eml synthesizers

Hello everyone,

I just joined the group and this is my very first post. I've read some past discussions about controlling EML synths with MIDI and no one seemed to have found the way. But those posts were from a year ago so I decided to ask once again if anyone has figured out anything since. Here's what I want to do:

1. To play EML-101(#781) via MIDI (using Kenton Pro-2000 mkII).
2. To sync EML-400 sequencer speed to MIDI clock.

Any input will be greatly appreciated.

Genkyo

Howdy,
How about midi for the EML 500?
Rig

--- In emlsynth@yahoogroups.com, "electrocomp2010" <21centuryman@...> wrote:
>
> Hello everyone,
>
> I just joined the group and this is my very first post. I've read some past discussions about controlling EML synths with MIDI and no one seemed to have found the way. But those posts were from a year ago so I decided to ask once again if anyone has figured out anything since. Here's what I want to do:
>
> 1. To play EML-101(#781) via MIDI (using Kenton Pro-2000 mkII).
> 2. To sync EML-400 sequencer speed to MIDI clock.
>
> Any input will be greatly appreciated.
>
> Genkyo
>

Hi Genkyo,

I don't think anyone has actually done it. When I bought my EML-101 I spoke to Kenton, who thought that they would be able to add MIDI funtionality if I took the synth to them, but in the end I prefer to work completely non-MIDI, so didn't get it done.

I don't believe there is a practical way to use an external MIDI converter with the 101 as the only way to control all four oscilators is through the keyboard connector, or by getting inside the synth.

Matt

On 16/10/2009, electrocomp2010 <21centuryman@...> wrote:

 

Hello everyone,

I just joined the group and this is my very first post. I've read some past discussions about controlling EML synths with MIDI and no one seemed to have found the way. But those posts were from a year ago so I decided to ask once again if anyone has figured out anything since. Here's what I want to do:

1. To play EML-101(#781) via MIDI (using Kenton Pro-2000 mkII).
2. To sync EML-400 sequencer speed to MIDI clock.

Any input will be greatly appreciated.

Genkyo

--- In emlsynth@yahoogroups.com, "electrocomp2010" <21centuryman@...> wrote:

>
> Hello everyone,
>
> I just joined the group and this is my very first post. I've read some past discussions about controlling EML synths with MIDI and no one seemed to have found the way. But those posts were from a year ago so I decided to ask once again if anyone has figured out anything since. Here's what I want to do:
>
> 1. To play EML-101(#781) via MIDI (using Kenton Pro-2000 mkII).
> 2. To sync EML-400 sequencer speed to MIDI clock.
>
> Any input will be greatly appreciated.
>
> Genkyo
>

It may not be necessary to synch the sequencer speed to midi clock speed via some kind of midi to VC converter. The sequencer's VC clock can be driven by any kind of voltage spikes in a regular audio signal such as what would come from a click track. If you have any way of producing audio clicks that would be in synch to the midi clock, I think that's as far as you need to go. I don't think there would be any further advantage in using a midi clock to VC converter.

It can be tricky to get the sequencer to trigger it's first event at the right time in the count. You have to make sure no clicks cause the the VC clock to respond and trigger event #1 before you want it to. If even one click gets thru early, the VC clock will trigger an event and now the whole sequence pattern is still in synch with your source but shifted forward. This problem would exist even with the use of a midi clock to VC clock converter.

Might be interesting to go the other way, that is to have the sequencer's VC clock speed control the midi clock speed. I think that would require a converter.

Hi Matt,

Thanks for your reply. Since I posted my last message I've had some advancement. I've found in the new feature section of the manual (last page) that the CM3 jack in the KEYBOARD section is actually controller input to control the KB2 oscillators (OSC 3 and 4). I connected the CV to CM3 and the gate to trigger, and I was almost successful to control those two oscillators, but the scaling was about a half step off. The Kenton Pro-2000mkII was set to the 1.2V/octave scaling. Do you think this means the Kenton's voltage setting is not right for the EML and if the Kenton can generate the correct voltage then the correct scaling can be achieved? I tried other CV/Hz settings but 1.2V/octave was the closest to the regular scale. What do you think?

Genkyo

--- In emlsynth@yahoogroups.com, Matt <matt.fretton@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Genkyo,
>
> I don't think anyone has actually done it. When I bought my EML-101 I spoke
> to Kenton, who thought that they would be able to add MIDI funtionality if I
> took the synth to them, but in the end I prefer to work completely non-MIDI,
> so didn't get it done.
>
> I don't believe there is a practical way to use an external MIDI converter
> with the 101 as the only way to control all four oscilators is through the
> keyboard connector, or by getting inside the synth.
>
> Matt
>
> On 16/10/2009, electrocomp2010 <21centuryman@...> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > Hello everyone,
> >
> > I just joined the group and this is my very first post. I've read some past
> > discussions about controlling EML synths with MIDI and no one seemed to have
> > found the way. But those posts were from a year ago so I decided to ask once
> > again if anyone has figured out anything since. Here's what I want to do:
> >
> > 1. To play EML-101(#781) via MIDI (using Kenton Pro-2000 mkII).
> > 2. To sync EML-400 sequencer speed to MIDI clock.
> >
> > Any input will be greatly appreciated.
> >
> > Genkyo
> >
> >
> >
>

Hi Mike,

Thanks for your reply. Can you clarify the following: do you mean to feed some voltage spikes to the "Vext" jack? And do you set the clock rate to "Vclk" or "OFF"?

This is what I tried: I have Kenton Pro-2000mkII and it can generate a 5 volt clock pulse related to the MIDI clock. I fed it to Vext and tried both Vclk and OFF settings but both didn't quite work. It seems the extra voltage increases the speed that's already set by the clock slider in both settings. Have you actually done this before?

As you wrote, the alternative would be to sync MIDI to EML's clock speed. But is there a such thing as audio-to-MIDI converter?

Appreciate any input. Thank you.

Genkyo

--- In emlsynth@yahoogroups.com, "mike_b_eml" <digiboy@...> wrote:
>
> It may not be necessary to synch the sequencer speed to midi clock speed via some kind of midi to VC converter. The sequencer's VC clock can be driven by any kind of voltage spikes in a regular audio signal such as what would come from a click track. If you have any way of producing audio clicks that would be in synch to the midi clock, I think that's as far as you need to go. I don't think there would be any further advantage in using a midi clock to VC converter.
>
> It can be tricky to get the sequencer to trigger it's first event at the right time in the count. You have to make sure no clicks cause the the VC clock to respond and trigger event #1 before you want it to. If even one click gets thru early, the VC clock will trigger an event and now the whole sequence pattern is still in synch with your source but shifted forward. This problem would exist even with the use of a midi clock to VC clock converter.
>
> Might be interesting to go the other way, that is to have the sequencer's VC clock speed control the midi clock speed. I think that would require a converter.
>

--- In emlsynth@yahoogroups.com, "electrocomp2010" <21centuryman@...> wrote:
>
> Hello everyone,
>
> I just joined the group and this is my very first post. I've read some past
discussions about controlling EML synths with MIDI and no one seemed to have
found the way. But those posts were from a year ago so I decided to ask once
again if anyone has figured out anything since. Here's what I want to do:
>
> 1. To play EML-101(#781) via MIDI (using Kenton Pro-2000 mkII).
> 2. To sync EML-400 sequencer speed to MIDI clock.
>
> Any input will be greatly appreciated.
>
> Genkyo

Hi Genkyo,

I think you'll need to do a bit more searching on this subject as, if I remember correctly, although the oscilators on the EML-101 works on 1.2v/oct, the input jacks scale in a different way, which is why you can't get it to work. Have a look at Dave Cornutt's website linked below as it's pretty informative on this and other subjects concerning the 101.

http://home.hiwaay.net/~cornutt/Music/Web%20Page/EML.html

The consensus seems to be that if you want to be able to control all four oscilators & scale properly you need to connect directly via the keyboard connector. You're not the first person who has wanted to MIDIfy your 101, but I don't think anyone has actually achieved it. I gave up as it would have cost GBP 300 or more for Kenton to build a converter into the 101 and anyway, I don't like or use MIDI!

Best wishes,
Matt

On 20/10/2009, electrocomp2010 <21centuryman@...> wrote:

 

Hi Matt,

Thanks for your reply. Since I posted my last message I've had some advancement. I've found in the new feature section of the manual (last page) that the CM3 jack in the KEYBOARD section is actually controller input to control the KB2 oscillators (OSC 3 and 4). I connected the CV to CM3 and the gate to trigger, and I was almost successful to control those two oscillators, but the scaling was about a half step off. The Kenton Pro-2000mkII was set to the 1.2V/octave scaling. Do you think this means the Kenton's voltage setting is not right for the EML and if the Kenton can generate the correct voltage then the correct scaling can be achieved? I tried other CV/Hz settings but 1.2V/octave was the closest to the regular scale. What do you think?

Genkyo

--- In emlsynth@yahoogroups.com, Matt <matt.fretton@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Genkyo,
>
> I don't think anyone has actually done it. When I bought my EML-101 I spoke
> to Kenton, who thought that they would be able to add MIDI funtionality if I
> took the synth to them, but in the end I prefer to work completely non-MIDI,
> so didn't get it done.
>
> I don't believe there is a practical way to use an external MIDI converter
> with the 101 as the only way to control all four oscilators is through the
> keyboard connector, or by getting inside the synth.
>
> Matt
>
> On 16/10/2009, electrocomp2010 <21centuryman@...> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > Hello everyone,
> >
> > I just joined the group and this is my very first post. I've read some past
> > discussions about controlling EML synths with MIDI and no one seemed to have
> > found the way. But those posts were from a year ago so I decided to ask once
> > again if anyone has figured out anything since. Here's what I want to do:
> >
> > 1. To play EML-101(#781) via MIDI (using Kenton Pro-2000 mkII).
> > 2. To sync EML-400 sequencer speed to MIDI clock.
> >
> > Any input will be greatly appreciated.
> >
> > Genkyo
> >
> >
> >
>

Hello Genkyo,

Ah yes! A long time ago I had my EML-101 being somewhat controlled by a Kenton. I never could remember how I did it. Flash forward to your message and viola! It's not perfect but you can get some control with the method.

- Oliver

--- In emlsynth@yahoogroups.com, "electrocomp2010" <21centuryman@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> Hi Matt,
>
> Thanks for your reply. Since I posted my last message I've had some advancement. I've found in the new feature section of the manual (last page) that the CM3 jack in the KEYBOARD section is actually controller input to control the KB2 oscillators (OSC 3 and 4). I connected the CV to CM3 and the gate to trigger, and I was almost successful to control those two oscillators, but the scaling was about a half step off. The Kenton Pro-2000mkII was set to the 1.2V/octave scaling. Do you think this means the Kenton's voltage setting is not right for the EML and if the Kenton can generate the correct voltage then the correct scaling can be achieved? I tried other CV/Hz settings but 1.2V/octave was the closest to the regular scale. What do you think?
>
> Genkyo
>
>
>
> --- In emlsynth@yahoogroups.com, Matt <matt.fretton@> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Genkyo,
> >
> > I don't think anyone has actually done it. When I bought my EML-101 I spoke
> > to Kenton, who thought that they would be able to add MIDI funtionality if I
> > took the synth to them, but in the end I prefer to work completely non-MIDI,
> > so didn't get it done.
> >
> > I don't believe there is a practical way to use an external MIDI converter
> > with the 101 as the only way to control all four oscilators is through the
> > keyboard connector, or by getting inside the synth.
> >
> > Matt
> >
> > On 16/10/2009, electrocomp2010 <21centuryman@> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Hello everyone,
> > >
> > > I just joined the group and this is my very first post. I've read some past
> > > discussions about controlling EML synths with MIDI and no one seemed to have
> > > found the way. But those posts were from a year ago so I decided to ask once
> > > again if anyone has figured out anything since. Here's what I want to do:
> > >
> > > 1. To play EML-101(#781) via MIDI (using Kenton Pro-2000 mkII).
> > > 2. To sync EML-400 sequencer speed to MIDI clock.
> > >
> > > Any input will be greatly appreciated.
> > >
> > > Genkyo
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>

Hi Matt,

Great info! According to Dave Cornutt, you are right: CM3 input doesn't take 1.2V/oct scaling. He mentioned in his web page that he modified his EML 101 so that the CM2 output jack is now an input and it takes 1.2V/oct scaling. I think that's what I need.

I wanted to contact Dave to ask what he did but there was no contact info anywhere in his web site. Do you know how to contact him?

Regards,
Genkyo

PS
Don't hate MIDI. She's not so bad!

--- In emlsynth@yahoogroups.com, Matt <matt.fretton@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Genkyo,
>
> I think you'll need to do a bit more searching on this subject as, if I
> remember correctly, although the oscilators on the EML-101 works on
> 1.2v/oct, the input jacks scale in a different way, which is why you can't
> get it to work. Have a look at Dave Cornutt's website linked below as it's
> pretty informative on this and other subjects concerning the 101.
>
> http://home.hiwaay.net/~cornutt/Music/Web%20Page/EML.html
>
> The consensus seems to be that if you want to be able to control all four
> oscilators & scale properly you need to connect directly via the keyboard
> connector. You're not the first person who has wanted to MIDIfy your 101,
> but I don't think anyone has actually achieved it. I gave up as it would
> have cost GBP 300 or more for Kenton to build a converter into the 101 and
> anyway, I don't like or use MIDI!
>
> Best wishes,
> Matt
>
> On 20/10/2009, electrocomp2010 <21centuryman@...> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Hi Matt,
> >
> > Thanks for your reply. Since I posted my last message I've had some
> > advancement. I've found in the new feature section of the manual (last page)
> > that the CM3 jack in the KEYBOARD section is actually controller input to
> > control the KB2 oscillators (OSC 3 and 4). I connected the CV to CM3 and the
> > gate to trigger, and I was almost successful to control those two
> > oscillators, but the scaling was about a half step off. The Kenton
> > Pro-2000mkII was set to the 1.2V/octave scaling. Do you think this means the
> > Kenton's voltage setting is not right for the EML and if the Kenton can
> > generate the correct voltage then the correct scaling can be achieved? I
> > tried other CV/Hz settings but 1.2V/octave was the closest to the regular
> > scale. What do you think?
> >
> > Genkyo
> >
> > --- In emlsynth@yahoogroups.com <emlsynth%40yahoogroups.com>, Matt
> > <matt.fretton@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi Genkyo,
> > >
> > > I don't think anyone has actually done it. When I bought my EML-101 I
> > spoke
> > > to Kenton, who thought that they would be able to add MIDI funtionality
> > if I
> > > took the synth to them, but in the end I prefer to work completely
> > non-MIDI,
> > > so didn't get it done.
> > >
> > > I don't believe there is a practical way to use an external MIDI
> > converter
> > > with the 101 as the only way to control all four oscilators is through
> > the
> > > keyboard connector, or by getting inside the synth.
> > >
> > > Matt
> > >
> > > On 16/10/2009, electrocomp2010 <21centuryman@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Hello everyone,
> > > >
> > > > I just joined the group and this is my very first post. I've read some
> > past
> > > > discussions about controlling EML synths with MIDI and no one seemed to
> > have
> > > > found the way. But those posts were from a year ago so I decided to ask
> > once
> > > > again if anyone has figured out anything since. Here's what I want to
> > do:
> > > >
> > > > 1. To play EML-101(#781) via MIDI (using Kenton Pro-2000 mkII).
> > > > 2. To sync EML-400 sequencer speed to MIDI clock.
> > > >
> > > > Any input will be greatly appreciated.
> > > >
> > > > Genkyo
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>

Hi Genkyo,

Dave is, I believe, a member of this group.

MIDI is OK I guess, but I hate the way it makes everything convenient and repeatable - I feel the same about patch memories. Things that happen once are, for me, so much more interesting than those which can be repeated again & again. And recordings allow us to capture inspiration and listen to it more than once. That's why the EML-101 is so good: it's almost impossible to get the same sound from it more than once.

Matt

On 20/10/2009, electrocomp2010 <21centuryman@...> wrote:

 

Hi Matt,

Great info! According to Dave Cornutt, you are right: CM3 input doesn't take 1.2V/oct scaling. He mentioned in his web page that he modified his EML 101 so that the CM2 output jack is now an input and it takes 1.2V/oct scaling. I think that's what I need.

I wanted to contact Dave to ask what he did but there was no contact info anywhere in his web site. Do you know how to contact him?

Regards,
Genkyo

PS
Don't hate MIDI. She's not so bad!

--- In emlsynth@yahoogroups.com, Matt <matt.fretton@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Genkyo,
>
> I think you'll need to do a bit more searching on this subject as, if I
> remember correctly, although the oscilators on the EML-101 works on
> 1.2v/oct, the input jacks scale in a different way, which is why you can't
> get it to work. Have a look at Dave Cornutt's website linked below as it's
> pretty informative on this and other subjects concerning the 101.
>
> http://home.hiwaay.net/~cornutt/Music/Web%20Page/EML.html
>
> The consensus seems to be that if you want to be able to control all four
> oscilators & scale properly you need to connect directly via the keyboard
> connector. You're not the first person who has wanted to MIDIfy your 101,
> but I don't think anyone has actually achieved it. I gave up as it would
> have cost GBP 300 or more for Kenton to build a converter into the 101 and
> anyway, I don't like or use MIDI!
>
> Best wishes,
> Matt
>
> On 20/10/2009, electrocomp2010 <21centuryman@...> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Hi Matt,
> >
> > Thanks for your reply. Since I posted my last message I've had some
> > advancement. I've found in the new feature section of the manual (last page)
> > that the CM3 jack in the KEYBOARD section is actually controller input to
> > control the KB2 oscillators (OSC 3 and 4). I connected the CV to CM3 and the
> > gate to trigger, and I was almost successful to control those two
> > oscillators, but the scaling was about a half step off. The Kenton
> > Pro-2000mkII was set to the 1.2V/octave scaling. Do you think this means the
> > Kenton's voltage setting is not right for the EML and if the Kenton can
> > generate the correct voltage then the correct scaling can be achieved? I
> > tried other CV/Hz settings but 1.2V/octave was the closest to the regular
> > scale. What do you think?
> >
> > Genkyo
> >
> > --- In emlsynth@yahoogroups.com <emlsynth%40yahoogroups.com>, Matt

> > <matt.fretton@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi Genkyo,
> > >
> > > I don't think anyone has actually done it. When I bought my EML-101 I
> > spoke
> > > to Kenton, who thought that they would be able to add MIDI funtionality
> > if I
> > > took the synth to them, but in the end I prefer to work completely
> > non-MIDI,
> > > so didn't get it done.
> > >
> > > I don't believe there is a practical way to use an external MIDI
> > converter
> > > with the 101 as the only way to control all four oscilators is through
> > the
> > > keyboard connector, or by getting inside the synth.
> > >
> > > Matt
> > >
> > > On 16/10/2009, electrocomp2010 <21centuryman@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Hello everyone,
> > > >
> > > > I just joined the group and this is my very first post. I've read some
> > past
> > > > discussions about controlling EML synths with MIDI and no one seemed to
> > have
> > > > found the way. But those posts were from a year ago so I decided to ask
> > once
> > > > again if anyone has figured out anything since. Here's what I want to
> > do:
> > > >
> > > > 1. To play EML-101(#781) via MIDI (using Kenton Pro-2000 mkII).
> > > > 2. To sync EML-400 sequencer speed to MIDI clock.
> > > >
> > > > Any input will be greatly appreciated.
> > > >
> > > > Genkyo
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>

> Hi Mike,
>
> Thanks for your reply. Can you clarify the following: do you mean to feed some voltage spikes to the "Vext" jack? And do you set the clock rate to "Vclk" or "OFF"?

I don't have my 400 set up where I could test that. I don't really use it that way but I know I got it to trigger off simple audio pulses. As I recall the setup wasn't all that intuitive (as some of the other 400 operations are not very intuitive) but I found it by experimenting. I do recall that there was a matter of adjusting levels so that the pulses didn't over-trigger more than one event at a time. If I have some time I will fool with it and see if I can find the settings again.

It occurs to me that going the other direction, using the EML sequencer to drive midi clock, might not need a converter either. I think there is at least one way of outputting audio pulses FROM the sequencer, one per event. Aren't there beat detectors in some MIDI devices that could track those pulses to drive the midi clock? I;ve never tried it but...

>
> This is what I tried: I have Kenton Pro-2000mkII and it can generate a 5 volt clock pulse related to the MIDI clock. I fed it to Vext and tried both Vclk and OFF settings but both didn't quite work. It seems the extra voltage increases the speed that's already set by the clock slider in both settings. Have you actually done this before?
>
> As you wrote, the alternative would be to sync MIDI to EML's clock speed. But is there a such thing as audio-to-MIDI converter?
>
> Appreciate any input. Thank you.
>
> Genkyo
>
>
> --- In emlsynth@yahoogroups.com, "mike_b_eml" <digiboy@> wrote:
> >
> > It may not be necessary to synch the sequencer speed to midi clock speed via some kind of midi to VC converter. The sequencer's VC clock can be driven by any kind of voltage spikes in a regular audio signal such as what would come from a click track. If you have any way of producing audio clicks that would be in synch to the midi clock, I think that's as far as you need to go. I don't think there would be any further advantage in using a midi clock to VC converter.
> >
> > It can be tricky to get the sequencer to trigger it's first event at the right time in the count. You have to make sure no clicks cause the the VC clock to respond and trigger event #1 before you want it to. If even one click gets thru early, the VC clock will trigger an event and now the whole sequence pattern is still in synch with your source but shifted forward. This problem would exist even with the use of a midi clock to VC clock converter.
> >
> > Might be interesting to go the other way, that is to have the sequencer's VC clock speed control the midi clock speed. I think that would require a converter.
> >
>
> --- In emlsynth@yahoogroups.com, "electrocomp2010" <21centuryman@> wrote:
> >
> > Hello everyone,
> >
> > I just joined the group and this is my very first post. I've read some past
> discussions about controlling EML synths with MIDI and no one seemed to have
> found the way. But those posts were from a year ago so I decided to ask once
> again if anyone has figured out anything since. Here's what I want to do:
> >
> > 1. To play EML-101(#781) via MIDI (using Kenton Pro-2000 mkII).
> > 2. To sync EML-400 sequencer speed to MIDI clock.
> >
> > Any input will be greatly appreciated.
> >
> > Genkyo
>

Hello!

I've been reading some of the discussions of the EML101 and its MIDI-compatibility and I wanted to share my solutions!


Firstly, the EML101 uses 1.2V/Octave for its keyboard CV. The 'Exponential board' in the EML converts the 1.2V/Oct Linear CV to Exponential CV for the oscillators.

So.. ..the oscillators are actually controlled by an exponential CV!

On my EML I simply added a 1.2V/Oct Input, a 1.2V/Oct Output, an Exponential Input, and an Exponential Output. It is now fully compatible with my (modified) Minikorg 2, my home-made modular gear, and with any standard MIDI->CV converter.

Also, it is very easy to make an Audio->Voltage Trigger circuit. I will find my (super-simple) schematic if anyone is interested. This lets my trigger percussion tracks from the EML by simple computer-sequenced pulses or clicks.


I would REALLY love to add a circuit to make delayed vibrato possible on the EML101. The best reference circuit I've found is from one of the ARP 2600 keyboard units. Any ideas, anyone?


I look forward to any responses!

-Robert Scott
myspace.com/randrewscott

--- In emlsynth@yahoogroups.com, "quiet_channel" <quiet_channel@...> wrote:

>
> Hello!
>
>
> I would REALLY love to add a circuit to make delayed vibrato possible on the EML101. The best reference circuit I've found is from one of the ARP 2600 keyboard units. Any ideas, anyone?
>
>
> I look forward to any responses!
>
> -Robert Scott
> myspace.com/randrewscott
>

Hi Robert

I log on here once in a blue moon, your 101 is able to induce a delayed vibrato using one of the envelopes, the patch allows vibrato onlyb after the attack has reached a certain level. I'll try to find a layout for the patch and post it.

Also a few years back I posted a schematic in the photo section for a small circiut to convert the 1.2 v per octave.

Robert

A number of my works from the 1980's using the 101 and 500 can be found here
http://www.myspace.com/492784309