EXS 24 Logic Sampler Users Group

Keith, 

I do not disagree with you, I simply don't want people to think 
their systems not capable. Yes, I am running upwards of 80 
tracks, with thousands of edits, complicated vocal comps, drum 
edits, etc., using WAVES, Aboretum, Prosoniq, mda, GRM plug 
ins, alongside native, all off of a 5200rpm VST FireWire drive on 
occassion. Of course I have to bounce these edits down as one 
long audio file to pass it on to Pro Tools for mix.

You are right, we definately have limits, and it will be interesting 
to see  where the future and "Digi" takes us. I am all for using 
whatever tools we can to help the process. I am actually looking 
into running a TDM audio interface as well to take advantage of 
the TDM plugs in Logic, plus to be able to pass on my Plug In 
settings to the Pro Tools rig for mix.

If nothing else this has sparked interesting discussion.
Thanks for the input.....



--- In exs-users@y..., Kaveh Cohen <kavehc@p...> wrote:
> Technodork, I'm afraid to inform you that you will NOT be 
seeing native systems running at the efficiency of dedicated DSP 
hardware
> systems like Pro Tools.  I own a G4 running Logic Platinum 
with lots of RAM, big drives etc. etc. and I work with Pro Tools on 
a regular
> basis.  There are several key elements you left out of your 
discussion.  First of all, the type of plug-in determines how many 
you can
> open.  Logic's own plug-ins run native 32bit under Logic's 
audio engine which is G4 native.  As a result you have a high 
plug-in count.
> The minute you start using CPU intensive plug-ins that are non 
native such as the Waves plug-ins, that plug-in count drops 
hugely.  In
> reality the native Logic plug-ins, although I love them, do not 
compete with the Gold bundle's sound quality in any respect.  As 
far as
> the track count is concerned, you may be seeing 80 tracks of 
audio, but as soon as you start making edits and cuts in those 
tracks, the
> strain on the hard drive will increase dramatically and your 
track count will decrease.  Sure if you have 80 linear tracks of 
audio with
> no edits or cuts or crossfades or any other edit of any sort, 
they'll play back.  Start cutting and your track count will drop.
> 
> The comparison between Pro Tools and native systems is 
beginning to get ridiculous.  Pro Tools allows 64 tracks of audio 
playing back with
> hundreds of edits and cuts and fades without so much as a 
hiccup.  This is not the case of native systems.  Also, most 
importantly, the
> TDM plug-ins are way better.  Way better.  For that very same 
reason, companies like Bomb Factory, Serrato, Focusrite, 
Lexicon and a
> shopping list of others will NOT support VST.  In the 
professional arena, you cannot compare say Roomulator with 
the Lexiverb.  Or compare
> Finalator with C4.  Now I'm gonna get a hundred replies saying 
that they do professional work and who am I to say you're not a
> professional if you don't own Pro Tools, so let me qualify by 
saying that Pro Tools has merely set the professional standard.  
That
> standard is first and foremost, compatibility.  Almost all pros 
working in film and tv for example own a Pro Tools rig simply so 
they can
> be one hundred percent compatible with one another.  This 
saves time since time costs money.  They simply take their 
drives and plug them
> in, and since they all have the same plug-ins, the sessions 
immediately open and play back irregardless of how many 
plug-ins or tracks or
> edits.  This is not the same process on a native system.  A 
Cubase user on his multiprocessor G4 with a gazillion megs of 
RAM and fourteen
> 500 gig firewire drives cannot simply get up and go to another 
studio with a different G4 or G3 setup running Logic or Digital 
Performer
> and be up and running in a minute, or at all.
> 
> So to answer your remarks Technodork, this system may work 
well when you work alone or if you have non-stop linear audio, 
but the moment
> things get a hair more complicated than that, native is not the 
answer.
> 
> Oh, and one more thing.  Before you get too excited about the 
new quad processor machines, remember dedicated DSP 
hardware systems like
> Pro Tools are not standing still in time.  Digidesign WILL 
continue to push their DSP farm cards to newer levels effectively 
placing them
> several levels above native, just as they are now.  Native has 
made progress, but their is still no comparison.  I, like you work 
with
> native, and I am a working professional making my entire living 
with these goodies, and although happy with native's capability, 
can in
> reality see why people pay large sums for their Pro Tools rigs.
> 
> My two cents...
> 
> Kaveh Cohen.
> 
> technodork_2000@y... wrote:
> 
> > Sadie, Sonic, ProTools, all just tools of choice, use what 
works
> > best for you. Although both Sadie and Sonic aren't real 
multitrack
> > solutions, especially when it comes down to availability of 
plug
> > ins, and cost per track. Sonic has always been rediculously
> > overpriced for what it offered, Sadie was a much more 
affordable
> > tool, used mainly only for broadcast and mastering suites, 
and
> > Sonic soon to be relegated to nothing more than a DVD
> > authoriing system. I used a Sadie for 3 years, and loved it, 
very
> > intuitive interface, but they never kept up with Digidesign on
> > number of tracks, and I/O and compatibility of plug ins.
> >
> > I completely disagree with your statement -
> > " CPU = Costs savings.  Limited amount of resource for
> > multi-track editing" thats a rediculous statement, or at least 
one
> > from someone that doesn't own a current computer, I am
> > running a Dual Processor 533mhz Mac with 1 gig of ram,
> > running Logic Platinum, and I can get over 80 tracks of audio,
> > with more plug-ins than you can count, I record them into 
Logic
> > as SDII's, transfer them over to a VST Firewire drive, and 
hand
> > them to my mix guy with Pro Tools Mix Plus, he plugs in the
> > FireWire drive, drags the files into Pro Tools, and wa
> > laaaaaah........, except he has to start muting tracks 
immediately
> > because of the 64 voice limit on Pro Tools.
> >
> > All this to say, with Multi processor machines, and increasing
> > chip speed and efficiency, and the soon to come Quad
> > Processor Macs.............host based systems will be equally
> > capable as their TDM counterparts, just wait for Logic 
5.0.........