Datacolor User to User Support Group.

Hello everyone,

I recently purchased the Spyder3 Studio suite, graduating from the old i1 Display (yes, the 
first one), and getting myself into the world of printer profiling as well. I've been working 
on making a profile of Crane Museo Silver Rag on my Epson 2200, and while I've finally 
gotten a profile that's pretty good (after burning through an entire box), it's giving me 
some odd banding in color gradients, especially in greens and cyans. I know it's not the 
printer misfiring, as the same banding shows up in my soft proof display as well. That 
banding does not show up using the OEM profile from Crane.

I've redone the profile several times; I've reprinted the patches, remeasured, and I've even 
tried using the 729 patch monster as well, but the banding still persists (although the 729 
profile doesn't show it quite as much as the others). I've got a screenshot of the soft proof 
for reference here:

http://www.designoland.net/stuff/banding.png

For reference, I printed the patches at 1440 resolution, no color adjustment, non-high 
speed, default ink density, and using the suggested Premium Luster setting in the Epson 
driver. I did try the media settings tests for all of the other possibilities while PK was 
loaded, and didn't see reason to go with one of those (although, honestly, I'm not quite 
sure what I'm looking for).

Might anyone have any suggestions about what to try in order to resolve this, or is it one 
of those "it's as good as it's going to get" things? 

Thank you in advance, and best regards,
Jeff

On Nov 7, 2008, at 7:59 PM, dirkjellooo wrote:

> Hello everyone,
>
> I recently purchased the Spyder3 Studio suite, graduating from the  
> old i1 Display (yes, the
> first one), and getting myself into the world of printer profiling  
> as well. I've been working
> on making a profile of Crane Museo Silver Rag on my Epson 2200, and  
> while I've finally
> gotten a profile that's pretty good (after burning through an entire  
> box), it's giving me
> some odd banding in color gradients, especially in greens and cyans.  
> I know it's not the
> printer misfiring, as the same banding shows up in my soft proof  
> display as well. That
> banding does not show up using the OEM profile from Crane.
>
> I've redone the profile several times; I've reprinted the patches,  
> remeasured, and I've even
> tried using the 729 patch monster as well, but the banding still  
> persists (although the 729
> profile doesn't show it quite as much as the others). I've got a  
> screenshot of the soft proof
> for reference here:
>
> http://www.designoland.net/stuff/banding.png
>
> For reference, I printed the patches at 1440 resolution, no color  
> adjustment, non-high
> speed, default ink density, and using the suggested Premium Luster  
> setting in the Epson
> driver. I did try the media settings tests for all of the other  
> possibilities while PK was
> loaded, and didn't see reason to go with one of those (although,  
> honestly, I'm not quite
> sure what I'm looking for).
>
> Might anyone have any suggestions about what to try in order to  
> resolve this, or is it one
> of those "it's as good as it's going to get" things?
>
> Thank you in advance, and best regards,
> Jeff
>


I think your problem here is in expecting to see perfectly smooth  
gradients
when you print through an image like this.

Color gradients are unlikely to print with perfect smoothness; this is  
true of what you
can expect from all 3rd party printer profiling software, not just  
ours. Some OEM profiles
may be additionally optimized for printing smooth color gradients like  
that, but to do that,
they will typically use fewer data points and then do some smoothing  
on the data afterwards;
it can result in better looking gradients, but overall, the profile  
may also be technically
less "accurate", more likely to have small color casts and crossovers,  
grays that are less
neutral and tinted differently in places, etc. It comes down to a  
tradeoff; more patches
and a profiling mechanism that "pushes" the gamut limits of the  
printer harder as we do (to
give you darker blacks, better shadow detail, better saturation and  
more overall accuracy)
will also tend to produce gradients that may be a bit less smooth in  
places.


David Miller
Senior Software Developer, Digital Color Solutions
Datacolor

David,

Thanks for your quick response and your insight. You're absolutely right, I did expect 
smooth gradients. But in truth, I didn't take into account other factors like the ones that 
you mentioned, and those make sense (I'm working my way through Real World Color 
Management as well right now). 

As far as printed photographic material goes, I *do* see improvement over the Crane-
supplied profile, and that's what matters most! I guess I need to be reminded of that from 
time to time (how many gradients will I really print, after all?) :) 

Thanks again, and best wishes,
Jeff


--- In colorvision_group@yahoogroups.com, David Miller <dm2363@...> wrote:

> I think your problem here is in expecting to see perfectly smooth  
> gradients
> when you print through an image like this.
> 
> Color gradients are unlikely to print with perfect smoothness; this is  
> true of what you
> can expect from all 3rd party printer profiling software, not just  
> ours. Some OEM profiles
> may be additionally optimized for printing smooth color gradients like  
> that, but to do that,
> they will typically use fewer data points and then do some smoothing  
> on the data afterwards;
> it can result in better looking gradients, but overall, the profile  
> may also be technically
> less "accurate", more likely to have small color casts and crossovers,  
> grays that are less
> neutral and tinted differently in places, etc. It comes down to a  
> tradeoff; more patches
> and a profiling mechanism that "pushes" the gamut limits of the  
> printer harder as we do (to
> give you darker blacks, better shadow detail, better saturation and  
> more overall accuracy)
> will also tend to produce gradients that may be a bit less smooth in  
> places.
> 
> 
> David Miller
> Senior Software Developer, Digital Color Solutions
> Datacolor
>