Bc2000 (for the BCF2000 & BCR2000)

Hi folks,

i've searched the messages in here and also the net for getting an answer to my problem, which is this:

I have a white BCF2000 (latest firmware installed) which i use in MCU mode on a WinXP SP3 PC using USB port (also latest behringer midi drivers installed).
The programm i use it with are Cubase 4.52 and Live 8.01.
Now here's my problem:

When i start up the BCF2000 and start Cubase 4 (with no project loaded) everything works fine (transport controls etc.) but when i open a project, cubase loads it and set's the faders on the bcf2000 to the current position of the first 8 channels in the mixer.
Then the bcf2000 "hangs up"...it doesn't respond anymore...you can hit every button without a reaction and the faders stay where they were.
You can even move the faders up/down and they will jump back to their initial position (from the project's loading).

This is quite disturbing and not even the wackiest part of my story....

The longer the BCF2000 is turned on (warmed up) the better is the chance that my described problems disappear (not entirely though).

But even when it's "warmed up" often the problems return in several ways:
Sometimes the bcf2000 hangs up when loading a new project or switching between applications (close cubase, open live etc.).
Also it seems to get a "buffer overflow" which results in heavy delays when communicating from cubase back to the bcf2000 (delayed, sluggish fader movements, led lights etc.)

I don't know what to do or what i'm doing wrong.

Btw. the bcf2000 is connected to a USB port which has it's own IRQ (not a shared one like all the others)

I hope some of you can help me or give me any hints which leads to solving this stupid problem.

CU

--- In bc2000@yahoogroups.com, "donqjuz" <donqjuz@...> wrote:
>
> Hi folks,
> 
> i've searched the messages in here and also the net for getting an answer to my problem, which is this:
> 
> I have a white BCF2000 (latest firmware installed) which i use in MCU mode on a WinXP SP3 PC using USB port (also latest behringer midi drivers installed).
> The programm i use it with are Cubase 4.52 and Live 8.01.
> Now here's my problem:
> 
> When i start up the BCF2000 and start Cubase 4 (with no project loaded) everything works fine (transport controls etc.) but when i open a project, cubase loads it and set's the faders on the bcf2000 to the current position of the first 8 channels in the mixer.
> Then the bcf2000 "hangs up"...it doesn't respond anymore...you can hit every button without a reaction and the faders stay where they were.
> You can even move the faders up/down and they will jump back to their initial position (from the project's loading).
> 
> This is quite disturbing and not even the wackiest part of my story....
> 
> The longer the BCF2000 is turned on (warmed up) the better is the chance that my described problems disappear (not entirely though).
> 
> But even when it's "warmed up" often the problems return in several ways:
> Sometimes the bcf2000 hangs up when loading a new project or switching between applications (close cubase, open live etc.).
> Also it seems to get a "buffer overflow" which results in heavy delays when communicating from cubase back to the bcf2000 (delayed, sluggish fader movements, led lights etc.)
> 
> I don't know what to do or what i'm doing wrong.
> 
> Btw. the bcf2000 is connected to a USB port which has it's own IRQ (not a shared one like all the others)
> 
> I hope some of you can help me or give me any hints which leads to solving this stupid problem.
> 
> CU
>
Back when I was using my BCF under XP, I had no luck with the USB driver.  I had to use MIDI cables to get it work properly.

Hi CU

> >
> Back when I was using my BCF under XP, I had no luck with the USB driver.  I had to use MIDI cables to get it work properly.
>

Try the Midi port first and if it still isn't fixed you might like to try this.

Quite often when a fault arises after a while or it fixes itself it can be due to the rise in temperature breaking/making contact on a plug or socket.

My guess is that the EEPROM inside the BC is a bit loose.

So if it is out of warranty and you are feeling game then I would open it up (I think there are some pictures in the files area to help).
Push down on the top of only chip in a socket (about half the size of a matchbox on the bottom case close to the back of the BC)

Push / wiggle any wired connectors on the inside of the BC while your at it.

Hope this helps

Royce

Hi, ...can´t tell this for sure but it´s possible that your usb board on the cpu is damaged.
So may try new Firmware update and check if the problem is gone then.

Cheers, 
Phil



--- In bc2000@yahoogroups.com, "donqjuz" <donqjuz@...> wrote:

>
> Hi folks,
> 
> i've searched the messages in here and also the net for getting an answer to my problem, which is this:
> 
> I have a white BCF2000 (latest firmware installed) which i use in MCU mode on a WinXP SP3 PC using USB port (also latest behringer midi drivers installed).
> The programm i use it with are Cubase 4.52 and Live 8.01.
> Now here's my problem:
> 
> When i start up the BCF2000 and start Cubase 4 (with no project loaded) everything works fine (transport controls etc.) but when i open a project, cubase loads it and set's the faders on the bcf2000 to the current position of the first 8 channels in the mixer.
> Then the bcf2000 "hangs up"...it doesn't respond anymore...you can hit every button without a reaction and the faders stay where they were.
> You can even move the faders up/down and they will jump back to their initial position (from the project's loading).
> 
> This is quite disturbing and not even the wackiest part of my story....
> 
> The longer the BCF2000 is turned on (warmed up) the better is the chance that my described problems disappear (not entirely though).
> 
> But even when it's "warmed up" often the problems return in several ways:
> Sometimes the bcf2000 hangs up when loading a new project or switching between applications (close cubase, open live etc.).
> Also it seems to get a "buffer overflow" which results in heavy delays when communicating from cubase back to the bcf2000 (delayed, sluggish fader movements, led lights etc.)
> 
> I don't know what to do or what i'm doing wrong.
> 
> Btw. the bcf2000 is connected to a USB port which has it's own IRQ (not a shared one like all the others)
> 
> I hope some of you can help me or give me any hints which leads to solving this stupid problem.
> 
> CU
>

THX for these nice hints...especially the hint from Royce (with the loose EEPROM) sounds pretty convincing.

But before i open up the BCF2000 i'm gonna try the hint from yeahtuna (use MIDI cables instead of USB) to see if it is the USB connection itself that is faulty.

@Phil:
What do you mean with:"...but it´s possible that your usb board on the cpu is damaged" ?
Do you mean the USB ports on the PC mainboard or the USB ports on the BCF2000 ?


I'll report back after i tested all these possibilities.
Also i'll try the BCF2000 on my laptop, although i'm pretty sure that i get the same results as on my studio machine.


CU

DonQ-Juz

--- In bc2000@yahoogroups.com, "donqjuz" <donqjuz@...> wrote:
> When i start up the BCF2000 and start Cubase 4 (with no project
> loaded) everything works fine (transport controls etc.) but when i
> open a project, cubase loads it and set's the faders on the bcf2000
> to the current position of the first 8 channels in the mixer. Then
> the bcf2000 "hangs up"...it doesn't respond anymore...you can hit
> every button without a reaction and the faders stay where they were. 
> You can even move the faders up/down and they will jump back to their
> initial position (from the project's loading).

You say that the BCF "doesn't respond anymore".
However, the BCF as such still functions in the sense that (as you say) it pushes its faders back whenever you move them. (And does the display still show "MC C"?)
So I think it's unlikely that there is anything wrong with the BCF's CPU, EEPROM or RAM, since the BCF's operating system runs in part from the EEPROM and in part from RAM.

So if there's anything wrong with the BCF itself, it is likely to be the USB controller (integrated in the CPU), as Phil suggested: several people in this forum have reported random losses of the USB connection due to this.
So trying a standard MIDI connection instead of a USB connection is indeed probably the first thing you should try.

However, re-flashing the firmware (as Phil suggested) won't help at all to fix the USB controller: whenever the BCF starts up, it checks its firmware via a checksum, so if you see "1.10" in the display during startup, the firmware is fine and re-flashing is totally pointless.

> This is quite disturbing and not even the wackiest part of my
> story....

The fact that the BCF seems to be unresponsive in MCU mode in itself is not disturbing at all: in this mode the BCF heavily leans on the computer program (Cubase or whatever) and the faders ALWAYS jump back if a connection to a program is missing.

So what you're experiencing just means that somehow the connection with Cubase (or Live) is lost.
The question is what causes this:

1. A hardware problem: probably a faulty USB controller in the BCF (as mentioned above).

2. A software problem related to the USB driver used under Windows.
Switching between applications can be tricky (concerning access to MIDI devices), but I somehow don't think that this is the cause, for one thing because the Behringer USB drivers for Windows XP are multi-client. (Are you using Behringer's vs. 1.2.1.3 USB driver?)

3. A software problem specifically related to the program(s) you're using.
However, since you're having problems with both Cubase and Live, this doesn't seem very likely. (Do you ever have problems in Live when you haven't used Cubase before?)
Does it ever happen that you "terminally" can't access the BCF any more (e.g. after a "lock-up" in Cubase)? When that happens, you might try starting up BC Manager and having it make contact with the BCF.
BC Manager is intended for the BCF in non-emulation mode, but even if the BCF IS in an emulation mode, BC Manager should be able to make "basic" contact and (e.g.) tell you WHICH emulation mode the BCF is in. If BC Manager CANNOT connect to the BCF after you've run into problems in Cubase, my guess is indeed that your BCF's USB controller is faulty.

Hope this helps,
Mark.

Hi Mark and everyone else, of course....THX for your help!!

I now had the time to check the BCF's USB controller and i assume that this crappy thing was my problem.
I connected the BCF via MIDI only (on my old Steinberg Midex-3) and BOOM!!....it now works as i always wished it would do.

Also i tried to connect to the BCF using the BC manager (while still in USB mode): 
The connection worked when the BCF was "fresh-started" but not after the BCF "hang-up" etc. While "hang-up" BC Manager only showed an error message complaining about a driver/device not found etc.
Maybe all these problems come from the Behringer MIDI Driver i use (v 1.2.1.3)......perhaps i should try their new driver called BEHRINGER_MIDI_WIN32_1.0.10.zip

It would be nice if i could use the USB connection with a working driver again, because all my ports on the Midex-3 USB MIDI interface are in use and are only temporally switched to the BCF.

I think i should try this driver just to be 100% sure that it is a faulty BCF USB controller and not a driver etc.

Has anyone ever tried this "new" Behringer MIDI driver i mentioned above?

Also i maybe need an additional USB MIDI interface. Can anyone recommend a good working one?

CU

DonQ-Juz

--- In bc2000@yahoogroups.com, "donqjuz" <donqjuz@...> wrote:
> I now had the time to check the BCF's USB controller and i assume that this crappy thing was my problem.
> I connected the BCF via MIDI only (on my old Steinberg Midex-3) and BOOM!!....it now works as i always wished it would do.
> 
> Also i tried to connect to the BCF using the BC manager (while still in USB mode): 
> The connection worked when the BCF was "fresh-started" but not after the BCF "hang-up" etc. While "hang-up" BC Manager only showed an error message complaining about a driver/device not found etc.

This proves that there's no problem with Cubase/Live as such: the USB connection is indeed lost.
And based on my own (very similar) experiences, my guess is that indeed the USB controller on the BCF itself is faulty.
If so, the question is whether you're still in the warranty period. If you are, you can probably get the BCF replaced at your dealer without much fuss. Otherwise all you can do is use the BCF via its standard MIDI connections.

> Maybe all these problems come from the Behringer MIDI Driver i use (v 1.2.1.3)......perhaps i should try their new driver called BEHRINGER_MIDI_WIN32_1.0.10.zip
> I think i should try this driver just to be 100% sure that it is a faulty BCF USB controller and not a driver etc.

You can always try, but as far as I know there's nothing wrong with Behringer's driver 1.2.1.3 (at least not in this respect).
When I had a BCR2000 with a faulty USB controller, I tried all the drivers available at the time (Behringer's 1.1.1.0, 1.1.1.1 and 1.2.1.3, and Microsoft's "USB Audio Device"), but it didn't make ANY difference. Since I have a new BCR2000, 1.2.1.3 has never given me any problems.

(In terms of device-naming Behringer's 1.2.1.3 is STILL the best. But it's hard to install on Vista, and - so I'm told - impossible on Windows 7, and it apparently doesn't work under 64-bit operating systems at all.)

Best wishes,
Mark.

Hi Mark..
Hmmm...i guess you're right with the "old" Behringer MIDI driver....i'm not doing the driver exchange for now. Since the simple "MIDI only" test showed me how fine the BCF can work, i think that i should just order a new USB MIDI interface.

I hope you or someone else can recommend one, that works fine on WinXP SP3 and together with the BCF.

CU

DonQ-Juz