Synth-DIY Yahoo! Groups Archives

VST gui Plugin Sneak Peek

2014-03-16 by <bperkins211@...>

I have started to dig in to the GUI I've been working on and posted for download awhile back.
I managed to make it so it can be ran as a VST plugin and only have tried it with FL Studio 11 so far..

It's a little tricky, but it does allow me to assign any midi controller to the GUI knob, and thus the GUI knob in turn creates CC's required to change any parameter and outputs the msg's on my USB midi out.
So I am happily using an Akai MPK61's nice faders and rotary controls to control any parameter in the HAWK 800... or use any other controller that sends standard CC's since the plugin translates an incoming CC to the special pair of CC's needed to change a selected parameter in the HAWK800.
I can even use the D Beam controllers on my SP-808 to control parameters! I just use this plugin to translate ANY incoming CC's to msgs the HAWK can use.

Additionally, I have found I can do an "events" window to draw out the waveform the VCF (or any other parameter) will follow..
Here is a vid of my attempt to do a Bass Wobble effect using FL to draw the modulation waves..

http://youtu.be/shpsqnHRDdo

it's very short and the audio is out of sync, but it gets the point across what can be done.. ANY parameter can be controlled like this.
You can see in the vid the filter knob (red) is following the waveform (Pattern2). This is raw sound from the HAWK, no FX were added, short of automated control of the VCF.
To hear some FX thrown in, check this clip-
https://soundcloud.com/sythetech/hawkwobblefx-soundclip

The only catch is that you must use a top clipped waveform, like a square wave, in order to do quick modulations/changes.
Seems the HAWK isnt fast enough to follow a quickly moving sine wave or any short peaked waves.. due to all the msgs getting crammed in.. the square/clipped top waveforms can work in faster cycles because it is less msgs being sent due to the longer period of a steady value (the HAWK can catch up to the changes).
A very long ramped triangle or sine wave can work, but it must be sllllloooowwww.

-Blaine

Re: VST gui Plugin Sneak Peek

2014-03-17 by <domgoold@...>

hey that looks really cool - you can always thin out the CC data, can't you.
thanks for pointing out that MIDI CC knob prefab :D excellent, hadn't seen
that - have you managed to send any sysex messages yet?(i would like
to do plugins for more machines)
cheers
Dom

Re: VST gui Plugin Sneak Peek

2014-03-18 by <bperkins211@...>

Thanks Dom.
I doubt I can thin the data out enough. I have tried many different ways w/out any luck.
I have done this to my Kawai K3 and it performs marvelously and can keep up with the quick changing CC msgs.

I may try doing it with the standard CC msg for Filter instead of the "Quick Parameter" edit using two CC's to change one parameter.. just like NRPN.

Here's a download link to the GUI when I first posted it..

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_IDH8cQH_eNUlQtZ2MxNURKVWc/edit?usp=sharing

The Ctrlr app I used to make the GUI can do sysex and scripts.
I made scripts to have GUI call out a sysex patch dump from the HAWK so it can set all the GUI controls to their approx. positions.. a "snapshot" feature.
Not all the knobs in the above version have been completed to do a snapshot. Most the important upper ones do though.. like LFO waveforms and the knobs on the faux Poly800 surface.
I have managed to create ADBSSR graphic waveforms for all the EG's. Just need to figure out how to invert them when "invert" is chosen for an EG..

The Kawai K3 GUI I did uses all sysex msgs to change the parameters on it using lsb msb split data bytes, etc.
So yea, it can do any sysex msg you want.
Ctrlr is very powerful... has its quirks, but is quite flexible.

what machines did you have in mind to do?
many are already done for Ctrlr.

-Blaine

Re: VST gui Plugin Sneak Peek

2014-03-19 by <snugglepussyisme@...>

This is truly awesome, thanks for sharing your hard work! Do you plan to release a VST-enabled version soon?Thanks for doing this!!! I've been wanting to integrate visual patch creation with the HAWK into my DAW for a long time.

Re: VST gui Plugin Sneak Peek

2014-03-19 by <domgoold@...>

ah you've mastered Ctrlr - i've found that quite painful to get around,
so i left it alone, but i think he develops it all the time. i think i wished
it could lock off properly once you have your panel, but it's really easy
to end up messing it up - or i don't get it yet.

i have of course grabbed all panelz every time i visit, in case, i'm a notorious
freeware hoarder!!

i used sysex back with the atari and made maps for things like SY85, JV,
e-mu, some alesis effects; - if the hawk does sysex, it may be a better
way > ach, but the flood of data may just end up crashing the old ex/poly
or causing a traffic jam - are all the poly's parameters mapped to CC, or are
you using rpn/nrpn? and how does that work, in a GUI based editor, if you
have to send those message 'simultaneously' (on a serial bus? wdf.)

somewhere recently, i have seen a synthedit prefab of a single MIDI knob,
which of course in multiples can be arranged to build a VST controller, but
don't rember if it is CC or sysex. - i've got really used to building graphics
in knobman and skinman and making GUIs like that, and with the SE
subcontrols, i can do pretty much what i want with flipping panels, even
GUIside sequencers, etc. - so conceivably another editor could be built
with SE if i can suss it out, a bit of a quest for me, sending sysex from
VST. i really miss the easy atari-cubase dialogue.
trouble is: sysex has been overlooked by designers in a few things,
including ableton, and i don't think it's all that great over(some?) USB.

Re: VST gui Plugin Sneak Peek

2014-03-19 by <domgoold@...>

do you have to deal with 'float' in Ctrlr?
if you want it to reset centre, that's 0.5 on a 0 to 1 range,
even if your values go eg: -1 to +1(it would reset at value=0)
but that's SE speak -please gen me up on Ctrlr.

there's great module for SE, DD doubleclick reset, which offers
random as well, i use that for all my control objects.

Re: VST gui Plugin Sneak Peek

2014-03-19 by <domgoold@...>

ah! now i remember where i got the digital font from :)
i'm using it here - didn't Mike want a digital font? that's pretty good,
except it aligns wrong for a digi-display..no: it doesn't show 01, 02, 03 etc.
it goes 1,2,3, etc. and these end up centre( in knobman anyway, couldn't
get it to show like a real LCD, you have to do it 'manually'

Re: [korgpolyex] Re: VST gui Plugin Sneak Peek

2014-03-20 by Michael Hawkins

1) HAWK does not have a sysex message for changing a single parameter. That's a feature I should add to the code.

2) There are MIDI CC's for every HAWK parameter.

Even in large quantities and at high rates, the HAWK has an 8K buffer for MIDI traffic and is rather good at handling a lot of MIDI CC data. So I don't understand why HAWK can't handle your GUI CC's.

Mike

On Wednesday, March 19, 2014 2:47 PM, "domgoold@..." <domgoold@...> wrote:

ah! now i remember where i got the digital font from :)
i'm using it here - didn't Mike want a digital font? that's pretty good,
except it aligns wrong for a digi-display..no: it doesn't show 01, 02, 03 etc.
it goes 1,2,3, etc. and these end up centre( in knobman anyway, couldn't
get it to show like a real LCD, you have to do it 'manually'

Re: [korgpolyex] Re: VST gui Plugin Sneak Peek

2014-03-20 by <bperkins211@...>

I think the problem is when I use a software induced LFO, drawn out and it tries to send to the HAWK very quickly a series of numbers between 0-99, twice. One for CC 84 (param. select) and the other for CC 85 (value).
So it can get close to trying to digest 200 CC's in a fraction of a second.
My experience with other issues is it it can bog down.. I have seen it do so when I would have many notes going on and about 3 pairs of NRPN's being moved (using "MIDI OUT" plugin on FL).. eventually notes got skipped and the parameter changes started to fall on their faces.

when I use the same Ctrlr app to make a GUI for a Kawai K3 to wobble bass the filter, the K3 keeps up just fine.. but in it's case it is a steady flow of sysex msgs, rather than a pair of NRPN's or CC's.
It's like night and day between HAWK and K3.
The HAWK does ok at really slow LFO waveforms, but once it goes too fast, I watch the LED status try to show the "CC 21 **" msg, but it wont change numbers, just sits in a stupor.. unless you use a square wave, or clip the top to make a faux square wave so it can catch up at the flat spots of the waveforms.

Maybe if I change the Filter to use just the standard.. CC71, use it instead so it's only sending one CC change out and perhaps halve the data.

I did try out a VST instance of the GUI in Ableton Live 9 last nite and after a crash course in midi mapping, I quickly had Live using the GUI to translate standard CC's into paired CC's to change parameters.. I need to actually hook the HAWK up and listen/watch for results next..
I might have a VST plugin soon.. incomplete, but something to give a try on FL or Live.

~Blaine

Re: [korgpolyex] Re: VST gui Plugin Sneak Peek

2014-03-20 by Michael Hawkins

"software induced LFO"

I guess there might be a time resolution option that you can set to slow down the number of CC's that are sent for any shape waveform. If there was such an option, that would help.

Mike

On Thursday, March 20, 2014 1:18 PM, "bperkins211@..." <bperkins211@...> wrote:

I think the problem is when I use a software induced LFO, drawn out and it tries to send to the HAWK very quickly a series of numbers between 0-99, twice. One for CC 84 (param. select) and the other for CC 85 (value).
So it can get close to trying to digest 200 CC's in a fraction of a second.
My experience with other issues is it it can bog down.. I have seen it do so when I would have many notes going on and about 3 pairs of NRPN's being moved (using "MIDI OUT" plugin on FL).. eventually notes got skipped and the parameter changes started to fall on their faces.

when I use the same Ctrlr app to make a GUI for a Kawai K3 to wobble bass the filter, the K3 keeps up just fine.. but in it's case it is a steady flow of sysex msgs, rather than a pair of NRPN's or CC's.
It's like night and day between HAWK and K3.
The HAWK does ok at really slow LFO waveforms, but once it goes too fast, I watch the LED status try to show the "CC 21 **" msg, but it wont change numbers, just sits in a stupor.. unless you use a square wave, or clip the top to make a faux square wave so it can catch up at the flat spots of the waveforms.

Maybe if I change the Filter to use just the standard.. CC71, use it instead so it's only sending one CC change out and perhaps halve the data.

I did try out a VST instance of the GUI in Ableton Live 9 last nite and after a crash course in midi mapping, I quickly had Live using the GUI to translate standard CC's into paired CC's to change parameters.. I need to actually hook the HAWK up and listen/watch for results next..
I might have a VST plugin soon.. incomplete, but something to give a try on FL or Live.

~Blaine

Re: [korgpolyex] Re: VST gui Plugin Sneak Peek

2014-03-20 by Alex Drinkwater

Having a stepped LFO quantized to MIDI clock divisions is also quite cool as an effect in its own right.

a|x

From: Michael Hawkins <korgpolyex800@...>
To: "korgpolyex@yahoogroups.com" <korgpolyex@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, 20 March 2014, 19:52
Subject: Re: [korgpolyex] Re: VST gui Plugin Sneak Peek

"software induced LFO"

I guess there might be a time resolution option that you can set to slow down the number of CC's that are sent for any shape waveform. If there was such an option, that would help.

Mike

On Thursday, March 20, 2014 1:18 PM, "bperkins211@..." <bperkins211@...> wrote:

I think the problem is when I use a software induced LFO, drawn out and it tries to send to the HAWK very quickly a series of numbers between 0-99, twice. One for CC 84 (param. select) and the other for CC 85 (value).
So it can get close to trying to digest 200 CC's in a fraction of a second.
My experience with other issues is it it can bog down.. I have seen it do so when I would have many notes going on and about 3 pairs of NRPN's being moved (using "MIDI OUT" plugin on FL).. eventually notes got skipped and the parameter changes started to fall on their faces.

when I use the same Ctrlr app to make a GUI for a Kawai K3 to wobble bass the filter, the K3 keeps up just fine.. but in it's case it is a steady flow of sysex msgs, rather than a pair of NRPN's or CC's.
It's like night and day between HAWK and K3.
The HAWK does ok at really slow LFO waveforms, but once it goes too fast, I watch the LED status try to show the "CC 21 **" msg, but it wont change numbers, just sits in a stupor.. unless you use a square wave, or clip the top to make a faux square wave so it can catch up at the flat spots of the waveforms.

Maybe if I change the Filter to use just the standard.. CC71, use it instead so it's only sending one CC change out and perhaps halve the data.

I did try out a VST instance of the GUI in Ableton Live 9 last nite and after a crash course in midi mapping, I quickly had Live using the GUI to translate standard CC's into paired CC's to change parameters.. I need to actually hook the HAWK up and listen/watch for results next..
I might have a VST plugin soon.. incomplete, but something to give a try on FL or Live.

~Blaine

Re: [korgpolyex] Re: VST gui Plugin Sneak Peek

2014-03-20 by <bperkins211@...>

there may be ways to decrease the "resolution" of data from the soft LFO.

The one I have used so far is FL and there are tweaks for MIDI controls I have yet to discover. It can invert the data, normalize center with a small deadspot (like pitchbenders), make logarithmic or linear curves.. etc.

Live will have similar tweaks and perhaps a set of it's own.

Last night it seemed I could get Live mapped to controls faster than I do with FL.

I agree that a sync gated LFO effect will have a ton of uses.. I just now got the 2 DAWs to speak back and forth with the GUI.. so many things to explore in just FL and Live alone. Now that the connection has been made.

Re: [korgpolyex] Re: VST gui Plugin Sneak Peek

2014-03-21 by <domgoold@...>

Blaine, try just faking the LFO with events spaced at 16ths or somet'ing, that
should be more than enough to get a reasonable curve - i listen to some things,
where people complain about 0-127 resolution(stepping'non-analogue'etc)-i think it
is trivial 99% of the time - you can't really tell all that much. i had the ju106, which
is usually cited for this next to ju60/6 and had the alpha too (now have mks50),
and yeah the later ones do show some stepping but only on specific patches,
and it's often been used as part of the sweep effect - with offset pulse periods,
you get a stepped waveform too - i love the alpha, basic and effective.
(may have said this before, lousy memory)

Mike: 'awesome, dood' MIDI CC for everything, that is the tops - by far the
easiest. sysex is an unintuitive shag, really. i know i can easily do a SE
plugin for it now :))))) and i think i now understand rpn/nrpn a bit better:
it seems that if you think of the msb+lsb as a combined single number,
eg 14000, (what's that in hex, msb/lsb...), that works as a parameter address
with synthedit, it seems - so would that be a way to get finer value resolution, don't
know(just waffling..) - not at all sure about this yet - i'll get round to knocking up
a mini filter control unit maybe first with a few params -hey not trying to muscle in
or anything, just thinking ;-)
btw: go to Soundbytes dot whatever, and look for his MIDIknob prefab, that's the
one, dead easy. the modules work fine, i've used them for some tests before.
can be very easy to have a selfcontained VSTi for this. i'm working on a 16 step
sequencer with pattern memories and vari-bpm tempo, randomizer, acccent,
porta on/off, very easy interface, click UI, could be fun to add to it.(almost done,
need to check the MIDI out bus) with MIDI CC, no issues whatsoever via USB,
etc. and it will work in ableton too(no sysex handling)-i suppose you can even do
sequential type full patch dump/load with MIDI CC(?)

*and*, Mike, i have something for you re: that LCD, pretty nice. i made a knobman file
this morning, you can have any colour you want, double quick -but it is only
0-99 at present. i'll send you the file a bit later, and you can generate your
own image strips from it. i also found a shedload of LCD fonts the other day,
lots of different ones. knobman and skinman are your friends for this, and
i use paintdotnet for editing.

i'm considering making a new case for my remote zero out of aluminium
so i can rack it - yet another 'idea'/project with dubious chances of completion..
don't know why they don't do that anyway, these days.
(that's all for now! )

Re: [korgpolyex] Re: VST gui Plugin Sneak Peek

2014-03-22 by Michael Hawkins

"Can the HAWK do sequential type full patch dump/load with MIDI CC(?)"

A: I am not quite sure I understand what you mean. Can you rephrase the question?

"Mike, i have something for you re: that LCD, pretty nice"

I am not sure what you're talking about. Care to elaborate?

Mike

On Friday, March 21, 2014 6:32 AM, "domgoold@..." <domgoold@...> wrote:

Blaine, try just faking the LFO with events spaced at 16ths or somet'ing, that
should be more than enough to get a reasonable curve - i listen to some things,
where people complain about 0-127 resolution(stepping'non-analogue'etc)-i think it
is trivial 99% of the time - you can't really tell all that much. i had the ju106, which
is usually cited for this next to ju60/6 and had the alpha too (now have mks50),
and yeah the later ones do show some stepping but only on specific patches,
and it's often been used as part of the sweep effect - with offset pulse periods,
you get a stepped waveform too - i love the alpha, basic and effective.
(may have said this before, lousy memory)

Mike: 'awesome, dood' MIDI CC for everything, that is the tops - by far the
easiest. sysex is an unintuitive shag, really. i know i can easily do a SE
plugin for it now :))))) and i think i now understand rpn/nrpn a bit better:
it seems that if you think of the msb+lsb as a combined single number,
eg 14000, (what's that in hex, msb/lsb...), that works as a parameter address
with synthedit, it seems - so would that be a way to get finer value resolution, don't
know(just waffling..) - not at all sure about this yet - i'll get round to knocking up
a mini filter control unit maybe first with a few params -hey not trying to muscle in
or anything, just thinking ;-)
btw: go to Soundbytes dot whatever, and look for his MIDIknob prefab, that's the
one, dead easy. the modules work fine, i've used them for some tests before.
can be very easy to have a selfcontained VSTi for this. i'm working on a 16 step
sequencer with pattern memories and vari-bpm tempo, randomizer, acccent,
porta on/off, very easy interface, click UI, could be fun to add to it.(almost done,
need to check the MIDI out bus) with MIDI CC, no issues whatsoever via USB,
etc. and it will work in ableton too(no sysex handling)-i suppose you can even do
sequential type full patch dump/load with MIDI CC(?)

*and*, Mike, i have something for you re: that LCD, pretty nice. i made a knobman file
this morning, you can have any colour you want, double quick -but it is only
0-99 at present. i'll send you the file a bit later, and you can generate your
own image strips from it. i also found a shedload of LCD fonts the other day,
lots of different ones. knobman and skinman are your friends for this, and
i use paintdotnet for editing.

i'm considering making a new case for my remote zero out of aluminium
so i can rack it - yet another 'idea'/project with dubious chances of completion..
don't know why they don't do that anyway, these days.
(that's all for now! )

Re: [korgpolyex] Re: VST gui Plugin Sneak Peek

2014-03-22 by <domgoold@...>

ah :D

wow, was a bit voluble/hyper yesterday :) and mixing discussion
with creating plugin. was wondering if you can restore a patch
sending MIDI CCs instead of sending a sysex message.

you mentioned wanting an LCD font - here is a knobman file like the
one i use to make an LCD 'fader':

https://app.box.com/s/1g22c4kogn8sg843x5u3

made in knobman v1.45 - should load in v1.50 here:
http://www.g200kg.com/software/knobman150.zip
(if any prob i can send 1.45)

Re: [korgpolyex] Re: VST gui Plugin Sneak Peek

2014-03-22 by <domgoold@...>

(you had asked for a LCD font)

Re: [korgpolyex] Re: VST gui Plugin Sneak Peek

2014-03-22 by <bperkins211@...>

Dom, the only way to dump from or to the HAWK via MIDI is with a Sysex msg that begins with a few bytes of header info followed by either a single dump for one patch, or the entire bank of patches.. depending on which msg you send.

If you read the MIDI Implimentation Chart, at the end it shows you the Sysex msg..

F0 42 21 06 0x 0h(1) 0l(1) ... 0h(128) 0l(128) F7

the header is the first few bytes, then is followed by split bytes(msb/lsb) that contain values for each parameter.

Mike- the LCD/LED font he is telling you about is a font to try and use on your PDF HAWK Parameters decal design/overlay that has the misaligned LED fonts.

HTH's
-Blaine

Re: [korgpolyex] Re: VST gui Plugin Sneak Peek

2014-03-23 by <domgoold@...>

yes, and that knobman file is what i consider an optimal way to
make these as custom graphics: i've made the same one before
with much more effort! :) this is super easy, any colour you like,
ready to improve to taste. offering the benefits of my lazy graphics..