MOTM

Just to offer a different view.  First of all I work for macromedia so my opinion is obviously biased.  

 

I used to do all my html by hand.  About 6 years ago we transitioned all our development docs from word to html.  All our specs, test plans, schedules etc, were being posted to an internal web site.  Around the same time we shipped Dreamweaver.  I had to give it a try and even though I was very skeptical, I soon realized what a great tool this was.

 

First of all, I will never have to hand code another table, bullet list or frame.  That alone is worth the price of admission.  Second, the html output in Dreamweaver is pretty good.  Not perfect but definitely workable.  The code is properly indented, the syntax is right, it lets you set up CSS styles.  I still have to go into code view for a few things but not that often.  There is no bloat in DW code.

 

DW also lets you manage sites which is very nice - especially if you are working on a team.  It has it's own checkin/checkout functionality.

 

Another cool feature is its integration with Fireworks.  At one point I spent about a month of my spare time reworking my website with rollover buttons, tabbed menus, etc.  I hand coded the javaScript and created all the 3-state graphics in photoshop.  Then one day I see a page that one of my co-workers put together that was essentially the exact same thing functionality wise.  It took him 2 hours to set up using Dreamweaver and Fireworks.  He created all the rollover items in fireworks using layers for the different states, then sliced it up and exported.  Fireworks created all the javaScript.  A simple copy and paste into Dreamweaver and that was it.

 

One thing someone told me a long time ago when I was reluctant to try it was that HTML is like postscript.  Once upon a time there were people who coded postscript.  This was before we had programs that output postscript like Illustrator.  My point is that eventually the tools get good enough so that you don't have to hand code anymore.

 

Ken, have you actually tried Dreamweaver?  If not, you can get a free 30 day trial.  Give it a shot and let me know what you think.

 

-- chris

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Tkacs, Ken [mailto:ken.tkacs@...] 
Sent: Monday, April 21, 2003 7:01 AM
To: MOTM Forum All
Subject: FW: [motm] RE: OT web authoring

I wasn't asked, but since it's a subject near & dear to my heart, I'll jump in too.

I agree with what Moe said: all commercial web development software *is* crap. His description pretty much describes my setup.

Historically, I've used MS FrontPage, and then gone into "code" view and 'fixed,' cleaned, and extended everything. Or I go into Notepad, because Notepad just says, "Yes, boss" and does what I tell it to without adding anything or moving anything when I close the file.

You might be amazed at how often I use Notepad, and I do this for a living. I even code ASP.NET in notepad... at the end of the day, if you know what you're doing, there's nothing you can't do by directly manipulating the code. (If you don't know what you're doing, then, well, I guess it's a different story.)

But I'm an old curmudgeon; I absolutely abhor any software that tries to second-guess me, or wipe my... well, let's say I detest software that tries to help me across the street like an old lady. I have more people trying to shove expensive 'does it all for you' software at me, and stuff that requires plug-ins just turns me right off.

Also, I'm frequently called in to repair web sites that were created by other people who do not know what they're doing, but consider themselves web designers because they bought an expensive "automated" program. What a nightmare. The bloated code is unbelievable, and things like variables are given cryptic names because they were created by a machine and not a human. I usually start completely from scratch when I have to repair a site created this way. I won't name the packages that are the biggest offenders, because I don't want to offend someone here who may love them, but let me assure you that you can code anything by hand with no bloat in ways these applications can't even 'dream' of. 

At work, however, my [younger] assistant rides me about doing things "the hard way" so we're switching to VisualStudio.NET/SourceSafe; but I'm only doing it because we now need versioning-control software, not because I think that I can't continue to use a text editor forever.

So that's the cranky old man answer. ;)

(What did you expect? I'm spending years soldering together a gargantuan synthesizer that uses patchcords and technically only makes one note at a time! If I were a 'take the easy way out' kind of person, I wouldn't be here!)