EXS 24 Logic Sampler Users Group

JA> [The old polyphonic hihat trick as posted here and on the LUG before]
JA> still works [for me] here in LP 7.1..

Oops, you're right it doesn't!!! When I recreated this patch 
yesterday, I had inadvertently duplicated the open hihat zone as well 
(which defeats the whole purpose of the polyphonic hats!) - when I 
corrected this, I saw the same odd behavior as described elsewhere in 
this thread).. (Incidentally, the clicking seems to result when the 
first closed hh zone is "live" and the 2nd is the "null" zone - 
reverse this, and the closed hats seem to play normally, they just 
don't cut off the open).. Unfortunately, I can't find a copy of the 
instrument I'd tested this in a couple years ago when I'd posted the 
trick back then (I actually do my hihats differently, with cc1 
crossfading), so I don't know if I had some additional tweak I'm not 
thinking of now, or if Logic/EXS just changed this functionality at 
some point along the way..

Sadly, it seems EXS is now ignoring the number of *layered* voices 
triggered when you play a note (the basis for this trick), and 
instead is going only by the number of actual (different) notes 
played on the keyboard (which does seem to work consistently)..

As Dave Gordon already suggested, a workaround could be to set hihat 
polyphony to 2 (or 3), and set up a Transformer that doubles (or 
triples etc) each closed hihat note on another key with a silent 
sample, also set to the same Group.. This works fine, although since 
it requires Environment stuff it's no longer a self-contained EXS 
patch..

From: "des5080" <des5080@...>:

>  Maxing the polyphony on your group to silence already playing notes
>  *does not* work, as confirmed by myself and Garth - regardless of whether
>  you are maxing the voice count by layering multi-voice silent samples or
>  triggering extra single notes - the effect is the same..

Hmm.. Triggering extra notes on the keyboard definitely *does* work 
here, and so does generating the extra notes via Environment 
Transformers (Copy Matching Events, Apply Operation) - I just tested 
it with a 3-note hihat patch (as described by Dave in his post) and 
it works fine. Here's the setup..

EXS Hihat Instrument: (Pick any notes for the hats and null sample)
Zone 1: Closed Hihat  (A2-C3)  \
Zone 2: Silent Sample (G2-G#2)  } All set to the same EXS Group, Voices = 3
Zone 3: Open Hihat    (C#3-E3) /

Transformer #1 set as follows:   (Copy Matching Events, Apply Operation)
Conditions:  Status   Channel   Pitch   Velocity
               Note      Thru    A2-C3     Thru
Operations:  Status   Channel   Pitch   Velocity
               Thru      Thru      G2      Thru
Transformer #2 set the same except G#2 instead of G2

Each closed hihat note now triggers 3 actual notes, all in the same 
Group as the open hats, cutting them off - this seems to work 
consistently..

If you were going to go the route of using Transformers, then there 
are also other ways to accomplish this - I have a patch that has 
closed, 1/2-open, and open hihats on different keys, where any 
combination of 1/2-open and open notes are cut off by either the 
closed hh notes or the hh-foot note, and this could easily be 
extended to have even more different gradations of open and semi-open 
hat sounds, all being cut off by the closed/foot.

The above setup is done with a combination of hihat groups (all on 
the same note) set to crossfade via the modwheel (which is the way I 
do it, actually via a foot pedal that outputs cc1), and an 
alternative keyboard-only mode using Transformers that map different 
notes played on the keyboard and generate the appropriate modwheel 
(cc1) values for each hihat note played.. This makes the polyphony 
setting irrelevant, and allows the use of different EXS instances for 
closed and open hats, which is useful if you're using 
velocity->attacktime or velocity->samplestart to tweak the hats' 
dynamic response (as opposed to velocity cross-switching).. Once the 
Environment stuff is set up in a Template, it's easily accessible by 
any hihat patch you've setup to work with this method..

From: "des5080" <des5080@...>:

>  I have a V-Drum kit but it's own sounds are largely fairly rubbish, and
>  I wanted to use the kit to play decent drum libraries - it sounds and
>  *feels* so much better..

>  I split the closed and open hats onto separate EXS instances, and using
>  a couple of transformers route the hihat control pedal only to the open
>  hat EXS, and set up the matrix to do a relative volume modulation based
>  on the pedal. When the pedal is up, the closed hat multi zone sample
>  plays at full volume. Close the pedal and the volume gets reduced to
>  nothing. (I tried this using the ENV2 Decay setting first, but this
>  doesn't update through the note, only for the next note-on).

>  So in effect, there are no mute groups used at all. You play the open
>  hat polyphonically, and when you close the pedal to play the next closed
>  hat, the open hat stops (well, can't be heard :).

>  The next thing to try is to use the sample select to either fade between
>  more open hat samples down to nothing, and probably also to modulate the
>  decay setting to give more individual control of open hat lengths.

Aha, sounds like you've already hit on the cc-based approach.. If you 
have samples of various degrees of hh-"openness", all from the same 
hat, you can map the foot control to sweep between them using Groups 
or separate EXS instances for greater programming control. That's 
pretty much how my setup works as well - you can also adapt it to 
play from the keyboard when the V-Drum kit is not handy, as above.. 
Watch out, in Logic 7.1 (I think) they changed the Group 
functionality to accommodate some GarageBand programs(!), and now 
using cc4 to crossfade EXS Groups changes the functionality of 
(remaps) pitchbend & modwheel cc's! I mention this because I seem to 
remember that V-Drum uses cc4 for the hihat pedal - you might want to 
remap this to some other cc (1?), and avoid using cc4 in your EXS 
Group crossfade setups..

I'm still tweaking my own EXS hihats (I'm just finishing porting my 
drum kits over from Kurzweil) so if I come up with any interesting 
tweaks, or run into any other weird behavior or changes in 
functionality (!) I'll post..

-- 
Cheers, Joe Albano
ROOFTOP PRODUCTIONS NYC NY
Music Production  : http://www.rooftopproductions.com
Freelance/Consult : http://www.rooftopproductions.com/Consulting.html