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Re: [exs] Interested in EXS24

Re: [exs] Interested in EXS24

2002-07-01 by Ned Bouhalassa

Rob,

Giga doesn't run on Mac. Halion is ok, but my 
advice is to buy EXS now, and purchase Kontakt 
when the Mac version comes out. Kontakt has more 
features than EXS and Halion, but is said to take 
up much more CPU. So you might want to use Kontakt 
for that one or two really cool patch in you mix, 
and use another 16 EXS samplers for the more 
'traditional' patches. EXS is rock solid, very 
well integrated in Logic and will be updated later 
this year (more features). A wonderful tool, for sure.

Ned

spiritus_mundi_1920 wrote:

 > What can you tell me?  Is EXS a wonderful tool, or are there
> problems I should know about?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Rob Yale




http://www.nedfx.com

       Ned Bouhalassa

n e d @ n e d f x . c o m

RE: [exs] Interested in EXS24

2002-07-01 by Rob Yale

Thanks.  Sounds like a good plan!

Rob
Show quoted textHide quoted text
-----Original Message-----
From: Ned Bouhalassa [mailto:ned@...] 
Sent: June 30, 2002 11:26 PM
To: exs-users@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [exs] Interested in EXS24

Rob,

Giga doesn't run on Mac. Halion is ok, but my 
advice is to buy EXS now, and purchase Kontakt 
when the Mac version comes out. Kontakt has more 
features than EXS and Halion, but is said to take 
up much more CPU. So you might want to use Kontakt 
for that one or two really cool patch in you mix, 
and use another 16 EXS samplers for the more 
'traditional' patches. EXS is rock solid, very 
well integrated in Logic and will be updated later 
this year (more features). A wonderful tool, for sure.

Ned

spiritus_mundi_1920 wrote:

> What can you tell me?  Is EXS a wonderful tool, or are there
> problems I should know about?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Rob Yale




http://www.nedfx.com

       Ned Bouhalassa

n e d @ n e d f x . c o m







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Re: [exs] Interested in EXS24

2002-07-01 by Nir Averbuch

I wouldn't make a decision based on what "is said" about Kontakt.
My recommendation - wait (just a little bit longer) and see for yourself.

Cheers,
-Nir
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ned Bouhalassa [mailto:ned@nedfx.com]
> Sent: June 30, 2002 11:26 PM
> To: exs-users@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [exs] Interested in EXS24
> 
> Rob,
> 
> Giga doesn't run on Mac. Halion is ok, but my
> advice is to buy EXS now, and purchase Kontakt
> when the Mac version comes out. Kontakt has more
> features than EXS and Halion, but is said to take
> up much more CPU. So you might want to use Kontakt
> for that one or two really cool patch in you mix,
> and use another 16 EXS samplers for the more
> 'traditional' patches. EXS is rock solid, very
> well integrated in Logic and will be updated later
> this year (more features). A wonderful tool, for sure.
> 
> Ned
> 
> spiritus_mundi_1920 wrote:
> 
>> What can you tell me?  Is EXS a wonderful tool, or are there
>> problems I should know about?
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> 
>> Rob Yale
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.nedfx.com
> 
>        Ned Bouhalassa
> 
> n e d @ n e d f x . c o m
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send a blank email to:
>    exs-users-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> For a list of places to get free samples please see:
>    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/exs-users/links/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send a blank email to:
> exs-users-unsubscribe@egroups.com
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> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/exs-users/links/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
>

Apple buys Emagic no more Windows support.

2002-07-01 by Phil Buckle

Our Windows brothers would have to be worried about this...............
Can't verify it but it turned up on the TDM list..........
Phil Buckle.



CUPERTINO, California and HAMBURG, Germany -- July 1, 2002 --
Apple today announced it has acquired Emagic, a leading provider of
professional software solutions for computer based music production.
Emagic's most popular product, Logic, is actively used by over 200,000
musicians around the world. Emagic will operate as a wholly owned division
of Apple.

"Emagic has set the industry standard for professional music creation and
production," said Sina Tamaddon, Apple's senior vice president of
Applications. "We're very excited to have the Emagic team join Apple and
create more amazing products for musicians."

Macintosh-based products account for over 65 percent of Emagic's current
revenues. Emagic's Windows-based product offerings will be discontinued on
September 30, 2002.

Apple ignited the personal computer revolution in the 1970s with the Apple
II and reinvented the personal computer in the 1980s with the Macintosh.
Apple is committed to bringing the best personal computing experience to
students, educators, creative professionals and consumers around the world
through its innovative hardware, software and Internet offerings.

RE: [exs] Re: Apple buys Emagic no more Windows support.

2002-07-01 by Matthew Evans-Jones

....as a PC user (just bought a new one when I upgraded to V 5.),  but a
user of Logic since my Atari days of  15 plus years ago, I have to say this
is the most depressing thing I've heard in a long time !

I am seriously F&%?'d Off !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and would
not have lashed out for the upgrade to V5 if I'd known...

...Cubase here I come I guess.....
Show quoted textHide quoted text
 -----Original Message-----
From: sidefxuk [mailto:emoticon@...]
Sent: 01 July 2002 12:46
To: exs-users@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [exs] Re: Apple buys Emagic no more Windows support.


  Phil Buckle <pbuckle@o...> wrote:
  > Can't verify it...

  It's definitely true:

  http://www.emagic.de/english/news/index.html

  Thank God I use a Mac!

  Tom






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RE: [exs] Re: Apple buys Emagic no more Windows support.

2002-07-01 by Matthew Evans-Jones

...just spoke to the UK distributor. They have had a load of calls already,
but even the guys at Emagic didn't know until this morning.

their advice - send an email to info@........

Do I wait to calm down, or do I send one expletives and all....
Show quoted textHide quoted text
  -----Original Message-----
  From: Matthew Evans-Jones [mailto:matt@...]
  Sent: 01 July 2002 13:36
  To: exs-users@yahoogroups.com
  Subject: RE: [exs] Re: Apple buys Emagic no more Windows support.


  ....as a PC user (just bought a new one when I upgraded to V 5.),  but a
  user of Logic since my Atari days of  15 plus years ago, I have to say
this
  is the most depressing thing I've heard in a long time !

  I am seriously F&%?'d Off !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and
would
  not have lashed out for the upgrade to V5 if I'd known...

  ...Cubase here I come I guess.....




  -----Original Message-----
  From: sidefxuk [mailto:emoticon@...]
  Sent: 01 July 2002 12:46
  To: exs-users@yahoogroups.com
  Subject: [exs] Re: Apple buys Emagic no more Windows support.


    Phil Buckle <pbuckle@o...> wrote:
    > Can't verify it...

    It's definitely true:

    http://www.emagic.de/english/news/index.html

    Thank God I use a Mac!

    Tom






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Re: [exs] Interested in EXS24

2002-07-01 by gripette1a

I have it from a reliable source (beta tester) that EXS24 will read 
.gig files in an upcoming update. Be patient.  :-)

Paul

RE: [exs] Re: Apple buys Emagic no more Windows support.

2002-07-01 by Joe Moretti

Sooooooo depressed this is bad bad news - 
 
the education market in UK is all PC  - so
 
 
will schools all change to MACs? I think not - they don't have the dosh
 
so they change to ??? Cubase and a monopoly is created of young musicians
coming through with no interest in Logic whatsoever - this is a disaster for
Education market
 
 
J
Show quoted textHide quoted text
-----Original Message-----
From: Matthew Evans-Jones [mailto:matt@...]
Sent: 01 July 2002 13:47
To: exs-users@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [exs] Re: Apple buys Emagic no more Windows support.


...just spoke to the UK distributor. They have had a load of calls already,
but even the guys at Emagic didn't know until this morning.

their advice - send an email to info@........

Do I wait to calm down, or do I send one expletives and all....
  -----Original Message-----
  From: Matthew Evans-Jones [mailto:matt@...]
  Sent: 01 July 2002 13:36
  To: exs-users@yahoogroups.com
  Subject: RE: [exs] Re: Apple buys Emagic no more Windows support.


  ....as a PC user (just bought a new one when I upgraded to V 5.),  but a
  user of Logic since my Atari days of  15 plus years ago, I have to say
this
  is the most depressing thing I've heard in a long time !

  I am seriously F&%?'d Off !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and
would
  not have lashed out for the upgrade to V5 if I'd known...

  ...Cubase here I come I guess.....




  -----Original Message-----
  From: sidefxuk [mailto:emoticon@...]
  Sent: 01 July 2002 12:46
  To: exs-users@yahoogroups.com
  Subject: [exs] Re: Apple buys Emagic no more Windows support.


    Phil Buckle <pbuckle@o...> wrote:
    > Can't verify it...

    It's definitely true:

    http://www.emagic.de/english/news/index.html
<http://www.emagic.de/english/news/index.html> 

    Thank God I use a Mac!

    Tom






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Re: [exs] Re: Apple buys Emagic no more Windows support.

2002-07-01 by Sascha Franck

> Come on guys. I don't believe that PC users are going to be treated any
less
> kindly than they have in the past. Financially speaking, it would be
harmful
> for Apple to ignore the PC customer base for Emagic.

This is what it says on Emagic's very own website:

"Emagic's Windows-based product offerings will be discontinued on September
30, 2002."

So, if the "offerings" are discontinued, do you think they will develop any
new versions in case they can't "offer" them any longer?

I am seriously pissed! I have been like the most loyal Emagic user (and
tester for that matter, too) for years. Seems that now it's time to move on.

Sascha

Re: [exs] Re: Apple buys Emagic no more Windows support.

2002-07-01 by HELP@MusicBootCamp.com

Come on guys. I don't believe that PC users are going to be treated any less
kindly than they have in the past. Financially speaking, it would be harmful
for Apple to ignore the PC customer base for Emagic.
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> Sooooooo depressed this is bad bad news -
> 
> the education market in UK is all PC  - so
> 
> 
> will schools all change to MACs? I think not - they don't have the dosh
> 
> so they change to ??? Cubase and a monopoly is created of young musicians
> coming through with no interest in Logic whatsoever - this is a disaster for
> Education market
>

RE: [exs] Re: Apple buys Emagic no more Windows support.

2002-07-01 by Matthew Evans-Jones

Here's a copy of the email I sent to Emagic earlier - i'll post any response
I get....


when I invested my time and money into buying, learning, and loyally
following your upgrades since C-lab on my Atari 15 years ago, I did not
dream you would stitch us up like this.

I have your

Platinum 5
Unitor 8
Sound Diver
Audiowerk
EXS24 & ES1

15 years of product loyalty and experience and music

I would not have bought ANY of this kit if I thought for a second you were
going to discontinue windows support.

Please advise how you intend to re-fund all those loyal Windows users, so we
can afford to purchase and transfer all our investments to another
platform -
I know here in the UK we will be protected by UK law with our trading
standards and "fit for purpose" legislation, as well as many other areas if
necessary, but I think it would be courteous and a lot less time consuming
if you could advise me, and others in our user groups, what compensation you
have in mind.

in anticipation of a prompt response, or a free MAC
Show quoted textHide quoted text
  -----Original Message-----
  From: Sascha Franck [mailto:saschafranck@...]
  Sent: 01 July 2002 16:22
  To: exs-users@yahoogroups.com
  Subject: Re: [exs] Re: Apple buys Emagic no more Windows support.


  > Come on guys. I don't believe that PC users are going to be treated any
  less
  > kindly than they have in the past. Financially speaking, it would be
  harmful
  > for Apple to ignore the PC customer base for Emagic.

  This is what it says on Emagic's very own website:

  "Emagic's Windows-based product offerings will be discontinued on
September
  30, 2002."

  So, if the "offerings" are discontinued, do you think they will develop
any
  new versions in case they can't "offer" them any longer?

  I am seriously pissed! I have been like the most loyal Emagic user (and
  tester for that matter, too) for years. Seems that now it's time to move
on.

  Sascha





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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [exs] Re: Apple buys Emagic no more Windows support.

2002-07-01 by HELP@MusicBootCamp.com

> "Emagic's Windows-based product offerings will be discontinued on September
> 30, 2002."
> 
> So, if the "offerings" are discontinued, do you think they will develop any
> new versions in case they can't "offer" them any longer?

Jeez, that is terrible. Although I'm a Mac user, MANY of my friends use
Logic on PC. Apple really pisses me off at times like this. They shoot
themselves in the foot all the time! Take the iPod for instance. Imagine how
many more they would have sold had they made it Mac and PC compatible. Not
many people want to make the effort to buy a third party utility they are
not sure even works effectively just to get the PC compatibility. Apple lot,
I'm sure, hundreds of thousands of sales by ignoring the market. While I
understand their stubbornness to support other platforms, I think they lose
a great deal of revenue at times like this.

The decision to drop Emagic PC support may also stifle the competition. I
also wonder if Apple will not seriously consider dropping VST in favor of
their new OS X technology. The only good news, I suppose, is that eMagic's
products are bound to get to OSX a lot faster now. But to sum up my feelings
about this: I'm pretty worried in general. Apple is doing great things in
video production. Let's hope they perform as competitively in the audio
arena as well, which is definitely new territory for them. I wonder if
anyone at Apple bothers to read this forum. -Jer

Re: [exs] Re: Apple buys Emagic no more Windows support.

2002-07-01 by HELP@MusicBootCamp.com

> not sure even works effectively just to get the PC compatibility. Apple lot,
> I'm sure, hundreds of thousands of sales by ignoring the market. While I

Should have read, "Apple lost, I'm sure, hundreds of thousands..."

Re: [exs] Re: Apple buys Emagic no more Windows support.

2002-07-02 by No Such User

----- Original Message -----
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: "Matthew Evans-Jones" <matt@...>
To: <exs-users@yahoogroups.com>


> ....as a PC user (just bought a new one when I upgraded to V 5.),  but a
> user of Logic since my Atari days of  15 plus years ago, I have to say
this
> is the most depressing thing I've heard in a long time !
>
> I am seriously F&%?'d Off !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and
would
> not have lashed out for the upgrade to V5 if I'd known...
So whats the problem? You have a working sequencer, and its great. You're
going to get bugfixes too. You can make music with it, and its not magically
going to stop being usable in 3 months, and will still be the same great
product. People STILL use Notator on Ataris even though the platform was
dropped years ago for the same reason - its a great product.

When Logic v6 appears and is Mac only I'd expect you to have a good reason
to consider switching, but whats the point in getting all heated up now?

Take a note from the hardware world. For example the MPC2000 - when the
MPC4000 came out with new features, they stopped providing OS releases for
the 2000 as an old product line. Does that render the 2k useless? Does that
mean everyone needs to dump the 2k and spend 3 grand on a 4k unit? no, you
just carry on using it as its the same good bit of kit as it was when it was
fresh out of the box.

Now I'm dropping the email and going back to making music...

~Pev


_________________________________________________________
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Get your free @... address at http://mail.yahoo.com

Re: Apple buys Emagic no more Windows support.

2002-07-02 by Matt McKenzie-Smith

> As a great Australian once said " I love youse all"
> 
> Regards,
> Murray

Yeah maayte, go Muzza !! ;-)

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Matt McKenzie-Smith
PO Box 10395
Adelaide BC 5000 
South Australia

+618(0)82938282
+61(0)416 197 883
mattrixx@...

Re: [exs] Re: Apple buys Emagic no more Windows support.

2002-07-02 by Murray McDowall

At 11:26 PM 2/07/02 +0930, you wrote:
>> As a great Australian once said " I love youse all"
>> 
>> Regards,
>> Murray
>
>Yeah maayte, go Muzza !! ;-)

LOL

Hi Matt,
 -- wondered if anyone would smile at this. The memory always makes me
smile --  the old Jeff boy  -- in that brief moment he immortalised himself
and left an indelible footprint in the language (strine).

It's right up there with Rodney King and "Can't we all just get along?"

Regards,
Murray

Re: [exs] Re: Apple buys Emagic no more Windows support.

2002-07-02 by No Such User

----- Original Message -----
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: "Matthew Evans-Jones" <matt@...>
To: <exs-users@yahoogroups.com>


> Here's a copy of the email I sent to Emagic earlier - i'll post any
response
> I get....
...
> I know here in the UK we will be protected by UK law with our trading
> standards and "fit for purpose" legislation, as well as many other areas
if
> necessary,
No, you're mistaken. You have bought a piece of software and it works. What
they are doing is discontinuing *further* development. Thats not going to
suddenly break what you have already bought. Itd be nice if the law worked
that way, but it doesnt I'm afraid.

~Pev


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Get your free @... address at http://mail.yahoo.com

RE: [exs] Re: Apple buys Emagic no more Windows support.

2002-07-02 by Matthew Evans-Jones

~Pev

I guess you are either a MAC user, or only really use Logic for MIDI
sequencing because the hardware and software world are not the same.
If you buy a new laptop today - you will find that it only runs windows XP,
and is not supported for any other operating system (even windows 2000
server - which is a real issue for some applications)

If I had the luxury of a PC/MAC that was 100% dedicated to being a MIDI
sequencer, then I would agree with you - No denying that Logic is a great as
this - but I doubt that anyone who is on the EXS-Users forum, just uses it
as a sequencer, and most Platinum users use it for a whole lot more than
sequencing MIDI events

If the media and IT world promises not to evolve, or bring out any new
standards for Video and Audio, then I'll be happy with a system that doesn't
evolve either - and maybe I (and others) will never need to "get heated"

As for people still using Atari's - yep, i still have mine, and Notator with
it's unitor II - original manual and limited edition case that it came in -
but it doesn't connect to the internet via broad band (I think 2400 baud was
it's top speed), and can't burn CD's let alone DVD's, so I tend to leave it
in the loft gathering dust.
Show quoted textHide quoted text
  -----Original Message-----
  From: No Such User [mailto:no_such_user@...]
  Sent: 02 July 2002 12:43
  To: exs-users@yahoogroups.com
  Subject: Re: [exs] Re: Apple buys Emagic no more Windows support.


  ----- Original Message -----
  From: "Matthew Evans-Jones" <matt@...>
  To: <exs-users@yahoogroups.com>


  > ....as a PC user (just bought a new one when I upgraded to V 5.),  but a
  > user of Logic since my Atari days of  15 plus years ago, I have to say
  this
  > is the most depressing thing I've heard in a long time !
  >
  > I am seriously F&%?'d Off !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and
  would
  > not have lashed out for the upgrade to V5 if I'd known...
  So whats the problem? You have a working sequencer, and its great. You're
  going to get bugfixes too. You can make music with it, and its not
magically
  going to stop being usable in 3 months, and will still be the same great
  product. People STILL use Notator on Ataris even though the platform was
  dropped years ago for the same reason - its a great product.

  When Logic v6 appears and is Mac only I'd expect you to have a good reason
  to consider switching, but whats the point in getting all heated up now?

  Take a note from the hardware world. For example the MPC2000 - when the
  MPC4000 came out with new features, they stopped providing OS releases for
  the 2000 as an old product line. Does that render the 2k useless? Does
that
  mean everyone needs to dump the 2k and spend 3 grand on a 4k unit? no, you
  just carry on using it as its the same good bit of kit as it was when it
was
  fresh out of the box.

  Now I'm dropping the email and going back to making music...

  ~Pev


  _________________________________________________________
  Do You Yahoo!?
  Get your free @... address at http://mail.yahoo.com





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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

RE: [exs] Re: Apple buys Emagic no more Windows support.

2002-07-02 by Jeffrey SECKINGER

I thought this was all bullshit until I went to Emagic's website. F and A, 
this sucks...I guess it's time to reconsider the future...I suppose Pro 
Tools or Cubase is in my future. Too bad I'm an avid user of Emagic. It's a 
program I've grown to love. Does anyone know who to complain to about 
this...it's time to raise some havic....a revolution I tell ya....
Jeff


>From: "Matthew Evans-Jones" <matt@...>
>Reply-To: exs-users@yahoogroups.com
>To: <exs-users@yahoogroups.com>
>Subject: RE: [exs] Re: Apple buys Emagic no more Windows support.
>Date: Tue, 2 Jul 2002 22:56:42 +0100
>




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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [exs] Re: Apple buys Emagic no more Windows support.

2002-07-03 by No Such User

----- Original Message -----
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: "Matthew Evans-Jones" <matt@...>
To: <exs-users@yahoogroups.com>

> If the media and IT world promises not to evolve, or bring out any new
> standards for Video and Audio, then I'll be happy with a system that
doesn't
> evolve either - and maybe I (and others) will never need to "get heated"
To be fair, how much *new* standards need to be implemented in new releases?
Maybe a few new audio & video codecs, but thats about it. I'm not
disagreeing that on the whole this whole situation is a bad turn of affairs,
but I just dont understand the reason why people are saying that this is so
terrible they must drop Logic immediately for simething else. This is
madness in the 90% of cases where people arent needing some new feature as
in your case.

Anyway, I dont particularly want to get into this whole discussion. I'd
rather wait a few weeks and wait for official further details. At the moment
much of this is all based on speculation. If I didnt have to moderate all
the traffic on the LUG list I'd choose to block the threads entirely!

~Pev




_________________________________________________________
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Get your free @... address at http://mail.yahoo.com

Re: [exs] Re: Apple buys Emagic no more Windows support.

2002-07-03 by HELP@MusicBootCamp.com

Dude, let it go... you're not going to change anyone's mind about this. They
have a right to be upset. Keeping up with Logic software has increased
people's efficiency and workflow (Version 5 automation for example). Telling
them to get over their inaccessabilities to future improvements (many are
still needed and are anxiously anticipated, even from the great minds of
Emagic) is a crappy gesture. Your continual antagonism doesn't help stop the
thread either. You are contributing to it simply by responding. I don't
understand why people feel they have to tell other people what they should
and shouldn't feel annoyed about. You can disagree, but don't belittle
others for expressing their concern. Frankly, I believe a majority of list
members are interested in this debate.
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> To be fair, how much *new* standards need to be implemented in new releases?
> Maybe a few new audio & video codecs, but thats about it. I'm not
> disagreeing that on the whole this whole situation is a bad turn of affairs,
> but I just dont understand the reason why people are saying that this is so
> terrible they must drop Logic immediately for simething else. This is
> madness in the 90% of cases where people arent needing some new feature as
> in your case.
> 
> Anyway, I dont particularly want to get into this whole discussion. I'd
> rather wait a few weeks and wait for official further details. At the moment
> much of this is all based on speculation. If I didnt have to moderate all
> the traffic on the LUG list I'd choose to block the threads entirely!

Re: [exs] Re: Apple buys Emagic no more Windows support.

2002-07-03 by jddymackbn@aol.com

Jer,

You did sound kind of angry! a little scary!
:-&#92;

But hey, its America! We can ALL EXPRESS OUR OPINIONS, angry or not!
0;-)

Jmack---LOL


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [exs] Re: Apple buys Emagic no more Windows support.

2002-07-03 by HELP@MusicBootCamp.com

PS: I didn't mean to sound so arrogant. Take this statement with a grain of
salt, please. I know the initial author meant well and was trying to make
people feel better about the situation. I believe I sounded kind of ticked
off about the first email, even though it didn't bother me that much. I just
wanted to propose a counter opinion... oh well.
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> Dude, let it go... you're not going to change anyone's mind about this. They
> have a right to be upset. Keeping up with Logic software has increased
> people's efficiency and workflow (Version 5 automation for example). Telling
> them to get over their inaccessabilities to future improvements (many are
> still needed and are anxiously anticipated, even from the great minds of
> Emagic) is a crappy gesture. Your continual antagonism doesn't help stop the
> thread either. You are contributing to it simply by responding. I don't
> understand why people feel they have to tell other people what they should
> and shouldn't feel annoyed about. You can disagree, but don't belittle
> others for expressing their concern. Frankly, I believe a majority of list
> members are interested in this debate.
> 
>> To be fair, how much *new* standards need to be implemented in new releases?
>> Maybe a few new audio & video codecs, but thats about it. I'm not
>> disagreeing that on the whole this whole situation is a bad turn of affairs,
>> but I just dont understand the reason why people are saying that this is so
>> terrible they must drop Logic immediately for simething else. This is
>> madness in the 90% of cases where people arent needing some new feature as
>> in your case.
>> 
>> Anyway, I dont particularly want to get into this whole discussion. I'd
>> rather wait a few weeks and wait for official further details. At the moment
>> much of this is all based on speculation. If I didnt have to moderate all
>> the traffic on the LUG list I'd choose to block the threads entirely!

Re: Apple buys Emagic no more Windows support.

2002-07-09 by erk_relativity

--- In exs-users@y..., "sidefxuk" <emoticon@b...> wrote:
> 
> http://www.emagic.de/english/news/index.html
> 
> Thank God I use a Mac!

Yeah, well, if Apple goes under a year from now, maybe the emagic 
guys can port the thing to a straight unix platform that can run on 
either mac or Win-ish hardware. that way, if anything happens to 
Apple, we don't lose logic too.
Hell, license a version of unix, customise it, merge logic into it, 
and turn logic into a full-blown self-standing operating system with 
all the unneccessary stuff stripped out. That way they don't have to 
complain about Mac or Windows quirks, they have a completely free 
hand.

I mean, you don't really need to be able to run your email program on 
the same machine as your sequencer, at the same time, do you?

=Erk=

[exs] Re: Apple buys Emagic no more Windows support.

2002-07-09 by erk_relativity

--- In exs-users@y..., Joe Moretti <morettij@b...> wrote:
>this is a disaster for the Education market<

It's also not great news for those little companies that build music 
PC platforms specifically for music users, tailored specifically to 
logic, with specially-made keyboards with the shortcuts on, etc.

If they can't build machines for logic users any more, the Steinberg 
market alone might not be big enough to support them.

=Erk=

[exs] Re: Apple buys Emagic no more Windows support.

2002-07-09 by erk_relativity

Yeah, Apple have a history of doing really stupid things to products 
without taking a proper rational business view. They get too greedy 
for control over their nicer products, which then get damaged to the 
extent that they end up not being any better than the competition's.

IMO, logic is (was) currently the #1 sequencing app because 
a) it's great, and
b) it's cross-platform, so it was able to claim to be the single 
emerging industry standard. There's lots of little companies that 
just produce one Cubase-type product for one platform, but they can't 
compete with emagic when it comes to that wide support.
Microsoft understand this. MSWord isn't that great a program, but MS 
do all the niche versions that can (Cantonese, etc), because they 
understand that if they don't supply therse markets, some little 
obscure chinese wordprocessor app will suddenly get converted to all 
these languages and take over the market. maintaining ground cover 
ensures that little seedlings don't spring up and end up overshaowing 
you.

Now, if logic becomes some single-platform pet project for a single 
PC manufacturer, it immediately loses that status as the single 
preferred sequencing platform, because it won't run on Windows, and 
it's no longer got the status of being a default market leader. 
 
Apple have only owned this company for a week, and they've already 
thrown away a third of its revenue stream, alienated a third of its 
customers (and suppliers, etc), and downgraded the company's products 
to the status of niche single-platform software.




--- In exs-users@y..., <HELP@M...> wrote:
>Jeez, that is terrible. Although I'm a Mac user, MANY of my friends 
use Logic on PC. Apple really pisses me off at times like this. They 
shoot themselves in the foot all the time! Take the iPod for 
instance. Imagine how many more they would have sold had they made it 
Mac and PC compatible.<

[exs] Re: Apple buys Emagic no more Windows support.

2002-07-09 by erk_relativity

--- In exs-users@y..., "No Such User" <no_such_user@y...> wrote:
>It'd be nice if the law worked
> that way, but it doesnt I'm afraid.

US anti-trust legislation?

There a rules supposed to stop companies trying to get or maintain 
monopoly control of a market sector by leveraging power to wipe out 
the competition, and buyonmg up companies to shut down product lines 
that don't require your unique computers to run might fall into that 
category.

This is why Microsoft don't simply buy up Adobe and shut down the 
company's mac output, it might be in Microsoft's interest to do that, 
but it would be so far over the line that even Microsoft wouldn't get 
away with it. 

In the case of Apple, we'd have to show that this was part fo a 
pattern and not just a one-off. I think they are supposed to have 
just bought up some video software company with a great product, and 
shut down the Windows version of that, too, so this might be a 
strategy. 

Then again, US laws on big business tend to be broken or ignored a 
lot of the time anyway, the companies tend to plead that they are 
especially strategically important to the US economy, and get let off.
=Erk=

Re: [exs] Re: Apple buys Emagic no more Windows support.

2002-07-09 by Murray McDowall

At 02:43 AM 9/07/02 +0000, you wrote:
>--- In exs-users@y..., "sidefxuk" <emoticon@b...> wrote:
>> 
>> http://www.emagic.de/english/news/index.html
>> 
>> Thank God I use a Mac!
>
>Yeah, well, if Apple goes under a year from now, maybe the emagic 
>guys can port the thing to a straight unix platform that can run on 
>either mac or Win-ish hardware. that way, if anything happens to 
>Apple, we don't lose logic too.

This is my concern also -- one proprietory platform --  it is a retreat.
All the big players have moved in the other direction -- away from
proprietory and towards more open systems and cross-platform development.

>Hell, license a version of unix, customise it, merge logic into it, 
>and turn logic into a full-blown self-standing operating system with 
>all the unneccessary stuff stripped out. That way they don't have to 
>complain about Mac or Windows quirks, they have a completely free 
>hand.

I wish the music companies had banded together --perhaps with some
multimedia interests -- and bought Be a couple of years back. Palm has what
is left of it and they got it for peanuts. Perhaps
Macromedia/Emagic/Steinberg etc were scared that Apple/Microsoft would have
turned on them. Perhaps the notion of competitors working together is just
not workable. What a system it could have been if the content creating
companies owned the whole box and dice --  multimedia workstations on state
of the art OS and cheap powerful hardware.

>I mean, you don't really need to be able to run your email program on 
>the same machine as your sequencer, at the same time, do you?

Well - on a Unix based system something like that would be no problem anyway.

Regards,
Murray

Re: [exs] Re: Apple buys Emagic no more Windows support.

2002-07-09 by Mark Hiskey

=Erk= said:

>This is why Microsoft don't simply buy up Adobe and shut down the 
>company's mac output, it might be in Microsoft's interest to do that, 
>but it would be so far over the line that even Microsoft wouldn't get 
>away with it.

Because Microsoft is clearly in the dominant position. They also bought 
$150m worth of Apple stock 5 years ago partly to deflect anti-trust 
concerns. Apple was severly wounded at the time and Gates needed a worthy 
competitor to present the appearance of a level playing field. The two 
companies had a five year pact to cooperate which has now expired, so 
Apple is starting to flex its muscle.
>
>In the case of Apple, we'd have to show that this was part fo a 
>pattern and not just a one-off. I think they are supposed to have 
>just bought up some video software company with a great product, and 
>shut down the Windows version of that, too, so this might be a 
>strategy. 

Yeah, that was Final Cut Pro. Sorry if this has been said, but at face 
value MOTU seems like it would have been a better target for acquisition. 
They're Mac only, a US company and even their advertising seems Mac-like. 
But the Emagic choice adds a component that MOTU doesn't, existing PC 
users that will now be forced to make a choice. It's notably consistent 
with Apple's current "switch" campaign. Of course, it doesn't help 
Microsoft's cause to loose another Windows developer either.

>Then again, US laws on big business tend to be broken or ignored a 
>lot of the time anyway, the companies tend to plead that they are 
>especially strategically important to the US economy, and get let off.

Maybe so, but in Apple's case, they're still the small fish and as such 
impossible to hang that monopoly badge on, no matter how many windows 
developers they acquire. Microsoft has a lot more to prove as far as 
anti-trust goes. Forget about strategy for a moment and think about 
product: for all the bad news, don't forget that the Apple of late is a 
pretty innovative company, and the new Logic, whatever form it eventually 
takes, should be something to behold.

Good points, Eric.

-Mark

Re: [exs] Re: Apple buys Emagic no more Windows support.

2002-07-09 by HELP@MusicBootCamp.com

>> either mac or Win-ish hardware. that way, if anything happens to
>> Apple, we don't lose logic too.
> 
> Ain't gonna happen.

Meaning, I'm sure they'll come up with some system to remain competitive. I
just hope they don't butcher Logic in the process. My hopes are raised by
their impressive arsenal of current software. Final Cut Pro is sweeping the
semi-pro/pro video market. In fact, on the software front, Apple is doing
superbly. It's the hardware I'm worried about. It would probably take their
programmers a day or two to make OSX run on an Intel box. It is Unix after
all... Jer

[exs] Re: Apple buys Emagic no more Windows support.

2002-07-09 by Eorthman

I'm a Mac user, from way back. Have no desire to switch 
platforms or programs. But I can't BELIEVE Emagic would stop 
supporting Windows. The cross-platform aspects Logic IS one 
of the major selling points. I used to use Performer, but got 
better results with a collaborator and I both using Logic (he's on 
a PC). 

It's GOT to be company BS. Like, it's not big news if Apple buys 
Emagic, but it is big news if Apple buys Emagic and then shuts 
down Windows support. Look how much conversation it's 
generated in this forum alone. The press release on the Apple 
site is different than the version I've seen on other news sites. It 
has a big disclaimer essentially saying, "this is what we thought 
we were going to do at the moment of this press release, but 
everything might change." 

Apple has made a lot of stupid marketting decisions in the past, 
but I can't believe they're so stupid as to alienate 35% of their 
user base (not to mention all the users who rely on 
cross-platform compatibility). 

--- In exs-users@y..., Murray McDowall <murraymc@m...> wrote:
> At 02:43 AM 9/07/02 +0000, you wrote:
> >--- In exs-users@y..., "sidefxuk" <emoticon@b...> wrote:
> >> 
> >> http://www.emagic.de/english/news/index.html
> >> 
> >> Thank God I use a Mac!
> >
> >Yeah, well, if Apple goes under a year from now, maybe the 
emagic 
> >guys can port the thing to a straight unix platform that can run 
on 
> >either mac or Win-ish hardware. that way, if anything happens 
to 
> >Apple, we don't lose logic too.
> 
> This is my concern also -- one proprietory platform --  it is a 
retreat.
> All the big players have moved in the other direction -- away 
from
> proprietory and towards more open systems and 
cross-platform development.
> 
> >Hell, license a version of unix, customise it, merge logic into 
it, 
> >and turn logic into a full-blown self-standing operating system 
with 
> >all the unneccessary stuff stripped out. That way they don't 
have to 
> >complain about Mac or Windows quirks, they have a 
completely free 
> >hand.
> 
> I wish the music companies had banded together --perhaps 
with some
> multimedia interests -- and bought Be a couple of years back. 
Palm has what
> is left of it and they got it for peanuts. Perhaps
> Macromedia/Emagic/Steinberg etc were scared that 
Apple/Microsoft would have
> turned on them. Perhaps the notion of competitors working 
together is just
> not workable. What a system it could have been if the content 
creating
> companies owned the whole box and dice --  multimedia 
workstations on state
> of the art OS and cheap powerful hardware.
> 
> >I mean, you don't really need to be able to run your email 
program on 
> >the same machine as your sequencer, at the same time, do 
you?
> 
> Well - on a Unix based system something like that would be no 
problem anyway.
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> 
> Regards,
> Murray

Re: [exs] Re: Apple buys Emagic no more Windows support.

2002-07-09 by Pev

--- Eorthman <Eorthman@...> wrote: 
> It's GOT to be company BS. 
No, its user BS sadly. The first announcement said :
"Emagic's Windows-based product offerings will be 
discontinued on September 30, 2002"
and the second said :
"It goes without saying that we will continue to service 
and support all Logic Windows owners according to the 
standard product warranty policies beyond September, 30th 2002"

The people talking about support dropping have been playing 
chinese whispers and have not bothered to read the announcement
carefully (kind of strange given the situation)

Thats not to say that discontinuation of further development
of Logic on the Windows platform isnt fairly tragic, but isnt
nearly as bad as many are saying.

~Pev

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[exs] Re: Apple buys Emagic no more Windows support.

2002-07-09 by erk_relativity

--- In exs-users@y..., <HELP@M...> wrote:
> It's the hardware I'm worried about. It would probably take their
> programmers a day or two to make OSX run on an Intel box. It is 
> Unix after all... Jer

Well, if Apple want to make logic OSX-specific, and want to make OSX 
available for non-Mac platforms, I'll cheerfully go out and buy a 
copy in order to get the new logic updates, with no grumbling.

But I think they want to sell us their hardware, too.

=Erk=

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