MOTM

> Remember, MOTM is just my little part-time *hobby*.
>
> Year 2000 MOTM facts:
>
> Number of modules shipped: 828
>
> Cost of goods sold + test equipment: $109,282 or about $132/module. Yep,
> MOTM is a *real profit maker* :)
>
> Cost of telephone service: $4,709 (does not include ISP services)
>
> Cost of Office Supplies (like copies of the manual, tape, toner, etc):
> $4,102
>
> Maybe I should take up something cheaper, like bass fishing (and not MUCH
> cheaper at that).
>
> Paul S.
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

>Remember, MOTM is just my little part-time *hobby*.
>
>Year 2000 MOTM facts:
>
>Number of modules shipped: 828
>
>Cost of goods sold + test equipment: $109,282 or about $132/module. Yep,
>MOTM is a *real profit maker* :)
>
>Cost of telephone service: $4,709 (does not include ISP services)
>
>Cost of Office Supplies (like copies of the manual, tape, toner, etc):
>$4,102
>
>Maybe I should take up something cheaper, like bass fishing (and not MUCH
>cheaper at that).

----- Original Message -----
From: Paul Schreiber <synth1@...>
Maybe I should take up something cheaper,
like bass fishing (and not MUCH
cheaper at that).
---------
If you do, could you do something to improve on the quality of sound from
those dang singin' billy-bass things.
LH

>Remember, MOTM is just my little part-time *hobby*.

>>Remember, MOTM is just my little part-time *hobby*.
>
>It's whatever puts you in the best position with the IRS.

>>> Why not get longer pieces that hold more than 10U?? If they were 14U I

>> Why not get longer pieces that hold more than 10U??
>>If they were 14U I could get 40% more modules!!
>
>Sure, but *they wouldn't fit into a 19" rack!*

>The rails Synth Tech sells are specifically for mounting modules
>in 19" rack cabinets.

>They are custom made.

>There are so-called "flat rails" (12u wide I believe) in the works for
>>those making wooden cabinets. I don't know what the most recent ETA on
>those is. Others are either screwing the modules into wood or using
>>threaded inserts.

>You could buy rack rails and sandwich them back to back. I tried that. But
>the bend in the "L-shape" of the rails creates a gap between module rows
>that can be as much as 3/8" which I found unacceptable.

>Also, the screws Paul provides are not rack screws, so you would need
>other hardware.

>But the holes in the module corners can support rack screws; you just
>lose a little of the so-called "slop space" for adjusting the moules.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tkacs, Ken [mailto:ken.tkacs@...]
> Sent: Friday, March 16, 2001 12:07 PM
> To: 'motm@yahoogroups.com'
> Subject: RE: [motm] mounting idea
>
>
>
> Open frame? Okay, I don't understand. How can you fit more
> than 19" wide of
> modules in a 19" rack? In the Tardis, it works, but in my universe....
>
> It wouldn't be a 19" rack, then, would it? If you're talking
> about moving
> the vertical rails farther apart, then you're talking about a
> non-standard
> rack... not something you would mount your digital delay or your
> Expressionist over your modules on, not something supported
> by any existing
> hardware. I already have two tall 19" racks in my studio and
> I've already
> opted not to mount my MOTM in those kinds of rails... I know
> I wouldn't
> consider a non-standard rack.
>
> I don't know if Paul's rack rails are flat or angled. I never
> wanted to go
> the rack route since day 1, so I'm waiting for the flat rails.
>
> What I'm talking about using 19" rails as horizontal beams
> leaving space is
> that the rails are L-shaped in cross section, but not a clean
> "L". There is
> almost always a 1/2" or 5/8" "round" to the joint because of
> the thickness
> of the metal used in the rails. Stamping, tapping, and
> bending the rails is
> far cheaper than extruding a clean "L" and then tapping, so
> that's what you
> get. When you sandwich multiple rails together, the rounds
> leave a wide
> space between module rows.
>
> Buying those screws seems trivial... until you want them in
> black. Not a
> Home Depot item. Obviously SOMEONE carries them, but many on
> the list here
> have expressed frustration getting exactly the right screw.
>
>
>
>
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>
>Open frame? Okay, I don't understand. How can you fit more than 19" wide of
>modules in a 19" rack? In the Tardis, it works, but in my universe....

>What I'm talking about using 19" rails as horizontal beams leaving space is
>that the rails are L-shaped in cross section, but not a clean "L". There is
>almost always a 1/2" or 5/8" "round" to the joint because of the thickness
>of the metal used in the rails. Stamping, tapping, and bending the rails is
>far cheaper than extruding a clean "L" and then tapping, so that's what you
>get. When you sandwich multiple rails together, the rounds leave a wide
>space between module rows.

>Buying those screws seems trivial... until you want them in black.

>
>I think he's talking about those open racks without sides--think just rack
>rails, vertical, 19" apart. Then he's thinking of putting a pair of
>horizontal rack rails across the front of that. The horizontal rails will
>mount to the vertical rails. Between the vertical rails will fit 5 2U
>modules. Outside the vertical rails will fit, well, whatever fits on
>whatever he has overlapping the ends.

>>>d00D, you have to think outside the box :)

>Buying those screws seems trivial... until you want them in black. Not a
>Home Depot item. Obviously SOMEONE carries them, but many on the list here
>have expressed frustration getting exactly the right screw.

>They even had the hard to find 8-32 1/4" that I needed for my flat rails.

>I had to go to the local Guitar Center to get a bag of black screw that
>fir
>*standard* racks.

>So did you have flat metal (threaded) rails fabricated at a shop? (or
>possibly make them your self!!??)

>I made my own.

>I bought 1/8" x 1/2" aluminum stock from www.mcmaster.com

>and then laid out the pattern for the drill/tap holes using one of the
>MOTM
>rack rails as a template.

>
>>>>d00D, you have to think outside the box :)
>
>I guess I just can't...

>why would you want to do it this way?

>Have modules hanging on either side of a rack?

>I guess I would have to see this in action.

>
>I'd love to see some MOTM flat cabinet rails, but if nothing happens
>soon, I may have to go to brass inserts in a soft wood rail.

>
>I made my own. I bought 1/8" x 1/2" aluminum stock from www.mcmaster.com
>and then laid out the pattern for the drill/tap holes using one of the MOTM
>rack rails as a template.

> From where do you get these brass inserts?? That way I'll be able to use
>the machine screws provided. Not only will this keep me from having to use
>screws that are *gasp* a different color, but I'll be able to swap my
>modules around as much as I want (with wood screws the holes would
>eventually wear out), and you know, it's not a modular unless you can move
>the modules around ;)

> From: <mark@...>
>From where do you get these brass inserts??

> Not only will this keep me from having to use
> screws that are *gasp* a different color, but I'll be able
> to swap my modules around as much as I want

>Also since I can make the wood as deep as I
>want, it will likely be stiffer than 1/8" aluminum (which may prove
>important since modules will be hanging outside the rack).
>

>I would assume that Dave H. is mounting his aluminum rail on a wood
>crossmember to give the rail the rigidity needed. Every reference to flat
>cabinet rails in the past has taken this approach.

--- In motm@y..., "J. Larry Hendry" <jlarryh@i...> wrote:
>
> ? ----- Original Message -----
> > From: <mark@i...>
> >From where do you get these brass inserts??
>
> Dave B (Moe) discovered these
> at Lowes in the specialty hardware section.
>
> The package is labeled
> #8-32 x 7/32
> Wood Insert Nuts
>
> 8-32 is the screw size for the inside. 7/32 referes to the
> outside hole size I expect.
>
> The barcode # is 080358847830
> The stock # is 792270 I think
> The come in packs of 2 for abour 75 cents
> Moe has used them and can give you some tips on
> wood types and inserting them.
>
> > Not only will this keep me from having to use
> > screws that are *gasp* a different color, but I'll be able
> > to swap my modules around as much as I want
>
> Humm... Looks like another stooge with a sense of humor.
> I like that. :)
>
> Larry

>First thing to know about these brass inserts is that they are soft.
>The top is slotted to drive them with a screwdriver, and you will
>peel the tabs right off if you attempt to drive them into oak, even
>with the proper sized hole drilled. They need soft pine rails. Steel
>inserts would fare better.
>
>Second, if you go the Lowe's approach as I did (details below), talk
>to the hardware manager and order a bunch in a batch. I got them for
>half price that way.

>
>I would assume that Dave H. is mounting his aluminum rail on a wood
>crossmember to give the rail the rigidity needed. Every reference to flat
>cabinet rails in the past has taken this approach.

>
>Yes, they are mounted on 1/2" x 3/4" oak.

>
>First thing to know about these brass inserts is that they are soft.
>The top is slotted to drive them with a screwdriver, and you will
>peel the tabs right off if you attempt to drive them into oak, even
>with the proper sized hole drilled. They need soft pine rails. Steel
>inserts would fare better.

>
>>From where do you get these brass inserts??
>
>Dave B (Moe) discovered these
>at Lowes in the specialty hardware section.
>
>The package is labeled
>#8-32 x 7/32
>Wood Insert Nuts
>
>8-32 is the screw size for the inside. 7/32 referes to the
>outside hole size I expect.
>
>The barcode # is 080358847830
>The stock # is 792270 I think
>The come in packs of 2 for abour 75 cents
>Moe has used them and can give you some tips on
>wood types and inserting them.

> Is anybody using standard rack rails for MOTM cabinets?

> I bought some rails a
> couple of years ago with the intention of trying it, but the numerous
> problems (screw size difference, gap between modules in upper and lower rows,
> possible interference with the back of pots) all caused me to reevaluate this
> idea.

>Just a Sunday morning $.02 with first cup of coffee - consider as you
>like, Jeff

>> Is anybody using standard rack rails for MOTM cabinets?
>At least one person (me) and I suspect a number of others. At the moment
>I have a 3 rack cabinet (see
>www-personal.ksu.edu/~jpont/synths/synthstudio.html)
>which works well for me, and in the next several weeks will start on a
>4
>rack 19" cabinet (similar to the above) since I'm running out of module
>space (apparently a common lament).
>
>> I bought some rails a
>> couple of years ago with the intention of trying it, but the numerous
>> problems (screw size difference, gap between modules in upper and lower
>rows,
>> possible interference with the back of pots) all caused me to reevaluate
>this
>> idea.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeffrey Pontius" <jpont@...>
To: <motm@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 18, 2001 11:29 AM
Subject: Re: RE: [motm] mounting idea


> JB,
>
> > Is anybody using standard rack rails for MOTM cabinets?
> At least one person (me) and I suspect a number of others. At the moment
> I have a 3 rack cabinet (see
> www-personal.ksu.edu/~jpont/synths/synthstudio.html)
> which works well for me, and in the next several weeks will start on a 4
> rack 19" cabinet (similar to the above) since I'm running out of module
> space (apparently a common lament).
>
> > I bought some rails a
> > couple of years ago with the intention of trying it, but the numerous
> > problems (screw size difference, gap between modules in upper and lower
rows,
> > possible interference with the back of pots) all caused me to reevaluate
this
> > idea.
> [I believe below is commonly known - so I apologize if I am covering
> already known territory. Just my experience contrary to the above
> comments.]
>
> I've not had these problems with one exception: some of the Oakley
> modules' top pot's interfere with the top motm rail (nothing new here as
> Tony mentions this and a solution on his Projects web page). I've just
> used a slim (I believe 1/8" thick) fiber washer to accomodate. Then one
> has to remember to tilt the module when attaching and removing.
>
> Standard rack screws will work to attach the rails (and although they
> conventionally have wider heads than those supplied with the motm rails)
> and the modules fit ok with the standard rack screws (only to attach the
> rails).
>
> For me the part that requires strict attention is making sure that the
> cabinet sides are 19 1/8" apart interior. You can have
> some variance in this width, but the more exact the better (of course).
> Also, as I think Paul S. mentioned recently, there is virtually no gap
> between rows, but with a slight gap between modules within a row.
>
> Having taken the 19" route and considering my current expansion of my
> motm-based modular I think that the non-19" rack route may have been
> better for me in the long run (given space and ergonomic considerations).
> However, given that my primary interest is in making 'noise', I'm not
> willing to consider a major change in housing the modules, at least right
> now).
>
> Just a Sunday morning $.02 with first cup of coffee - consider as you
> like, Jeff
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

>
> Actually, my (implied but not stated) point was using the standard rack rails
> horizontally and mounting the MOTM modules directly in them -- if you try
> this you will see all the problems that I mention come into play to one
> degree or another.