MOTM

At 3:34 PM +0000 1/20/03, mate_stubb <mate_stubb@...> wrote:
>I find that it's also very useful to use a keyboard with release
>velocity, and map that to the release time.

Yes, I've often heard that from Matrix 12 owners, but I don't think I have
a keyboard that sends release velocity, or that I could play
well-enough to take advantage of it if it did.

At 5:03 PM +0100 1/20/03, jhaible@... wrote:
>
>My favorite VC parameter is Decay Time.
>With Random modulation of Decay time an otherwise sterile Sequencer
>patten really comes alive.

Would you care too elaborate on that??  Do you find that
effect useful even when you can vary the gate time??

Anyway, I never heard of a MOTM-880, have no idea what kind of EG a
CS-80 has, or what Scott is doing.  Has he posted anything about it??

Basically, what I was doing was trying to cook up a  "performance
envelope", an expressive EG for playing leads from a MIDI keyboard
using velocity, entirely for my own purposes.

At 11:15 AM -0500 1/20/03, Les Mizzell wrote:
>
>Not to disagree with you, but I've got two VC ADSRs in my system, and I
>control the sustain and release times a LOT with various controllers.  I
>note that I especially do this a good bit with little running percussive
>sounds where certain hits my have accents or a little longer decay than
>others, but the attack doesn't change.

In trying to get "realistic" percussive sounds, I found that attack
level was as important, or even more important, than attack rate.
With a higher attack level, you get a naturally longer decay even if
the decay rate is fixed, as well as an overall increase in loudness when
used with a VCA.

Of course being able to control attack rate with velocity is very
important for playing pads and strings, and useful for percussion as
well.

>Each of us has our own patching styles. I would guess that once you start
>using a VC ADSR, you'll find more ways to make good use of the various
>options available.

I'm sure :)

>Adding a trigger at the end of a particular cycle so we can retrigger the EG
>makes the until even more useful, as we can now get double or triple duty
>out of the module since it can now become an LFO or, if design allows, an
>audio range oscillator.  Think about using the module as an LFO, with
>separate VC of rise and fall rates - now you've got a LFO with VC control of
>the waveform shape.....

That's more like the Encore UEG, which is an excellent module.  Now
if you took that, and added CV for everything and standard MOTM-sized
knobs, even after shaving it down to only four stages (ADSR) it would
still be 4U!!

The Serge TSG/DSG modules are excellent designs as well, yet their VC
ADSR is a separate module.  I'm all for multi-purpose modules, but I
think it might more efficient to have two or more different EG
modules that take up 1U or 2U than one enormous module that tries to
do everything.

>Such a module is almost a small synth unto itself....
>
>Such a device, with VC of *all* parameters, would be not only a useful
>addition, but a welcome one to the MOTM line-up.

I agree.  It's better to have a swiss army knife _and_ a leatherman tool :)

At 9:40 PM +0000 1/21/03, elhardt@... wrote:
>
>VC decay is also useful. One reason is that's how real percusive or plucked
>string instruments work.  The higher the note, the shorter the decay time.

That is a very good point.  If someone were concerned with that, they
could use the note CV to modulate decay.

>Also, a VC EG should have a delay stage.  I've always had the idea that slight
>random variances in a delay stage could make those robotic sounding sequenced
>midi files, sound a little more human.

Although I've found that random doesn't sound human, I see your
point.  VC delay could be modulated to change the feel of a sequence.

At 10:10 PM +0000 1/21/03, paulhaneberg <phaneber@...> wrote:
>
>I've been playing around with VC EG ideas for some time.
>I'd like to see 5 controllable parameters, delay, attack, decay,
>sustain level and release.  Ideally each parameter should have a
>control knob and a CV knob.  An additional input with knob which
>would affect all time parameters (everything but sustain) could also
>be useful.  I also like the idea of being able to retrigger the EG
>at the end of the cycle.  The full-featured VC EG should also have a
>trigger PB, and an LED indicator.  Another interesting feature would
>be the ability to switch in a larger cap for very long parameter
>times.  The delay section should not only delay the leading edge of
>the gate, but the trailing edge as well, so that the original gate
>length is preserved regardless of delay time.  Sounds like at least
>a 3U module to me.
>I love the idea of controlling the attack length and sustain level
>with the note on velocity and the release length with the note off
>velocity.  And adding the re-gate feature allows the module to be
>used as an oscillator (sort of a trapezoidal osc.) even at extremely
>long period lengths.

In addition to all those good ideas, there is attack level, hold,
voltage scaling, lin/exp, gate/trigger modes, etc.  Which would make
it a 5U module!!

As much as I appreciate all of the ideas expressed in this thread, it
supports a massive amount of features.  Imho, too many to fit into
one module.   So I suggest the best approach would be a division of
labor over several different modules.


>  >>>>
>I playing around with a VC EG this weekend. My conclusion as that
>controlling Attack rate and Attack level, as well as scaling the
>entire envelope, via velocity, are very useful. VC control over
>Decay, Sustain, or Release weren't that useful. With a fixed decay
>rate, the decay time increases as the attack level increases which
>seems to sound "natural", imho.
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