MOTM

Yeah, that's what I'm describing. Except that you would have enough control
over the angle of that second "D" to be able to set it to "infinite"
(Sustain) if you wanted to.

-----Original Message-----
From: mate_stubb@...
To: motm@yahoogroups.com
Sent: 3/31/01 11:27 PM
Subject: Re: FW: [motm] Super VC DADSR EG

Err, pardon me, but isn't it a fact that there is NO sustain level in 
the struck bar scenario you mention below? Sustain by nature is, well 
sustain. Sounds like what you want is ADDR or something.

Moe

My Chroma has an EG setup that is simple, but flexible enough to do 
what you describe.

Basically, it has no ADSRs, but instead 4 ADRs. The Decay can be set 
to infinite to give you an ASR. You apply 2 EGs to the same VCA or 
VCF to get complex envelopes. The sustain level (if set to ASR) is 
controlled by the CV amount applied to the target. I have some 
effective analog piano patches which use 2 EGs with fast attack, one 
with fast decay and no release to do the attack transient, the other 
with slow decay and short release to do the body envelope. The 
attack, decay, and release time are modulation destinations. There is 
also a facility for a velocity switch level, which allows EGs to be 
set to turn on or off above/below a threshold. Pretty advanced for 
its day.

Instead of a big complex module, maybe this would be a more useful 
model for a modular - a 1U VC ADR/ASR that you can gang for more 
complex stuff.

Hey oldtimers - remember when we hashed out our 1U EG designs a year 
or more ago? I still have 2 or 3 panel mockups of the results.

Moe

--- In motm@y..., "Tkacs, Ken" <ken.tkacs@j...> wrote:
> Yeah, that's what I'm describing. Except that you would have enough 
control
> over the angle of that second "D" to be able to set it to "infinite"
> (Sustain) if you wanted to.
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: mate_stubb@y...
> To: motm@y...
> Sent: 3/31/01 11:27 PM
> Subject: Re: FW: [motm] Super VC DADSR EG
> 
> Err, pardon me, but isn't it a fact that there is NO sustain level 
in 
> the struck bar scenario you mention below? Sustain by nature is, 
well 

> sustain. Sounds like what you want is ADDR or something.
> 
> Moe

In a message dated 4/1/2001 11:34:11 AM, mate_stubb@... writes:

>Instead of a big complex module, maybe this would be a more useful 
>model for a modular - a 1U VC ADR/ASR that you can gang for more 
>complex stuff.

Or dual AD/AR units -- doesn't that sound familiar. But I still find the VC 
inputs to an EG to be very useful so these modules wouldn't address that.

>Hey oldtimers - remember when we hashed out our 1U EG designs a year 
>or more ago? I still have 2 or 3 panel mockups of the results.

I don't remember this, maybe you can pass it along. Any thoughts on a MOTM 
style panel for the Blacet EG since they will be available sometime soon?
JB

If anybody wants to see the results of the list discussion from last 
year about 1U EGs, I have three panel mockups uploaded.

All three feature a ADR/ASR mode switch.

The first one has unattenuated A and R VC inputs, plus an attenuated 
input for simultaneous VC of both A and R.

http://motm.retrosynth.com/moe_stuff/future_motm/m810.jpg

The second drops the simultaneous AR VC controls for the addition of 
an END jack to facilitate chaining or LFO behavior.

http://motm.retrosynth.com/moe_stuff/future_motm/m810r2.jpg

The third one replaces the AR VC controls with a gate delay and CV 
input.

http://motm.retrosynth.com/moe_stuff/future_motm/m810r3.jpg

Actually, having your choice of all three would be very useful.

Moe

--- In motm@y..., jwbarlow@a... wrote:
> >Hey oldtimers - remember when we hashed out our 1U EG designs a 
year 
> >or more ago? I still have 2 or 3 panel mockups of the results.
> 
> I don't remember this, maybe you can pass it along. Any thoughts on 
a MOTM 
> style panel for the Blacet EG since they will be available sometime 
soon?
> JB

No manual trigger buttons.  Would those be included on the gate/trigger
delays???

What controls would the gate trigger delays have???

Gate/Trigger In Jack
Gate/Trigger Out Jack
Gate/Trigger Inverted Out Jack or Gate/Trig Reversible Attenuator Knob
Gate/Trigger In LED
Gate/Trigger Out LED
Delay Pot/Knot
VC Delay Jack

Anything else?

--Shemp

> -----Original Message-----
> From: mate_stubb@... [mailto:mate_stubb@...]
> Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2001 7:13 PM
> To: motm@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: FW: FW: [motm] Super VC DADSR EG
>
>
>
> If anybody wants to see the results of the list discussion from last
> year about 1U EGs, I have three panel mockups uploaded.
>
> All three feature a ADR/ASR mode switch.
>
> The first one has unattenuated A and R VC inputs, plus an attenuated
> input for simultaneous VC of both A and R.
>
> http://motm.retrosynth.com/moe_stuff/future_motm/m810.jpg
>
> The second drops the simultaneous AR VC controls for the addition of
> an END jack to facilitate chaining or LFO behavior.
>
> http://motm.retrosynth.com/moe_stuff/future_motm/m810r2.jpg
>
> The third one replaces the AR VC controls with a gate delay and CV
> input.
>
> http://motm.retrosynth.com/moe_stuff/future_motm/m810r3.jpg
>
> Actually, having your choice of all three would be very useful.
>
> Moe
>
> --- In motm@y..., jwbarlow@a... wrote:
> > >Hey oldtimers - remember when we hashed out our 1U EG designs a
> year
> > >or more ago? I still have 2 or 3 panel mockups of the results.
> >
> > I don't remember this, maybe you can pass it along. Any thoughts on
> a MOTM
> > style panel for the Blacet EG since they will be available sometime
> soon?
> > JB
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

Has anybody considered the Yamaha CS approach ?
Sustain is always "in the middle" (zero), and you have two
individual sliders for positive (Attack-Decay) and negative
(Attack-Release) amount. Excellent for VCFs, once you get
used to it. Unfortunately not so usefull for VCAs ...

JH.


-----Urspr\ufffdngliche Nachricht-----
Von: Tkacs, Ken <ken.tkacs@...>
An: <motm@yahoogroups.com>
Gesendet: Sonntag, 1. April 2001 21:22
Betreff: FW: FW: FW: [motm] Super VC DADSR EG

> That Chroma setup does sound pretty cool.
>
> Maybe a VC AR in combination with the satnddard ADSR we have would do the
> job, be a bit cheaper, and fit on a 1u panel.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: mate_stubb@...
> To: motm@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: 4/1/01 3:05 PM
> Subject: Re: FW: FW: [motm] Super VC DADSR EG
>
> My Chroma has an EG setup that is simple, but flexible enough to do
> what you describe.
>
> Basically, it has no ADSRs, but instead 4 ADRs. The Decay can be set
> to infinite to give you an ASR. You apply 2 EGs to the same VCA or
> VCF to get complex envelopes. The sustain level (if set to ASR) is
> controlled by the CV amount applied to the target. I have some
> effective analog piano patches which use 2 EGs with fast attack, one
> with fast decay and no release to do the attack transient, the other
> with slow decay and short release to do the body envelope. The
> attack, decay, and release time are modulation destinations. There is
> also a facility for a velocity switch level, which allows EGs to be
> set to turn on or off above/below a threshold. Pretty advanced for
> its day.
>
> Instead of a big complex module, maybe this would be a more useful
> model for a modular - a 1U VC ADR/ASR that you can gang for more
> complex stuff.
>
> Hey oldtimers - remember when we hashed out our 1U EG designs a year
> or more ago? I still have 2 or 3 panel mockups of the results.
>
> Moe
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

----- Original Message ----- 
From: Hugo Haesaert <hugo.haesaert@...>
 vco pitch (anybody familiar with the CS15 key pitch eg?)

Huh??  Something I am overlooking on my CS-15?

Larry H

--- In motm@y..., "J. Larry Hendry" <jlarryh@i...> wrote:
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: Hugo Haesaert <hugo.haesaert@s...>
>  vco pitch (anybody familiar with the CS15 key pitch eg?)
> 
> Huh??  Something I am overlooking on my CS-15?

There's one on the CS-40M (AR EG dedicated to the VCO ... there are 
also AR EG's hardwired to the LFO and Ring Modulator freq, in 
addition to the ADSR EG's for VCF & VCA - now THAT's a synth with 
sufficient number of envelope generators, especially since most of 
them can go either + or -).  The CS-15D (the one with presets, not 
the "plain" CS-15) doesn't have one (VCO EG), though.  I'm not sure 
about the "plain" CS-15.

    -Doug
     ceres@...

Hi Juergen n All !

That must be on the bigger cs synths :  cs50,60 etc  

But sustain "in the middle" is what i meant by "let's have outputs 
biased around sustain" ...  both outputs can be easily provided . (if 
there's space for the jacks :) )

Come to think about it, those "split attenuators" would be a great 
addition, limiting the range in this way .  More possibilities than a 
simple input attenuator .  It would have to be incorporated in the 
module itself, no ?  Hmm, i'd like to see a schematic for this .

As you say, this is useful only where negative and positive 
modulation can be used around a set point .  VCA is not one of those 
(except for drones maybe), vco pitch (anybody familiar with the CS15 
key pitch eg?), pwm, vcf freq, and resonance are, and possibly more .

btw, i had the impression this was not about 1u eg's .  We got one 
... ;^P

Bye for now .


Keep 'em oscillating :)


Hugo
=

> That must be on the bigger cs synths :  cs50,60 etc
>
> But sustain "in the middle" is what i meant by "let's have outputs
> biased around sustain" ...  both outputs can be easily provided . (if
> there's space for the jacks :) )

Korg had an ordinary HADSR in the MS-20 that had a normal output
(hard wired to VCA) and a "Sustain biased" output (patchable). This
is easy to implement (subtract sustain value), but *not* the same
as in the Yamaha synths.
In the Korg version, decreasing the Modulation Amount means decreasing
both AD and AR parts. And decreasing Sustain meains increasing AD
and decreasing AR.
In the Yamaha version, you can alter the AD and AR amount independently.
This is easy to implement as well, but not easy to derive from a standard
ADSR.

JH.