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OT: Web Site Weirdness

OT: Web Site Weirdness

2001-03-13 by Tkacs, Ken

This is odd... there is/WAS a site at www.musicsynthesizers.com that I have
been visiting lately. It has a lot of neat stuff, including details on a lot
of Grant Richter's ideas and so on.

Right now, that URL redirects to www.synthesizers.com !

Something is afoot.

If you want to see what I mean, go to a search engine like Google and put in
"Buchla" and "Source of Uncertainty" and the first results that come up are
the site that I'm trying to reach. But that domain now seems to be combined
with Roger Arrick's site.

Re: [motm] OT: Web Site Weirdness

2001-03-13 by Thomas Hudson

"Tkacs, Ken" wrote:
>
> This is odd... there is/WAS a site at www.musicsynthesizers.com that I have
> been visiting lately. It has a lot of neat stuff, including details on a lot
> of Grant Richter's ideas and so on.
>
They now both resolve to the same IP address. Doing a whois on
musicsynthesizers.com comes up with:

Registrant:
Arrick Robotics (MUSICSYNTHESIZERS-DOM)
2107 W. Euless Blvd.
Euless, TX 76040
US

Domain Name: MUSICSYNTHESIZERS.COM

Administrative Contact, Billing Contact:
Arrick, Roger (RA136) roger@...
Arrick Publishing
PO Box 912
Hurst, TX 76053
(817) 571-0595
Technical Contact:
Rainwater, R Steven (SR71) srainwater@...
Network Cybernetics Corporation
5353 Alpha Road, Suite 205
Dallas, TX 75240-4357
972-404-0248 (FAX) 972-404-0269

Record last updated on 06-Apr-2000.
Record expires on 06-Apr-2002.
Record created on 06-Apr-2000.
Database last updated on 13-Mar-2001 13:51:58 EST.

Perhaps someone sold the domain to them? Or let it expire?
Note the date that the database was updated.

Tomy

Re: Modcan

2001-03-14 by mate_stubb@yahoo.com

I looked into Modcan (and others) before I cast my lot with MOTM.
Nice module lineup. Perhaps being in Canada is a psychological
barrier to US buyers - I don't know. I rejected Modcan because I
didn't like the physical format at all. Tiny knobs make for hair
trigger adjustments, and jacks are indiscriminately intertwined with
knobs. I hear they sound good, however.

Moe

--- In motm@y..., ivancu@a... wrote:
> By the way, looking at the www.modularsynth.com site, why does
Modcan rarely
> come up on anyone's lists? I've not seen the stuff, but it does
look at
> least somewhat interesting.
>
> Ivan

Re: [motm] Re: Modcan

2001-03-14 by ivancu@aol.com

In a message dated 3/13/01 6:02:21 PM, mate_stubb@... writes:

<< I looked into Modcan (and others) before I cast my lot with MOTM. >>

It was no-contest for me; I was just surprised that I haven't seen it on
many links pages or talked about in the world of modulars.

Ivan

Re: [motm] Re: Modcan

2001-03-14 by elhardt@aol.com

In motm@y..., ivancu@a... wrote:

>>By the way, looking at the www.modularsynth.com site, why does Modcan
rarely come up on anyone's lists? I've not seen the stuff, but it does look
at least somewhat interesting.<<

If I weren't on some synth mailing lists I won't know Modcan existed. It is
the least visible modular synth. As fas as I know, it's never once shown up
or been mentioned in any magazine.


mate_stubb@... writes:

>>I looked into Modcan (and others) before I cast my lot with MOTM. Nice
module lineup. I rejected Modcan because I didn't like the physical format at
all. Tiny knobs make for hair trigger adjustments, and jacks are
indiscriminately intertwined with
knobs. I hear they sound good, however.<<

I came within a hair of going the Modcan route. MOTM didn't have many
modules at the time, but Modcan had a complete line. I wasn't thrilled about
banana plugs. But the straw that finally broke the camel's back as it were
was they group their 3x1 mixer on the same module that had a couple of lag
processors. The cost to get enough mixers, especially at the small size 3
inputs, was going to cost so much that I finally gave up. It's really bad
planning to put a function that a person needs a lot of on the same module
with one that a person only needs one of. Later on MOTM was coming out with
more modules, so Modcan's loss was MOTM's gain.

-Elhardt

bananna plugs (was Modcan)

2001-03-14 by perpetual@uswest.net

--- In motm@y..., elhardt@a... wrote:
> I wasn't thrilled about
> banana plugs.

what's the bias against bananna plugs all about? personally, i don't
like 1/8" jacks just because i've snapped more than a couple with a
good chord yank, but bananna plugs seem kinda cool. all that
stacking stuff...

i actually have an alterior motive on this one. my local surplus
outlet has TONS of banana jacks and plugs. but no 1/4" or 1/8".

paul, care to comment on why you went 1/4"? i know you've *GOT* to
have an opinion on this one. ;)

alex

Re: [motm] bananna plugs (was Modcan)

2001-03-14 by ivancu@aol.com

In a message dated 3/14/01 9:30:45 AM, perpetual@... writes:

<< what's the bias against bananna plugs all about? >>

Multiple use of banana plugs usually results in loose connections. They just
don't seem to work that well for repeated insertions. That said, it is nice
to have single wire connections, and it is VERY easy to make your own cables.
I've always wondered if the lack of shielding on audio-carrying
single-conductor banana connections was a problem.

Ivan

RE: [motm] bananna plugs (was Modcan)

2001-03-14 by Tkacs, Ken

This is an eternally debated subject.

The general feeling about banana jacks seems to be that the stacking aspect
is a great plus (I don't think anyone DOESN'T like that aspect, except that
the plugs can quickly stick many inches out of a panel). But to critics,
they lend themselves more to cramped panels (like Serge or old Paia) and
that their lack of shielding, and the thinner cords in general feeling
flimsy, don't give many users the warm-fuzzy. Other argue that, since
oscilloscope probes use these kinds of cables, what's wrong with them?

I'm sure someone can make an argument about how the grounds are handled as
well in systems without shielded cables.

A lot of it is probably just personal preference. Personally, I don't care
for them at all. I like the big beefy 1/4" plugs ala Moog, MOTM, and most of
my other musical instruments. And the 1/8" versions just seem like little
weenie versions of their big brothers, offering nothing extra such as the
banana's stacking feature, so why use them? Again, only to save space on
cramped panels, which is better to avoid in the first place by not cramping
your panels!




-----Original Message-----
From: perpetual@... [mailto:perpetual@...]
Sent: Wednesday, 14 March, 2001 12:29 PM
To: motm@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [motm] bananna plugs (was Modcan)



what's the bias against bananna plugs all about?

Re: [motm] bananna plugs (was Modcan)

2001-03-14 by Nathan Hunsicker

i can think of a few reasons i don't like banana plugs

1 easier for noise to enter the patch [lack of shielding]
2 no locking mechanism [bananas can be pulled out too easily]
3 somewhere in the patch you need to have a banana to 1/4 convertor for
interfacing other equipment
4 banana patch cords aren't commonly found in stores [I love building
modules, but have soldering patch cords]
5 1/4" metal jacks look nicer than plastic banana jacks [purely cosmetic]

that's my $0.02 -Nate

>
>--- In motm@y..., elhardt@a... wrote:
>
>> I wasn't thrilled about
>
>> banana plugs.
>
>
>
>what's the bias against bananna plugs all about? personally, i don't
>
>like 1/8" jacks just because i've snapped more than a couple with a
>
>good chord yank, but bananna plugs seem kinda cool. all that
>
>stacking stuff...
>
>
>
>i actually have an alterior motive on this one. my local surplus
>
>outlet has TONS of banana jacks and plugs. but no 1/4" or 1/8".
>
>
>
>paul, care to comment on why you went 1/4"? i know you've *GOT* to
>
>have an opinion on this one. ;)
>
>
>
>alex
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
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Please reply to:
nate@...
www.etanstudios.com

Re: [motm] bananna plugs (was Modcan)

2001-03-14 by elhardt@aol.com

perpetual@... writes:

>>what's the bias against bananna plugs all about? personally, i don't
like 1/8" jacks just because i've snapped more than a couple with a
good chord yank, but bananna plugs seem kinda cool. all that
stacking stuff...<<

Banana plugs just don't seem like they were made to be constantly pulled in
and out. I remember reading a review of the Fenix semi-modular synth where
the reviewer said that he could almost lift the entire synth by one patch
cable. Why would anybody want that? I want cables that slip in and out of
their jacks easily because I'm patching a modular synth with them. Banana
plugs seem about as practical as RCA jacks on a modular. Nor do I want to be
plugging and unplugging on top of or inbetween a stack of banana plugs.
Multiples are cleaner. There's no shield on the cable either and the cables
are ugly. And they don't interface with all the other equipment that most
people have without going through cable converters or building a bunch of
custom cables going from banana to 1/4", 1/8", RCA. I can't think of
anything positive about them. They just aren't plugs for patching audio.

>>paul, care to comment on why you went 1/4"? i know you've *GOT* to
have an opinion on this one.<<

I can't comment for him, but it's a 1/4" world when it comes to a music
studio and synth setup. No need to introduce yet one more problem.

-Elhardt

Re: bananna plugs (was Modcan)

2001-03-14 by mate_stubb@yahoo.com

--- In motm@y..., "Tkacs, Ken" <ken.tkacs@j...> wrote:
>
> Other argue that, since
> oscilloscope probes use these kinds of cables, what's wrong with
> them?

Well, I haven't seen unshielded banana oscope probes forever. You
won't see them on any scope with decent bandwidth. My nothing-special-
at-all 100mHz Leader scope has the standard twist lock shielded
inputs.

Moe

Re: [motm] bananna plugs (was Modcan)

2001-03-14 by Paul Schreiber

>
> This is an eternally debated subject.

Only among the wicked and ignorant :)

>
> The general feeling about banana jacks seems to be that the stacking
aspect
> is a great plus (I don't think anyone DOESN'T like that aspect, except
that
> the plugs can quickly stick many inches out of a panel)

So what?

Bananas suffer from:

a) un-shielded connections. Name ONE PIECE of professional recording gear,
besides
Serge or Modcan, that uses them. If they are so "wonderful", why doesn't SSL
use them on
consoles?

BECAUSE THEY ARE UNSHIELDED, THAT'S WHY!

b) they force you to ONE SUPPLIER of patchcords (ITT Pomona).

c) They can't offer switching jacks. Switching jacks are INTEGRAL TO MOTM
SYSTEM DESIGN.

Paul S.

Re: bananna plugs (a tiny twist)

2001-03-14 by pow333@hotmail.com

With this renewed interest in interfacing, I wonder why no one has
brought up the possibility of Tiny Telephone. Most modern patch-bays
use these plugs. Why are they not used on other gear? Or for patching
on synths?

Re: [motm] bananna plugs (was Modcan)

2001-03-14 by ivancu@aol.com

In a message dated 3/14/01 9:58:58 AM, synth1@... writes:

<< If they are so "wonderful", why doesn't SSL use them on consoles? >>

Does that mean you're going to have balanced audio connections on all MOTM
modules? <G>

Ok, I'm ducking for cover as Paul reads that one.

Interestingly, on Cadac mixing consoles ALL busses are balanced. This allows
an amazingly quiet console which is also quite immune to RFI and EMI. I've
seen these consoles being used with many CRT displays in close proximity, and
only the Cadac consoles will remain quiet.

Ivan

Re: [motm] Re: bananna plugs (a tiny twist)

2001-03-14 by Paul Schreiber

Because you've never priced them :( BRING $$$

Paul S.

----- Original Message -----
From: <pow333@...>
To: <motm@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2001 1:59 PM
Subject: [motm] Re: bananna plugs (a tiny twist)


> With this renewed interest in interfacing, I wonder why no one has
> brought up the possibility of Tiny Telephone. Most modern patch-bays
> use these plugs. Why are they not used on other gear? Or for patching
> on synths?
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

Re: [motm] Re: bananna plugs (a tiny twist)

2001-03-14 by ivancu@aol.com

In a message dated 3/14/01 12:21:03 PM, pow333@... writes:

<< I wonder why no one has brought up the possibility of Tiny Telephone. >>

The TT, or Bantam, is great... and it costs a FORTUNE. Check out the cable
prices some time. IF you were to have a high-end modular with balanced audio
connections, TT would be the way to go. It is used a lot in high-end studios
and broadcast applications. Otherwise, we'll have to stick with what is used
in most recording studios, the ubiquitous 1/4" phone jack.

Ivan

Re: bananna plugs (was Modcan)

2001-03-14 by ceres@sirius.com

--- In motm@y..., ivancu@a... wrote:
>
> In a message dated 3/14/01 9:58:58 AM, synth1@a... writes:
> Does that mean you're going to have balanced audio connections
> on all MOTM modules? <G>
>
> Ok, I'm ducking for cover as Paul reads that one.

Not speaking for Paul, of course. But I'd see balanced connectors as
superfluous on a modular (as opposed to, say, a mixer) for two main
reasons:

* Connections are short (mostly less than 2 feet), so not much noise
will be picked up (especially with shielded cables) and there will be
little signal degradation. Mixer I/O's might be hooked up to a 50-
foot snake.

* Signal levels are high, so a little bit of noise and/or signal
degradation won't be audible the way it would be with microphone/line
signals in the millivolt-range that a mixer uses.

> Interestingly, on Cadac mixing consoles ALL busses are balanced.
> This allows an amazingly quiet console which is also quite immune
> to RFI and EMI. I've seen these consoles being used with many
> CRT displays in close proximity, and only the Cadac consoles will
> remain quiet.

If I had my MOTM sitting on top of a CRT, THEN I'd consider
retrofitting it with balanced jacks ...

-Doug
ceres@...

Re: [motm] bananna plugs (was Modcan)

2001-03-15 by davevosh@aol.com

In a message dated 01-03-14 12:30:40 EST, you write:

<< bananna plugs seem kinda cool. all that
stacking stuff... >>



alex,
my past experiences with banana plugs were all good.
as to 1/4" - they are, admittedly, more rugged, theoretically offering a
longer lifespan, they offer (optionally) a built in switching function which
some people like a lot and they can simplify grounding issues that can arise
using banana jacks.
best,
dave v.

Re: [motm] bananna plugs (was Modcan)

2001-03-15 by davevosh@aol.com

In a message dated 01-03-14 13:00:18 EST, you write:

<< Multiple use of banana plugs usually results in loose connections. They
just
don't seem to work that well for repeated insertions. >>


ivan,
after using a serge for 15 years, i can tell you that i didn`t have a
problem with the jacks getting too loose to use. over 15 years, about a dozen
did break but were easy to replace ( with a better quality jack as serge`s
production ones weren`t, admittedly, the best available ) and inexpensive.
best,
dave v.

Re: [motm] Re: bananna plugs (was Modcan)

2001-03-17 by Hugo Haesaert

Hi All !

Banana plugs are used a lot in all kinds of lab setups . Rmember the
high school physics lab ?

All lab power supplies use 'em . Many multimeters use 'em, etc ...
Check any good catalogue and you will find bnc (used on modern
scopes) to banana converters and almost anything else too .

Since i have synths of all types, i just get on with them, no sense
in arguing with myself ;^P

Cheers .


Keep 'em oscillating :)


Hugo
=

Re: [motm] Re: bananna plugs (was Modcan)

2001-03-17 by ivancu@aol.com

In a message dated 3/17/01 7:10:15 AM, hugo.haesaert@... writes:

<< All lab power supplies use 'em . Many multimeters use 'em, etc ...
Check any good catalogue and you will find bnc (used on modern
scopes) to banana converters and almost anything else too . >>

Which brings up a good point. ANY piece of test equipment dealing with audio
signals will use a dual-banana with a shielded cable. This is not the case
for synthesizers using banana connections.

Ivan

Re: [motm] Re: bananna plugs (was Modcan)

2001-03-17 by jwbarlow@aol.com

In a message dated 3/17/2001 7:24:12 AM, ivancu@... writes:

>ANY piece of test equipment dealing with audio
>signals will use a dual-banana with a shielded cable. This is not the
>case
>for synthesizers using banana connections.

Great point Ivan! I'm pretty sure this is why Paul chose to put the ground
strip of bananas on the 940 -- the one that everyone wants to change out to
another set of 1/4" mults.
JB

Re: [motm] Re: bananna plugs (was Modcan)

2001-03-20 by Buck Buchanan

Hi all,

My apologies for continuing this thread so late in the game....

Now I would not deny the complaints about bananas except those of
unreliability (assuming Pamona is used). However, I think there's a
pro-banana point that hasn't been made (although granted, these points
are only relevant to a specific need).

I'm building my modular for real-time/live creation of abstract music.
More often than not, I don't know what the next patch will be (during a
piece) until I make it. And guaranteed, all currently patched modules
will be making sound that cannot be disturbed. For this application, I
almost *had* to use banana for the following reason;

For example; Re-patching your VCO through a multiple (because you didn't
know you wanted another sawtooth output 5 minutes before) is out of the
question because you'd disturb an audible patch. Stacking allows
splitting off an output without re-patching something that's already
running.

Bananas don't have a ground present on the jack: In the above example,
say you'd had the foresight to pre-patch multiples (using 1/4" phone);
you still short out the entire node when you patch because for a moment
the tip touches sleeve as you insert the plug. Again, the audible patch
is disturbed by additional patching. Obviously, buffered multiples
solves this problem but I haven't yet seen a system that uses them.

Bananas allow separation of signal ground from chassis ground in a
rugged jack (unlike the Re'An style 1/4" nylon jacks whose mounting nut
pops off if you stare at it hard). Those dangling, half-patched cables,
will not short out the node if they bounce against the chassis.

That all said, if I was building a studio machine, I'd use 1/4" phone
and I think anything but 1/4" (short of something balanced) would be
throwing away much of the precision and fantastic noise characteristics
of MOTM.

Crappy picture of a Bananafied MOTM 420 on Schroff panel
(synth_close2.jpg) at: http://members.home.net/voltagecontrolled/
(Please note that I told Paul in advance that I was planning to modify
his art and received his permission to put "MOTM 420" on the panel.)

Buck (climbing off banana soapbox and back to reality)

Modcan

2018-05-31 by domsaddress@...

I hope this isn't out of line. I posted a message in the Modcan group a week or two ago and got no response so I'm trying here instead. I'm guessing most Modcan people are MOTM people too!


Looking for a Modcan rack kit if anyone has one to spare, and also a 01B VCO, 58B VCO and 48B mult.


Thanks!
Dom