PLAN B analog blog

Hi guys.

I've found a change which significantly improves the amount of bleed
across the A/B channels on the Model 9 Mixer.  I'll be happy to post
it (it's a snap), but you guys gotta promise me it's not going to end
up on some blog somewhere that we release goods with known defects or
some such nonsense.  Trust me, it's happened.  It doesn't happen when
other manufacturers post these types of things...but it does with us.

I've obviously had it 'up to here' with Plan B blog bashing.

So, before I do this...we gotta deal?

- P

Due to the fact that the Model 1 connects to either a Deopfer,
Analogue Solutions or Analogue Systems power buss, any improvement it
could bring to quell ground noise gets washed out with those buss
board's daisy chained grounds.

- 




--- In PLAN_B_analog_blog@yahoogroups.com, "Don Kim" <dkimcg@...> wrote:

>
> Does the PlanB power rail prevent this?  I've never had any cross talk
> problems, but both my M15s are on the PlanB power board.  They're the
> only two oscillators in that case.  I haven't had any crosstalk
> problems at all.with the M15 or AFG which is the only oscillator on
> it's bus too, or any other oscillators.  Occationally I have a little
> weirdness when multing something, but the buffered mult seems to have
> solved that problem for me.
> 
> 
> 
> On Sat, Dec 6, 2008 at 9:54 AM, (i think you can figure that out)
> <peter@...> wrote:
> > Hi guys.
> >
> > I've found a change which significantly improves the amount of bleed
> > across the A/B channels on the Model 9 Mixer. I'll be happy to post
> > it (it's a snap), but you guys gotta promise me it's not going to end
> > up on some blog somewhere that we release goods with known defects or
> > some such nonsense. Trust me, it's happened. It doesn't happen when
> > other manufacturers post these types of things...but it does with us.
> >
> > I've obviously had it 'up to here' with Plan B blog bashing.
> >
> > So, before I do this...we gotta deal?
> >
> > - P
> >
> >
>

Does the PlanB power rail prevent this?  I've never had any cross talk
problems, but both my M15s are on the PlanB power board.  They're the
only two oscillators in that case.  I haven't had any crosstalk
problems at all.with the M15 or AFG which is the only oscillator on
it's bus too, or any other oscillators.  Occationally I have a little
weirdness when multing something, but the buffered mult seems to have
solved that problem for me.



On Sat, Dec 6, 2008 at 9:54 AM, (i think you can figure that out)
<peter@buzzclick-music.com> wrote:

> Hi guys.
>
> I've found a change which significantly improves the amount of bleed
> across the A/B channels on the Model 9 Mixer. I'll be happy to post
> it (it's a snap), but you guys gotta promise me it's not going to end
> up on some blog somewhere that we release goods with known defects or
> some such nonsense. Trust me, it's happened. It doesn't happen when
> other manufacturers post these types of things...but it does with us.
>
> I've obviously had it 'up to here' with Plan B blog bashing.
>
> So, before I do this...we gotta deal?
>
> - P
>
>

Oops, wrong crosstalk.  hehe

But I haven't noticed any bleed on the m9, but I usually use it before
a gate or vca, so I guess I wouldn't.

On Sat, Dec 6, 2008 at 10:07 AM, Don Kim <dkimcg@gmail.com> wrote:
> Does the PlanB power rail prevent this?  I've never had any cross talk
> problems, but both my M15s are on the PlanB power board.  They're the
> only two oscillators in that case.  I haven't had any crosstalk
> problems at all.with the M15 or AFG which is the only oscillator on
> it's bus too, or any other oscillators.  Occationally I have a little
> weirdness when multing something, but the buffered mult seems to have
> solved that problem for me.
>
>
>
> On Sat, Dec 6, 2008 at 9:54 AM, (i think you can figure that out)
> <peter@buzzclick-music.com> wrote:
>> Hi guys.
>>
>> I've found a change which significantly improves the amount of bleed
>> across the A/B channels on the Model 9 Mixer. I'll be happy to post
>> it (it's a snap), but you guys gotta promise me it's not going to end
>> up on some blog somewhere that we release goods with known defects or
>> some such nonsense. Trust me, it's happened. It doesn't happen when
>> other manufacturers post these types of things...but it does with us.
>>
>> I've obviously had it 'up to here' with Plan B blog bashing.
>>
>> So, before I do this...we gotta deal?
>>
>> - P
>>
>> 
>

Hi Peter

Well I for one would be interested in knowing about this mod and duly
promise not to bitch about it.

FYI - I'm a new customer and this is my first post here, I just wanted
you to know that the overall impression I get 'out there' regarding
Plan B is positive.

I've spent the last year deciding that I wanted to go down the Plan B
route and ordered my first few modules a couple of weeks ago
(including a Model 9). The negative things that I've come across
during this period have indeed made me stop and rethink several times
but I'm happily aboard and confident that all those stamps, boxes and
the QC process will deliver me sonic bliss.... 

Keith




--- In PLAN_B_analog_blog@yahoogroups.com, "(i think you can figure
that out)" <peter@...> wrote:

>
> Hi guys.
> 
> I've found a change which significantly improves the amount of bleed
> across the A/B channels on the Model 9 Mixer.  I'll be happy to post
> it (it's a snap), but you guys gotta promise me it's not going to end
> up on some blog somewhere that we release goods with known defects or
> some such nonsense.  Trust me, it's happened.  It doesn't happen when
> other manufacturers post these types of things...but it does with us.
> 
> I've obviously had it 'up to here' with Plan B blog bashing.
> 
> So, before I do this...we gotta deal?
> 
> - P
>

I would love that mod Peter. Pinky swear! ;)

--- In PLAN_B_analog_blog@yahoogroups.com, "(i think you can figure that out)" 
<peter@...> wrote:

>
> Hi guys.
> 
> I've found a change which significantly improves the amount of bleed
> across the A/B channels on the Model 9 Mixer.  I'll be happy to post
> it (it's a snap), but you guys gotta promise me it's not going to end
> up on some blog somewhere that we release goods with known defects or
> some such nonsense.  Trust me, it's happened.  It doesn't happen when
> other manufacturers post these types of things...but it does with us.
> 
> I've obviously had it 'up to here' with Plan B blog bashing.
> 
> So, before I do this...we gotta deal?
> 
> - P
>

Hello to everyone.

This is an easy fix.  On each of the two ICs on the M9 (one a TLO74,
One a TLO72), you will find two small blue capacitors flanking those
components which are unmarked (meaning there is no C number - as in
C1, C2, etc. - designator).

SO two per IC for a total of 4 caps.

On the M9 all four of those guys are by the edges of the PCB.  There
are a few other small blue caps on the board, but those have
designator numbers and are in the pf range, somewhere around 22pf (I'm
at my g/f's place, not around my schematic reference or system, please
pardon my 52 year old memory).  These shouldn't be changed. They
merely kill potential oscillation in the feedback loops of the gain
buffers (wouldn't ya know it, hardest thing in analog is to get a
oscillator to do it's thing properly, yet it will happen all over the
place were you don't want it so you have to through components to it
to stop that from happening).

Until quite recently those four caps were .01 uf, marked "103" on the
cap itself. They need to be removed and replaced with .1 mf, which is
marked "104".

That's it. Not that bad, five minute job and will cut the crosstalk
down a lot.  We've been shipping the m9 with this new part since this
was discovered about a month or so ago and are now using .1's on all
of our modules.

For a reference of how to read the value of small capacitors, see this:

http://www.electronics2000.co.uk/data/itemsaf/capconv.php

CAPS are marked with the Picofarad value.  A .01 microfarad is 10,000
pf - their marking reads 103, which visually must be read as 10 plus
3, meaning three extra zero's after the initial 10 (10,000).  .01's = 100,000pf or 10 plus 4 - four extra zeros after the 10.






--- In PLAN_B_analog_blog@yahoogroups.com, "murphybrandon87"
<murphybrandon87@...> wrote:
>
> I would love that mod Peter. Pinky swear! ;)
> 
> --- In PLAN_B_analog_blog@yahoogroups.com, "(i think you can figure
that out)" 

> <peter@> wrote:
> >
> > Hi guys.
> > 
> > I've found a change which significantly improves the amount of bleed
> > across the A/B channels on the Model 9 Mixer.  I'll be happy to post
> > it (it's a snap), but you guys gotta promise me it's not going to end
> > up on some blog somewhere that we release goods with known defects or
> > some such nonsense.  Trust me, it's happened.  It doesn't happen when
> > other manufacturers post these types of things...but it does with us.
> > 
> > I've obviously had it 'up to here' with Plan B blog bashing.
> > 
> > So, before I do this...we gotta deal?
> > 
> > - P
> >
>

Ok i finally had the chance to try this modifcation out, and it works
like a charm!

Thanks for the easy fix peter!


--- In PLAN_B_analog_blog@yahoogroups.com, "(i think you can figure
that out)" <peter@...> wrote:
>
> Hello to everyone.
> 
> This is an easy fix.  On each of the two ICs on the M9 (one a TLO74,
> One a TLO72), you will find two small blue capacitors flanking those
> components which are unmarked (meaning there is no C number - as in
> C1, C2, etc. - designator).
> 
> SO two per IC for a total of 4 caps.
> 
> On the M9 all four of those guys are by the edges of the PCB.  There
> are a few other small blue caps on the board, but those have
> designator numbers and are in the pf range, somewhere around 22pf (I'm
> at my g/f's place, not around my schematic reference or system, please
> pardon my 52 year old memory).  These shouldn't be changed. They
> merely kill potential oscillation in the feedback loops of the gain
> buffers (wouldn't ya know it, hardest thing in analog is to get a
> oscillator to do it's thing properly, yet it will happen all over the
> place were you don't want it so you have to through components to it
> to stop that from happening).
> 
> Until quite recently those four caps were .01 uf, marked "103" on the
> cap itself. They need to be removed and replaced with .1 mf, which is
> marked "104".
> 
> That's it. Not that bad, five minute job and will cut the crosstalk
> down a lot.  We've been shipping the m9 with this new part since this
> was discovered about a month or so ago and are now using .1's on all
> of our modules.
> 
> For a reference of how to read the value of small capacitors, see this:
> 
> http://www.electronics2000.co.uk/data/itemsaf/capconv.php
> 
> CAPS are marked with the Picofarad value.  A .01 microfarad is 10,000
> pf - their marking reads 103, which visually must be read as 10 plus
> 3, meaning three extra zero's after the initial 10 (10,000).  .01's
= 100,000pf or 10 plus 4 - four extra zeros after the 10.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --- In PLAN_B_analog_blog@yahoogroups.com, "murphybrandon87"
> <murphybrandon87@> wrote:
> >
> > I would love that mod Peter. Pinky swear! ;)
> >
> > --- In PLAN_B_analog_blog@yahoogroups.com, "(i think you can figure
> that out)"
> > <peter@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi guys.
> > >
> > > I've found a change which significantly improves the amount of bleed
> > > across the A/B channels on the Model 9 Mixer.  I'll be happy to post
> > > it (it's a snap), but you guys gotta promise me it's not going
to end
> > > up on some blog somewhere that we release goods with known
defects or
> > > some such nonsense.  Trust me, it's happened.  It doesn't happen
when
> > > other manufacturers post these types of things...but it does
with us.

> > >
> > > I've obviously had it 'up to here' with Plan B blog bashing.
> > >
> > > So, before I do this...we gotta deal?
> > >
> > > - P
> > >
> >
>