?  Have the patents to 
filters like the MS-20, TB-303, etc. run out and are therefore open 
game?  Do the manufacturers not pursue it since these designs are no 
longer in production?

I'm sure $$ is a limiting factor in pursuing these things and so a 
boutique designer might decide it's not worth the hassle but I would 
think cost for someone like Korg, Roland, Yamaha wouldn't be a factor 
(to an extent).

Just curious.

JP

Patents are good for 17 years from date of grant (for these. New laws are
different). If there is no patent,
you can 'steal' it. The Moog filter patent was used very successfully
against ARP, SSM (the 2040 chip)
and others.

Since most of these circuits date from the early to mid-70s, the patents
have long expired.

Patents are very interesting. I spent 4 years at Tandy on both the offensive
and defensive ends of patent
litigation (I myself have 9 patents). Patents are scorned only by those that
don't have them :)

True, there are MANY MANY patents that should have never been granted. In
past years, it was almost impossible to
get a patent revoked. Now, with computer searches and 40GB hard drives, you
can get them tossed out. There is
a website somewhere that actually pays serious 'bounties' (like $25,000
cash) if you get certain patents tossed out.

What people forget is how fast technology moves, and how quickly we forget
the state of technology 17 years ago.
Reading patents still valid (say, granted in 1986) seem like total jokes,
because in many cases in TODAY'S world
such-and-such technology is $10 at Wal Mart. But NOT BACK THEN. It's the
BACK THEN that people get all upset over.

Paul S.

Interesting...

Are patents renewable? 

I understand what you're saying about the technology used in 
something like the MS-20 filter being far from state of the art today 
but high-tech/low-tech it's still got a great unique sound.

Electro-Harmonix is a good example, they've probably got stuff built 
more or less exactly as it was 20 years ago.  So, there's nothing 
stopping someone from creating a Big Muff Pi clone and selling that 
even though EH is still selling them today - right?  I'm sure you 
can't use the Electro-Harmonix or the Big Muff Pi name - but other 
than that?

I guess 17 years is plenty to milk the cow, though.

On Tuesday, June 26, 2001, at 12:28 PM, jpotter@... wrote:

> Interesting...
>
> Are patents renewable?
>
Nope. You've got to remember that patents are basically a government-
granted temporary monopoly for the common good. You're granted the
monopoly in order to get you to share your invention for the good of
everybody. You get X years to profit exclusively from it and in return
the public gets it after that.

A permanent patent would defeat the purpose. Copyright exists for similar
reasons. Though Disney seems to be able to circumvent this reasoning,
hence, the next time the Mickey Mouse copyright is about to expire we'll
probably see yet another extension to copyright.

> I guess 17 years is plenty to milk the cow, though.
>
As the founding fathers intended.

Tomy

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