EXS 24 Logic Sampler Users Group

Hi,

On 28-Dec-04, at 6:29 AM, Bill Canty wrote:

>  So the assumption is that everyone will steal a library if given half 
> a
>  chance? And the licensing terms are based on that assumption? Hmmm...

I don't think so and I don't think that sample library manufacturers 
feel that everyone out there is a crook.  I believe that this is a 
consideration though when setting policies for licensing agreements.  I 
believe that it has more to do with *risk* rather than mistrust IMHO.

>  It's difficult to be excited about that when everything else I buy
>  can be used for my entire life (or until it wears out, or gets eaten, 
> or
>  whatever.)

I don't necessarily get excited about it.  However, I don't get too 
upset about it either.  While the sample libs are expensive for many 
(and I certainly don't have the $$$ to buy all of the ones that I 
want/need), I appreciate that they are certainly a lot less expensive 
(for the most part) than a lot of synths.  In most cases also, they are 
focussed on certain types of sounds and don't give me a bunch of fluff 
that I won't use.  Many of today's synths have little neat arpeggiated 
rhythms that you can play with one finger but I'll never end up using 
on my music.

>  What I *hate* though, are the differences b/w what we're allowed to do
>  with sample libraries compared to what we're allowed to do with 
> hardware
>  synths.

The libraries are *not* hardware synths.  (**** please folks, let's not 
get into analogies - we've heard a bunch of them before and there are 
arguments for and against IMHO).

>  These Draconian restrictions mean that if you have no need for
>  orchestral libraries (therefore never need to buy one) but just happen
>  to want one little line from an instrument that appears only in the 
> Pro
>  Edition of VSL's Complete Orchestral Package you're up for AU$7897. Or
>  if you'd like to use part of VOTA for the one song you'll ever do in
>  your whole life that could benefit from the sound of a classical 
> choir,
>  you're up for AU$667 plus shipping.

Unfortunately, the developers feel that it is not profitable to sell 
individual sounds from some of their expensive libraries.  With the VSL 
package, I know that there they have some of their sounds from the Pro 
Edition bundled into smaller packages (some of their Horizon series I 
believe includes samples from the Pro Edition).  I don't believe that 
they do this because they want to gouge their customers.  I believe 
that it is part of their marketing plan and how they choose to sell 
their libraries in order to remain profitable.

>  And no, you can't hire it (like you can hire any other piece of studio
>  equipment that you don't need often enough to warrant buying it),

If you could hire it then the sample lib developer would want a piece 
of the action (and would deserve it also).  It is too difficult to 
administer and track which I believe is a big reason why it can't be 
done legally.

>  ... and if you do actually buy it -
>  no, you're not allowed to sell it once you've finished with it (like 
> you
>  can sell any other piece of studio equipment you've finished with). Is
>  it unreasonable that I feel screwed? (Not as much as the manufacturers
>  must feel screwed when people copy their stuff illegally, but I still
>  don't think it's fair.)

The glass is half empty?  In one way you can look at it as you got 
screwed.  In another way you can look at it as, "hey.  I paid $300 for 
6 GB of samples that I didn't have to spend thousands of dollars to 
record, hundreds of hours programming and editing, etc.)".  I got a 
great deal and was able to use it on my project rather than taking 6 
months to a year to create this sound.  I got good use out of it.

>  Bought a US$200 piano sample library (in Kompakt instrument format)
>  about a year ago. Can't use it cos it runs like sh*t on my computer.
>  That's OK, but what ####s me off is that I'm not allowed to sell it, 
> not
>  even if all hardware profiles are deactivated.

I feel bad for you that this is happened.  Did you ever attempt to 
contact the developer and let him know that you can't run it on your 
computer?  Usually there are minimum requirements (nowadays) on many 
sample libraries.  It could be that yours met the minimum requirements 
but for whatever reason, you are not able to use it.  This situation 
has never happened to me but a friend of mine purchased a library and 
got a full refund when it didn't meet his needs.  This was not through 
the store - it was through the developer and is probably handled on a 
case by case basis.  He was treated fairly in that respect.  These 
companies want happy customers for the most part so they will try to do 
what they can to make you feel better usually.

>  The same thing that'd prevent a group of 10 people from doing the same
>  with a hardware synth, I imagine, i.e. the extreme inconvenience.

No, not necessarily.  Those 10 people could make a copy of that CD and 
each of those 10 could happily use it when they wanted.  That, to me, 
looks like quite a convenience compared to having to go pick up the 
synth, bring it to your place, fumble through the fine manual, finally 
figure out what you wanted to do and,.... what was that? ..... Oh s**t! 
  That's your other friend at the door wanting to pick up the synth for 
his turn now.

Anyway, I have stated some of my opinions on the subject and I don't 
necessarily feel strongly against any of the debates that any of you 
have put forth.  I began posting on this subject mostly to inform and 
not to get too much into what I feel.  At the bottom line, I feel that 
a sample library developer should be compensated for their efforts and 
should be profitable in their business.  I also feel that each one of 
us should get what we pay for.  Many people feel that it is fully up to 
the developer to satisfy us.  I don't believe entirely in this.  I feel 
that we all need to have due diligence in determining if a particular 
library will work for us with the knowledge that it can't be sold or 
lent out or returned (excepted under some exceptions).  How many times 
have people gone into a store, played with a synth and took it home 
only to not like it anymore 3 days later?  As a consumer, we each bear 
some responsibility in what we buy, when we know that something cannot 
be returned nor sold.

While I believe that it would be nice to have some changes in the 
licensing agreements to benefit a wider group of people, I think that 
this needs to be more of an industry change and not each developer.  
The licensing agreements are pretty standard and have been in place for 
a very long time now which is why so many of them look nearly exactly 
the same.  Anyway, I'm not rich or anything and have spent a fortune on 
good sample libraries.  I search for deals, wait for group buys, sales, 
etc. in order to buy what I want.  I also am very thorough in 
determining if a lib is for me or not.  If I am unsure, I decide if I 
can afford to lose the $300 or $100 or WHY by buying the lib.  Good 
luck to all of you and all the best in 2005!

Fernstudio


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