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2014-12-11 by clays91740@...
Hello Group, My DG-1 (wagon grand) and DSR-1 were exposed to very heavy smoke and soot in a fire at my home. I'm not sure if it still works or not. I'm wondering if any one on the list has had any experience with any like this. I purchased the piano new in 1992 and really want to keep it. I appreciate any information available. Clay Shelton Petersburg, VA
2014-12-11 by Spencer Chase
Hello Group,My DG-1 (wagon grand) and DSR-1 were exposed to very heavy smoke and soot in a fire at my home. I'm not sure if it still works or not. I'm wondering if any one on the list has had any experience with any like this.I purchased the piano new in 1992 and really want to keep it. I appreciate any information available.Clay SheltonPetersburg, VA
-- Best regards, Spencer Chase 67550-Bell Springs Rd. Garberville, CA 95542 Postal service only. Laytonville, CA 95454 UPS only. Spencer@... http://www.spencerserolls.com (425) 791-0309
2014-12-11 by clays91740@...
Dear Spencer, Thank you for taking your time to provide me with so much excellent information. Are there circuit boards inside the piano itself as well as the wagon and DSR-1? Clay In a message dated 12/11/2014 11:51:36 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, disklavier@yahoogroups.com writes: i have not had experience with a piano in a house fire but did have a workshop fire and a lot of equipment exposed to smoke that has similarities to the stuff in an electronically controlled piano. not much burned in the fire, but there was a little plastic that did burn . it made stinky soot that covered everything. Servicemaster cleaned everything but i had to do the electronics. i had a cnc milling machine and other stuff that insurance would not pay much for so i took all the electronics apart and cleaned that stuff myself. i doubt that anyone other than a very expensive "professional;" would have taken the care to do it right. everything still works. there are smoke stains on somw metal parts that are impossible to remove and wood stuff fared even worse. A DKV will have all the aspects of the worst stuff to try to save in my workshop and i think you will not be happy with the results which will probably cost a fortune. probably better to scrap it if you can convince the insurance company to pay much of anything for it. get some advise as to how to deal with the insurance company. most likely they will depreciate a 1992 piano to almost nothing. if you have an actual replacement cost policy you may do well but there are all sorts of exclusions and the company will likely to try their best to avoid paying much. if you are going to try to save the piano yourself, at minimum you would need to examine all circuit boards and clean them. except for certain components that may hold water forever, you can actually wash most of this stuff in appropriate detergeants as long as you do not connect power to anything until you know it is completely dry. i have a vacuum oven so i could dry slowly under vacuum. all connectors including socketed chips should be removed and lubricated with a contact cleaner/lube that contains polphenyl ether. felt parts might have to be replaced. wooden cabinet parts can probably be cleaned well enough, without damage that they won't smell too much. action parts are going to be hopeless if they got much of a dose of smoke. wound strings could probably be cleaned but replacement is probably a better option. ozone does an amazing job of neutralizing smoke odors. a "professional" would tent the piano and apply ozone for hours or days as needed. as more smoke odor comes out of wooden and other porous parts this will need to be repeated. i elected to not have the drywall and insulation removed and replaced in my workshop and 2 years later there is still a lingering smell. i made an ozone generator (really easy, you can find plans online) and run it occasionally if the smoke odor is especially bad. just a few hours helps. ozone is very corrosive to metal parts especially steel and iron so you have to limit its use. there are also miracle products that "neutralize" odors and some are very effective but they leave their own very strong odor for a while. i like XO which is a little difficult to find but Amazon probably has it. Vets use it to neutralize anal sac contents when they squeeze your dog's sacs so it can neutralize anything :) On 12/11/2014 6:39 AM, _clays91740@..._ (mailto:clays91740@...) [disklavier] wrote: Hello Group, My DG-1 (wagon grand) and DSR-1 were exposed to very heavy smoke and soot in a fire at my home. I'm not sure if it still works or not. I'm wondering if any one on the list has had any experience with any like this. I purchased the piano new in 1992 and really want to keep it. I appreciate any information available. Clay Shelton Petersburg, VA -- Best regards, Spencer Chase 67550-Bell Springs Rd. Garberville, CA 95542 Postal service only. Laytonville, CA 95454 UPS only. _Spencer@spencerserolls.com_ (mailto:Spencer@...) _http://www.spencerserolls.com_ (http://www.spencerserolls.com/) (425) 791-0309
2014-12-11 by Spencer Chase
Dear Spencer,Thank you for taking your time to provide me with so much excellent information. Are there circuit boards inside the piano itself as well as the wagon and DSR-1?ClayIn a message dated 12/11/2014 11:51:36 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, disklavier@yahoogroups.com writes:i have not had experience with a piano in a house fire but did have a workshop fire and a lot of equipment exposed to smoke that has similarities to the stuff in an electronically controlled piano.
not much burned in the fire, but there was a little plastic that did burn . it made stinky soot that covered everything. Servicemaster cleaned everything but i had to do the electronics. i had a cnc milling machine and other stuff that insurance would not pay much for so i took all the electronics apart and cleaned that stuff myself. i doubt that anyone other than a very expensive "professional;" would have taken the care to do it right. everything still works. there are smoke stains on somw metal parts that are impossible to remove and wood stuff fared even worse.
A DKV will have all the aspects of the worst stuff to try to save in my workshop and i think you will not be happy with the results which will probably cost a fortune. probably better to scrap it if you can convince the insurance company to pay much of anything for it. get some advise as to how to deal with the insurance company. most likely they will depreciate a 1992 piano to almost nothing. if you have an actual replacement cost policy you may do well but there are all sorts of exclusions and the company will likely to try their best to avoid paying much.
if you are going to try to save the piano yourself, at minimum you would need to examine all circuit boards and clean them. except for certain components that may hold water forever, you can actually wash most of this stuff in appropriate detergeants as long as you do not connect power to anything until you know it is completely dry. i have a vacuum oven so i could dry slowly under vacuum. all connectors including socketed chips should be removed and lubricated with a contact cleaner/lube that contains polphenyl ether. felt parts might have to be replaced. wooden cabinet parts can probably be cleaned well enough, without damage that they won't smell too much. action parts are going to be hopeless if they got much of a dose of smoke.
wound strings could probably be cleaned but replacement is probably a better option.
ozone does an amazing job of neutralizing smoke odors. a "professional" would tent the piano and apply ozone for hours or days as needed. as more smoke odor comes out of wooden and other porous parts this will need to be repeated. i elected to not have the drywall and insulation removed and replaced in my workshop and 2 years later there is still a lingering smell. i made an ozone generator (really easy, you can find plans online) and run it occasionally if the smoke odor is especially bad. just a few hours helps. ozone is very corrosive to metal parts especially steel and iron so you have to limit its use. there are also miracle products that "neutralize" odors and some are very effective but they leave their own very strong odor for a while. i like XO which is a little difficult to find but Amazon probably has it. Vets use it to neutralize anal sac contents when they squeeze your dog's sacs so it can neutralize anything :)
On 12/11/2014 6:39 AM, clays91740@... [disklavier] wrote:
Hello Group,My DG-1 (wagon grand) and DSR-1 were exposed to very heavy smoke and soot in a fire at my home. I'm not sure if it still works or not. I'm wondering if any one on the list has had any experience with any like this.I purchased the piano new in 1992 and really want to keep it. I appreciate any information available.Clay SheltonPetersburg, VA
-- Best regards, Spencer Chase 67550-Bell Springs Rd. Garberville, CA 95542 Postal service only. Laytonville, CA 95454 UPS only. Spencer@... http://www.spencerserolls.com (425) 791-0309
-- Best regards, Spencer Chase 67550-Bell Springs Rd. Garberville, CA 95542 Postal service only. Laytonville, CA 95454 UPS only. Spencer@... http://www.spencerserolls.com (425) 791-0309
2014-12-11 by clays91740@...
It was an electrical fire that destroyed a 42-inch flat screen tv and many old video tapes. there was lots of smoke; the piano was in another room about 25 feet away and it is covered with heavy black, stinky soot. I will look inside it tomorrow. Thanks In a message dated 12/11/2014 5:40:06 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, disklavier@yahoogroups.com writes: i do not know your piano specifically but every solenoid piano i have ever seen does have some circuitry in the piano. i did not mention in my first post that there is a wide range of possible damage from minor annoying odor to serious corrosion and electronic damage. it all depends on how much smoke there was, what was in the smoke and how far it got into the piano. what kind of fire was it, how severe, how close to the piano etc? the fire i had burnd some plastic which can create very corrosive and toxic deposits on and in everything exposed. On 12/11/2014 12:50 PM, _clays91740@..._ (mailto:clays91740@...) [disklavier] wrote: Dear Spencer, Thank you for taking your time to provide me with so much excellent information. Are there circuit boards inside the piano itself as well as the wagon and DSR-1? Clay In a message dated 12/11/2014 11:51:36 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, _disklavier@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:disklavier@yahoogroups.com) writes: i have not had experience with a piano in a house fire but did have a workshop fire and a lot of equipment exposed to smoke that has similarities to the stuff in an electronically controlled piano. not much burned in the fire, but there was a little plastic that did burn . it made stinky soot that covered everything. Servicemaster cleaned everything but i had to do the electronics. i had a cnc milling machine and other stuff that insurance would not pay much for so i took all the electronics apart and cleaned that stuff myself. i doubt that anyone other than a very expensive "professional;" would have taken the care to do it right. everything still works. there are smoke stains on somw metal parts that are impossible to remove and wood stuff fared even worse. A DKV will have all the aspects of the worst stuff to try to save in my workshop and i think you will not be happy with the results which will probably cost a fortune. probably better to scrap it if you can convince the insurance company to pay much of anything for it. get some advise as to how to deal with the insurance company. most likely they will depreciate a 1992 piano to almost nothing. if you have an actual replacement cost policy you may do well but there are all sorts of exclusions and the company will likely to try their best to avoid paying much. if you are going to try to save the piano yourself, at minimum you would need to examine all circuit boards and clean them. except for certain components that may hold water forever, you can actually wash most of this stuff in appropriate detergeants as long as you do not connect power to anything until you know it is completely dry. i have a vacuum oven so i could dry slowly under vacuum. all connectors including socketed chips should be removed and lubricated with a contact cleaner/lube that contains polphenyl ether. felt parts might have to be replaced. wooden cabinet parts can probably be cleaned well enough, without damage that they won't smell too much. action parts are going to be hopeless if they got much of a dose of smoke. wound strings could probably be cleaned but replacement is probably a better option. ozone does an amazing job of neutralizing smoke odors. a "professional" would tent the piano and apply ozone for hours or days as needed. as more smoke odor comes out of wooden and other porous parts this will need to be repeated. i elected to not have the drywall and insulation removed and replaced in my workshop and 2 years later there is still a lingering smell. i made an ozone generator (really easy, you can find plans online) and run it occasionally if the smoke odor is especially bad. just a few hours helps. ozone is very corrosive to metal parts especially steel and iron so you have to limit its use. there are also miracle products that "neutralize" odors and some are very effective but they leave their own very strong odor for a while. i like XO which is a little difficult to find but Amazon probably has it. Vets use it to neutralize anal sac contents when they squeeze your dog's sacs so it can neutralize anything :) On 12/11/2014 6:39 AM, _clays91740@..._ (mailto:clays91740@...) [disklavier] wrote: Hello Group, My DG-1 (wagon grand) and DSR-1 were exposed to very heavy smoke and soot in a fire at my home. I'm not sure if it still works or not. I'm wondering if any one on the list has had any experience with any like this. I purchased the piano new in 1992 and really want to keep it. I appreciate any information available. Clay Shelton Petersburg, VA -- Best regards, Spencer Chase 67550-Bell Springs Rd. Garberville, CA 95542 Postal service only. Laytonville, CA 95454 UPS only. _Spencer@..._ (mailto:Spencer@spencerserolls.com) _http://www.spencerserolls.com_ (http://www.spencerserolls.com/) (425) 791-0309 -- Best regards, Spencer Chase 67550-Bell Springs Rd. Garberville, CA 95542 Postal service only. Laytonville, CA 95454 UPS only. _Spencer@..._ (mailto:Spencer@...) _http://www.spencerserolls.com_ (http://www.spencerserolls.com/) (425) 791-0309
2014-12-11 by Spencer Chase
It was an electrical fire that destroyed a 42-inch flat screen tv and many old video tapes. there was lots of smoke; the piano was in another room about 25 feet away and it is covered with heavy black, stinky soot. I will look inside it tomorrow.ThanksIn a message dated 12/11/2014 5:40:06 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, disklavier@yahoogroups.com writes:i do not know your piano specifically but every solenoid piano i have ever seen does have some circuitry in the piano.
i did not mention in my first post that there is a wide range of possible damage from minor annoying odor to serious corrosion and electronic damage. it all depends on how much smoke there was, what was in the smoke and how far it got into the piano.
what kind of fire was it, how severe, how close to the piano etc? the fire i had burnd some plastic which can create very corrosive and toxic deposits on and in everything exposed.
On 12/11/2014 12:50 PM, clays91740@... [disklavier] wrote:
Dear Spencer,Thank you for taking your time to provide me with so much excellent information. Are there circuit boards inside the piano itself as well as the wagon and DSR-1?ClayIn a message dated 12/11/2014 11:51:36 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, disklavier@yahoogroups.com writes:i have not had experience with a piano in a house fire but did have a workshop fire and a lot of equipment exposed to smoke that has similarities to the stuff in an electronically controlled piano.
not much burned in the fire, but there was a little plastic that did burn . it made stinky soot that covered everything. Servicemaster cleaned everything but i had to do the electronics. i had a cnc milling machine and other stuff that insurance would not pay much for so i took all the electronics apart and cleaned that stuff myself. i doubt that anyone other than a very expensive "professional;" would have taken the care to do it right. everything still works. there are smoke stains on somw metal parts that are impossible to remove and wood stuff fared even worse.
A DKV will have all the aspects of the worst stuff to try to save in my workshop and i think you will not be happy with the results which will probably cost a fortune. probably better to scrap it if you can convince the insurance company to pay much of anything for it. get some advise as to how to deal with the insurance company. most likely they will depreciate a 1992 piano to almost nothing. if you have an actual replacement cost policy you may do well but there are all sorts of exclusions and the company will likely to try their best to avoid paying much.
if you are going to try to save the piano yourself, at minimum you would need to examine all circuit boards and clean them. except for certain components that may hold water forever, you can actually wash most of this stuff in appropriate detergeants as long as you do not connect power to anything until you know it is completely dry. i have a vacuum oven so i could dry slowly under vacuum. all connectors including socketed chips should be removed and lubricated with a contact cleaner/lube that contains polphenyl ether. felt parts might have to be replaced. wooden cabinet parts can probably be cleaned well enough, without damage that they won't smell too much. action parts are going to be hopeless if they got much of a dose of smoke.
wound strings could probably be cleaned but replacement is probably a better option.
ozone does an amazing job of neutralizing smoke odors. a "professional" would tent the piano and apply ozone for hours or days as needed. as more smoke odor comes out of wooden and other porous parts this will need to be repeated. i elected to not have the drywall and insulation removed and replaced in my workshop and 2 years later there is still a lingering smell. i made an ozone generator (really easy, you can find plans online) and run it occasionally if the smoke odor is especially bad. just a few hours helps. ozone is very corrosive to metal parts especially steel and iron so you have to limit its use. there are also miracle products that "neutralize" odors and some are very effective but they leave their own very strong odor for a while. i like XO which is a little difficult to find but Amazon probably has it. Vets use it to neutralize anal sac contents when they squeeze your dog's sacs so it can neutralize anything :)
On 12/11/2014 6:39 AM, clays91740@... [disklavier] wrote:
Hello Group,My DG-1 (wagon grand) and DSR-1 were exposed to very heavy smoke and soot in a fire at my home. I'm not sure if it still works or not. I'm wondering if any one on the list has had any experience with any like this.I purchased the piano new in 1992 and really want to keep it. I appreciate any information available.Clay SheltonPetersburg, VA
-- Best regards, Spencer Chase 67550-Bell Springs Rd. Garberville, CA 95542 Postal service only. Laytonville, CA 95454 UPS only. Spencer@... http://www.spencerserolls.com (425) 791-0309
-- Best regards, Spencer Chase 67550-Bell Springs Rd. Garberville, CA 95542 Postal service only. Laytonville, CA 95454 UPS only. Spencer@... http://www.spencerserolls.com (425) 791-0309
-- Best regards, Spencer Chase 67550-Bell Springs Rd. Garberville, CA 95542 Postal service only. Laytonville, CA 95454 UPS only. Spencer@... http://www.spencerserolls.com (425) 791-0309
2014-12-11 by clays91740@...
OK, Thanks! In a message dated 12/11/2014 5:59:38 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, disklavier@yahoogroups.com writes: the cleanup people (Servicemaster) told me that every fire is different in terms of whether damaging fumes will or will not condense in any particular location. hopefully you just have soot that can be wiped away. if mechanical cleaning of surfaces eliminates any residual odor, you are probably in good condition. you can test for residue by putting the cleaned object in a bag or covering it with thin plastic sheeting. if after sitting covered for a day it does not stink, there is not likely to be residue remaining. do you have replacement cost insurance? if so, see what the insurance company will give you. On 12/11/2014 2:52 PM, _clays91740@..._ (mailto:clays91740@aol.com) [disklavier] wrote: It was an electrical fire that destroyed a 42-inch flat screen tv and many old video tapes. there was lots of smoke; the piano was in another room about 25 feet away and it is covered with heavy black, stinky soot. I will look inside it tomorrow. Thanks In a message dated 12/11/2014 5:40:06 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, _disklavier@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:disklavier@yahoogroups.com) writes: i do not know your piano specifically but every solenoid piano i have ever seen does have some circuitry in the piano. i did not mention in my first post that there is a wide range of possible damage from minor annoying odor to serious corrosion and electronic damage. it all depends on how much smoke there was, what was in the smoke and how far it got into the piano. what kind of fire was it, how severe, how close to the piano etc? the fire i had burnd some plastic which can create very corrosive and toxic deposits on and in everything exposed. On 12/11/2014 12:50 PM, _clays91740@aol.com_ (mailto:clays91740@...) [disklavier] wrote: Dear Spencer, Thank you for taking your time to provide me with so much excellent information. Are there circuit boards inside the piano itself as well as the wagon and DSR-1? Clay In a message dated 12/11/2014 11:51:36 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, _disklavier@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:disklavier@yahoogroups.com) writes: i have not had experience with a piano in a house fire but did have a workshop fire and a lot of equipment exposed to smoke that has similarities to the stuff in an electronically controlled piano. not much burned in the fire, but there was a little plastic that did burn . it made stinky soot that covered everything. Servicemaster cleaned everything but i had to do the electronics. i had a cnc milling machine and other stuff that insurance would not pay much for so i took all the electronics apart and cleaned that stuff myself. i doubt that anyone other than a very expensive "professional;" would have taken the care to do it right. everything still works. there are smoke stains on somw metal parts that are impossible to remove and wood stuff fared even worse. A DKV will have all the aspects of the worst stuff to try to save in my workshop and i think you will not be happy with the results which will probably cost a fortune. probably better to scrap it if you can convince the insurance company to pay much of anything for it. get some advise as to how to deal with the insurance company. most likely they will depreciate a 1992 piano to almost nothing. if you have an actual replacement cost policy you may do well but there are all sorts of exclusions and the company will likely to try their best to avoid paying much. if you are going to try to save the piano yourself, at minimum you would need to examine all circuit boards and clean them. except for certain components that may hold water forever, you can actually wash most of this stuff in appropriate detergeants as long as you do not connect power to anything until you know it is completely dry. i have a vacuum oven so i could dry slowly under vacuum. all connectors including socketed chips should be removed and lubricated with a contact cleaner/lube that contains polphenyl ether. felt parts might have to be replaced. wooden cabinet parts can probably be cleaned well enough, without damage that they won't smell too much. action parts are going to be hopeless if they got much of a dose of smoke. wound strings could probably be cleaned but replacement is probably a better option. ozone does an amazing job of neutralizing smoke odors. a "professional" would tent the piano and apply ozone for hours or days as needed. as more smoke odor comes out of wooden and other porous parts this will need to be repeated. i elected to not have the drywall and insulation removed and replaced in my workshop and 2 years later there is still a lingering smell. i made an ozone generator (really easy, you can find plans online) and run it occasionally if the smoke odor is especially bad. just a few hours helps. ozone is very corrosive to metal parts especially steel and iron so you have to limit its use. there are also miracle products that "neutralize" odors and some are very effective but they leave their own very strong odor for a while. i like XO which is a little difficult to find but Amazon probably has it. Vets use it to neutralize anal sac contents when they squeeze your dog's sacs so it can neutralize anything :) On 12/11/2014 6:39 AM, _clays91740@..._ (mailto:clays91740@...) [disklavier] wrote: Hello Group, My DG-1 (wagon grand) and DSR-1 were exposed to very heavy smoke and soot in a fire at my home. I'm not sure if it still works or not. I'm wondering if any one on the list has had any experience with any like this. I purchased the piano new in 1992 and really want to keep it. I appreciate any information available. Clay Shelton Petersburg, VA -- Best regards, Spencer Chase 67550-Bell Springs Rd. Garberville, CA 95542 Postal service only. Laytonville, CA 95454 UPS only. _Spencer@..._ (mailto:Spencer@...) _http://www.spencerserolls.com_ (http://www.spencerserolls.com/) (425) 791-0309 -- Best regards, Spencer Chase 67550-Bell Springs Rd. Garberville, CA 95542 Postal service only. Laytonville, CA 95454 UPS only. _Spencer@..._ (mailto:Spencer@...) _http://www.spencerserolls.com_ (http://www.spencerserolls.com/) (425) 791-0309 -- Best regards, Spencer Chase 67550-Bell Springs Rd. Garberville, CA 95542 Postal service only. Laytonville, CA 95454 UPS only. _Spencer@..._ (mailto:Spencer@...) _http://www.spencerserolls.com_ (http://www.spencerserolls.com/) (425) 791-0309
2014-12-12 by Carol Beigel
Fires and pianos don’t mix well. The damage often appears years later; i.e. the buckskin in the action parts gets hard; glue joints break, pin blocks separate and God only knows what time has been taken away from those heat sensitive electronics! My advice to insurance companies is that the longevity of the useful life of the piano when purchased new has been compromised and that a replacement is in order. Assuming the piano would have had a useful life of 50 years so half of its life had already expired. The electronics alone were worth $7000 when new. If the piano is insured, you are owed money. Perhaps get a used one on eBay or something. It would be nice if you could collect the insurance settlement as well as keep the piano. You could clean it up and see if or how long it works. I am sorry about the fire damage to your home. Carol Beigel Registered Piano Technician
> On Dec 11, 2014, at 9:39 AM, clays91740@... [disklavier] <disklavier@yahoogroups.com> wrote: > > > > Hello Group, > > My DG-1 (wagon grand) and DSR-1 were exposed to very heavy smoke and soot in a fire at my home. I'm not sure if it still works or not. I'm wondering if any one on the list has had any experience with any like this. > > I purchased the piano new in 1992 and really want to keep it. I appreciate any information available. > > Clay Shelton > Petersburg, VA > > >
2014-12-12 by Spencer Chase
Fires and pianos don’t mix well. The damage often appears years later; i.e. the buckskin in the action parts gets hard; glue joints break, pin blocks separate and God only knows what time has been taken away from those heat sensitive electronics! My advice to insurance companies is that the longevity of the useful life of the piano when purchased new has been compromised and that a replacement is in order. Assuming the piano would have had a useful life of 50 years so half of its life had already expired. The electronics alone were worth $7000 when new. If the piano is insured, you are owed money. Perhaps get a used one on eBay or something. It would be nice if you could collect the insurance settlement as well as keep the piano. You could clean it up and see if or how long it works. I am sorry about the fire damage to your home.
Carol BeigelRegistered Piano Technician
On Dec 11, 2014, at 9:39 AM, clays91740@... [disklavier] <disklavier@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
Hello Group,My DG-1 (wagon grand) and DSR-1 were exposed to very heavy smoke and soot in a fire at my home. I'm not sure if it still works or not. I'm wondering if any one on the list has had any experience with any like this.I purchased the piano new in 1992 and really want to keep it. I appreciate any information available.Clay SheltonPetersburg, VA
-- Best regards, Spencer Chase 67550-Bell Springs Rd. Garberville, CA 95542 Postal service only. Laytonville, CA 95454 UPS only. Spencer@... http://www.spencerserolls.com (425) 791-0309
2014-12-12 by clays91740@...
Many thanks to both of you. You have given me good advice. I will let you know what happens when the adjuster evaluates the piano. In a message dated 12/12/2014 11:34:10 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, disklavier@yahoogroups.com writes: since the amount of penetration in to the piano soft parts can vary greatly it might be good to test some hammers, for example, by bagging them and seeing how much they stink when you open the bag. if they do stink pretty badly you can be pretty sure that they contain corrosive residue that will compromise everything porous in the piano over time as Carol suggests. type of material that burned to create the smoke, temperature of fire, proximity to the piano, temperature of piano, and then the most vague, convection patters of the smoke in the fire all work together to determine if the piano might have absorbed a lethal dose. the electronics are cleanable and should be cleaned it they did get a big does but since the piano would be doomed anyway it would probably not be worth the cost to have it done professionally. On 12/11/2014 7:07 PM, Carol Beigel _carol@..._ (mailto:carol@...) [disklavier] wrote: Fires and pianos don’t mix well. The damage often appears years later; i.e. the buckskin in the action parts gets hard; glue joints break, pin blocks separate and God only knows what time has been taken away from those heat sensitive electronics! My advice to insurance companies is that the longevity of the useful life of the piano when purchased new has been compromised and that a replacement is in order. Assuming the piano would have had a useful life of 50 years so half of its life had already expired. The electronics alone were worth $7000 when new. If the piano is insured, you are owed money. Perhaps get a used one on eBay or something. It would be nice if you could collect the insurance settlement as well as keep the piano. You could clean it up and see if or how long it works. I am sorry about the fire damage to your home. Carol Beigel Registered Piano Technician On Dec 11, 2014, at 9:39 AM, _clays91740@..._ (mailto:clays91740@...) [disklavier] <_disklavier@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:disklavier@yahoogroups.com) > wrote: Hello Group, My DG-1 (wagon grand) and DSR-1 were exposed to very heavy smoke and soot in a fire at my home. I'm not sure if it still works or not. I'm wondering if any one on the list has had any experience with any like this. I purchased the piano new in 1992 and really want to keep it. I appreciate any information available. Clay Shelton Petersburg, VA -- Best regards, Spencer Chase 67550-Bell Springs Rd. Garberville, CA 95542 Postal service only. Laytonville, CA 95454 UPS only. _Spencer@spencerserolls.com_ (mailto:Spencer@...) _http://www.spencerserolls.com_ (http://www.spencerserolls.com/) (425) 791-0309
2014-12-12 by James Fry
Many thanks to both of you. You have given me good advice. I will let you know what happens when the adjuster evaluates the piano.In a message dated 12/12/2014 11:34:10 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, disklavier@yahoogroups.com writes:since the amount of penetration in to the piano soft parts can vary greatly it might be good to test some hammers, for example, by bagging them and seeing how much they stink when you open the bag. if they do stink pretty badly you can be pretty sure that they contain corrosive residue that will compromise everything porous in the piano over time as Carol suggests.
type of material that burned to create the smoke, temperature of fire, proximity to the piano, temperature of piano, and then the most vague, convection patters of the smoke in the fire all work together to determine if the piano might have absorbed a lethal dose.
the electronics are cleanable and should be cleaned it they did get a big does but since the piano would be doomed anyway it would probably not be worth the cost to have it done professionally.
On 12/11/2014 7:07 PM, Carol Beigel carol@... [disklavier] wrote:Fires and pianos don’t mix well. The damage often appears years later; i.e. the buckskin in the action parts gets hard; glue joints break, pin blocks separate and God only knows what time has been taken away from those heat sensitive electronics! My advice to insurance companies is that the longevity of the useful life of the piano when purchased new has been compromised and that a replacement is in order. Assuming the piano would have had a useful life of 50 years so half of its life had already expired. The electronics alone were worth $7000 when new. If the piano is insured, you are owed money. Perhaps get a used one on eBay or something. It would be nice if you could collect the insurance settlement as well as keep the piano. You could clean it up and see if or how long it works. I am sorry about the fire damage to your home.
Carol BeigelRegistered Piano Technician
On Dec 11, 2014, at 9:39 AM, clays91740@... [disklavier] <disklavier@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
Hello Group,My DG-1 (wagon grand) and DSR-1 were exposed to very heavy smoke and soot in a fire at my home. I'm not sure if it still works or not. I'm wondering if any one on the list has had any experience with any like this.I purchased the piano new in 1992 and really want to keep it. I appreciate any information available.Clay SheltonPetersburg, VA-- Best regards, Spencer Chase 67550-Bell Springs Rd. Garberville, CA 95542 Postal service only. Laytonville, CA 95454 UPS only. Spencer@... http://www.spencerserolls.com (425) 791-0309
2014-12-13 by clays91740@...
Thanks! I will have a piano technician evaluate it before I accept any settlement from the adjuster, In a message dated 12/12/2014 4:56:29 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, disklavier@yahoogroups.com writes: Sorry to hear about your fire and the potential damage to your instrument. I think I would quiz the loss adjuster on his knowledge of pianos before he sees the instrument. If he doesn't understand what a renner action is, the many points that have perishable parts in the action (felt, leather, even the wood), the important of the pinblock, materials used in the strings etc and you don't get a favourable response from the insurance company you should be on good grounds to demand they send an adjuster that understands pianos or adjust their figures to your benefit. On 12 December 2014 at 17:44, _clays91740@..._ (mailto:clays91740@...) [disklavier] <_disklavier@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:disklavier@yahoogroups.com) > wrote: Many thanks to both of you. You have given me good advice. I will let you know what happens when the adjuster evaluates the piano. In a message dated 12/12/2014 11:34:10 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, _disklavier@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:disklavier@yahoogroups.com) writes: since the amount of penetration in to the piano soft parts can vary greatly it might be good to test some hammers, for example, by bagging them and seeing how much they stink when you open the bag. if they do stink pretty badly you can be pretty sure that they contain corrosive residue that will compromise everything porous in the piano over time as Carol suggests. type of material that burned to create the smoke, temperature of fire, proximity to the piano, temperature of piano, and then the most vague, convection patters of the smoke in the fire all work together to determine if the piano might have absorbed a lethal dose. the electronics are cleanable and should be cleaned it they did get a big does but since the piano would be doomed anyway it would probably not be worth the cost to have it done professionally. On 12/11/2014 7:07 PM, Carol Beigel _carol@carolrpt.com_ (mailto:carol@...) [disklavier] wrote: Fires and pianos don’t mix well. The damage often appears years later; i.e. the buckskin in the action parts gets hard; glue joints break, pin blocks separate and God only knows what time has been taken away from those heat sensitive electronics! My advice to insurance companies is that the longevity of the useful life of the piano when purchased new has been compromised and that a replacement is in order. Assuming the piano would have had a useful life of 50 years so half of its life had already expired. The electronics alone were worth $7000 when new. If the piano is insured, you are owed money. Perhaps get a used one on eBay or something. It would be nice if you could collect the insurance settlement as well as keep the piano. You could clean it up and see if or how long it works. I am sorry about the fire damage to your home. Carol Beigel Registered Piano Technician On Dec 11, 2014, at 9:39 AM, _clays91740@..._ (mailto:clays91740@...) [disklavier] <_disklavier@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:disklavier@yahoogroups.com) > wrote: Hello Group, My DG-1 (wagon grand) and DSR-1 were exposed to very heavy smoke and soot in a fire at my home. I'm not sure if it still works or not. I'm wondering if any one on the list has had any experience with any like this. I purchased the piano new in 1992 and really want to keep it. I appreciate any information available. Clay Shelton Petersburg, VA -- Best regards, Spencer Chase 67550-Bell Springs Rd. Garberville, CA 95542 Postal service only. Laytonville, CA 95454 UPS only. _Spencer@..._ (mailto:Spencer@...) _http://www.spencerserolls.com_ (http://www.spencerserolls.com/) _(425) 791-0309_ (tel:(425)%20791-0309)
2014-12-13 by Peter maher
Hi, My own experience of adjusters is that they work for the insurance company and therefore, try to drive the amount of payout down! Maybe best to have your own guy who works for you! Good luck, Peter. Sent from my iPad
> On 13 Dec 2014, at 01:22, clays91740@... [disklavier] <disklavier@yahoogroups.com> wrote: > > Thanks! I will have a piano technician evaluate it before I accept any settlement from the adjuster, > > In a message dated 12/12/2014 4:56:29 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, disklavier@yahoogroups.com writes: > > Sorry to hear about your fire and the potential damage to your instrument. > > I think I would quiz the loss adjuster on his knowledge of pianos before he sees the instrument. If he doesn't understand what a renner action is, the many points that have perishable parts in the action (felt, leather, even the wood), the important of the pinblock, materials used in the strings etc and you don't get a favourable response from the insurance company you should be on good grounds to demand they send an adjuster that understands pianos or adjust their figures to your benefit. > > > >> On 12 December 2014 at 17:44, clays91740@... [disklavier] <disklavier@yahoogroups.com> wrote: >> >> >> Many thanks to both of you. You have given me good advice. I will let you know what happens when the adjuster evaluates the piano. >> >> >> >> In a message dated 12/12/2014 11:34:10 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, disklavier@yahoogroups.com writes: >> >> since the amount of penetration in to the piano soft parts can vary greatly it might be good to test some hammers, for example, by bagging them and seeing how much they stink when you open the bag. if they do stink pretty badly you can be pretty sure that they contain corrosive residue that will compromise everything porous in the piano over time as Carol suggests. >> >> type of material that burned to create the smoke, temperature of fire, proximity to the piano, temperature of piano, and then the most vague, convection patters of the smoke in the fire all work together to determine if the piano might have absorbed a lethal dose. >> >> the electronics are cleanable and should be cleaned it they did get a big does but since the piano would be doomed anyway it would probably not be worth the cost to have it done professionally. >> >> >>> On 12/11/2014 7:07 PM, Carol Beigel carol@... [disklavier] wrote: >>> >>> Fires and pianos don’t mix well. The damage often appears years later; i.e. the buckskin in the action parts gets hard; glue joints break, pin blocks separate and God only knows what time has been taken away from those heat sensitive electronics! My advice to insurance companies is that the longevity of the useful life of the piano when purchased new has been compromised and that a replacement is in order. Assuming the piano would have had a useful life of 50 years so half of its life had already expired. The electronics alone were worth $7000 when new. If the piano is insured, you are owed money. Perhaps get a used one on eBay or something. It would be nice if you could collect the insurance settlement as well as keep the piano. You could clean it up and see if or how long it works. I am sorry about the fire damage to your home. >>> >>> >>> Carol Beigel >>> Registered Piano Technician >>> >>> >>>> On Dec 11, 2014, at 9:39 AM, clays91740@... [disklavier] <disklavier@yahoogroups.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Hello Group, >>>> >>>> My DG-1 (wagon grand) and DSR-1 were exposed to very heavy smoke and soot in a fire at my home. I'm not sure if it still works or not. I'm wondering if any one on the list has had any experience with any like this. >>>> >>>> I purchased the piano new in 1992 and really want to keep it. I appreciate any information available. >>>> >>>> Clay Shelton >>>> Petersburg, VA >> >> -- >> >> Best regards, Spencer Chase >> 67550-Bell Springs Rd. >> Garberville, CA 95542 Postal service only. >> Laytonville, CA 95454 UPS only. >> Spencer@... >> http://www.spencerserolls.com >> (425) 791-0309 > >
2014-12-13 by Jeff Joseph
It’s also worthwhile to request a full copy of your policy. Insurers usually send you a digest version that leaves out some important specifics. It is to your benefit to have an expert opinion, preferably one who has been previously accepted as an expert witness qualified to testify as to the state of your piano. The job of the insurance company is to put you back in the position you were in prior to the loss. What that means is subject to interpretation. Jeff
> On Dec 13, 2014, at 6:18 AM, Peter maher peter.maher35@... [disklavier] <disklavier@yahoogroups.com> wrote: > > > Hi, > > My own experience of adjusters is that they work for the insurance company and therefore, try to drive the amount of payout down! > Maybe best to have your own guy who works for you! > > Good luck, > > Peter. > > > > Sent from my iPad > > On 13 Dec 2014, at 01:22, clays91740@aol.com <mailto:clays91740@...> [disklavier] <disklavier@yahoogroups.com <mailto:disklavier@yahoogroups.com>> wrote: > >> >> >> Thanks! I will have a piano technician evaluate it before I accept any settlement from the adjuster, >> >> In a message dated 12/12/2014 4:56:29 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, disklavier@yahoogroups.com <mailto:disklavier@yahoogroups.com> writes: >> >> >> Sorry to hear about your fire and the potential damage to your instrument. >> >> I think I would quiz the loss adjuster on his knowledge of pianos before he sees the instrument. If he doesn't understand what a renner action is, the many points that have perishable parts in the action (felt, leather, even the wood), the important of the pinblock, materials used in the strings etc and you don't get a favourable response from the insurance company you should be on good grounds to demand they send an adjuster that understands pianos or adjust their figures to your benefit. >> >> >> >> On 12 December 2014 at 17:44, clays91740@... <mailto:clays91740@...> [disklavier] <disklavier@yahoogroups.com <mailto:disklavier@yahoogroups.com>> wrote: >> >> >> Many thanks to both of you. You have given me good advice. I will let you know what happens when the adjuster evaluates the piano. >> >> >> >> In a message dated 12/12/2014 11:34:10 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, disklavier@yahoogroups.com <mailto:disklavier@yahoogroups.com> writes: >> >> since the amount of penetration in to the piano soft parts can vary greatly it might be good to test some hammers, for example, by bagging them and seeing how much they stink when you open the bag. if they do stink pretty badly you can be pretty sure that they contain corrosive residue that will compromise everything porous in the piano over time as Carol suggests. >> >> type of material that burned to create the smoke, temperature of fire, proximity to the piano, temperature of piano, and then the most vague, convection patters of the smoke in the fire all work together to determine if the piano might have absorbed a lethal dose. >> >> the electronics are cleanable and should be cleaned it they did get a big does but since the piano would be doomed anyway it would probably not be worth the cost to have it done professionally. >> >> >> On 12/11/2014 7:07 PM, Carol Beigel carol@... <mailto:carol@...> [disklavier] wrote: >>> >>> Fires and pianos don’t mix well. The damage often appears years later; i.e. the buckskin in the action parts gets hard; glue joints break, pin blocks separate and God only knows what time has been taken away from those heat sensitive electronics! My advice to insurance companies is that the longevity of the useful life of the piano when purchased new has been compromised and that a replacement is in order. Assuming the piano would have had a useful life of 50 years so half of its life had already expired. The electronics alone were worth $7000 when new. If the piano is insured, you are owed money. Perhaps get a used one on eBay or something. It would be nice if you could collect the insurance settlement as well as keep the piano. You could clean it up and see if or how long it works. I am sorry about the fire damage to your home. >>> >>> >>> Carol Beigel >>> Registered Piano Technician >>> >>> >>>> On Dec 11, 2014, at 9:39 AM, clays91740@... <mailto:clays91740@...> [disklavier] <disklavier@yahoogroups.com <mailto:disklavier@yahoogroups.com>> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Hello Group, >>>> >>>> My DG-1 (wagon grand) and DSR-1 were exposed to very heavy smoke and soot in a fire at my home. I'm not sure if it still works or not. I'm wondering if any one on the list has had any experience with any like this. >>>> >>>> I purchased the piano new in 1992 and really want to keep it. I appreciate any information available. >>>> >>>> Clay Shelton >>>> Petersburg, VA >>>> >>>> >>> >> >> -- >> >> Best regards, Spencer Chase >> 67550-Bell Springs Rd. >> Garberville, CA 95542 Postal service only. >> Laytonville, CA 95454 UPS only. >> Spencer@... <mailto:Spencer@...> >> http://www.spencerserolls.com <http://www.spencerserolls.com/> >> (425) 791-0309 <tel:%28425%29%20791-0309> >> >> >> >> >> >> > >