SergeModular

>What do others think of the Serge VC filters?

I only have the VCFQ and my thoughts are that its VERY clean - pristine
actually. I think it excels when attempting
to emulate 'real' acoustic sounds and with some help from the Res EQ and
Phaser I can get into King Tubby 'flying hi-hat'
territory using the Hi-Pass out. Not so good at bubbly, deep acidic sounds.

But I like the VCFQ because it gives my Serge a unique sound. I'm glad there
are no STS attempts at a 'Moog-style'
or 'SEM style' filter... I like my synths to have their own individual
character. I would like Rex to do his own 24db filter though - just not
in the style of any other manufacturer.

When I do need a deliciously warm bottom end for bass sounds I use Serge
NTO's but route them into my Minimoog's filter.
It's the closest I can get to the amazing bottom-end on the Tonto's
Expanding Headband's 'Zero Time' album. I believe this was also a Moog/Serge
combination or did Serge's involvement come later in the 70's??

Does anybody know what modules Serge designed for TONTO and when? Was it
more stable VCO's?

Kirk.

Oh, I have the VCFQ and the phaser, and the DSG & DTG!
The DSG & DTG are very useful as funky odd filters for creating some
mellowness, rolling off buzziness or unwanted brightness.
VCFQ is very versatile as audio filter, resonator, percussion sounds
w/trigger input, sinewave oscillator, once in a while I use the LOW
mode for lowspeed damped sinewaves.
Wish it had more 'bite', rolloff. It is very clean.
Phase shifter is nice and creamy. Handy for creating vibrato and fm
effects.

As for TONTO, Serge created 12-stage versions of the analog shift
register, he invented the VC DADSR, came up with the NTO (as in TO-NTO),
don't know what all else.

Cheers

JP

Real Name wrote:

>VCFQ is very versatile as audio filter, resonator, percussion sounds
>w/trigger input,

good point! I forgot about this feature... its killer. There is an amazing
electronic
percussion intro by Stevie Wonder on Syreeta's 1972 version of 'I Love Every
Little Thing About You' -
created on TONTO (again)... I managed to get the same effect by triggering
the VCFQ
+ some noise and complex modulation from the DSG's.

Thx for the TONTO info...


K.

> I would like Rex to do his own 24db filter though - just not
> in the style of any other manufacturer.

Yes, although the VCFQ has it's merits I just don't think it matches the
giddy heights set by most of the other Serge modules. Some people think that
any 'multi-mode' is a compromise, I don't know but dedicated LPF's and HPF's
would be an exciting addition to the Serge system. As mentioned the other
day however, new Serge modules are not high on the agenda at the moment.

>Phase shifter is nice and creamy. Handy for creating vibrato and fm
>effects.<

I'm glad the words 'vibrato and fm' were highlighted as IMO phase shifting
is not one of this modules strong points.
I'm off to try and get my AM inputs to work....haven't figured that out yet.
CW

> What about one module which contains lowpass, highpass and coupler.

Something similar (and banana socketed) is the old Synton 3224 VCF

> I am often told (and seem to hear) the
> circuitry (vactrol) makes for very nice phasing sounds.

I just don't think it sounds very rich for tape phasing effects. I'm sure
it's excellent for other phase related functions.
CW

> I just don't think it sounds very rich for tape phasing effects. I'm sure
> it's excellent for other phase related functions.

"Tape phasing" ? That would be Flanging rather than phasing, wouldn't it ?

The Eventide Instant Flanger had a nice feature to emulate tape flanging:
A "Bounce" control, sort of sub audio resonance in the CV path of
the delay time modulation. If you want to emulate this with a modular,
start with a modulated Delay (not with the phase shifter) and set up
a sub audio resonance in the CV path. (The Eventide circuit is a little
more involved than this, actually, but that would be a good start IMO).

JH.

> > What about one module which contains lowpass, highpass and coupler.

Isn't the variable bandwidth filter just the highpass of one VCF
coupled to the lowpass of another. Still only 12dB/Octave though.

> Something similar (and banana socketed) is the old Synton 3224 VCF>

That's a pair of Curtis filters (24dB/Octave), but I don't think there's
any coupling involved. Actually, the other Synton VCF was very
Serge-like. State variable, CA3280 based... Does Serge still use
these?


Steve Ridley

> As for TONTO, Serge created 12-stage versions of the analog

shift

> register, he invented the VC DADSR, came up with the NTO (as

in TO-NTO),

> don't know what all else.

OK, this info is from Nick Kent, who's been hanging out with
Malcolm Cecil for a couple years.--

I'm sure there wasn't anything Serge on Zero Time (1971 ) since
they met later. The Serge built portions were the mid 70s

I'd assume you can hear some on "Its About Time" though I've
never asked specifically. Then there is the badly distributed
album "Radiance" done by Malcolm Cecil solo in '81. He might
be open to suggestions what he can do with a lot of LP copies
he got as payment for that one. Great album, not real funky
though. (Paul Horn guests, otherwise its TONTO)

The Analog Shift Register was engineered and built by Serge
and company but the concept came from a braistorm session
with the TONTO team.

The VC DADSR is based on an existing Malcolm Cecil prototype.
He was upset that Serge had little experience with ADSRs
coming from a Buchla background and felt keenly that the
dynamic VC control on them was lacking in Moog's designs. I
think the deal was Serge manufactured a boxload of them for
TONTO on commission and it seems the underlying
understanding was that Serge could make more to sell himself.

I've seen the prototype module, I've never seen the freestanding
case of them that Serge built so I don't know if Serge added the
exponential slopes, etc.

One of the underlying projects was improving on Moog's oscs.
Kind of important consdering Tonto is 10 voice polyphonic

They can do some things with locking and producing
subharmonics that the current Serge modules didn't incorporate.
I didn't 100% understand his explanation. Seemed to be VC
subharmonics, like a divider, but it sounded sync related too. His
in turn didn't have the morphable waveshape, so I don't think he
was in on that aspect at all.

Serge did many compact HP/LP/Coupler one piece modules, I
think Moog eventually had that same idea. The designs seem to
be Moog-like. He likes the arp 2500 filter so a real one is kind of
mismatchedly in Tonto. There are many real moog filters too of
course. I'm not sure if he has any filters from the Serge modular
per se, I don't think so.

I heard him say the key to the fat basslines was a -lot- of oscs in
unison. I'm sure the moog filters added the final touch

Malcolm is currently shopping around for the right hosting
service for his TONTO site. I saw the current mockup of a ready
to upload site. Not incredibly tech oriented yet, but lots of cool
pics. The front page has a VR type interface, like where you can
pan around.

I've (Nick) got pretty close digital shots of nearly every module in
the 1999 setup but I have to clear it with Malcolm before I dump
them on the net. Maybe they will wind up on his site, I don't know

Malcolm has nixed the idea of setting up TONTO in Manhattan for
the time being. I think is plan is to wait until someone makes a
serious production offer involving him and TONTO and he'll set
TONTO up somewhere. Its a lot more mobile than it seems. Its
just really big ;-) I saw him break it down in like a half a day. I
regret not just watching or helping. I kind of walked past in the
AM and saw TONTO , came around at lunch and saw less than
half TONTO then came at the end of the day and saw TONTO
long gone. I happened to work a block from Malcolm at the time,
hence I could pop in but not skip work altogether.

Last time I was there he was scared and facinated by this
documentary video he borrowed about HAARP (the military
research of Tesla theories), I didn't have the nerve to ask if he
was contimplating the sonic potential.

Nick Kent, who got stranded outside when Egroups got
Yahooed, is messing around with low bandwidth streaming
media. So for a limited time (at least a week) you can catch 28
minutes of an April 2000 interview with Malcolm Cecil (TONTO)
talking about what Serge built for him.

Its in kind of crappy low bandwidth streaming Realmedia but at
least you don't have to wait for it to download.

Nick is very curious how reliable the stream is, like did it stall out
and resume? Did it stall out and not come back? Did it play
smooth? He knows the sound is crappy but is it unintelligibly
crappy or can you follow it?

anyway here it is
http://museum.50megs.com/MCecil1.html

don't click on the banners or crap. Clicking on the "Malcolm Cecil
Interview" line should start up your realplayer (if you have one)

nick's tech address is zaum@...

I have a seven panel system i got about a year and a half ago - BTW,
I got the system in about 4 or 5 days (it's all "shop" panels, but I
got everything except the Animal and the Soup Kitchen2)- it's an
awesome system, and I love the filters - all of them - I do wish
there were a R.P./Serge designed 24db in the lot, but I get some
added color (as if you need it) by using a Waldorf dual XPole filter,
and that works great. I,ve even run the Serge modules into the
external ins of the Access Virus and the Waldorf XT at times.
Honestly, there is nothing I Don,t like about the Serge. Maybe the
price. But I first played the original Serges at UCLA Music labs in
the early '70s. After that, in my mind there was no question. One day
I would own one. And that instrument was nothing compared to what Rex
has done with it in terms of stability, specs, and finish. So I just
bellied up to the bar and payed the price. Over twenty years later. I
have played the larger moog systems, and they don't compare. I spent
2 years playing a three-cabinet, twin keyboard Arp 2500 at UT, and
while completely different, and wonderful in many ways, it didn't
compare. I've read the posts by the guys who would like to play the
Serge before they buy it, and I sympathize. But just get one. Don't
worry that you won't like it, because there is nothing to compare it
to. I totally agree with the writer who said he was glad everybody
didn't have one of these things. I feel the same way. The Serge plays
a large role in the unique sound of the stuff coming out of my studio.
In ten years, I'll get thirty grand for it. (that's not to say I
would actually consider selling it). As for STS, and the company
philosophy, well, if it were not for Rex, we probably would not have
this instrument alive and well today, and certainly not in its
present incarnation. So whatever he does with it is fine by me. I
mean, reaLLY. It is a one-off (even the "shop" panels), hand-built,
hand-calibrated, rare and beautifully crafted musical instrument in a
class of its own. If you want "a modular", there are ways to get one.
The convertible I like is the Jaguar XK8, and I don't want another.
And I don't just want the steering wheel, i.e. the filters. I want
the whole damn thing. But then I'm weird that way. Rex has to hang up
on Me, cause I talk too much. Imagine That.

BarryM

To follow up: here is part 2 of a 4/2000 interview with Malcolm Cecil
talking about TONTO and his work with Serge


http://members.nbci.com/zaum/MC2.html

its a realmedia file and it streams (22 minutes)

this time the bitrate is twice as good so it should sound a little better.
The recording is kind of crappy but not as crappy as the first version.

And of course the server is a little more unreliable than the other one.


nick kent

on 5/10/01 1:57 AM, Tim Curtis at sexsymbol@... wrote: