Milter-greylist

Hi,

in a lot of cases I get temp fails from yahoo's servers and mails sent 
to this list are delayed for hours, because their servers are too busy:

------
Dec 12 20:27:19 lillith sm-mta[3090]: uBCHB0HJ020512: 
to=<milter-greylist@yahoogroups.com>, delay=02:16:17, xdelay=00:00:01, 
mailer=esmtp, pri=2191280, relay=fo-mx-groups.mail.am0.yahoodns.net. 
[66.218.74.235], dsn=4.0.0, stat=Deferred: 451 Resources temporarily not 
available - Please try again later [#4.16.5].
------

see: https://sg.help.yahoo.com/kb/xx-smtp-error-codes-sln26151.html

Another grotesque point for a discussion list about greylisting is, that 
yahoo's common pool servers have to be whitelisted, because they don't 
retry. Is that a place to be?

A plan could be to move to another service. Subscribed users would be 
migrated (btw: who is the list owner?). Emmanuel Dreyfus asked me to 
post this plan to the list and call for opposition.

Any suggestions for another service, e.g. google mailing lists?

Ciao
Marcus

"Marcus Schopen lists-yahoogroups@... [milter-greylist]"
<milter-greylist@yahoogroups.com> writes:

> Hi,
>
> in a lot of cases I get temp fails from yahoo's servers and mails sent 
> to this list are delayed for hours, because their servers are too busy:
>
> ------
> Dec 12 20:27:19 lillith sm-mta[3090]: uBCHB0HJ020512: 
> to=<milter-greylist@yahoogroups.com>, delay=02:16:17, xdelay=00:00:01, 
> mailer=esmtp, pri=2191280, relay=fo-mx-groups.mail.am0.yahoodns.net. 
> [66.218.74.235], dsn=4.0.0, stat=Deferred: 451 Resources temporarily not 
> available - Please try again later [#4.16.5].
> ------
>
> see: https://sg.help.yahoo.com/kb/xx-smtp-error-codes-sln26151.html
>
> Another grotesque point for a discussion list about greylisting is, that 
> yahoo's common pool servers have to be whitelisted, because they don't 
> retry. Is that a place to be?
>
> A plan could be to move to another service. Subscribed users would be 
> migrated (btw: who is the list owner?). Emmanuel Dreyfus asked me to 
> post this plan to the list and call for opposition.

Moving would be a good thing.

> Any suggestions for another service, e.g. google mailing lists?

But, I think Free Software projects should be hosted by charitable
organizations with free software as a goal.   Google lists in particular
are not friendly to those who decline to accept google's terms and have
a google login.  (While they can be made to work, the group pages do not
give instructions for signing up without an account.)

So, I would be inclined to have the project on a FSFE server, or on
savannah.nongnu.org, or someplace like that.

However, I'm not volunteering, so take this with a grain of salt.

Hi Greg,

On 2016-12-14 13:04, Greg Troxel gdt@... [milter-greylist] wrote:
[...]
> Moving would be a good thing.
> 
>> Any suggestions for another service, e.g. google mailing lists?
> 
> But, I think Free Software projects should be hosted by charitable
> organizations with free software as a goal.   Google lists in 
> particular
> are not friendly to those who decline to accept google's terms and have
> a google login.  (While they can be made to work, the group pages do 
> not
> give instructions for signing up without an account.)

I think one can subscribe or unsubscribe without having an account like

   mygroup+unsubscribe@...
   mygroup+subscribe@...

> So, I would be inclined to have the project on a FSFE server, or on
> savannah.nongnu.org, or someplace like that.
> 
> However, I'm not volunteering, so take this with a grain of salt.

Good point. I like that idea too.

What about archives? Starting from scratch and freezing the list at 
yahoo? Or is there a way to export the mails from yahoo? My personal 
mails go back to 04/2010, when I subscribed to the list. May be someone 
has the full archive locally.

Ciao
Marcus

"Marcus Schopen lists-yahoogroups@... [milter-greylist]"
<milter-greylist@yahoogroups.com> writes:

> Hi Greg,
>
> On 2016-12-14 13:04, Greg Troxel gdt@... [milter-greylist] wrote:
> [...]
>> Moving would be a good thing.
>> 
>>> Any suggestions for another service, e.g. google mailing lists?
>> 
>> But, I think Free Software projects should be hosted by charitable
>> organizations with free software as a goal.   Google lists in 
>> particular
>> are not friendly to those who decline to accept google's terms and have
>> a google login.  (While they can be made to work, the group pages do 
>> not
>> give instructions for signing up without an account.)
>
> I think one can subscribe or unsubscribe without having an account like
>
>    mygroup+unsubscribe@...
>    mygroup+subscribe@googlegroups.com

Yes, you can do it.  But it is hard to figure out, and I think it's
unreasonable that the group description page does not contain those
instructions.

Greg Troxel gdt@... [milter-greylist]
<milter-greylist@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

> > I think one can subscribe or unsubscribe without having an account like
> >
> >    mygroup+unsubscribe@...
> >    mygroup+subscribe@...
> 
> Yes, you can do it.  But it is hard to figure out, and I think it's
> unreasonable that the group description page does not contain those
> instructions.

Moreover, administration will require a Google login, and a Google login
requires accepting Google TOS, in which one accepts to be tracked.

-- 
Emmanuel Dreyfus
http://hcpnet.free.fr/pubz
manu@...