MOTM

>From: motm@yahoogroups.com
>Reply-To: motm@yahoogroups.com
>To: motm@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [motm] Digest Number 1138
>Date: 2 Dec 2001 11:01:04 -0000
>
>There are 16 messages in this issue.
>
>Topics in this digest:
>
>       1. Re: Mitchell's Law
>            From: phaneber@...
>       2. Re: Power Supply Location & Cooling
>            From: phaneber@...
>       3. Re: End cap... errr... issues
>            From: "J. Larry Hendry" <jlarryh@...>
>       4. Internet server outages ?
>            From: "J. Larry Hendry" <jlarryh@...>
>       5. Re: Internet server outages ?
>            From: "Craig Critchley" <craigc@...>
>       6. Re: Internet server outages ?
>            From: alt-mode <alt_mode@...>
>       7. RE: Power Supply Hum and Cabinet Cooling Questions
>            From: mate_stubb@...
>       8. Re: Power Supply Hum and Cabinet Cooling Questions
>            From: Jeffrey Pontius <jpont@...>
>       9. Re: Honkin' supplies, Part #2
>            From: Jeffrey Pontius <jpont@...>
>      10. Re: Power Supply Location & Cooling
>            From: Scott Juskiw <scott@...>
>      11. Re: Honkin' supplies, Part #2
>            From: Scott Juskiw <scott@...>
>      12. Re: Honkin' supplies, Part #2
>            From: jwbarlow@...
>      13. Re: Power Supply Hum and Cabinet Cooling Questions
>            From: "Paul Schreiber" <synth1@...>
>      14. Re: That EMS sound...
>            From: alt-mode <alt_mode@...>
>      15. RE: Mitchell ...
>            From: "Tkacs, Ken" <ken.tkacs@...>
>      16. Re: Power Supplies Etc.
>            From: phaneber@...
>
>
>________________________________________________________________________
>________________________________________________________________________
>
>Message: 1
>    Date: Sat, 01 Dec 2001 15:27:16 -0000
>    From: phaneber@...
>Subject: Re: Mitchell's Law
>
>Doesn't this Mitchell guy know that modules are like money, yuou can
>never have too much!
>
>
>
>
>________________________________________________________________________
>________________________________________________________________________
>
>Message: 2
>    Date: Sat, 01 Dec 2001 15:42:16 -0000
>    From: phaneber@...
>Subject: Re: Power Supply Location & Cooling
>
>Thanks for the help Paul.  I'm okay on the size of the Power One, I
>have the 5 Amp version.  I had estimated the draw at about 3.5 Amps.
>I still may put the supply in its own box on the floor, perhaps with a
>fan.  The standoffs are a good idea, I hadn't thought of that.  I may
>use a fan rather than expose the heat sink.  In the synth cabinet each
>row is isolated from the other, each row is tilted differently similar
>to Stooge Moe's cabinets.  The "shelves" dividing the rows support the
>  modules which are mounted using Stooge Larry's rails.  The shelves
>are about three inches deeper than the modules.  I have cut holes in
>the back of each row with a hole saw to allow the heat to flow upward
>along the back of the cabinet.  My idea with fans was to put one in
>the lower left back side drawing in and one in the upper tight back
>blowing out.  With the holes in each row properly sized there should
>be a positive flow upward throughout the back of the cabinet.
>Alternatively, without the fans, I could hole saw some holes in the
>bottom and top rear of the cabinet allowing convection to provide the
>cooling flow.
>I will certainly follow the suggestions on supply distribution.  I
>have some of the prescribed barrier strips laying around, and 14
>stranded was exactly what I had in mind.
>Maybe I'll do it differently when I run out of space and have to
>expand. (Hah!)  Mitchell eat your heart out!
>Paul Haneberg
>
>
>
>
>________________________________________________________________________
>________________________________________________________________________
>
>Message: 3
>    Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2001 12:44:54 -0600
>    From: "J. Larry Hendry" <jlarryh@...>
>Subject: Re: End cap... errr... issues
>
>These are the kind of responses that I expected.  There will be a slight
>delay in shipping the remaining end caps whilst I carefully enlarge the 
>hole
>and possibly make it more "slotted" if I can find the appropriate tool this
>weekend.
>
>All, who have received theirs so far and have fit issues, please fell free
>to return them to me for "factory installed hole adjustments."  (Covered by
>Stooge warranty of course).
>
>Oxy-moron = "rack standard"
>
>Stooge Larry
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: Joe Pavone <jpp@...>
>I got my end caps and found that they worked
>perfectly for my SKB cases,  but I had problems
>on my "industrial" rack (from mouser I think). The
>issue is that the holes need to be a bit bigger,
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: Craig Critchley <craigc@...>
>I got mine yesterday, and they just *barely* fit.  Tight, and I had to
>loosen and adjust the rails to get them to fit.
>
>
>
>
>
>________________________________________________________________________
>________________________________________________________________________
>
>Message: 4
>    Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2001 12:52:14 -0600
>    From: "J. Larry Hendry" <jlarryh@...>
>Subject: Internet server outages ?
>
>Is anyone besides me noticing a series of outages that may be related to 
>the
>@ home system money troubles.  There was an article in a local paper
>indicating that the local cable TV provider got their service from them.
>There was much concern over the future.  I find www.wiseguysynth.com  down
>and the cable provider for that server comes from @ home.  I also have some
>undeliverable mail messages today to otherwise good addresses.
>
>Is something actually collapsing or am I just paranoid?  Fortunately, my
>site back up mirror (graciously provided by Cary Roberts) is still on-line
>for anyone requiring documentation for 831/822 stuff.  My site mirror is
>here:
>http://larry.retrosynth.com/larry/default.htm
>
>I have no way to update the mirror however.
>
>Stooge Larry
>
>
>
>
>
>________________________________________________________________________
>________________________________________________________________________
>
>Message: 5
>    Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2001 10:15:33 -0800
>    From: "Craig Critchley" <craigc@...>
>Subject: Re: Internet server outages ?
>
>Yesterday a bankruptcy court gave @Home permission to shut down their
>service, as requested by bond-holders and opposed by cable companies and 
>the
>FCC, but I haven't found any confirmation that they actually exercised that
>option...
>
>AT&T is apparently trying to buy @Home...
>
>                         ...Craig
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "J. Larry Hendry" <jlarryh@...>
>To: "MOTM List" <motm@yahoogroups.com>
>Sent: Saturday, December 01, 2001 10:52 AM
>Subject: [motm] Internet server outages ?
>
>
> > Is anyone besides me noticing a series of outages that may be related to
>the
> > @ home system money troubles.  There was an article in a local paper
> > indicating that the local cable TV provider got their service from them.
> > There was much concern over the future.  I find www.wiseguysynth.com  
>down
> > and the cable provider for that server comes from @ home.  I also have
>some
> > undeliverable mail messages today to otherwise good addresses.
> >
> > Is something actually collapsing or am I just paranoid?  Fortunately, my
> > site back up mirror (graciously provided by Cary Roberts) is still 
>on-line
> > for anyone requiring documentation for 831/822 stuff.  My site mirror is
> > here:
> > http://larry.retrosynth.com/larry/default.htm
> >
> > I have no way to update the mirror however.
> >
> > Stooge Larry
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to 
>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
>
>
>
>________________________________________________________________________
>________________________________________________________________________
>
>Message: 6
>    Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2001 10:50:59 -0800 (PST)
>    From: alt-mode <alt_mode@...>
>Subject: Re: Internet server outages ?
>
>@home was ordered to "shutdown" by a bankruptcy judge but the bondholders 
>(AT&T and
>Cox are two) can negotiate service.  From what I have seen from the North 
>American
>Network Operators (nanog) mailing list, there are service outages for some 
>AT&T
>customers and some are being notified to expect the outage to last for a 
>few days...
>  I would expect a few hiccups in the days ahead affecting some nets but 
>nothing
>horrific.
>
>However, I think the days of $9.95/mo Internet service are over.  It is 
>very
>difficult to have a profitable business at even $19.95 a month for dialup 
>service.
>It is even higher for broadband.  Expect prices to rise as competition 
>fades for
>service in some areas.  Cable service has provided a tremendous amount of 
>bandwidth
>to folks at a very low price.  That's been a great boon but it is a money 
>loser.
>Expect your Internet service bill to start resembling your phone bill where 
>the
>"extra" services start costing more.  For example, you are charged extra 
>for
>touch-tone service on your phone bill but try to get service without it!  
>Just like
>caller-id, bandwidth greater than 56Kb will cost more.
>
>   ERic
>
>
>--- "J. Larry Hendry" <jlarryh@...> wrote:
> > Is anyone besides me noticing a series of outages that may be related to 
>the
> > @ home system money troubles.  There was an article in a local paper
> > indicating that the local cable TV provider got their service from them.
> > There was much concern over the future.  I find www.wiseguysynth.com  
>down
> > and the cable provider for that server comes from @ home.  I also have 
>some
> > undeliverable mail messages today to otherwise good addresses.
> >
> > Is something actually collapsing or am I just paranoid?  Fortunately, my
> > site back up mirror (graciously provided by Cary Roberts) is still 
>on-line
> > for anyone requiring documentation for 831/822 stuff.  My site mirror is
> > here:
> > http://larry.retrosynth.com/larry/default.htm
> >
> > I have no way to update the mirror however.
> >
> > Stooge Larry
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to 
>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
>
>
>__________________________________________________
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>Buy the perfect holiday gifts at Yahoo! Shopping.
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>
>
>________________________________________________________________________
>________________________________________________________________________
>
>Message: 7
>    Date: Sat, 01 Dec 2001 19:27:51 -0000
>    From: mate_stubb@...
>Subject: RE: Power Supply Hum and Cabinet Cooling Questions
>
>Paul's tips are graphically illustrated here, if you haven't already
>seen the Synth of Doom's power distribution scheme:
>
>http://www.users.qwest.net/~daveb2/distribute.htm
>http://www.users.qwest.net/~daveb2/distribute_sod.htm
>
>As far as closing up the back: you could cut vent slots at the top
>and bottom to help carry away any heat. Although the back of my cab
>is open, the power supply doesn't seem to generate any heat worth
>mentioning.
>
>Moe
>
> >>>>>>>
> >question is where do I put it.  Has anyone
> > had negative experiences in the way of hum or electrical noise from
> > mounting their power supply near the back of the modules?
>
>In the back, in the bottom, in the *center* of the cabinet. Then you
>make a wiring "tree" with 14ga wire. The tree goes "up" to each row.
>You use barrier strips/spade lugs to tie to each 'row'. Then, you
>place 2 MOTM-960s per row, to to the 'left' and one to the 'right' at
>the 1/3 and 2/3rds distance from the ends.
><<<<<<<
>
>
>
>
>
>
>________________________________________________________________________
>________________________________________________________________________
>
>Message: 8
>    Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2001 13:53:51 -0600 (CST)
>    From: Jeffrey Pontius <jpont@...>
>Subject: Re: Power Supply Hum and Cabinet Cooling Questions
>
> >
> > In the back, in the bottom, in the *center* of the cabinet. Then you 
>make a wiring "tree" with
> > 14ga wire.
>
>Just for clarification, if using 14ga. from a Power One to distribution
>terminal blocks and/or 960's then 14 ga. should be used from the Power One
>to the power switch and connector/fuse (?).
>Jeff
>
>
>
>________________________________________________________________________
>________________________________________________________________________
>
>Message: 9
>    Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2001 14:01:18 -0600 (CST)
>    From: Jeffrey Pontius <jpont@...>
>Subject: Re: Honkin' supplies, Part #2
>
> >
> > As a rule: assume every modules will draw 40ma off each supply EXCEPT 
>the EGs, use 10ma. Add up
> > the current (don't worry about + and - current). Then, divide by 0.8 and 
>that is what the current
> > (1 side) of the supply needs to be AS A MINIMUM.
> >
>Since I've been going through 'more power'  process over the last month
>and computing amperage draw, be aware that some other modules have more
>amperage draw than motm modules.  For example, Blacet Klangwerk and Time
>Machines draw more than 40 mA (I think the TM is about 95 mA - John
>correct me if I am wrong); and the UEG draws 60 mA.
>Blacet and Encore have these values listed on their module manuals.
>Jeff
>
>
>
>________________________________________________________________________
>________________________________________________________________________
>
>Message: 10
>    Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2001 13:02:22 -0700
>    From: Scott Juskiw <scott@...>
>Subject: Re: Power Supply Location & Cooling
>
>At 3:42 PM +0000 1/12/01, phaneber@... wrote:
> >I have cut holes in
> >the back of each row with a hole saw to allow the heat to flow upward
> >along the back of the cabinet.  My idea with fans was to put one in
> >the lower left back side drawing in and one in the upper tight back
> >blowing out.
>
>I would be concerned about having a fan that blows "into" the box.
>Cooling aside, I've seen such arrangements pump a lot of dust and
>junk into the box. You may find the module nearest that fan coated
>with dust before too long.
>
>Sounds like you've got a great synth in the works, can't wait to see
>some pictures of it (hint hint). ;-)
>--
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Scott Juskiw
>scott@...
>
>
>
>________________________________________________________________________
>________________________________________________________________________
>
>Message: 11
>    Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2001 13:17:24 -0700
>    From: Scott Juskiw <scott@...>
>Subject: Re: Honkin' supplies, Part #2
>
>At 2:01 PM -0600 1/12/01, Jeffrey Pontius wrote:
> >  >
> >>  As a rule: assume every modules will draw 40ma off each supply
> >>EXCEPT the EGs, use 10ma. Add up
> >>  the current (don't worry about + and - current). Then, divide by
> >>0.8 and that is what the current
> >>  (1 side) of the supply needs to be AS A MINIMUM.
> >>
> >Since I've been going through 'more power'  process over the last month
> >and computing amperage draw, be aware that some other modules have more
> >amperage draw than motm modules.  For example, Blacet Klangwerk and Time
> >Machines draw more than 40 mA (I think the TM is about 95 mA - John
> >correct me if I am wrong); and the UEG draws 60 mA.
> >Blacet and Encore have these values listed on their module manuals.
> >Jeff
>
>When designing my cabinets I used a spreadsheet that let me try out
>different configurations of modules so that I could estimate the
>power draw and the number of power supply connectors required. I used
>the published power draw spec for each module, if available.
>Otherwise, I used an average value of all the other modules. This let
>me take into account the more power hungry modules like the Time
>Machine and UEG. In the end I came up with results that were fairly
>close to "Schreiber's law".
>--
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Scott Juskiw
>scott@...
>
>
>
>________________________________________________________________________
>________________________________________________________________________
>
>Message: 12
>    Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2001 16:08:45 EST
>    From: jwbarlow@...
>Subject: Re: Honkin' supplies, Part #2
>
>In a message dated 12/1/01 12:18:22 PM Pacific Standard Time,
>scott@... writes:
>
>
> > "Schreiber's law".
>
>Good name for a 70's TV series! "When electrons and music collide, there's
>only one thing you really trust -- Schreiber's Law! Right after Love Boat
>this Fall on ABC."
>
>
>I'd allow for easy access to the power supply so that tweaking the voltages
>is not a real chore.
>
>JB
>
>
>[This message contained attachments]
>
>
>
>________________________________________________________________________
>________________________________________________________________________
>
>Message: 13
>    Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2001 16:21:47 -0600
>    From: "Paul Schreiber" <synth1@...>
>Subject: Re: Power Supply Hum and Cabinet Cooling Questions
>
>For AC wiring, you use 16ga, 600V rated insulation wire.
>
>Paul S.
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Jeffrey Pontius" <jpont@...>
>To: "Paul Schreiber" <synth1@...>
>Cc: <motm@egroups.com>
>Sent: Saturday, December 01, 2001 1:53 PM
>Subject: Re: [motm] Power Supply Hum and Cabinet Cooling Questions
>
>
> > >
> > > In the back, in the bottom, in the *center* of the cabinet. Then you 
>make a wiring "tree"
>with
> > > 14ga wire.
> >
> > Just for clarification, if using 14ga. from a Power One to distribution
> > terminal blocks and/or 960's then 14 ga. should be used from the Power 
>One
> > to the power switch and connector/fuse (?).
> > Jeff
> >
>
>
>
>________________________________________________________________________
>________________________________________________________________________
>
>Message: 14
>    Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2001 19:09:48 -0800 (PST)
>    From: alt-mode <alt_mode@...>
>Subject: Re: That EMS sound...
>
>[Catching up on some old posts...]
>
>I think the "special" characteristics of the VCS3 are not so much from the
>oscillators and filter but from the unique interface and packaging.  
>Consequently,
>it is possible to get the "sound" from other modules but the UI will be 
>very
>different.  Here are a few of the features that contribute to the 
>uniqueness of the
>instrument.
>
>- Joystick and trigger button (I haven't played one with a keyboard so the
>limitation causes you to think about sounds that are not driven by a 
>keyboard.)
>
>- Patch matrix.  This is sometimes the source of "happy accidents" as you 
>get the
>patches wrong.  There are also some interactions when plugging pins into 
>the matrix
>that would make Paul S. wretch but they can make for creative opportunities 
>if you
>are open to them.
>
>- The rather unique trapezoid functions - an EG that I don't think I can 
>quite
>describe.
>
>- Continuous waveshape on the oscillators
>
>- Hot signals that can overload, if desired.
>
>So, I think you can get some of the "sounds" of a VCS3 with MOTM modules 
>but you
>won't be able to get the character and the UI on anything else.  I think 
>the only
>other synth that comes close these days is the Wiard with the dual 
>joysticks and
>unique modules but it is still a very different beast!  Whether a VCS3 is 
>worth the
>price and the wait or find one used, is entirely up to you...
>
>    Eric
>
>--- Graham Hunter <pacific202@...> wrote:
> > A few years ago I was able to spend an afternoon with a VCS3 and was
> > amazed at the huge variety of sounds I could coax from it.  Since then
> > I've heard them used in various places and the fascination remains.
> >
> > Then, I heard that EMS is still active and manufacturing both the VCS3
> > and Synthi A.  Hmmmm, now that I'm no longer a starving student these
> > are now within reach... but then my MOTM addiction took hold and I
> > realized that I could probably get pretty close with some more modules.
> >
> > So I'd like to ask the other list members that may have had exposure to
> > the VCS3 about the "special" characteristics of this beast.  I don't
> > think it will be as easier as putting a spring reverb beside a few
> > oscillators and filters.
> >
> > How close do you think an MOTM system can get?  Paul will be glad to
> > hear that I'd rather send the $2500-$3000 to him to expand my MOTM than
> > wait a year for a VCS3 :^)
> >
> > Graham
> >
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month.
> > http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to 
>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
>
>
>__________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Buy the perfect holiday gifts at Yahoo! Shopping.
>http://shopping.yahoo.com
>
>
>________________________________________________________________________
>________________________________________________________________________
>
>Message: 15
>    Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2001 23:01:13 -0500
>    From: "Tkacs, Ken" <ken.tkacs@...>
>Subject: RE: Mitchell ...
>
>
>I thought "Mitchell's Law" was a sequel to that Joe Don Baker movie that
>MST3K stomped all over...
>
>
>________________________________________________________________________
>________________________________________________________________________
>
>Message: 16
>    Date: Sun, 02 Dec 2001 04:02:29 -0000
>    From: phaneber@...
>Subject: Re: Power Supplies Etc.
>
>First off, thanks to everyone for the suggestions.  I've pretty much
>decided to build the power supplies in their own case with a fan. I
>have a SKB 4-space sitting around unused that I will probably adapt
>for that purpose.  I'm going to put two 5A +/- 15V Power One supplies
>in the box to allow for expansion.  I have modules either purchased or
>on order to fill about 140 of the 170 spaces in my case.  I have used
>published power supply requirements and extrapolating to a full case
>come up with about 3.75 A on the plus side and about 3A on the minus
>side, which is within Paul's 80% rule.  I will use the second supply
>as a backup and for future expansion.
>As far as airflow within the cabinet, its sort of like a resistor, any
>bends and slots the air has to flow through are resistors and the fan
>is the electromagnetic potential.  Two fans, one in and one out helps
>to overcome the resistance and allows for greater airflow, (current.)
>I'm not to worried about dust.  This thing is staying in the studio,
>where it's being built, and the studio is pretty clean, no smoking
>etc.  But I may try the cabinet without fans first and just see how
>hot it gets.  I'll possibly stick a couple of thermocouples in it and
>let it heat up.  As I said before I calculate 90 watts heat generation
>for the whole cabinet if the supply is isolated.  Thats really not a
>lot spread over 20 sq. ft. of panel.
>I hope to get pictures of this thing soon.  I've got the case in
>pretty good shape, but I'm working on the finish as this thing was a
>bookshelf for a long time, and its a little scarred where I tore the
>shelves out.  Thats not as bad as it sounds because I built the
>bookshelf originally.  I'm way behind on building modules though, I've
>got about 17 built out of about 40 received, I'm still waiting on 30
>something modules from Paul, something like 9 from Oakley and 4 from
>Stooge Larry, plus a whole lot of stooge panels.  I'm still working on
>a few of my own designs as well.
>Anyway Thanks to all.
>Paul Haneberg
Here's the deal:
I've been working on powering/connecting/building an enclosure for a couple 
of old mic pre/eq modules.
What I''ve found I need is a TRS jack for the insert that can be configured 
so that the circuit is normally closed (is that the right term?)---where the 
signal passes through the jack when nothing is inserted.
Unfortunately the diagrams in the mouser catalog aren't making much sense to 
me today, but I feel certain at least one person here can give me the part # 
off the top of his head.
Thank you for the help.

Tom R
(as always, putting the OT in MOTM)

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