EXS 24 Logic Sampler Users Group

I actually think that a few of my posts have been moderated due to certain reasons (somewhat sneaky Apple side remarks or whatever)
without any further notification (I don't think it's Yahoo acting up).
I just don't like this, especially since (maybe apart from 1-2 posts) I allways tried to offer actual answers along with my remarks.

So that's been it. There's quite some nice people on this list though - I may somewhat miss you.

But seriously, it's enough. I think I'll unsubscribe from the main LUG as well during the next days. No idea whether I'll be back at
all (even if my next music computer will be a Mac), most likely I won't. I might be too much of an old hippie to accept this.

Wish you all the best,
Sascha Franck

I hope you'll reconsider, Sascha.  We've all benefited from your 
presence here.

Regards,
Lenny

Quoting Sascha Franck <S.Franck@...>:

> I actually think that a few of my posts have been moderated due to 
> certain reasons (somewhat sneaky Apple side remarks or whatever)
> without any further notification (I don't think it's Yahoo acting up).
> I just don't like this, especially since (maybe apart from 1-2 posts) 
> I allways tried to offer actual answers along with my remarks.
>
> So that's been it. There's quite some nice people on this list though 
> - I may somewhat miss you.
>
> But seriously, it's enough. I think I'll unsubscribe from the main 
> LUG as well during the next days. No idea whether I'll be back at
> all (even if my next music computer will be a Mac), most likely I 
> won't. I might be too much of an old hippie to accept this.
>
> Wish you all the best,
> Sascha Franck
>
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________________
>                           EXS* Users Group
> - To UNSUBSCRIBE: email exs-users-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - EXS/Logic FAQ: http://logicfaq.omega-art.com/
> - Free legal samples: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/exs-users/links/
> - To contact list admins, email exs-users-owner@yahoogroups.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Sascha,

I am not a big contributor to this list - I just lurk to see what the score
is in the s/w sampler world - but I have seen your many considered messages
that have had no other agenda other than to help the EXS community. It's not
for me to urge you to re-consider but it strikes me that this community will
be a lot worse off without your insight and experience to guide them along
the path.

If - as you imply - your posts have not made it through here due to some
politically correct jihad, that is disgraceful.

If it's any consolation, I for one am extremely grateful for all the totally
altruistic help and assistance you have given me personally in my various
endeavours... and for that, I thank you.

A sad loss to the EXS community I think.


Best regards,


Steve
http://www.hollowsun.com

wqa-wqa-wqa....
hold ze horses, sascha!

don't let the silly technology - that often plays tricks on you - make 
you react like this!
you should not give in, just because some silly e-mails don't get's 
posted...  or whatever.
Keep yer line, mate !
And by the way:
	I honestly don't think ( anymore ) that  a windooze machine is sooo 
much worse...
OK - it sucks!
but sometimes the macs do as well !!!!!

So keep on doing the best YOU can - not concerning the computer you are 
working on.

In any case.
All the best

R




On May 31, 2005, at 23:25, Sascha Franck wrote:

> I actually think that a few of my posts have been moderated due to 
> certain reasons (somewhat sneaky Apple side remarks or whatever)
> without any further notification (I don't think it's Yahoo acting up).
> I just don't like this, especially since (maybe apart from 1-2 posts) 
> I allways tried to offer actual answers along with my remarks.
>
> So that's been it. There's quite some nice people on this list though 
> - I may somewhat miss you.
>
> But seriously, it's enough. I think I'll unsubscribe from the main LUG 
> as well during the next days. No idea whether I'll be back at
> all (even if my next music computer will be a Mac), most likely I 
> won't. I might be too much of an old hippie to accept this.
>
> Wish you all the best,
> Sascha Franck
>
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________________
>                           EXS* Users Group
> - To UNSUBSCRIBE: email exs-users-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - EXS/Logic FAQ: http://logicfaq.omega-art.com/
> - Free legal samples: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/exs-users/links/
> - To contact list admins, email exs-users-owner@yahoogroups.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Raphael Vang

freelance trombonist
www.raphael-vang.de

hmmm.
now i'm not sure if my mac plays tricks on me...
I could swear I typed:

woa-woa-woa....


maybe this is what you mean by the e-mails showing up strange...    ;D


c'mon, mate


R




On Jun 4, 2005, at 1:05, Raphael Vang wrote:

> wqa-wqa-wqa....
> hold ze horses, sascha!
>
> don't let the silly technology - that often plays tricks on you - make
> you react like this!
> you should not give in, just because some silly e-mails don't get's
> posted...  or whatever.
> Keep yer line, mate !
> And by the way:
> 	I honestly don't think ( anymore ) that  a windooze machine is sooo
> much worse...
> OK - it sucks!
> but sometimes the macs do as well !!!!!
>
> So keep on doing the best YOU can - not concerning the computer you are
> working on.
>
> In any case.
> All the best
>
> R
>
>
>
>
> On May 31, 2005, at 23:25, Sascha Franck wrote:
>
>> I actually think that a few of my posts have been moderated due to
>> certain reasons (somewhat sneaky Apple side remarks or whatever)
>> without any further notification (I don't think it's Yahoo acting up).
>> I just don't like this, especially since (maybe apart from 1-2 posts)
>> I allways tried to offer actual answers along with my remarks.
>>
>> So that's been it. There's quite some nice people on this list though
>> - I may somewhat miss you.
>>
>> But seriously, it's enough. I think I'll unsubscribe from the main LUG
>> as well during the next days. No idea whether I'll be back at
>> all (even if my next music computer will be a Mac), most likely I
>> won't. I might be too much of an old hippie to accept this.
>>
>> Wish you all the best,
>> Sascha Franck
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ____________________________________________________________________
>>                           EXS* Users Group
>> - To UNSUBSCRIBE: email exs-users-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>> - EXS/Logic FAQ: http://logicfaq.omega-art.com/
>> - Free legal samples: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/exs-users/links/
>> - To contact list admins, email exs-users-owner@yahoogroups.com
>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
> Raphael Vang
>
> freelance trombonist
> www.raphael-vang.de
>
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________________
>                           EXS* Users Group
> - To UNSUBSCRIBE: email exs-users-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - EXS/Logic FAQ: http://logicfaq.omega-art.com/
> - Free legal samples: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/exs-users/links/
> - To contact list admins, email exs-users-owner@yahoogroups.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Raphael Vang

freelance trombonist
www.raphael-vang.de

Sascha,
 I just want to say thanks for all the great contributions to the EXS 
group you've made. I think you are one of the key members who has 
posted intelligent, informative and often amusing insights into the 
process of music making and if you do decide to stop, I will miss you. 
Without members like you, these groups, lists and forums sometimes 
tend to be boring, dry, and overly technical geekfests without one 
iota of inspiring, artistic thoughts, just technical data and know it 
all "experts" who like to show off. I hope you will reconsider, but I 
don't blame you if you give it a break. Anyway, thanks again from a 
fellow "old hippie".

On a fine day, 03-06-2005, Lenny Stearns wrote:

>I hope you'll reconsider, Sascha.  We've all benefited from your
>presence here.

Ditto -- as I already let Sascha know in private.  But let's consider 
the real issue: it seems Sascha leaves the group due to his messages 
being moderated just a few times too often.

Now I understand that the moderators use some guidelines to determine 
which messages get through and which don't.  Sascha, being critical 
as always (thanks for that!), wanted to point out that Macs aren't 
the problem-free machines they're often claimed to be, and vice versa 
for Windows PCs.  To the moderators this might come across as food 
for a platform war, and if such a post had been written by a newbie 
who hardly every contributed something useful to the list, I could 
see why they would moderate such a message.

However, in the case of Sascha who _always_ tries to be helpful (and 
often succeeds :) I do think the moderators missed their mark. 
Sascha is not some dum-*ss newbie looking for trouble, but he's a 
valuable contributor who's never shown signs of b/w-thinking or being 
shortsighted or prejudicial.  If such a person posts something 
regarding the supposed differences between Macs and PCs, I think he 
ought to have enough credits that such a post makes it to the list. 
If a clueless newbie then thinks he can reply to such a message with 
flame-material, than *that* message should be moderated.

In short: I truly think the moderators, despite the great job they do 
in their own free time (for which I am more than grateful), now 
simply made a (or a few) wrong decision(s).  And due to that, we now 
seem to be losing a valuable list-member.  And that sucks big time.
I understand that moderating lists such as these is a hell of a job, 
and I don't blame anyone if mistakes are made.  After all, we're all 
human.  But _if_ mistakes are made, one should also be able to say 
'sorry'.

The classy thing to do would be for the moderators to somehow 
convince Sascha to stay.

-- 
Hendrik Jan Veenstra   h @ k n o w a r e . n l
Omega Art: http://www.omega-art.com/

like other people have said you've been much appreciated sascha and its sad
news
paul
-- 
my premature website:http://www.paulastles.com/

> From: "Sascha Franck" <S.Franck@...>
> Reply-To: exs-users@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Tue, 31 May 2005 23:25:31 +0200
> To: <exs-users@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: [EXS] Good bye
> 
> I actually think that a few of my posts have been moderated due to certain
> reasons (somewhat sneaky Apple side remarks or whatever)
> without any further notification (I don't think it's Yahoo acting up).
> I just don't like this, especially since (maybe apart from 1-2 posts) I
> allways tried to offer actual answers along with my remarks.
> 
> So that's been it. There's quite some nice people on this list though - I may
> somewhat miss you.
> 
> But seriously, it's enough. I think I'll unsubscribe from the main LUG as well
> during the next days. No idea whether I'll be back at
> all (even if my next music computer will be a Mac), most likely I won't. I
> might be too much of an old hippie to accept this.
> 
> Wish you all the best,
> Sascha Franck
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ____________________________________________________________________
> EXS* Users Group
> - To UNSUBSCRIBE: email exs-users-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - EXS/Logic FAQ: http://logicfaq.omega-art.com/
> - Free legal samples: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/exs-users/links/
> - To contact list admins, email exs-users-owner@yahoogroups.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>

On 04.06.2005, at 16:09, Hendrik Jan Veenstra wrote:


> ...
> However, in the case of Sascha who _always_ tries to be helpful (and
> often succeeds :) I do think the moderators missed their mark.
> Sascha is not some dum-*ss newbie looking for trouble, but he's a
> valuable contributor who's never shown signs of b/w-thinking or being
> shortsighted or prejudicial.  If such a person posts something
> regarding the supposed differences between Macs and PCs, I think he
> ought to have enough credits that such a post makes it to the list.
> ...
>

I simply sign that.
And I hope that Sacha will stay here or return after a while.

It would be some effort but maybe a rejected mail should not just get  
deleted but answered with one of two automatic replies:

1 - "Sorry, we cannot accept that. Please try to find another  
formulation."

2 - "C'm on, boy!"

The second is for example to reject some of my mails if I have "my  
certain days"... :-)

___
Peter Ostry

From: "Sascha Franck" <S.Franck@...>

> I actually think that a few of my posts have been moderated due to  
> certain reasons (somewhat sneaky Apple side remarks or whatever)
> without any further notification (I don't think it's Yahoo acting up).
> I just don't like this, especially since (maybe apart from 1-2  
> posts) I allways tried to offer actual answers along with my remarks.

I've had three posts moderated on the LUG over the years. As a matter  
of fact I had a big argument with Jeremy about the first one (this  
was about 1-1/2 years ago). In that case I'd explained the advantages/ 
disadvantages of going all EXS vs. using slave PCs - I use both - and  
he snipped a big chunk because it violated the No Mac/PC Discussion  
rule. I was especially outraged because my post just showed up edited  
without any discussion. This was one I'd spent a good ten minutes  
writing, and it was the result of experience and considerable research.

So in my opinion that was over-moderation. But on the other hand,  
moderating a huge list is a big, thankless task, and these guys don't  
have time to stop and consider who the poster is; they're just  
concerned with the potential reaction. We've all seen how quickly the  
discussion can disintegrate.

So after trashing all the incoming digests for a few months, I  
decided that the information I get there made it worth burying the  
hatchet. It wasn't intended personally, which was how I took it, and  
I do honestly think the moderators' intention is to avoid noise, not  
to censor. Plus they're volunteering, as far as I know, and I do  
appreciate that.

The other two posts I had rejected were more recent, and they came  
with a note from the moderator: "sorry, we've closed the topic." They  
weren't particularly important, and it was probably unnecessary (I  
don't post arbitrarily inflammatory stuff), but at least I got a  
polite message.

Anyway, Sascha, you probably shouldn't take it personally. I doubt if  
that was intended.


Nick Batzdorf, editor/publisher
Virtual Instruments magazine - the world of softsynths and samplers
www.Virtualinstrumentsmag.com
1-877 VImagzn (846-2496)
818/905-9101, cell 590-9101



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>I actually think that a few of my posts have been moderated due to 
>certain reasons (somewhat sneaky Apple side remarks or whatever)

<snip>

>  I might be too much of an old hippie to accept this.

Sascha,

If you've already "de-listed", you won't be aware of all the replies 
to your post. You're a friend and I for one look out for your posts 
as they are always helpful and informative.

Don't let the system get you down - we're PEOPLE out here.

Best regards - Colin
(from an old [ex?]-hippie to another)

Goodbye from me as well, there aren't many left who were here when I joined the group 7 years ago. 

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On a fine day, 05-06-2005, HKC wrote:

>Goodbye from me as well, there aren't many left who were here when I 
>joined the group 7 years ago.

WTF???  Henrik, you're leaving as well?  Why, if I may ask?

This isn't going to be some sort of trend, now, is it?

-- 
Hendrik Jan Veenstra   h @ k n o w a r e . n l
Omega Art: http://www.omega-art.com/

I'm not leaving, just bought a Mac and definately staying. I tried all the alternatives and decided that Logic was good enough to ignore the Apple arrogance during the takeover. I have to say that if you come from Logic 5.51 on PC to 7.1 on Mac many things have improved and none so far seem to have gotten worse so at the moment I'm very pleased with the program.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On a fine day, 05-06-2005, HKC wrote:

>I'm not leaving, just bought a Mac and definately staying.

Ah, sorry -- I see how I misread your msg.

-- 
Hendrik Jan Veenstra   h @ k n o w a r e . n l
Omega Art: http://www.omega-art.com/

Hi Sascha,

Sorry to hear you are leaving. I guess it's inevitable that as Logic 
grows and Apple plays more and more of a role in it's presence, it can 
seem like grass roots user groups like ours are getting co-opted into 
the mainstream, and regulated by "the man". But I think the reality is 
that, despite the politics behind Logic, it's just getting to be a much 
more widely known and used program. And as such, it's related user 
groups are swelling. And with swelling numbers, the moderators are 
enforcing increasingly stricter rules in order for the volume to be 
somewhat manageable.

It's really too bad when you, one of the "good guys", or "good ole' 
boys" gets caught in these sorts of procedural issues. I guess it's 
unfortunately inevitable. Those of us who have been around here long 
enough have seen it before. It would be nice if the moderators took 
action to rectify this one of their mistakes (of which I am sure there 
are others). But I can understand if they don't want to individualize 
the policy and single out these sorts of unique issues that fall 
between the cracks and deal with them uniquely. It really is too bad. 
They are "just" volunteers, and human, and we have to accept that.

FWIW, I don't personally think there is any "corporate policy" or 
anything like that behind this. Just some overworked moderators who 
made one unfortunate judgment call on the wrong side of the artificial 
line they have created out of necessity.

At the risk of sounding geeky "the needs of the many outweigh the needs 
of the one". But the reality is, if you start losing too many "ones" 
there isn't a good quality "many" left over. Us remaining "many" will 
be diminished by your absence. Bye old friend.......



--------
Eli Krantzberg
http://www.nightshiftorchestra.com
Almat Productions

Howdy folks

As far as I can tell from the home page for this group on yahoo, it is not
moderated and messages are not filtered, except for the first message from a
new user.

If some messages did not get through, maybe it was a technical problem.

According to the website of the people who run this group at
http://www.logic-users.org, they are not connected with Emagic or Apple.

If the reason you are leaving the group is that you feel your messages were
stopped by a moderator, why not check that our first by asking the
moderators or Yahoo customer service?

Just a thought...

- Dave

On 6/5/05 1:55 PM, "Eli Krantzberg" <elik@...> wrote:

> Hi Sascha,
> 
> Sorry to hear you are leaving. I guess it's inevitable that as Logic
> grows and Apple plays more and more of a role in it's presence, it can
> seem like grass roots user groups like ours are getting co-opted into
> the mainstream, and regulated by "the man". But I think the reality is
> that, despite the politics behind Logic, it's just getting to be a much
> more widely known and used program. And as such, it's related user
> groups are swelling. And with swelling numbers, the moderators are
> enforcing increasingly stricter rules in order for the volume to be
> somewhat manageable.
> 
> It's really too bad when you, one of the "good guys", or "good ole'
> boys" gets caught in these sorts of procedural issues. I guess it's
> unfortunately inevitable. Those of us who have been around here long
> enough have seen it before. It would be nice if the moderators took
> action to rectify this one of their mistakes (of which I am sure there
> are others). But I can understand if they don't want to individualize
> the policy and single out these sorts of unique issues that fall
> between the cracks and deal with them uniquely. It really is too bad.
> They are "just" volunteers, and human, and we have to accept that.
> 
> FWIW, I don't personally think there is any "corporate policy" or
> anything like that behind this. Just some overworked moderators who
> made one unfortunate judgment call on the wrong side of the artificial
> line they have created out of necessity.
> 
> At the risk of sounding geeky "the needs of the many outweigh the needs
> of the one". But the reality is, if you start losing too many "ones"
> there isn't a good quality "many" left over. Us remaining "many" will
> be diminished by your absence. Bye old friend.......
> 
> 
> 
> --------
> Eli Krantzberg
> http://www.nightshiftorchestra.com
> Almat Productions
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ____________________________________________________________________
>                           EXS* Users Group
> - To UNSUBSCRIBE: email exs-users-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - EXS/Logic FAQ: http://logicfaq.omega-art.com/
> - Free legal samples: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/exs-users/links/
> - To contact list admins, email exs-users-owner@yahoogroups.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
>  
> 
>