Datacolor User to User Support Group.

No, don't ignore the gamut warning and expect the profile to do all  
the work, and do it exactly as you would like it done;  
instead(especially for saturated colors, as opposed to dark ones) use  
the gamut warning to tell you, at least roughly, which colors to  
adjust, and bring these colors mostly into gamut yourself, to in-gamut  
versions that suit you. That's much of the value of a good profile; to  
allow this work. That type of adjustment is part of what makes an art  
print an art print; not just a print.

C. D. Tobie
WW Product Technology Mngr.
Digital Imaging & Home Theater
DataColor.com
CDTobie@...

On Sep 10, 2008, at 10:50 PM, "rickbehl" <rickbehl@...> wrote:

>
> Thanks CDTobie and David Miller for the extensive replies.
>
> So to summarise I guess I should not worry too much about the out of
> gamut warnings ? Would you recommend I take some action if I see this
> out of gamut warning or should I just let Photoshop and the Printer
> Driver figure out the best thing to do with these colours ?
>
> Thanks again ! I think I am slowly 'getting it' :-)
>
> Rgds
> Rick
>
> --- In colorvision_group@yahoogroups.com, David Miller <dm2363@...>  
> wrote:
>>
>>
>> On Sep 10, 2008, at 6:08 AM, rickbehl wrote:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> Please could someone help to answer a question.
>>>
>>> My setup is:
>>>
>>> Screen: Dell LCD 1703FP
>>> OS: Windows XP
>>> Screen Calibration: Spyder3 Elite - 2.2/6500k
>>> Printer: Epson 3800
>>> Printer Profiling Device: Spyder3 Print
>>> Paper: Epson Archival Matte Paper
>>> Inkset: Epson Ultrachrome (standard with this printer)
>>>
>>> I have built a printer profile for this printer/paper/ink  
>>> combination.
>>> In fact I built 3 profiles:
>>>
>>> 1) From the Expert + Grays target (4 sheets altogether) - Take
>>> measurements after 1 day drying time
>>> 2) From the Expert + Grays target (4 sheets altogether) - Take
>>> measurements after 2 days drying time
>>> 3) Average the two profiles above
>>>
>>> On all 3 profiles when I soft proof the image in Photoshop CS3 there
>>> are a lot of areas showing as gray (Out of Gamut) which do not  
>>> appear
>>> as such when I soft proof using the Epson canned profile (Pro38  
>>> ARMP).
>>>
>>> Noticeably these are in the darker areas: Dark blues, greens,
>>> blacks/greys, purples, browns. The colours which seem ok (in Gamut)
>>> are yellows, cyans and generally the lighter shades.
>>>
>>> If I print a test image (Using the Photodisc colour test image)  
>>> using
>>> the profiles, the colours are definitely better with the Spyder3
>>> profiles but I am concerned about why there are so many grey/Gamut
>>> warning areas on the soft-proof...
>>>
>>> Please could someone advise ?
>>>
>>>
>>
>> The real issue here is this: the out-of-gamut warning you're getting
>> with our profile is actually, -technically correct-. Here's why:
>>
>> You're profiling matte paper. The L values (lightness) for all of the
>> shadows on matte paper measure lighter than on glossy/luster. On  
>> matte
>> paper, measured L for black will be in the 15-22 range, usually in  
>> the
>> upper teens. On glossy/luster, measured L for black will be in the  
>> 3-7
>> range (but usually not more than 5).
>>
>> The out-of-gamut warning is telling you that shadow values, with  
>> their
>> darker L's, fall below the measured values for the printer gamut.
>> (And, in fact: they do!) If you were doing this with a profile built
>> from glossy/luster with much darker blacks, the gamut warning
>> would cover a much shallower area of the darkest shadows.
>>
>> There's nothing "wrong" with this. On matte paper, you simply cannot
>> prints black, and shadows, that cover the same range as glossy/luster
>> papers. The gamut warning is telling you this, and there is nothing
>> you can do... because it's physically impossible for you to print
>> darker on that printer, on matte paper.
>>
>> The fact that you're getting gamut warnings in the shadows doesn't
>> mean that there will be a problem with the print. You will be getting
>> the darkest blacks and shadows that the printer/paper/inkset can
>> give you, when you print; the gamut warning is just doing what
>> it's supposed to do: tell you that you're trying to print darker
>> blacks and shadows than the printer/paper/inkset can physically
>> produce.
>>
>> So: why don't you get a similar gamut warning with Epson profiles...?
>>
>> You should, but the Epson profiles are doing something different
>> with an internal table in the profiles (which has to do with how
>> the gamut warning is calculated) to "hide" the fact that these
>> shadows are actually outside the printer gamut for matte papers.
>> The gamut shape in the Epson profiles isn't any larger than
>> in a profile we've created for the same paper; in fact, our gamut
>> shape is likely to be a bit larger. If you use a utility like
>> Chromix ColorThink to compare the gamut shapes for a Spyder3Print
>> profile on Epson Enhanced Matte, vs. the Epson profile for the same
>> paper, you'll see that the gamut shapes are similar and that the
>> bottom tails both "float" above the L = 0 plane at pretty much the
>> same level.
>>
>> ***
>>
>> The shorter answer is: don't worry about this. We're actually
>> giving you a more accurate gamut warning than the Epson profiles;
>> the fact that those shadows are technically out of gamut doesn't
>> mean that there's anything wrong with the print. Your direct  
>> experience
>> is that the print is great... and in fact, better than what you
>> get from the Epson profiles.
>>
>>
>> David Miller
>> Senior Software Developer, Digital Color Solutions
>> Datacolor
>>
>
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