PLAN B analog blog

We've got god quotes from our metal manufacturers and we've having
other prototypes made now.  The rails are covered as well.  Price has
not been finalized.  They'll run somewhere between $150 to $17 with
the power cable.

The Powr supply is stil in the fire.  There are alot of cosidrations
here,  but I see this going at about $175 as well.

when? within the next quarter year. tops.  We have a lot of stuff
going on right now:  mostly the move, changing dealers, now selling
direct - that just came up.  We have to get settled and then start
mving forwad form there.  But the 23rd things will be business as usual.

Darn, the Ringer no longer seems all that economical anymore. Maybe I'm missing 
something, but I was expecting something more like DotCom's frame rack: $65. Maybe 
find out who's making it for them much cheaper?

If I want a 6U system, I will need $340 (2 Ringers) + $175 (PS, assuming it's at least 1.2A) 
+ $100 (decent quality case) = $615.

 I can buy a 100G6 for $530!




--- In PLAN_B_analog_blog@yahoogroups.com, "(i think you can figure that out)" 
<peter@...> wrote:

>
> We've got god quotes from our metal manufacturers and we've having
> other prototypes made now.  The rails are covered as well.  Price has
> not been finalized.  They'll run somewhere between $150 to $17 with
> the power cable.
> 
> The Powr supply is stil in the fire.  There are alot of cosidrations
> here,  but I see this going at about $175 as well.
> 
> when? within the next quarter year. tops.  We have a lot of stuff
> going on right now:  mostly the move, changing dealers, now selling
> direct - that just came up.  We have to get settled and then start
> mving forwad form there.  But the 23rd things will be business as usual.
>

This is why I don't like giving prices out before things are final. 
Please don't mnail me on this stuff, the machinist we're using for the
rack ears hasn't quoted our schedled quantities yet.

But you must realize that a single PSU can power four, possibly five
rows. Once the multiples stack up you start saving a lot of $$.




--- In PLAN_B_analog_blog@yahoogroups.com, "laryn91" <caymus91@...> wrote:
>
> Darn, the Ringer no longer seems all that economical anymore. Maybe
I'm missing 
> something, but I was expecting something more like DotCom's frame
rack: $65. Maybe 
> find out who's making it for them much cheaper?
> 
> If I want a 6U system, I will need $340 (2 Ringers) + $175 (PS,
assuming it's at least 1.2A) 
> + $100 (decent quality case) = $615.
> 
>  I can buy a 100G6 for $530!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --- In PLAN_B_analog_blog@yahoogroups.com, "(i think you can figure
that out)" 
> <peter@> wrote:
> >
> > We've got god quotes from our metal manufacturers and we've having
> > other prototypes made now.  The rails are covered as well.  Price has
> > not been finalized.  They'll run somewhere between $150 to $17 with
> > the power cable.
> > 
> > The Powr supply is stil in the fire.  There are alot of cosidrations
> > here,  but I see this going at about $175 as well.
> > 
> > when? within the next quarter year. tops.  We have a lot of stuff
> > going on right now:  mostly the move, changing dealers, now selling
> > direct - that just came up.  We have to get settled and then start
> > mving forwad form there.  But the 23rd things will be business as
usual.
> >
>

Can't the power supply in a G6 also power about 4 racks worth of modules?

On Fri, Feb 13, 2009 at 2:45 PM, (i think you can figure that out)
<peter@buzzclick-music.com> wrote:

> This is why I don't like giving prices out before things are final.
> Please don't mnail me on this stuff, the machinist we're using for the
> rack ears hasn't quoted our schedled quantities yet.
>
> But you must realize that a single PSU can power four, possibly five
> rows. Once the multiples stack up you start saving a lot of $$.
>
> --- In PLAN_B_analog_blog@yahoogroups.com, "laryn91" <caymus91@...> wrote:
>>
>> Darn, the Ringer no longer seems all that economical anymore. Maybe
> I'm missing
>> something, but I was expecting something more like DotCom's frame
> rack: $65. Maybe
>> find out who's making it for them much cheaper?
>>
>> If I want a 6U system, I will need $340 (2 Ringers) + $175 (PS,
> assuming it's at least 1.2A)
>> + $100 (decent quality case) = $615.
>>
>> I can buy a 100G6 for $530!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --- In PLAN_B_analog_blog@yahoogroups.com, "(i think you can figure
> that out)"
>> <peter@> wrote:
>> >
>> > We've got god quotes from our metal manufacturers and we've having
>> > other prototypes made now. The rails are covered as well. Price has
>> > not been finalized. They'll run somewhere between $150 to $17 with
>> > the power cable.
>> >
>> > The Powr supply is stil in the fire. There are alot of cosidrations
>> > here, but I see this going at about $175 as well.
>> >
>> > when? within the next quarter year. tops. We have a lot of stuff
>> > going on right now: mostly the move, changing dealers, now selling
>> > direct - that just came up. We have to get settled and then start
>> > mving forwad form there. But the 23rd things will be business as
> usual.
>> >
>>
>
>

It's what? 1.2 amps i think, yes?  Four rows is seriously pushing it.
Maybe three, but you'll be stretching it to it's limit which is an
invitation for noise problems. Our supply is going to give you 3.2 and
completely over current protected. You plug a module in backwards, the
PSU will turn itself off before the fuse blows. The noise is properly
managed, there are a lot of benefits of an OEM supply.

Regarding the dot com $65 rack, that's a very sweet number indeed, but there's no way in heck we'll be able to match that.  While I haven't given them the bigger numbers yet, the cost of the parts alone is well over that.







--- In PLAN_B_analog_blog@yahoogroups.com, Van Eck <vaneck@...> wrote:
>
> Can't the power supply in a G6 also power about 4 racks worth of
modules?
> 
> On Fri, Feb 13, 2009 at 2:45 PM, (i think you can figure that out)
> <peter@...> wrote:
> > This is why I don't like giving prices out before things are final.
> > Please don't mnail me on this stuff, the machinist we're using for the
> > rack ears hasn't quoted our schedled quantities yet.
> >
> > But you must realize that a single PSU can power four, possibly five
> > rows. Once the multiples stack up you start saving a lot of $$.
> >
> > --- In PLAN_B_analog_blog@yahoogroups.com, "laryn91" <caymus91@>
wrote:

> >>
> >> Darn, the Ringer no longer seems all that economical anymore. Maybe
> > I'm missing
> >> something, but I was expecting something more like DotCom's frame
> > rack: $65. Maybe
> >> find out who's making it for them much cheaper?
> >>
> >> If I want a 6U system, I will need $340 (2 Ringers) + $175 (PS,
> > assuming it's at least 1.2A)
> >> + $100 (decent quality case) = $615.
> >>
> >> I can buy a 100G6 for $530!
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --- In PLAN_B_analog_blog@yahoogroups.com, "(i think you can figure
> > that out)"
> >> <peter@> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > We've got god quotes from our metal manufacturers and we've having
> >> > other prototypes made now. The rails are covered as well. Price has
> >> > not been finalized. They'll run somewhere between $150 to $17 with
> >> > the power cable.
> >> >
> >> > The Powr supply is stil in the fire. There are alot of cosidrations
> >> > here, but I see this going at about $175 as well.
> >> >
> >> > when? within the next quarter year. tops. We have a lot of stuff
> >> > going on right now: mostly the move, changing dealers, now selling
> >> > direct - that just came up. We have to get settled and then start
> >> > mving forwad form there. But the 23rd things will be business as
> > usual.
> >> >
> >>
> >
> >
>

Don't you also need a power distribution bus? Is that included with each Ringer? Is there 
some sort of mounting attachment to the ringer so you can still use your current ribbon 
cables?



--- In PLAN_B_analog_blog@yahoogroups.com, "(i think you can figure that out)" 
<peter@...> wrote:
>
> It's what? 1.2 amps i think, yes?  Four rows is seriously pushing it.
> Maybe three, but you'll be stretching it to it's limit which is an
> invitation for noise problems. Our supply is going to give you 3.2 and
> completely over current protected. You plug a module in backwards, the
> PSU will turn itself off before the fuse blows. The noise is properly
> managed, there are a lot of benefits of an OEM supply.
> 
> Regarding the dot com $65 rack, that's a very sweet number indeed, but there's no way 
in heck we'll be able to match that.  While I haven't given them the bigger numbers yet, 
the cost of the parts alone is well over that.

> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --- In PLAN_B_analog_blog@yahoogroups.com, Van Eck <vaneck@> wrote:
> >
> > Can't the power supply in a G6 also power about 4 racks worth of
> modules?
> >
> > On Fri, Feb 13, 2009 at 2:45 PM, (i think you can figure that out)
> > <peter@> wrote:
> > > This is why I don't like giving prices out before things are final.
> > > Please don't mnail me on this stuff, the machinist we're using for the
> > > rack ears hasn't quoted our schedled quantities yet.
> > >
> > > But you must realize that a single PSU can power four, possibly five
> > > rows. Once the multiples stack up you start saving a lot of $$.
> > >
> > > --- In PLAN_B_analog_blog@yahoogroups.com, "laryn91" <caymus91@>
> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> Darn, the Ringer no longer seems all that economical anymore. Maybe
> > > I'm missing
> > >> something, but I was expecting something more like DotCom's frame
> > > rack: $65. Maybe
> > >> find out who's making it for them much cheaper?
> > >>
> > >> If I want a 6U system, I will need $340 (2 Ringers) + $175 (PS,
> > > assuming it's at least 1.2A)
> > >> + $100 (decent quality case) = $615.
> > >>
> > >> I can buy a 100G6 for $530!
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> --- In PLAN_B_analog_blog@yahoogroups.com, "(i think you can figure
> > > that out)"
> > >> <peter@> wrote:
> > >> >
> > >> > We've got god quotes from our metal manufacturers and we've having
> > >> > other prototypes made now. The rails are covered as well. Price has
> > >> > not been finalized. They'll run somewhere between $150 to $17 with
> > >> > the power cable.
> > >> >
> > >> > The Powr supply is stil in the fire. There are alot of cosidrations
> > >> > here, but I see this going at about $175 as well.
> > >> >
> > >> > when? within the next quarter year. tops. We have a lot of stuff
> > >> > going on right now: mostly the move, changing dealers, now selling
> > >> > direct - that just came up. We have to get settled and then start
> > >> > mving forwad form there. But the 23rd things will be business as
> > > usual.
> > >> >
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> >
>

Nope!


The ringer power is going to be managed like Sean Price handled the Space Case - single power cable daisychained.  We'll be doing adapters for A. Systems gear.




--- In PLAN_B_analog_blog@yahoogroups.com, "laryn91" <caymus91@...> wrote:
>
> Don't you also need a power distribution bus? Is that included with
each Ringer? Is there 
> some sort of mounting attachment to the ringer so you can still use
your current ribbon 
> cables?
> 
> 
> 
> --- In PLAN_B_analog_blog@yahoogroups.com, "(i think you can figure
that out)" 
> <peter@> wrote:
> >
> > It's what? 1.2 amps i think, yes?  Four rows is seriously pushing it.
> > Maybe three, but you'll be stretching it to it's limit which is an
> > invitation for noise problems. Our supply is going to give you 3.2 and
> > completely over current protected. You plug a module in backwards, the
> > PSU will turn itself off before the fuse blows. The noise is properly
> > managed, there are a lot of benefits of an OEM supply.
> > 
> > Regarding the dot com $65 rack, that's a very sweet number indeed,
but there's no way 
> in heck we'll be able to match that.  While I haven't given them the
bigger numbers yet, 
> the cost of the parts alone is well over that.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > --- In PLAN_B_analog_blog@yahoogroups.com, Van Eck <vaneck@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Can't the power supply in a G6 also power about 4 racks worth of
> > modules?
> > >
> > > On Fri, Feb 13, 2009 at 2:45 PM, (i think you can figure that out)
> > > <peter@> wrote:
> > > > This is why I don't like giving prices out before things are
final.
> > > > Please don't mnail me on this stuff, the machinist we're using
for the
> > > > rack ears hasn't quoted our schedled quantities yet.
> > > >
> > > > But you must realize that a single PSU can power four,
possibly five
> > > > rows. Once the multiples stack up you start saving a lot of $$.
> > > >
> > > > --- In PLAN_B_analog_blog@yahoogroups.com, "laryn91" <caymus91@>
> > wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >> Darn, the Ringer no longer seems all that economical anymore.
Maybe
> > > > I'm missing
> > > >> something, but I was expecting something more like DotCom's frame
> > > > rack: $65. Maybe
> > > >> find out who's making it for them much cheaper?
> > > >>
> > > >> If I want a 6U system, I will need $340 (2 Ringers) + $175 (PS,
> > > > assuming it's at least 1.2A)
> > > >> + $100 (decent quality case) = $615.
> > > >>
> > > >> I can buy a 100G6 for $530!
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> --- In PLAN_B_analog_blog@yahoogroups.com, "(i think you can
figure
> > > > that out)"
> > > >> <peter@> wrote:
> > > >> >
> > > >> > We've got god quotes from our metal manufacturers and we've
having
> > > >> > other prototypes made now. The rails are covered as well.
Price has
> > > >> > not been finalized. They'll run somewhere between $150 to
$17 with
> > > >> > the power cable.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > The Powr supply is stil in the fire. There are alot of
cosidrations
> > > >> > here, but I see this going at about $175 as well.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > when? within the next quarter year. tops. We have a lot of
stuff
> > > >> > going on right now: mostly the move, changing dealers, now
selling
> > > >> > direct - that just came up. We have to get settled and then
start
> > > >> > mving forwad form there. But the 23rd things will be
business as

> > > > usual.
> > > >> >
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

On Fri, Feb 13, 2009 at 09:40:58PM -0000, (i think you can figure that out) wrote:

Hi Peter,

 > It's what? 1.2 amps i think, yes?  Four rows is seriously pushing it.
 > Maybe three, but you'll be stretching it to it's limit which is an
 > invitation for noise problems. Our supply is going to give you 3.2 and
 > completely over current protected. You plug a module in backwards, the
 > PSU will turn itself off before the fuse blows. The noise is properly
 > managed, there are a lot of benefits of an OEM supply.

Like the others, I'm excited about the ringers, but one thing puzzles me.
The best shot I've seen of it so far is the pic at 
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_xnBKPY_t0YM/SXSwdx-2w9I/AAAAAAAACLA/USYfHGetPbQ/s1600-h/plan-b-ringer-performance-system.jpg
which leaves me wondering.. if I screw this into my rack, where do I
mount the bus board for the modules to plug into ?
Is there something obvious I'm overlooking, or will this require some creative diy?

Also, will bus boards come with the ringer kits, or will we need to pick up
one of doepfers?

Given the beefy power supply, and that I typically only use at most half the
sockets on each bus, being able to share a bus between multiple ringers
sure looks attractive for those of us with ever increasing racks of modules.

thanks,

	Dave

-- 
http://www.attacksustain.com

Yeah that is a very cool case design! But if you're now going the DIY route, there's even 
cheaper solutions. Here's the math "dude" :-)

$390 for 2 Doepfer DIY #2 kits + whatever it costs to make the cool Buchla looking case.  
$525 + case costs for Ringer solution.

I don't mean to be critical and Peter understands the market 100x better than I do, but it 
seems to me, the Ringer is too expensive to compete with existing Euro case and rack 
solutions.  

Maybe it's competitive for large systems and there's a decent market for that? 
 

--- In PLAN_B_analog_blog@yahoogroups.com, sascha victoria <sascha.victoria@...> 
wrote:
>
> Yeah dude, do the math on a 15u system... thats a pretty sweet deal.
> 
> Also, it would be really easy to do something like this. In stead of the
> curved sides you put straight lines for each rack. All you'd need to do is
> cut the sides, top and front.
> 
> 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PLAN_B_analog_blog/photos/album/630816539/pic/20
48352879/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=41&count=20&dir=asc
>

I am dreaming of the day when all the eurorack manufacturers join
forces to supply a single and ultra affordable case option.

The motivation? There is not a single modular synth enthusiast on the
planet that does not get twitchy when there is spare space in their rack.

So the cheaper the cases (even if they sell at a loss) will
universally result in way more module purchases to fill the voids!!!!




--- In PLAN_B_analog_blog@yahoogroups.com, "laryn91" <caymus91@...> wrote:
>
> Yeah that is a very cool case design! But if you're now going the
DIY route, there's even 
> cheaper solutions. Here's the math "dude" :-)
> 
> $390 for 2 Doepfer DIY #2 kits + whatever it costs to make the cool
Buchla looking case.  
> $525 + case costs for Ringer solution.
> 
> I don't mean to be critical and Peter understands the market 100x
better than I do, but it 
> seems to me, the Ringer is too expensive to compete with existing
Euro case and rack 
> solutions.  
> 
> Maybe it's competitive for large systems and there's a decent market
for that? 
>  
> 
> --- In PLAN_B_analog_blog@yahoogroups.com, sascha victoria
<sascha.victoria@> 
> wrote:
> >
> > Yeah dude, do the math on a 15u system... thats a pretty sweet deal.
> > 
> > Also, it would be really easy to do something like this. In stead
of the
> > curved sides you put straight lines for each rack. All you'd need
to do is
> > cut the sides, top and front.
> > 
> > 
>
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PLAN_B_analog_blog/photos/album/630816539/pic/20

> 48352879/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=41&count=20&dir=asc
> >
>

Hey...I already make a few products at a loss...I don't have to add
another to that list, do i?


/--- In PLAN_B_analog_blog@yahoogroups.com, "intellijel" <danjel@...>
wrote:
>
> I am dreaming of the day when all the eurorack manufacturers join
> forces to supply a single and ultra affordable case option.
> 
> The motivation? There is not a single modular synth enthusiast on the
> planet that does not get twitchy when there is spare space in their
rack.
> 
> So the cheaper the cases (even if they sell at a loss) will
> universally result in way more module purchases to fill the voids!!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --- In PLAN_B_analog_blog@yahoogroups.com, "laryn91" <caymus91@> wrote:
> >
> > Yeah that is a very cool case design! But if you're now going the
> DIY route, there's even 
> > cheaper solutions. Here's the math "dude" :-)
> > 
> > $390 for 2 Doepfer DIY #2 kits + whatever it costs to make the cool
> Buchla looking case.  
> > $525 + case costs for Ringer solution.
> > 
> > I don't mean to be critical and Peter understands the market 100x
> better than I do, but it 
> > seems to me, the Ringer is too expensive to compete with existing
> Euro case and rack 
> > solutions.  
> > 
> > Maybe it's competitive for large systems and there's a decent market
> for that? 
> >  
> > 
> > --- In PLAN_B_analog_blog@yahoogroups.com, sascha victoria
> <sascha.victoria@> 
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Yeah dude, do the math on a 15u system... thats a pretty sweet deal.
> > > 
> > > Also, it would be really easy to do something like this. In stead
> of the
> > > curved sides you put straight lines for each rack. All you'd need
> to do is
> > > cut the sides, top and front.
> > > 
> > > 
> >
>
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PLAN_B_analog_blog/photos/album/630816539/pic/20

> > 48352879/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=41&count=20&dir=asc
> > >
> >
>

Well every 3U of extra space is potentially 4-8 or more new module
purchases. If the case is sold at a $50 loss (or whatever is needed to
beat all other competitor options) then you could offset that by
increasing prices on all modules that you are selling at a loss. A
cheap case will always lead to more module purchases.

I know it must be a tough equation to balance! 

btw, If assembly costs are high on Plan B stuff it would be awesome if
you offered kit versions of everything.

 
--- In PLAN_B_analog_blog@yahoogroups.com, "(i think you can figure
that out)" <peter@...> wrote:
>
> Hey...I already make a few products at a loss...I don't have to add
> another to that list, do i?
> 
> 
> /--- In PLAN_B_analog_blog@yahoogroups.com, "intellijel" <danjel@>
> wrote:
> >
> > I am dreaming of the day when all the eurorack manufacturers join
> > forces to supply a single and ultra affordable case option.
> > 
> > The motivation? There is not a single modular synth enthusiast on the
> > planet that does not get twitchy when there is spare space in their
> rack.
> > 
> > So the cheaper the cases (even if they sell at a loss) will
> > universally result in way more module purchases to fill the voids!!!!
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > --- In PLAN_B_analog_blog@yahoogroups.com, "laryn91" <caymus91@>
wrote:
> > >
> > > Yeah that is a very cool case design! But if you're now going the
> > DIY route, there's even 
> > > cheaper solutions. Here's the math "dude" :-)
> > > 
> > > $390 for 2 Doepfer DIY #2 kits + whatever it costs to make the cool
> > Buchla looking case.  
> > > $525 + case costs for Ringer solution.
> > > 
> > > I don't mean to be critical and Peter understands the market 100x
> > better than I do, but it 
> > > seems to me, the Ringer is too expensive to compete with existing
> > Euro case and rack 
> > > solutions.  
> > > 
> > > Maybe it's competitive for large systems and there's a decent market
> > for that? 
> > >  
> > > 
> > > --- In PLAN_B_analog_blog@yahoogroups.com, sascha victoria
> > <sascha.victoria@> 
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Yeah dude, do the math on a 15u system... thats a pretty sweet
deal.
> > > > 
> > > > Also, it would be really easy to do something like this. In stead
> > of the
> > > > curved sides you put straight lines for each rack. All you'd need
> > to do is
> > > > cut the sides, top and front.
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > >
> >
>
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PLAN_B_analog_blog/photos/album/630816539/pic/20
> > >
48352879/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=41&count=20&dir=asc

> > > >
> > >
> >
>

Pops?


Please clarify...

if you mean there's no attack, there's trim pot on the module...turn
the decay to zero, the attack to about 1 o' clock and then turn the
trimpot CW until you start noticing the attack.  that should put all
phases it back into calibration.

that is...if pop is what i think you're referring to.

- P



--- In PLAN_B_analog_blog@yahoogroups.com, JOSHUA HOLLEY
<tartarboy@...> wrote:
>
> 
> Hey,
> I just got a M10 (used) and no matter where the attack is it pops.
It's driving me nuts! I revisited a M10 video on youtube and i can
hear pops in the video...is there any way to get rid of the POP! Or is
this something i have to get used to.

> thanks
> Josh
>

Hey,
I just got a M10 (used) and no matter where the attack is it pops. It's driving me nuts! I revisited a M10 video on youtube and i can hear pops in the video...is there any way to get rid of the POP! Or is this something i have to get used to.
thanks
Josh

Dan.

Please take this as a comment only and for exactly it's worth, but it
is not in my intention to knowingly release products at a loss.  That
isn't the way Warren Buffet does it, that ain't the way we're gonna do it.

But for information's sake, the Ringer IS the best priced rack system
for Eurorack, so we're already there!

Our products are ridiculously priced already.  Count the number of
components in the M11, know that four of them cost over $4 each (the
vactrols), and then compare that number to any Euro filter on the
market across all manufacturers outside of the Doepher morphing one
and we will come out waaay on top of that list.  Not in price, but
component count.

Regarding kits:  We can't do that.  My main concern is dilluting our
customer's resale value and kits will kill that. Then there's the
reliability issue.  We can show them how to do it in instructions, but
we can't assume that their level of experience is where it should be
and the products reliability will take that hit.  This calls back to
the part count.  Google MTBF, or Mean Time Between Failure for data
that suggests the number of components on a product are directly
proportionate to it's reliability.





--- In PLAN_B_analog_blog@yahoogroups.com, "intellijel" <danjel@...>
wrote:
>
> Well every 3U of extra space is potentially 4-8 or more new module
> purchases. If the case is sold at a $50 loss (or whatever is needed to
> beat all other competitor options) then you could offset that by
> increasing prices on all modules that you are selling at a loss. A
> cheap case will always lead to more module purchases.
> 
> I know it must be a tough equation to balance! 
> 
> btw, If assembly costs are high on Plan B stuff it would be awesome if
> you offered kit versions of everything.
> 
>  
> --- In PLAN_B_analog_blog@yahoogroups.com, "(i think you can figure
> that out)" <peter@> wrote:
> >
> > Hey...I already make a few products at a loss...I don't have to add
> > another to that list, do i?
> > 
> > 
> > /--- In PLAN_B_analog_blog@yahoogroups.com, "intellijel" <danjel@>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > I am dreaming of the day when all the eurorack manufacturers join
> > > forces to supply a single and ultra affordable case option.
> > > 
> > > The motivation? There is not a single modular synth enthusiast
on the
> > > planet that does not get twitchy when there is spare space in their
> > rack.
> > > 
> > > So the cheaper the cases (even if they sell at a loss) will
> > > universally result in way more module purchases to fill the
voids!!!!
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > --- In PLAN_B_analog_blog@yahoogroups.com, "laryn91" <caymus91@>
> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Yeah that is a very cool case design! But if you're now going the
> > > DIY route, there's even 
> > > > cheaper solutions. Here's the math "dude" :-)
> > > > 
> > > > $390 for 2 Doepfer DIY #2 kits + whatever it costs to make the
cool
> > > Buchla looking case.  
> > > > $525 + case costs for Ringer solution.
> > > > 
> > > > I don't mean to be critical and Peter understands the market 100x
> > > better than I do, but it 
> > > > seems to me, the Ringer is too expensive to compete with existing
> > > Euro case and rack 
> > > > solutions.  
> > > > 
> > > > Maybe it's competitive for large systems and there's a decent
market
> > > for that? 
> > > >  
> > > > 
> > > > --- In PLAN_B_analog_blog@yahoogroups.com, sascha victoria
> > > <sascha.victoria@> 
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Yeah dude, do the math on a 15u system... thats a pretty sweet
> deal.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Also, it would be really easy to do something like this. In
stead
> > > of the
> > > > > curved sides you put straight lines for each rack. All you'd
need
> > > to do is
> > > > > cut the sides, top and front.
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PLAN_B_analog_blog/photos/album/630816539/pic/20

> > > >
> 48352879/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=41&count=20&dir=asc
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

> The best shot I've seen of it so far is the pic at
> http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_xnBKPY_t0YM/SXSwdx-2w9I/AAAAAAAACLA/USYfHGetPbQ/s1600-h/plan-b-ringer-performance-system.jpg
Just wondering...will the final Ringers have the Plan B logo
pre-printed on both ends?  If so, it would be nice to have the option
to get them "blank" since it's very possible these racks will be used
to house Eurorack modules other than Plan B.

I'm a stickler for aesthetics and (for me) that's the one downer on
the Doepfer Monster and A100P cases.  Right now I have an A100P that
is really 95% Plan B and a Monster case that, over time, has become a
mish-mash of modules across 6 different manufacturers.  To me, big
logos on general-use items (like cases) feels a tad bit misleading,
depending on how the item is being used.  Imagine having an Ikea or
Samsung logo on the front of your house!  (unless of course you buy
only Ikea and Samsung products)   :-P

Kindest regards,
John

Not planning on two versions.  We want people to know we made it. It may be a little more understated however in the final version.

- P


--- In PLAN_B_analog_blog@yahoogroups.com, "John V. Talbert"
<jvtalbert@...> wrote:
>
> > The best shot I've seen of it so far is the pic at
> >
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_xnBKPY_t0YM/SXSwdx-2w9I/AAAAAAAACLA/USYfHGetPbQ/s1600-h/plan-b-ringer-performance-system.jpg

> Just wondering...will the final Ringers have the Plan B logo
> pre-printed on both ends?  If so, it would be nice to have the option
> to get them "blank" since it's very possible these racks will be used
> to house Eurorack modules other than Plan B.
> 
> I'm a stickler for aesthetics and (for me) that's the one downer on
> the Doepfer Monster and A100P cases.  Right now I have an A100P that
> is really 95% Plan B and a Monster case that, over time, has become a
> mish-mash of modules across 6 different manufacturers.  To me, big
> logos on general-use items (like cases) feels a tad bit misleading,
> depending on how the item is being used.  Imagine having an Ikea or
> Samsung logo on the front of your house!  (unless of course you buy
> only Ikea and Samsung products)   :-P
> 
> Kindest regards,
> John
>

Oops... my math was in error. It's even worse for the Ringer solution:

$875 for the Ringer 
$390 for the Doepfer



--- In PLAN_B_analog_blog@yahoogroups.com, "laryn91" <caymus91@...> wrote:
>
> Yeah that is a very cool case design! But if you're now going the DIY route, there's even 
> cheaper solutions. Here's the math "dude" :-)
> 
> $390 for 2 Doepfer DIY #2 kits + whatever it costs to make the cool Buchla looking case.  
> $525 + case costs for Ringer solution.
> 
> I don't mean to be critical and Peter understands the market 100x better than I do, but 
it 
> seems to me, the Ringer is too expensive to compete with existing Euro case and rack 
> solutions.  
> 
> Maybe it's competitive for large systems and there's a decent market for that? 
>  
> 
> --- In PLAN_B_analog_blog@yahoogroups.com, sascha victoria <sascha.victoria@> 
> wrote:
> >
> > Yeah dude, do the math on a 15u system... thats a pretty sweet deal.
> > 
> > Also, it would be really easy to do something like this. In stead of the
> > curved sides you put straight lines for each rack. All you'd need to do is
> > cut the sides, top and front.
> > 
> > 
> 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PLAN_B_analog_blog/photos/album/630816539/pic/20

> 48352879/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=41&count=20&dir=asc
> >
>

sorry to be to this thread late.

When are you expecting to announce the price for this? 
And when are you planning on shipping them?

Thanks for making great products at good price point!


Thanks,
Dave

(i think you can figure that out) wrote:

>
> >>But for information's sake, the Ringer IS the best priced rack system
> >>for Eurorack, so we're already there!
>

The Doepfer labels are vinyl stickers.  You can peel them off, they
come off pretty cleanly too..  My G6 suitcases all have them removed
since I have no Doepfer modules in them. Just PlanB, Cwejman and
Livewire.

On Sun, Feb 15, 2009 at 5:08 AM, (i think you can figure that out)
<peter@buzzclick-music.com> wrote:

> Not planning on two versions. We want people to know we made it. It may be a
> little more understated however in the final version.
>
> - P
>
> --- In PLAN_B_analog_blog@yahoogroups.com, "John V. Talbert"
>
> <jvtalbert@...> wrote:
>>
>> > The best shot I've seen of it so far is the pic at
>> >
> http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_xnBKPY_t0YM/SXSwdx-2w9I/AAAAAAAACLA/USYfHGetPbQ/s1600-h/plan-b-ringer-performance-system.jpg
>> Just wondering...will the final Ringers have the Plan B logo
>> pre-printed on both ends? If so, it would be nice to have the option
>> to get them "blank" since it's very possible these racks will be used
>> to house Eurorack modules other than Plan B.
>>
>> I'm a stickler for aesthetics and (for me) that's the one downer on
>> the Doepfer Monster and A100P cases. Right now I have an A100P that
>> is really 95% Plan B and a Monster case that, over time, has become a
>> mish-mash of modules across 6 different manufacturers. To me, big
>> logos on general-use items (like cases) feels a tad bit misleading,
>> depending on how the item is being used. Imagine having an Ikea or
>> Samsung logo on the front of your house! (unless of course you buy
>> only Ikea and Samsung products) :-P
>>
>> Kindest regards,
>> John
>>
>
>

Ah, well.  It didn't hurt to ask.  Thanks, Peter

John


On Sun, Feb 15, 2009 at 8:08 AM, (i think you can figure that out)
<peter@buzzclick-music.com> wrote:

> Not planning on two versions. We want people to know we made it. It may be a
> little more understated however in the final version.
>
> - P
>
> --- In PLAN_B_analog_blog@yahoogroups.com, "John V. Talbert"
>
> <jvtalbert@...> wrote:
>>
>> > The best shot I've seen of it so far is the pic at
>> >
> http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_xnBKPY_t0YM/SXSwdx-2w9I/AAAAAAAACLA/USYfHGetPbQ/s1600-h/plan-b-ringer-performance-system.jpg
>> Just wondering...will the final Ringers have the Plan B logo
>> pre-printed on both ends? If so, it would be nice to have the option
>> to get them "blank"

This isn't a valid argument and your prices are incorrect.

With the Doepfer you get a wallwart powered PSU good for 1.2 amps and inadequate crowbar protection.  You'll need 3 of these to get the same current rating as a single Plan B PSU so adding that together it's (approximately) 3 x $150 for the Ringers $175 for the Plan PSU unit which comes in a self contained aluminum enclosure which requires no do-it-yourselfing.

So for the Plan B equivalent try $625, not $875 and with it you'll get an OEM built Condor power supply with incredible parametric stats and crowbar protection that actually works.  You plug a module in backwards with a condor you're not going to have to return it to the manufacturer for repair. 

The bottom line, Plan B is not in a price war with Doepfer. If the $250 or so Plan B will make as profit on three Ringers and a PSU is unacceptable, then please by all means purchase the other unit.  

- P



--- In PLAN_B_analog_blog@yahoogroups.com, "laryn91" <caymus91@...> wrote:

>
> Oops... my math was in error. It's even worse for the Ringer solution:
> 
> $875 for the Ringer 
> $390 for the Doepfer

Why don't we wait until the ringer gets out there before we start assuming?


On Mon, Feb 16, 2009 at 12:27 PM, (i think you can figure that out)
<peter@buzzclick-music.com> wrote:

> This isn't a valid argument and your prices are incorrect.
>
> With the Doepfer you get a wallwart powered PSU good for 1.2 amps and
> inadequate crowbar protection. You'll need 3 of these to get the same
> current rating as a single Plan B PSU so adding that together it's
> (approximately) 3 x $150 for the Ringers $175 for the Plan PSU unit which
> comes in a self contained aluminum enclosure which requires no
> do-it-yourselfing.
>
> So for the Plan B equivalent try $625, not $875 and with it you'll get an
> OEM built Condor power supply with incredible parametric stats and crowbar
> protection that actually works. You plug a module in backwards with a condor
> you're not going to have to return it to the manufacturer for repair.
>
> The bottom line, Plan B is not in a price war with Doepfer. If the $250 or
> so Plan B will make as profit on three Ringers and a PSU is unacceptable,
> then please by all means purchase the other unit.
>
> - P
>
> --- In PLAN_B_analog_blog@yahoogroups.com, "laryn91" <caymus91@...> wrote:
>>
>> Oops... my math was in error. It's even worse for the Ringer solution:
>>
>> $875 for the Ringer
>> $390 for the Doepfer
>
>

I'm not sure why you're so hostile to user feedback ("please by all means purchase the 
other unit", Adam Henry). I'm just trying to point out that $175 for just a frame is is 
significantly more expensive in most typical customer scenarios. It's not an attack on you 
or your company. 

If you could find a way to bring the price down closer to the $65 dotCom frame, you'd 
probably have a hit. How come Roger can make it for less than half your price?


--- In PLAN_B_analog_blog@yahoogroups.com, "(i think you can figure that out)" 
<peter@...> wrote:
>
> This isn't a valid argument and your prices are incorrect.
> 
> With the Doepfer you get a wallwart powered PSU good for 1.2 amps and inadequate 
crowbar protection.  You'll need 3 of these to get the same current rating as a single Plan 
B PSU so adding that together it's (approximately) 3 x $150 for the Ringers $175 for the 
Plan PSU unit which comes in a self contained aluminum enclosure which requires no do-
it-yourselfing.
> 
> So for the Plan B equivalent try $625, not $875 and with it you'll get an OEM built 
Condor power supply with incredible parametric stats and crowbar protection that actually 
works.  You plug a module in backwards with a condor you're not going to have to return 
it to the manufacturer for repair.
> 
> The bottom line, Plan B is not in a price war with Doepfer. If the $250 or so Plan B will 
make as profit on three Ringers and a PSU is unacceptable, then please by all means 
purchase the other unit.

> 
> - P
> 
> 
> 
> --- In PLAN_B_analog_blog@yahoogroups.com, "laryn91" <caymus91@> wrote:
> >
> > Oops... my math was in error. It's even worse for the Ringer solution:
> >
> > $875 for the Ringer
> > $390 for the Doepfer
>

I'm not intending to be hostile, I'm sorry if it's coming across this
way.  I am being firm however that we will not be releasing products
at a loss and our costs will run more than the $65 you're suggesting.
Further, the prices you posed to make your point were incorrect.  I
think this is important to state.

Remember - the Ringer is not there to compete against the Doepfer DYI
kit ss that is far form a finshed mounting system.  It's there to
extend an affordable alternative to the $460 minimum per row outlay of
the current Eurorack chassis offerings.

As far as feel 'free to buy the other product', this is all I can
suggest because I do not feel that the lowest price wins.  It's the
best price for what is being offered that wins and that's exactly what
we'll be doing.

I think it would be best if we agree to disagree and move on from this topic.

 - P


--- In PLAN_B_analog_blog@yahoogroups.com, "laryn91" <caymus91@...> wrote:
>
> I'm not sure why you're so hostile to user feedback ("please by all
means purchase the 
> other unit", Adam Henry). I'm just trying to point out that $175 for
just a frame is is 
> significantly more expensive in most typical customer scenarios.
It's not an attack on you 
> or your company. 
> 
> If you could find a way to bring the price down closer to the $65
dotCom frame, you'd 
> probably have a hit. How come Roger can make it for less than half
your price?
> 
> 
> --- In PLAN_B_analog_blog@yahoogroups.com, "(i think you can figure
that out)" 
> <peter@> wrote:
> >
> > This isn't a valid argument and your prices are incorrect.
> > 
> > With the Doepfer you get a wallwart powered PSU good for 1.2 amps
and inadequate 
> crowbar protection.  You'll need 3 of these to get the same current
rating as a single Plan 
> B PSU so adding that together it's (approximately) 3 x $150 for the
Ringers $175 for the 
> Plan PSU unit which comes in a self contained aluminum enclosure
which requires no do-
> it-yourselfing.
> > 
> > So for the Plan B equivalent try $625, not $875 and with it you'll
get an OEM built 
> Condor power supply with incredible parametric stats and crowbar
protection that actually 
> works.  You plug a module in backwards with a condor you're not
going to have to return 
> it to the manufacturer for repair.
> > 
> > The bottom line, Plan B is not in a price war with Doepfer. If the
$250 or so Plan B will 
> make as profit on three Ringers and a PSU is unacceptable, then
please by all means 
> purchase the other unit.
> > 
> > - P
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > --- In PLAN_B_analog_blog@yahoogroups.com, "laryn91" <caymus91@>
wrote:
> > >
> > > Oops... my math was in error. It's even worse for the Ringer
solution:

> > >
> > > $875 for the Ringer
> > > $390 for the Doepfer
> >
>

There's no need to argue about prices... nothing speaks louder than
the results. (results of sales/marketing)

:)

I don't think he's being hostile.  He's being cut and dry-- and this is the
best way to be when you're running a business and people are suspect about
price points.  Honestly, we're lucky that Peter is choosing to have an open
discussion about his price points.  He doesn't have to explain himself at
all.  If you don't find it to be a good deal, um, don't buy :-)  

 

<picks up the phone and complains to Quiznos to see why they're not offering
a five dollar footlong like subway>

 

jared

 

-----Original Message-----
From: PLAN_B_analog_blog@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:PLAN_B_analog_blog@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of laryn91
Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 10:56 AM
To: PLAN_B_analog_blog@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PLAN_B_analog_blog] Re: Ringer

 

I'm not sure why you're so hostile to user feedback ("please by all means
purchase the 
other unit", Adam Henry). I'm just trying to point out that $175 for just a
frame is is 
significantly more expensive in most typical customer scenarios. It's not an
attack on you 
or your company. 

If you could find a way to bring the price down closer to the $65 dotCom
frame, you'd 
probably have a hit. How come Roger can make it for less than half your
price?

--- In PLAN_B_analog_ <mailto:PLAN_B_analog_blog%40yahoogroups.com>
blog@yahoogroups.com, "(i think you can figure that out)" 
<peter@...> wrote:
>
> This isn't a valid argument and your prices are incorrect.
> 
> With the Doepfer you get a wallwart powered PSU good for 1.2 amps and
inadequate 
crowbar protection. You'll need 3 of these to get the same current rating as
a single Plan 
B PSU so adding that together it's (approximately) 3 x $150 for the Ringers
$175 for the 
Plan PSU unit which comes in a self contained aluminum enclosure which
requires no do-
it-yourselfing.
> 
> So for the Plan B equivalent try $625, not $875 and with it you'll get an
OEM built 
Condor power supply with incredible parametric stats and crowbar protection
that actually 
works. You plug a module in backwards with a condor you're not going to have
to return 
it to the manufacturer for repair.
> 
> The bottom line, Plan B is not in a price war with Doepfer. If the $250 or
so Plan B will 
make as profit on three Ringers and a PSU is unacceptable, then please by
all means 
purchase the other unit.
> 
> - P
> 
> 
> 
> --- In PLAN_B_analog_ <mailto:PLAN_B_analog_blog%40yahoogroups.com>
blog@yahoogroups.com, "laryn91" <caymus91@> wrote:

> >
> > Oops... my math was in error. It's even worse for the Ringer solution:
> >
> > $875 for the Ringer
> > $390 for the Doepfer
>

> The Doepfer labels are vinyl stickers. You can peel them off, they
> come off pretty cleanly too.. My G6 suitcases all have them removed
> since I have no Doepfer modules in them. Just PlanB, Cwejman and
> Livewire.
Thanks.  Didn't notice they were easily removable stickers (I always
thought they were laquered on).

John

OMFG people... please!

could you waste your time making music with your modular synth instead of whining over 
speculations on a freakin' frame?

g.

--- In PLAN_B_analog_blog@yahoogroups.com, "(i think you can figure that out)" 
<peter@...> wrote:

>
> I'm not intending to be hostile, I'm sorry if it's coming across this
> way.  I am being firm however that we will not be releasing products
> at a loss and our costs will run more than the $65 you're suggesting.
> Further, the prices you posed to make your point were incorrect.  I
> think this is important to state.
> 
> Remember - the Ringer is not there to compete against the Doepfer DYI
> kit ss that is far form a finshed mounting system.  It's there to
> extend an affordable alternative to the $460 minimum per row outlay of
> the current Eurorack chassis offerings.
> 
> As far as feel 'free to buy the other product', this is all I can
> suggest because I do not feel that the lowest price wins.  It's the
> best price for what is being offered that wins and that's exactly what
> we'll be doing.
> 
> I think it would be best if we agree to disagree and move on from this topic.
> 
>  - P
> 
> 
> --- In PLAN_B_analog_blog@yahoogroups.com, "laryn91" <caymus91@> wrote:
> >
> > I'm not sure why you're so hostile to user feedback ("please by all
> means purchase the
> > other unit", Adam Henry). I'm just trying to point out that $175 for
> just a frame is is
> > significantly more expensive in most typical customer scenarios.
> It's not an attack on you
> > or your company.
> >
> > If you could find a way to bring the price down closer to the $65
> dotCom frame, you'd
> > probably have a hit. How come Roger can make it for less than half
> your price?
> >
> >
> > --- In PLAN_B_analog_blog@yahoogroups.com, "(i think you can figure
> that out)"
> > <peter@> wrote:
> > >
> > > This isn't a valid argument and your prices are incorrect.
> > >
> > > With the Doepfer you get a wallwart powered PSU good for 1.2 amps
> and inadequate
> > crowbar protection.  You'll need 3 of these to get the same current
> rating as a single Plan
> > B PSU so adding that together it's (approximately) 3 x $150 for the
> Ringers $175 for the
> > Plan PSU unit which comes in a self contained aluminum enclosure
> which requires no do-
> > it-yourselfing.
> > >
> > > So for the Plan B equivalent try $625, not $875 and with it you'll
> get an OEM built
> > Condor power supply with incredible parametric stats and crowbar
> protection that actually
> > works.  You plug a module in backwards with a condor you're not
> going to have to return
> > it to the manufacturer for repair.
> > >
> > > The bottom line, Plan B is not in a price war with Doepfer. If the
> $250 or so Plan B will
> > make as profit on three Ringers and a PSU is unacceptable, then
> please by all means
> > purchase the other unit.
> > >
> > > - P
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In PLAN_B_analog_blog@yahoogroups.com, "laryn91" <caymus91@>
> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Oops... my math was in error. It's even worse for the Ringer
> solution:
> > > >
> > > > $875 for the Ringer
> > > > $390 for the Doepfer
> > >
> >
>

>"laryn91" <caymus91@...> wrote:
>If you could find a way to bring the price down closer to the $65 >dotCom frame, you'd probably have a hit. How come Roger can make it >for less than half your price?

Hi,

That is easily answered.

First, Roger's main business is not synthesizers; it's robotics. (See www.arrickrobotics.com ) You'll notice in that business Roger is dealing with the manufacture of many! aluminum parts. He therefore has history, volume and competency in this specific mfg. area, which he is fortunate to be able to cross-over to his synthesizers.com "hobby" business.

Next, the dotcom screw spacing is both sparse and fixed. Euro is neither! These euro extrusions (and nutplates, if used) add greatly to the cost of providing a frame-based mounting system. (Compare also the Blacet Frac setup to see how a similar sparse and fixed spacing format saves money. 

Finally, the addition of "AH" (as if it were in his original reply) was IMO not cool.

Kind regards, Randal