In a message dated 5/4/08 12:04:04 PM, laurie@... writes:
>
> .> But if its simply sRGB, then its not a "real" display profile (it lacks
> video card corrections etc) and the warning is simply telling you this.
>
> C. David, I think I know what you mean and are saying here; but in case I
> don’t, could you elaborate for me and anyone else who may not understand what
> it is you are saying with respect to this not being a “real” display
> profile.
>
> What I think you are suggesting is that the sRGB profile in that folder is
> not an actual device profile but rather a working space profile, similar to
> what Adobe RGB 1998 originally was with respect to the Photoshop editing
> space. It does not characterize a device’s color space per se but defines the
> default color space that the user is working in on the desktop when one is
> utilizing image editing programs and other applications that do not support color
> management and profiles. Am I on base here or way off base?
>
Correct...
>
> That Vista views it as the default working color space and, thus, a system
> file may mean that it cannot be deleted without engaging in a whole lot of
> work-arounds to do so; but as you and I have both pointed out, it does not mean
> that one cannot disassociate that file from any associations with devices
> such as monitors and printers. It also does not preclude associating other
> listed profiles – appropriate or not – with particular devices at the Vista OS
> level and even establishing them as the default device profile.
>
Also correct. But there is the possibility that do to Windows being... shall
I politely say a bit confused... then the user's custom display profiles may
not be getting properly associated with the display, in which case sRGB may be
coming up again and again as the display profile, meaning the user may have to
manually associate the Spyder-built profile, and assign it as default.
Removing or unassociating sRGB probably is unnecessary at that point...
>
> To extend this a little, I think that part of the trouble here is that the
> software developers and publishers have created some confusion by initially
> speaking of and using distinctions between working color space profiles and
> designations, on the one hand, and device color spaces and color profiles, on
> the other hand, (sRGB and Adobe RGB 1998 among them)
>
Plenty of confusion in color management, lots of blame to spread around, but
yes, this is true...
> while later using these same working color space ( or editing space)
> profiles as actual device profiles and profile names in devices like scanners,
> cameras, etc. as well as in software such as Photoshop, Lightroom, Elements,
> Microsoft Digital Suite, etc.
>
Well, not always the same people, or even the same companies doing this, and
they had good excuses even when they do. But Datacolor products are expecting
custom display profiles, complete with video corrections, as that is what they
deal in, and put out a warning when that is not what they find. Other display
calibration software tends to do the same.
> Now whenever users see sRGB or Adobe RGB, they assume that these are
> referring to device profiles on all occasions.
>
Users certainly are not clear on what a workingspace profile is, and what it
should be applied to. Since sRGB is applied to digital camera files, pretty
much everything from the web, displays, and even in some cases printers, it can
certainly get confusing. The sRGB consortium gets most of the credit for this
simplifying process, and the confusion that can come with it. That consortium
was mainly HP and Microsoft, and disappeared when Microsoft started ramping up
for Windows Color System and Vista. As it turns out (and as you and I have
discussed multiple times) the result of WCS under Vista is largely a reversion
to "assume sRGB" and so we are back more or less where we started. Not that
Apple has done much better; "assume the display profile" is their default and not
quite as useful, for most purposes as "assume sRGB". The only solution that
gets beyond these issues is custom profiles, and that requires knowledgable
users.
> Similarly, discussions of color management have become so pervasive that
> many beginners and lay persons assume that all applications involved in
> capturing, editing, and/or outputting as display or print inages will and do
> support color management and the use of profiles when in fact this may not be the
> case.
>
> This ios one of the reasons why I guess I am pushihg you for an
> elaboration.
>
Well, to get "platform political" for one more minute: most applications of
concequence on the Mac ARE color managed, so those working in graphic design
and professional photography are likely to be immersed in a world where even the
free applications that come with their computer or OS are color correct; even
web browsers. On the other hand, there are few applications under Windows
that have color management that are not part of the Adobe Suite, or a few other
high end graphics providers. Even Window's leading browser is not color
managed. So whether you sing "Color My World" in the present tense or not is largely
an OS issue.
Oh, and to get off topic for another minute: I pledged to post Richard
Wolfson stories whenever they came to mind this year (in rememberance of a great
advocate of photography and digital printing), and that brings up one I hadn't
thought of in years. Richard and I were shooting in Acadia National Park, a few
hundred miles from where I live, so certainly not in my usual social circle.
It was early summer, and no one eats dinner outside until after the Fourth of
July in Maine, so we were pleased to find a restaurant with outdoor tables
open. We had a waitress pretty much to ourselves out there, and after listening to
us for a few minutes, she made a suprised shreak, leapt into my lap, and gave
me a big kiss on the lips. Richard looked very confused, like he was
wondering if he was next. She then exclaimed "you were my first slow dance in seventh
grade!" I thought about that and asked "Hey Jude?" "No, Color My World" was
her reply. After she took our orders and left, Richard commented about it
having made him feel really old; not because waitresses didn't jump in his lap any
more, but because he was WAY older than seventh grade when Hey Jude came out.
But he did insist on leaving a generous tip...
C. David Tobie
WW Product Technology Manager
Digital Imaging & Home Theater
Datacolor
CDTobie@...
www.datacolor.com/Spyder3
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