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TKB - how do you use it?

TKB - how do you use it?

2009-01-02 by Carlos

I am getting a TKB at the end of the month, and I am wondering
what/how people use it even as a regular sequencer, but also
interesting patching/programming tricks/etc. The pages I found online
seem limited. So figured I would put it out there to the group to see
what functionality and tricks I should try once is here.

C.

Re: TKB - how do you use it?

2009-01-02 by matthew carpenter

Hi Carlos,

Just last night I used the TKB's Row A to control the pitch of an NTO while Row B controlled the shape of the NTOs variable wave output. Rows C and D could easily be patched to control other VC inputs for additional expressiveness. This is one of the most basic ways in which I use the TKB as a sequencer.
One fun patch is:
Clock -> TKB *Clock* -> VCFQ *Trig* IN
Row A -> VCFQ *Frequency* VC IN
Row B -> VCFQ *Q* VC IN

More --
You can patch the individual Gate Outs back to the RESET IN to create sub-sequences or just a shorter sequence, for instance.

To engage the RANDOM SELECT function, you have to bridge the RANDOM SELECT input with the RESET input and patch your pulse (for timing the RANDOM SELECT) to either of those inputs.

I have some notes I'll look at later and then I may post back with anything else.
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On Fri, Jan 2, 2009 at 1:03 PM, Carlos <bushwick@...> wrote:

I am getting a TKB at the end of the month, and I am wondering
what/how people use it even as a regular sequencer, but also
interesting patching/programming tricks/etc. The pages I found online
seem limited. So figured I would put it out there to the group to see
what functionality and tricks I should try once is here.

C.


Re: TKB - how do you use it?

2009-01-02 by John P

I probably use mine 10x more often as a controller. Use the step
trigger from KP to trigger envelopes. Use the different rows to program
VC parameters. The PRESSURE output can be fun, too, esp. if you adjust
it with a processor or processing input of the module you're
controlling. For example, using PRESSURE to modulate the 'growl' in VCM
#2, usually helps if you have a processor in the middle, to make the
growl more subtle.

Keep in mind, to use the TKB as a regular sequencer, you need to supply
it with a clock pulse. It doesn't have an internal clock. Patching up
1/2 a DSG (TRIG IN to GATE OUT) and multing another patch cord into TRIG
IN is usually how I create a clock. Then plug in the other end of the
2nd patch cord into CLOCK. Set the DSG rate to your taste.

The row of red jacks numbered 1-16 are trigger outputs. They go "high"
when that stage is selected. If you're doing a sequence of 16 steps,
you don't need to use these, but if you want to do fewer, then stick a
patch cord into the red numbered output jack one count higher than the
steps you want, then plug the other end into RESET. So, if you want a
repeating sequence of steps 1 through 7, patch 8 to RESET.

Random sequences can be produced by patching RANDOM and RESET together,
then sending your clock pulse in by multing another patch cord into
RANDOM or RESET. A random stage will be selected with with every clock
pulse.


Carlos wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> I am getting a TKB at the end of the month, and I am wondering
> what/how people use it even as a regular sequencer, but also
> interesting patching/programming tricks/etc. The pages I found online
> seem limited. So figured I would put it out there to the group to see
> what functionality and tricks I should try once is here.
>
> C.
>
>

Re: TKB - how do you use it?

2009-01-02 by Matt Carpenter

This is everything I have in my 'TKB Wizardry.txt'. All of it is from
this list's archives so some of you may recognize your own writing!
Let's call this a 'best of SMOG - TKB edition'.

"Random select selects a random sequencer stage. BUT in order for it
to work, not only do you have to patch a clock pulse into it (from DSG
or DTG or whatever source) but you have to patch it to RESET at the
same time. So run a short patch cord between RESET and RANDOM SELECT,
and plug in your clock signal into the back-end of the banana
(effectively multing everything together) connecting RESET and RANDOM.

One thing worthy of note on the TKB -- its 'reset' input is one of the
few, if not only, inputs on the Serge which can safely gang inputs.

What this allows is for two or more subsequences to be created on the
TKB. Patch, for instance, stage 5 and stage 15 into the reset. Start
the sequencer. It will run from 1 to 4 and reset. Now touch pad 6 and
it will begin cycling from 6 to 14. Touch any pad below 4 and the
cycle begins on that stage and resets at 5. Touch any pad above 6 but
below 14 and it resets to that stage as the start point, and cycles at
15. This is, for me, one of the coolest aspects of the TKB.

Here's a few things to try with the TKB:

1. Clock your TKB in the normal way. Then also route your clock
signal, wherever it's coming from, to a DSG or DTG or NCOM (divide by
N)... Send this divided pulse to HOLD and /or UP/DOWN so the sequence
pauses and reverses in different ways. Use an LFO or random source to
voltage control the pulse division amount going to HOLD etc so
sometimes it's dividing by 2, sometimes by 3, etc.... in other words,
varying the division.

2. Use one layer (say Layer A) to control a VCA modulating the
loudness of your VCO. Play with the loudness sequence in addition to
the pitch sequence.. You can come up with some jazzy combinations here.

3. Use a variable divided pulse as in #1 above to the RESET input,
giving you a voltage-variable number of sequence steps.

4. Clock ONLY the VERTICAL input, set up to 16 different 4-step
patterns (cycling through layers A,B,C,D for a given stage), and
select the different 4-note patterns with the touch pads. Use the ABCD
output to control your oscillator.

5. Use one TKB layer to control the speed of your clock. That way the
step rate won't be steady even & equal, but varied from one step to
the next. This takes some careful tweaking for good results.

6. Use a random pulse to clock your TKB. So you have a predictable
stream of tones but with unpredictable beat.

In "normal" sequencer operation, each of the row (A, B, C, D) jacks
will output the voltage of its respective pot at the current stage.
For each sequence stage (or "step") you get four different voltages,
each of which can be routed to the control destination(s) of your
choice. You might, for example route row A to the pitch of several
oscillators, row B to linear fm amount of an NTO modulated by a PCO,
row C to the wave multiplier cv input, and row D to filter cutoff.

The ABCD output works in conjunction with the Vertical Clock input,
allowing you to run sequences as long as 64 steps, but with only a
single voltage output (in contrast to the four outputs in "normal"
mode). When the Vertical Clock input receives a pulse, the ABCD output
is switched from its current row to the next row. For example, patch
one of the individual stage pulse outputs (1, 12, 16, etc, you pick!)
to the Vertical Clock input. Advance the TKB horizontally using a
regular clock input, and once the sequence reaches the stage you
patched to the Vertical Clock, the ABCD output will switch from the
row A voltage to the row B voltage. The next cycle around, it will
switch to the row C voltage, then row D, and finally back around to
row A again.

Here's one approach...

1. Use one layer of the TKB to control volume. Set all the knobs on
that layer to fully-on.

2. Send that voltage to one of the VCA's in your UAP.

3. Send your audio signal into that VCA, then send the output into
another VCA that your DADSR or DTG is enveloping the audio with.

Now to 'turn off' or silence any sequencer step in your melody just
turn off the layer you used for step 1 above. The advantage here is,
in addtion to creating a 'rest' beat(s) wherever you want, you can
also create accenting... daDA DADAda ... by varying the volume control
stage pot on the TKB.

More efficiently, this could also be done with one VCA if you can mix
DC signals together ... You mention you have an inverter/processor..
can that combine control voltages? I have a Dual Processor & a CV
mixer that do that. Anyway take the TKB volume control layer and your
ADSR and mix them together, biasing the whole thing by -5v, and use
this to control a VCA for your audio. You should only hear notes where
the TKB volume control stage is fully on. This can do the 'accenting'
as above.

It's also fun to use another TKB layer (by layer I mean the A,B,C,D
rows of 16 steps going across) to control pan position. Makes your
sequence dance nicely!

All the above needs only simple TKB patching... clock the clock input
like you always do, and set the sequence length using a stage output &
reset input, or just run 16 step sequences.

Set up a nice 8 step sequence, triggering it off the DTG as you
describe. you will have a steady rhythm with a note at every step.
feed output D from the tkb to the CV input of the DTG and apply a
little CV offset pos or neg. depending on the voltages set on line D,
the DTG will either speed up or down at that step and then move onto
the next one, speed up, etc. so, to set up a simple 4/4 with
note-rest-note-note, set up a 3 (yes) step sequence with a touch of
voltage from step 1 row D (causing DTG to hold) and none on D for 2
and 3. Adjust accordingly.

You can also try this type of thing with the "hold" input on the tkb
and a clock divider.

My favorite technique is to DC mix envelope and a TKB layer (like D),
then negative-bias the result to control VCA so that when layer D is
0, you get no sound, when it's fully CW, you get full volume. This
allows 'accenting' beats as well as rests and full-on notes."

Re: TKB - how do you use it?

2009-01-03 by John P

Really nice list, Matt.

" My favorite technique is to DC mix envelope and a TKB layer (like D),
then negative-bias the result to control VCA so that when layer D is
0, you get no sound, when it's fully CW, you get full volume. This
allows 'accenting' beats as well as rests and full-on notes."

This is quite fun to do playing live. Leave most D knobs at 0, then
work thru combinations, turning up the 4th, then the 6th, then the 2nd,
etc, so the rhythm is always shifting in an interesting way. Then end
by fading down the remaining D pots till all are at zero - now you're done.

Re: TKB - how do you use it?

2009-01-05 by Skot Wiedmann

--- On Fri, 1/2/09, Matt Carpenter wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>One thing worthy of note on the TKB -- its 'reset' input is one of the
>few, if not only, inputs on the Serge which can safely gang inputs.

i think you mean outputs. all the inputs are fully stackable. maybe it is more clear to say that many inputs can be connected to one output (and therefore connected to eachother), while it is usually not a good idea to connect several outputs together.

Re: TKB - how do you use it?

2009-01-05 by billobrecht

What is the danger in having more than one output
connected to a single input ? My understanding had been
that the results might be "unexpected", or non-linear,
(and, in general, a mixer should be used) but that no damage would result.

Am I misinformed ? Any information is appreciated !
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>i think you mean outputs. all the inputs are fully stackable. maybe it is more clear to say that many inputs can be connected to one output (and therefore connected to eachother), while it is usually not a good idea to connect several outputs together.

Re: TKB - how do you use it?

2009-01-05 by John P

whoa. unless I'm misunderstanding you, I believe you mean the outputs
are stackable.
"fan-out" means driving multiple (separate) inputs from a single
output. That, you can do.
"fan-in" means attempting to route separate outputs to a single input.
Damn, I can't find my Rich Gold book, but at the very least you'll have
impedance problems, and at worst you'll short things together which is
hard on the circuitry. Depending on what you're connecting together.

Skot Wiedmann wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
>
> i think you mean outputs. all the inputs are fully stackable.
>
>

Re: TKB - how do you use it?

2009-01-05 by John P

wait. now that I'm reading it again, I think you're on the right track
to begin with. Sorry.

Skot Wiedmann wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
>
>
> --- On Fri, 1/2/09, Matt Carpenter wrote:
>
> >One thing worthy of note on the TKB -- its 'reset' input is one of the
> >few, if not only, inputs on the Serge which can safely gang inputs.
>
> i think you mean outputs. all the inputs are fully stackable. maybe it
> is more clear to say that many inputs can be connected to one output
> (and therefore connected to eachother), while it is usually not a good
> idea to connect several outputs together.
>
>

Re: TKB - how do you use it?

2009-01-05 by Skot Wiedmann

--- On Sun, 1/4/09, billobrecht wrote:

>What is the danger in having more than one output
>connected to a single input ? My understanding had been
>that the results might be "unexpected" , or non-linear,
>(and, in general, a mixer should be used) but that no damage would result.

Yes, I would agree with this. Sorry if my previous statement was misleading.

Re: TKB - how do you use it?

2009-01-06 by zaum

> >What is the danger in having more than one output
> >connected to a single input ? My understanding had been
> >that the results might be "unexpected" , or non-linear,
> >(and, in general, a mixer should be used) but that no damage would
> result.
>
> Yes, I would agree with this. Sorry if my previous statement was
> misleading.

Well the general theory behind that being no good is you don't simply
have 2 outputs going into one input (without using a proper mixer)
the same connection also results in each output sending a hot signal
back into the other output. At that point it depends on the circuits
and how the behave with an external signal going into an out.
Generally many modules aren't affected but some can be especially
with a strong signal.

On the other hand certainly in the Buchla world, which of course had
a degree of influence on Serge, I understand it's fairly a common
practice with trigger pulses from multiple sources being "stacked" on
an input and the modules are okay with it.

nick

Re: TKB - how do you use it?

2009-01-06 by billobrecht

It would be very good to know specifically
which outputs should not be stacked into
a single input (and hence connected together).

Th school where I work will soon be receiving an animal panel.
I had hoped that the animal panel would be safe in the hands of
of the twenty year old animals who will be using it - barring
their attachment of 120v/15amp AC, etc.

Anything to watch out for in particular ?

Thanks

-----Original Message-----
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>From: zaum <zaum@...>
>Sent: Jan 6, 2009 6:31 AM
>To: SergeModular@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [SergeModular] Re: TKB - how do you use it?
>
>> >What is the danger in having more than one output
>> >connected to a single input ? My understanding had been
>> >that the results might be "unexpected" , or non-linear,
>> >(and, in general, a mixer should be used) but that no damage would
>> result.
>>
>> Yes, I would agree with this. Sorry if my previous statement was
>> misleading.
>
>Well the general theory behind that being no good is you don't simply
>have 2 outputs going into one input (without using a proper mixer)
>the same connection also results in each output sending a hot signal
>back into the other output. At that point it depends on the circuits
>and how the behave with an external signal going into an out.
>Generally many modules aren't affected but some can be especially
>with a strong signal.
>
>On the other hand certainly in the Buchla world, which of course had
>a degree of influence on Serge, I understand it's fairly a common
>practice with trigger pulses from multiple sources being "stacked" on
>an input and the modules are okay with it.
>
>nick

Re: TKB - how do you use it?

2009-01-06 by Skot Wiedmann

The distinction should be made between damaging the circuitry, and all other possibilities. No patch made within the serge system will damage the circuitry. Nor will patching present danger to the user. However, things might get out of hand with outputs patched to each other, which can cause some of the circuitry to temporarily stop working the way it is intended to. This might be a welcome new behaviour, or it might just be nothing. But I would encourage students to explore the many possibilities without resorting to these type of connections (but do not inhibit them with fear of a "wrong" connection, the occasional accidental output to output patch is part of learning). They will get more in terms of education and will not run out of things to try. Have fun!

Show quoted textHide quoted text

--- On Tue, 1/6/09, billobrecht <billobrecht@...> wrote:
From: billobrecht <billobrecht@...>
Subject: Re: [SergeModular] Re: TKB - how do you use it?
To: SergeModular@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, January 6, 2009, 11:47 AM

It would be very good to know specifically
which outputs should not be stacked into
a single input (and hence connected together).

Th school where I work will soon be receiving an animal panel.
I had hoped that the animal panel would be safe in the hands of
of the twenty year old animals who will be using it - barring
their attachment of 120v/15amp AC, etc.

Anything to watch out for in particular ?

Thanks

-----Original Message-----
>From: zaum <zaum@optonline. net>
>Sent: Jan 6, 2009 6:31 AM
>To: SergeModular@ yahoogroups. com
>Subject: [SergeModular] Re: TKB - how do you use it?
>
>> >What is the danger in having more than one output
>> >connected to a single input ? My understanding had been
>> >that the results might be "unexpected" , or non-linear,
>> >(and, in general, a mixer should be used) but that no damage would
>> result.
>>
>> Yes, I would agree with this. Sorry if my previous statement was
>> misleading.
>
>Well the general theory behind that being no good is you don't simply
>have 2 outputs going into one input (without using a proper mixer)
>the same connection also results in each output sending a hot signal
>back into the other output. At that point it depends on the circuits
>and how the behave with an external signal going into an out.
>Generally many modules aren't affected but some can be especially
>with a strong signal.
>
>On the other hand certainly in the Buchla world, which of course had
>a degree of influence on Serge, I understand it's fairly a common
>practice with trigger pulses from multiple sources being "stacked" on
>an input and the modules are okay with it.
>
>nick


Re: TKB - how do you use it?

2009-01-06 by darkstr1746@comcast.net

sorry. I beg to differ. I blew out a protective resistor on a DTG once by doing a bad thing. Can't remember what it was that I did. . . might have been a input to a output, but the thing is, there is protective circuitry built into many of the generators and if you screw up it is possible to bring the module down. Had to send it back for repair. Also, for owners of Cynthia modules. . . one of her generators will bring down a DTG or anthing else. Again, can't remember which one but again the results were the same. Wish I could remember which one. . I think she has since corrected the problem but the module in question was putting out 18 volts and when I plugged it in my DTG just died. LOL
Everyone agreed that this was some sort of anomaly but the fact remains that you can bring down a Serge module if you do something extremely goofy.
Thats my experience.
kind regards
jd
----- Skot Wiedmann <computer_jones@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> The distinction should be made between damaging the circuitry, and all other possibilities. No patch made within the serge system will damage the circuitry. Nor will patching present danger to the user. However, things might get out of hand with outputs patched to each other, which can cause some of the circuitry to temporarily stop working the way it is intended to. This might be a welcome new behaviour, or it might just be nothing. But I would encourage students to explore the many possibilities without resorting to these type of connections (but do not inhibit them with fear of a "wrong" connection, the occasional accidental output to output patch is part of learning). They will get more in terms of education and will not run out of things to try. Have fun!
>
>
> --- On Tue, 1/6/09, billobrecht <billobrecht@...> wrote:
> From: billobrecht <billobrecht@...>
> Subject: Re: [SergeModular] Re: TKB - how do you use it?
> To: SergeModular@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Tuesday, January 6, 2009, 11:47 AM
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> It would be very good to know specifically
>
> which outputs should not be stacked into
>
> a single input (and hence connected together).
>
>
>
> Th school where I work will soon be receiving an animal panel.
>
> I had hoped that the animal panel would be safe in the hands of
>
> of the twenty year old animals who will be using it - barring
>
> their attachment of 120v/15amp AC, etc.
>
>
>
> Anything to watch out for in particular ?
>
>
>
> Thanks
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
> >From: zaum <zaum@optonline. net>
>
> >Sent: Jan 6, 2009 6:31 AM
>
> >To: SergeModular@ yahoogroups. com
>
> >Subject: [SergeModular] Re: TKB - how do you use it?
>
> >
>
> >> >What is the danger in having more than one output
>
> >> >connected to a single input ? My understanding had been
>
> >> >that the results might be "unexpected" , or non-linear,
>
> >> >(and, in general, a mixer should be used) but that no damage would
>
> >> result.
>
> >>
>
> >> Yes, I would agree with this. Sorry if my previous statement was
>
> >> misleading.
>
> >
>
> >Well the general theory behind that being no good is you don't simply
>
> >have 2 outputs going into one input (without using a proper mixer)
>
> >the same connection also results in each output sending a hot signal
>
> >back into the other output. At that point it depends on the circuits
>
> >and how the behave with an external signal going into an out.
>
> >Generally many modules aren't affected but some can be especially
>
> >with a strong signal.
>
> >
>
> >On the other hand certainly in the Buchla world, which of course had
>
> >a degree of influence on Serge, I understand it's fairly a common
>
> >practice with trigger pulses from multiple sources being "stacked" on
>
> >an input and the modules are okay with it.
>
> >
>
> >nick
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Re: TKB - how do you use it?

2009-01-06 by billobrecht

What Skot has written is exactly what I believed to be
true - and am relieved to find confirmed

"encourage students to explore the many possibilities without resorting to these
type of connections (but do not inhibit them with fear of a "wrong" connection,
the occasional accidental output to output patch is part of learning"

so good to not have to worry about inhibiting them about wrong
connections. inhibiting them from drinking beer or soda near
the equipment is hard enough

thanks !

-----Original Message-----
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>From: Skot Wiedmann <computer_jones@...>
>Sent: Jan 6, 2009 3:08 PM
>To: SergeModular@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [SergeModular] Re: TKB - how do you use it?
>
>The distinction should be made between damaging the circuitry, and all other possibilities. No patch made within the serge system will damage the circuitry. Nor will patching present danger to the user. However, things might get out of hand with outputs patched to each other, which can cause some of the circuitry to temporarily stop working the way it is intended to. This might be a welcome new behaviour, or it might just be nothing. But I would encourage students to explore the many possibilities without resorting to these type of connections (but do not inhibit them with fear of a "wrong" connection, the occasional accidental output to output patch is part of learning). They will get more in terms of education and will not run out of things to try. Have fun!
>
>
>--- On Tue, 1/6/09, billobrecht <billobrecht@...> wrote:
>From: billobrecht <billobrecht@...>
>Subject: Re: [SergeModular] Re: TKB - how do you use it?
>To: SergeModular@yahoogroups.com
>Date: Tuesday, January 6, 2009, 11:47 AM
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> It would be very good to know specifically
>
>which outputs should not be stacked into
>
>a single input (and hence connected together).
>
>
>
>Th school where I work will soon be receiving an animal panel.
>
>I had hoped that the animal panel would be safe in the hands of
>
>of the twenty year old animals who will be using it - barring
>
>their attachment of 120v/15amp AC, etc.
>
>
>
>Anything to watch out for in particular ?
>
>
>
>Thanks
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>
>>From: zaum <zaum@optonline. net>
>
>>Sent: Jan 6, 2009 6:31 AM
>
>>To: SergeModular@ yahoogroups. com
>
>>Subject: [SergeModular] Re: TKB - how do you use it?
>
>>
>
>>> >What is the danger in having more than one output
>
>>> >connected to a single input ? My understanding had been
>
>>> >that the results might be "unexpected" , or non-linear,
>
>>> >(and, in general, a mixer should be used) but that no damage would
>
>>> result.
>
>>>
>
>>> Yes, I would agree with this. Sorry if my previous statement was
>
>>> misleading.
>
>>
>
>>Well the general theory behind that being no good is you don't simply
>
>>have 2 outputs going into one input (without using a proper mixer)
>
>>the same connection also results in each output sending a hot signal
>
>>back into the other output. At that point it depends on the circuits
>
>>and how the behave with an external signal going into an out.
>
>>Generally many modules aren't affected but some can be especially
>
>>with a strong signal.
>
>>
>
>>On the other hand certainly in the Buchla world, which of course had
>
>>a degree of influence on Serge, I understand it's fairly a common
>
>>practice with trigger pulses from multiple sources being "stacked" on
>
>>an input and the modules are okay with it.
>
>>
>
>>nick
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Re: TKB - how do you use it?

2009-01-06 by BooleanYulian

Well.. I clearly remeber being said on the list, a while back, that out-to-out connection is a nono and that there is a possibility of dammage. I, for one, have accidentally connected outputs together in the past and was lucky not to damage anything.

However, if I were you, I'd go straight to the horse's mouth and talk to STS or ask Mr. Puller on the list.


On 6-Jan-09, at 3:29 PM, billobrecht wrote:

What Skot has written is exactly what I believed to be
true - and am relieved to find confirmed

"encourage students to explore the many possibilities without resorting to these
type of connections (but do not inhibit them with fear of a "wrong" connection,
the occasional accidental output to output patch is part of learning"

so good to not have to worry about inhibiting them about wrong
connections. inhibiting them from drinking beer or soda near
the equipment is hard enough

thanks !

-----Original Message-----
>From: Skot Wiedmann <computer_jones@ yahoo.com>
>Sent: Jan 6, 2009 3:08 PM
>To: SergeModular@ yahoogroups. com
>Subject: Re: [SergeModular] Re: TKB - how do you use it?
>
>The distinction should be made between damaging the circuitry, and all other possibilities. No patch made within the serge system will damage the circuitry. Nor will patching present danger to the user. However, things might get out of hand with outputs patched to each other, which can cause some of the circuitry to temporarily stop working the way it is intended to. This might be a welcome new behaviour, or it might just be nothing. But I would encourage students to explore the many possibilities without resorting to these type of connections (but do not inhibit them with fear of a "wrong" connection, the occasional accidental output to output patch is part of learning). They will get more in terms of education and will not run out of things to try. Have fun!
>
>
>--- On Tue, 1/6/09, billobrecht <billobrecht@ earthlink. net> wrote:
>From: billobrecht <billobrecht@ earthlink. net>
>Subject: Re: [SergeModular] Re: TKB - how do you use it?
>To: SergeModular@ yahoogroups. com
>Date: Tuesday, January 6, 2009, 11:47 AM
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> It would be very good to know specifically
>
>which outputs should not be stacked into
>
>a single input (and hence connected together).
>
>
>
>Th school where I work will soon be receiving an animal panel.
>
>I had hoped that the animal panel would be safe in the hands of
>
>of the twenty year old animals who will be using it - barring
>
>their attachment of 120v/15amp AC, etc.
>
>
>
>Anything to watch out for in particular ?
>
>
>
>Thanks
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>
>>From: zaum <zaum@optonline. net>
>
>>Sent: Jan 6, 2009 6:31 AM
>
>>To: SergeModular@ yahoogroups. com
>
>>Subject: [SergeModular] Re: TKB - how do you use it?
>
>>
>
>>> >What is the danger in having more than one output
>
>>> >connected to a single input ? My understanding had been
>
>>> >that the results might be "unexpected" , or non-linear,
>
>>> >(and, in general, a mixer should be used) but that no damage would
>
>>> result.
>
>>>
>
>>> Yes, I would agree with this. Sorry if my previous statement was
>
>>> misleading.
>
>>
>
>>Well the general theory behind that being no good is you don't simply
>
>>have 2 outputs going into one input (without using a proper mixer)
>
>>the same connection also results in each output sending a hot signal
>
>>back into the other output. At that point it depends on the circuits
>
>>and how the behave with an external signal going into an out.
>
>>Generally many modules aren't affected but some can be especially
>
>>with a strong signal.
>
>>
>
>>On the other hand certainly in the Buchla world, which of course had
>
>>a degree of influence on Serge, I understand it's fairly a common
>
>>practice with trigger pulses from multiple sources being "stacked" on
>
>>an input and the modules are okay with it.
>
>>
>
>>nick
>
>
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Re: TKB - how do you use it?

2009-01-06 by don hassler

This was certainly the case with the older systems.
Show quoted textHide quoted text
--- On Tue, 1/6/09, BooleanYulian <a.b@...> wrote:

> From: BooleanYulian <a.b@...>
> Subject: Re: [SergeModular] Re: TKB - how do you use it?
> To: SergeModular@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Tuesday, January 6, 2009, 4:25 PM
> Well.. I clearly remeber being said on the list, a while
> back, that out-to-out connection is a nono and that there is
> a possibility of dammage. I, for one, have accidentally
> connected outputs together in the past and was lucky not to
> damage anything.
>
> However, if I were you, I'd go straight to the
> horse's mouth and talk to STS or ask Mr. Puller on the
> list.
>
>
> On 6-Jan-09, at 3:29 PM, billobrecht wrote:
>
> > What Skot has written is exactly what I believed to be
> > true - and am relieved to find confirmed
> >
> > "encourage students to explore the many
> possibilities without resorting to these
> > type of connections (but do not inhibit them with fear
> of a "wrong" connection,
> > the occasional accidental output to output patch is
> part of learning"
> >
> > so good to not have to worry about inhibiting them
> about wrong
> > connections. inhibiting them from drinking beer or
> soda near
> > the equipment is hard enough
> >
> > thanks !
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > >From: Skot Wiedmann
> <computer_jones@...>
> > >Sent: Jan 6, 2009 3:08 PM
> > >To: SergeModular@yahoogroups.com
> > >Subject: Re: [SergeModular] Re: TKB - how do you
> use it?
> > >
> > >The distinction should be made between damaging
> the circuitry, and all other possibilities. No patch made
> within the serge system will damage the circuitry. Nor will
> patching present danger to the user. However, things might
> get out of hand with outputs patched to each other, which
> can cause some of the circuitry to temporarily stop working
> the way it is intended to. This might be a welcome new
> behaviour, or it might just be nothing. But I would
> encourage students to explore the many possibilities without
> resorting to these type of connections (but do not inhibit
> them with fear of a "wrong" connection, the
> occasional accidental output to output patch is part of
> learning). They will get more in terms of education and
> will not run out of things to try. Have fun!
> > >
> > >
> > >--- On Tue, 1/6/09, billobrecht
> <billobrecht@...> wrote:
> > >From: billobrecht
> <billobrecht@...>
> > >Subject: Re: [SergeModular] Re: TKB - how do you
> use it?
> > >To: SergeModular@yahoogroups.com
> > >Date: Tuesday, January 6, 2009, 11:47 AM
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > It would be very good to know specifically
> > >
> > >which outputs should not be stacked into
> > >
> > >a single input (and hence connected together).
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >Th school where I work will soon be receiving an
> animal panel.
> > >
> > >I had hoped that the animal panel would be safe in
> the hands of
> > >
> > >of the twenty year old animals who will be using
> it - barring
> > >
> > >their attachment of 120v/15amp AC, etc.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >Anything to watch out for in particular ?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >Thanks
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >-----Original Message-----
> > >
> > >>From: zaum <zaum@optonline. net>
> > >
> > >>Sent: Jan 6, 2009 6:31 AM
> > >
> > >>To: SergeModular@ yahoogroups. com
> > >
> > >>Subject: [SergeModular] Re: TKB - how do you
> use it?
> > >
> > >>
> > >
> > >>> >What is the danger in having more
> than one output
> > >
> > >>> >connected to a single input ? My
> understanding had been
> > >
> > >>> >that the results might be
> "unexpected" , or non-linear,
> > >
> > >>> >(and, in general, a mixer should be
> used) but that no damage would
> > >
> > >>> result.
> > >
> > >>>
> > >
> > >>> Yes, I would agree with this. Sorry if my
> previous statement was
> > >
> > >>> misleading.
> > >
> > >>
> > >
> > >>Well the general theory behind that being no
> good is you don't simply
> > >
> > >>have 2 outputs going into one input (without
> using a proper mixer)
> > >
> > >>the same connection also results in each
> output sending a hot signal
> > >
> > >>back into the other output. At that point it
> depends on the circuits
> > >
> > >>and how the behave with an external signal
> going into an out.
> > >
> > >>Generally many modules aren't affected but
> some can be especially
> > >
> > >>with a strong signal.
> > >
> > >>
> > >
> > >>On the other hand certainly in the Buchla
> world, which of course had
> > >
> > >>a degree of influence on Serge, I understand
> it's fairly a common
> > >
> > >>practice with trigger pulses from multiple
> sources being "stacked" on
> > >
> > >>an input and the modules are okay with it.
> > >
> > >>
> > >
> > >>nick
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >

Re: TKB - how do you use it?

2009-01-08 by Harold Tique

Thank you Scott & Bill for your accumen.

H.T.


--- In SergeModular@yahoogroups.com, billobrecht <billobrecht@...>
wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> What Skot has written is exactly what I believed to be
> true - and am relieved to find confirmed
>
> "encourage students to explore the many possibilities without
resorting to these
> type of connections (but do not inhibit them with fear of
a "wrong" connection,
> the occasional accidental output to output patch is part of
learning"
>
> so good to not have to worry about inhibiting them about wrong
> connections. inhibiting them from drinking beer or soda near
> the equipment is hard enough
>
> thanks !
>
> -----Original Message-----
> >From: Skot Wiedmann <computer_jones@...>
> >Sent: Jan 6, 2009 3:08 PM
> >To: SergeModular@yahoogroups.com
> >Subject: Re: [SergeModular] Re: TKB - how do you use it?
> >
> >The distinction should be made between damaging the circuitry,
and all other possibilities. No patch made within the serge system
will damage the circuitry. Nor will patching present danger to the
user. However, things might get out of hand with outputs patched
to each other, which can cause some of the circuitry to temporarily
stop working the way it is intended to. This might be a welcome
new behaviour, or it might just be nothing. But I would encourage
students to explore the many possibilities without resorting to
these type of connections (but do not inhibit them with fear of
a "wrong" connection, the occasional accidental output to output
patch is part of learning). They will get more in terms of
education and will not run out of things to try. Have fun!
> >
> >
> >--- On Tue, 1/6/09, billobrecht <billobrecht@...> wrote:
> >From: billobrecht <billobrecht@...>
> >Subject: Re: [SergeModular] Re: TKB - how do you use it?
> >To: SergeModular@yahoogroups.com
> >Date: Tuesday, January 6, 2009, 11:47 AM
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > It would be very good to know specifically
> >
> >which outputs should not be stacked into
> >
> >a single input (and hence connected together).
> >
> >
> >
> >Th school where I work will soon be receiving an animal panel.
> >
> >I had hoped that the animal panel would be safe in the hands of
> >
> >of the twenty year old animals who will be using it - barring
> >
> >their attachment of 120v/15amp AC, etc.
> >
> >
> >
> >Anything to watch out for in particular ?
> >
> >
> >
> >Thanks
> >
> >
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >
> >>From: zaum <zaum@optonline. net>
> >
> >>Sent: Jan 6, 2009 6:31 AM
> >
> >>To: SergeModular@ yahoogroups. com
> >
> >>Subject: [SergeModular] Re: TKB - how do you use it?
> >
> >>
> >
> >>> >What is the danger in having more than one output
> >
> >>> >connected to a single input ? My understanding had been
> >
> >>> >that the results might be "unexpected" , or non-linear,
> >
> >>> >(and, in general, a mixer should be used) but that no damage
would
> >
> >>> result.
> >
> >>>
> >
> >>> Yes, I would agree with this. Sorry if my previous statement
was
> >
> >>> misleading.
> >
> >>
> >
> >>Well the general theory behind that being no good is you don't
simply
> >
> >>have 2 outputs going into one input (without using a proper
mixer)
> >
> >>the same connection also results in each output sending a hot
signal
> >
> >>back into the other output. At that point it depends on the
circuits
> >
> >>and how the behave with an external signal going into an out.
> >
> >>Generally many modules aren't affected but some can be
especially
> >
> >>with a strong signal.
> >
> >>
> >
> >>On the other hand certainly in the Buchla world, which of course
had
> >
> >>a degree of influence on Serge, I understand it's fairly a
common
> >
> >>practice with trigger pulses from multiple sources
being "stacked" on
> >
> >>an input and the modules are okay with it.
> >
> >>
> >
> >>nick
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>

Re: TKB - how do you use it?

2009-01-12 by S V G

According to the horse's mouth hisself, "if you see that two outputs are connected together, calmly unpatch them. There's a one in a million chance that a circuit will be damaged."

Those were Serge's words directly.

I don't know if Rex has addressed any of that 'one in a million' chance of damaging something or not. Certainly I would not intentionally patch two outputs together...

Stephen

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