Analogue-sequencer

hi people,
...just about every free minute is spent playing around with my p3. 
glad i don't have a girlfriend or kids...:) and i've managed to 
record a little thingy, made with the p3 driving my Quasimidi 309 on 
5 tracks and TG33 on one more, with a 707 running along for some hats 
& claps. have a listen...
http://aa6tem.23.i-lan.nl/oozi/oozi_biased.mp3 
it might be a bit on the long side but bear in mind that i'm 
preparing for a liveset in a months time and that i'm still pretty 
much in shock about the possiblities this box opens up. i'm hardly 
even tweaking! just having a great time turning tracks on & off and 
switching patterns (the global bar is soooo cool).

and, being the whiny gimme-perfect-tailor-made-gear-guy that i am, 
i've started a wish list for the p3. of course i have no idea if any 
of it's possible, but here goes all the same;

Things i'd like to see added to P3 functionality

- a way to quickly access the track mutes when in pattern- or 
playlist-edit mode.
- The possibility to save the `hold' setting in the playlist-edit 
menu, so you can start a pattern with a single pattern, and on 
releasing the `hold', the full playlist starts playing.
- When doing a `part copy' from the main menu page 3 while playing, 
the possibility to return to the original playlist(s) in the 
destination part.
- The possiblity to set the first step for a pattern as well the last 
step, without using the shift keys.
- The possibility to freely assign one of the available functions to 
each rows of pots.
- When doing a `part copy' from the main menu page 3 while playing, 
the possibility to select only some of the tracks playing at the time.
- The possibility to save different midi-channel settings with 
different banks.
- 16 tracks.. ;) 
- Something to do with the pots when in regular play-mode. :)


and i also think i found a bug, or at least a 'weirdy': when you have 
a 16 step pattern and you set the last step, step 16, to `skip', the 
playlist doesn't move beyond this pattern, whether the change-mode is 
set to pattern or bar.

that's all for now, folks!

--- In analogue-sequencer@yahoogroups.com, Paul Nagle <softroom@b...> 
wrote:
hi Paul,
have you always got this site open or something? such quick 
responses..;)
> >- a way to quickly access the track mutes when in pattern- or 
> >playlist-edit mode.
 
> It's quite quick to pop in and out of edit mode.  

i know, but when editting a pattern it'd be nice to be able to just 
mute some of the sounds without having to save the pattern first. 
when i'm doing a variation on a theme, for instance. i think it'd 
also be pretty cool when used live, for buildups 'n' stuff; f*ck up a 
sequence, mute the hats & snare, randomize the sequence some more, 
mute the kick, go totally nuts with the sequence and then bring 
everything back in combination with the new 'melody'.. it's not a 
problem, but it'd be nice to have.

> Well, you can save the playlist with length of 1then update the 
length while playing. Any use?

that's what i've been doing, but i've had a situation where i want 
step 3 of the playlist to hold, and then continue on from that at a 
later point. maybe something like the 'pattern-shift' function for 
the playlist would be interesting.
 
> Part copy copies things as they are to a new part. Playlists are per
> track so you can do your part copy then select new playlist lengths 
> as you wish. 

yes but this still means you've lost your original playlists in the 
destination part. i guess i'm talking about something like an 'undo' 
function, or an 'are you sure?' confirmation before the new set of 
playlists is permanently saved to the part. this is mainly as a 
failsafe for my own stupidity; i've lost some rather cool playlists 
this way. 

> >- The possiblity to set the first step for a pattern as well the   
> >last step, without using the shift keys.
> 
> You can do this with the Skip function. Simply skip as many steps as
> you want at the start of a pattern.

good tip! hadn't thought of that yet. 

> As it is looping anyway, do the copy then mute any tracks you want.
> Audibly no difference?

i'm not quite sure i understand what you mean..i've had a situation 
where i have a 4/4 kick-playlist in part 1, a kind of 
broken/breakbeat kick-playlist in part 2, and a rather complicated 
synth-playlist in part 1 that i want to be the same in all parts, so 
i'd like to be able to just copy the synth-playlist to the other 
parts, and not take the other tracks/playlists along. again, i think 
this possibility would also be pretty cool in live usage.

> >..a 'weirdy': when you have a 16 step pattern and you set the last 
> >step, step 16, to `skip', the playlist doesn't move beyond this   
> >pattern
> Hmmm, seems to work OK here or maybe I didn't understand right.

what i mean is that (in my p3) if the last step in a pattern is set 
to skip, no matter what length the pattern is, the pattern starts 
playing when the playlist hits this pattern, but it doesn't continue 
on to the next step of the playlist, it just keeps playing this 
pattern until you edit out the 'skip' in the last step. come to think 
of it, this may be a useful creative feature, kind of like being able 
to save the 'hold' setting. :)
grtz Chiel

On Mon, 22 Sep 2003 14:32:51 -0000, ch.³l <oozi@oozi.demon.nl> wrote:

>http://aa6tem.23.i-lan.nl/oozi/oozi_biased.mp3 

Wild stuff.

>- a way to quickly access the track mutes when in pattern- or 
>playlist-edit mode.

It's quite quick to pop in and out of edit mode.  

>- The possibility to save the `hold' setting in the playlist-edit 
>menu, so you can start a pattern with a single pattern, and on 
>releasing the `hold', the full playlist starts playing.

Well, you can save the playlist with length of 1then update the length
while playing. Any use?

>- When doing a `part copy' from the main menu page 3 while playing, 
>the possibility to return to the original playlist(s) in the 
>destination part.

Part copy copies things as they are to a new part. Playlists are per
track so you can do your part copy then select new playlist lengths as
you wish. 

>- The possiblity to set the first step for a pattern as well the last 
>step, without using the shift keys.

You can do this with the Skip function. Simply skip as many steps as
you want at the start of a pattern.

>- The possibility to freely assign one of the available functions to 
>each rows of pots.

8-)

>- When doing a `part copy' from the main menu page 3 while playing, 
>the possibility to select only some of the tracks playing at the time.

As it is looping anyway, do the copy then mute any tracks you want.
Audibly no difference?

>- Something to do with the pots when in regular play-mode. :)

8-)

>and i also think i found a bug, or at least a 'weirdy': when you have 
>a 16 step pattern and you set the last step, step 16, to `skip', the 
>playlist doesn't move beyond this pattern, whether the change-mode is 
>set to pattern or bar.

Hmmm, seems to work OK here or maybe I didn't understand right.

Paul
---
Paul Nagle / Soft Room Music
Email: paul@softroom.co.uk www.softroom.co.uk
                           www.BogusFocus.com
** STDM GIG 27th Sept NSC - www.SpankTheDarkMonkey.co.uk **

hi Colin,

> track mute...Could you live without it in playlist edit if I put it 
> in pattern edit? Or come up with another key combination to enable 
> it in PLE.
well both would be excellent, but only in pattern-edit would be 
really cool as well, as it's really easy to switch from PLE to PE, so 
that would in effect cover both modes for me.

> Would the ability to modify the 'hold' flag for each track from play
> mode do what you need ?
very much so. i think that could be a really great live-tool as well..

> > the possibility to return to the original playlist(s) in the 
> > destination part. 
> That would make it a bit slower... 
well i've accepted by now that i need to make sysex-dumps more 
frequently. that should probably help. 

> Maybe... as Paul N suggested, using skip for this...
i've tried Paul's method this afternoon and it works like a charm.. 
scrap that one off the list!

> > - The possibility to freely assign ... pots.
> That's on the TBI list already.
cool.

> ...that will only copy playlists for tracks that are currently     
> active. Will that do ?
:) that's what i thought it was going to do when i first used the 
part-copy function. yes, that would do perfectly.
 
> I'm working on it...The alternative would be to reduce to maximum  
> number of banks.
i think i might be able to live with less banks..but i'm finding some 
creative workarounds for this so it's not really that important to 
me. and as it's really easy to change a midi-channel for a track on 
the fly it's mainly just a matter of keeping my head together when 
playing.

> > - 16 tracks.. ;) 
> Thats easy - you just need to build a second P3 ;-)
you may laugh, but i've actually been thinking about that. 2 p3's 
would completely replace my need for other hardware sequencers..

> > - Something to do with the pots when in regular play-mode. :)
> Also TBI.
cool. what do you have in mind for them?

> The result of a weird compiler optimisation error
phew..thought i was missing something in the manual or just generally 
being an idiot again. 

> Nice mp3, by the way :-)
tnx...but it's mostly the p3 doing the work ;)

grtz Chiel

hi Colin,
i forgot something on the wishlist, but this is probably just a 
question of analyzing the sysex-dump; would it be possible to dump 
just one bank or even part, then later send them back to different 
memory locations in the p3's memory? or would this be something 
you're already planning for the dedicated utility you mentioned 
before?

grtz Chiel

Hi Chiel,

> Things i'd like to see added to P3 functionality
> 
> - a way to quickly access the track mutes when in pattern- or 
> playlist-edit mode.

I'd like to see that too ;-)
But what to use ?
I thought in pattern edit, holding FUNC+EDIT/PLAY could momentarily
switch the LEDs/step keys to track mute.
This wouldn't work in playlist edit - as soon as you hit FUNC, you're
going to exit that mode.
Could you live without it in playlist edit if I put it in pattern edit ?
Or come up with another key combination to enable it in PLE.

> - The possibility to save the `hold' setting in the playlist-edit 
> menu, so you can start a pattern with a single pattern, and on 
> releasing the `hold', the full playlist starts playing.

Would the ability to modify the 'hold' flag for each track from play
mode do what you need ?
If I can think of a suitable set of modifier keys, or just add another
soft key, this would be quite easy.

> - When doing a `part copy' from the main menu page 3 while playing, 
> the possibility to return to the original playlist(s) in the 
> destination part.

That would make it a bit slower... if you had to confirm what you're
doing.

> - The possiblity to set the first step for a pattern as well the last 
> step, without using the shift keys.

Maybe... as Paul N suggested, using skip for this will be much easier
than me finding the extra space to hold 384 start positions for patterns
;-)

> - The possibility to freely assign one of the available functions to 
> each rows of pots.

That's on the TBI list already.

> - When doing a `part copy' from the main menu page 3 while playing, 
> the possibility to select only some of the tracks playing at the time.

I was going to a a FUNC+part copy option, that will only copy playlists
for tracks that are currently active.
Will that do ?

> - The possibility to save different midi-channel settings with 
> different banks.

You're not the only one... I'm working on it, but there is very little
storage space left, and 12 banks x 9 channel selections = 54 bytes
minimum. I don't want to do it, only to have to undo it again later.
The alternative would be to reduce to maximum number of banks.

> - 16 tracks.. ;) 

Thats easy - you just need to build a second P3 ;-)

> - Something to do with the pots when in regular play-mode. :)

Also TBI.

> and i also think i found a bug, or at least a 'weirdy': when you have 
> a 16 step pattern and you set the last step, step 16, to `skip', the 
> playlist doesn't move beyond this pattern, whether the change-mode is 
> set to pattern or bar.

The result of a weird compiler optimisation error, now worked-around I
think.
v3.78 is at Yahoo files.

Cheers,
Colin f

PS
Nice mp3, by the way :-)

> i forgot something on the wishlist, but this is probably just a 
> question of analyzing the sysex-dump; would it be possible to dump 
> just one bank or even part, then later send them back to different 
> memory locations in the p3's memory?

It would, with just a change of pattern number in the sysex block.
You'll find the details you need in P3-sysex.pdf in the Yahoo files
section.

> or would this be something 
> you're already planning for the dedicated utility you mentioned 
> before?

Yep. Just a question of finding the time. Unless someone else wants to
write it ? ;-)
I've yet to look into MIDI handling in Visual C++, but imagine it will
be fairly straight forward...

Cheers,
Colin f

On Mon, 22 Sep 2003 21:14:34 -0000, ch.³l <oozi@oozi.demon.nl> wrote:

>hi Colin,
>i forgot something on the wishlist, but this is probably just a 
>question of analyzing the sysex-dump; would it be possible to dump 
>just one bank or even part, then later send them back to different 
>memory locations in the p3's memory? or would this be something 
>you're already planning for the dedicated utility you mentioned 
>before?

For me, with the prospect of a gig on Saturday with the P3, a Bank
Init function would be cool. I am more than confident to improvise an
entire 8 track sequence, building it up by banging in notes etc. on
each track. 

I'm really looking forward to gigging this thing - I've used the
realtime MIDI input far more than I ever expected to but when you
string a playlist together and then record over it making long,
complex yet quantised sequences, the results are out of this world...
8-)

Paul
---
Paul Nagle / Soft Room Music
Email: paul@softroom.co.uk www.softroom.co.uk
                           www.BogusFocus.com
** STDM GIG 27th Sept NSC - www.SpankTheDarkMonkey.co.uk **

On Mon, 22 Sep 2003 21:28:53 +0100, "Colin f" <colin@colinfraser.com>
wrote:

>> - The possibility to save different midi-channel settings with 
>> different banks.
>
>You're not the only one... I'm working on it, but there is very little
>storage space left, and 12 banks x 9 channel selections = 54 bytes
>minimum. I don't want to do it, only to have to undo it again later.
>The alternative would be to reduce to maximum number of banks.

You know how I once really wanted this. Well, oddly, now I don't. I
like the consistency of knowing that, whatever bank I dial up, if I
want to bang in some V-Synth sequences it's track 6; if I want to add
some PerFourmer sequences it's tracks 7 & 8 and so on. I think, given
the UI, I would want to keep the option to have it how it is although
I understand why others would still want to change things... 

Paul
---
Paul Nagle / Soft Room Music
Email: paul@softroom.co.uk www.softroom.co.uk
                           www.BogusFocus.com
** STDM GIG 27th Sept NSC - www.SpankTheDarkMonkey.co.uk **

hi Colin, 
i've uploaded the latest version of the firmware, after backing up my 
sequences of course...but some things happened that i'd like to check:
firstly, when uploading the firmware via midiOX, with midi-in and -
out connected to my pc, i got a continual 'BAD DATA' message. i had 
this twice, then i disconnected the midi-out and it worked fine. o i 
just realised this may be because i had 'sysex thru' on in midiOX..
and secondly i'd like to know how a sysex-dump back to the p3 is 
supposed to end, as i now didn't get anything like a 'done' message. 
it just stopped receiving data and the display read 'abort' over f3. 
i hit abort and it all works fine and all parts & patterns are back 
in place, but it got me kinda nervous..