Mellotronists

The LP has heated VCO's.  When cold, the tuning is about half a 
semitone low.  The recomended warm up period is 15 minutes.  After the 
warm up and tuning, the fine tuning knob is at the center position.  
No surprises.  

Did the original minimoog model D need a 15 minute warm up?

Clay

On Wed, 29 Nov 2006, ceccles_ca wrote:

> The LP has heated VCO's.  When cold, the tuning is about half a
> semitone low.  The recomended warm up period is 15 minutes.  After the
> warm up and tuning, the fine tuning knob is at the center position.
> No surprises.
>
> Did the original minimoog model D need a 15 minute warm up?


i always give mine at LEAST 30 mins to stabilize.
[same goes for my prodigy, and my source needs at
least 15 mins to be REALLY stable...]

so... yeah.
it did.

...jeff


> Clay

I have a mid period unit and warmup is about 5 minutes. The arp, on the other, hand starts up perfect.
 
 fd

 -----Original Message-----
 From: ecclesreinson@...
 To: Mellotronists@yahoogroups.com
 Sent: Wed, 29 Nov 2006 12:05 PM
 Subject: [Mellotronists] Moog LP tuning
 
     The LP has heated VCO's. When cold, the tuning is about half a 
 semitone low. The recomended warm up period is 15 minutes. After the 
 warm up and tuning, the fine tuning knob is at the center position. 
 No surprises. 
 
 Did the original minimoog model D need a 15 minute warm up?
 
 Clay
 
      
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----- Original Message ----- 

From: "ceccles_ca" <ecclesreinson@...>
To: <Mellotronists@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2006 5:05 PM
Subject: [Mellotronists] Moog LP tuning


> The LP has heated VCO's.  When cold, the tuning is about half a
> semitone low.  The recomended warm up period is 15 minutes.  After the
> warm up and tuning, the fine tuning knob is at the center position.
> No surprises.
>
> Did the original minimoog model D need a 15 minute warm up?
>
> Clay

Sometimes mine is in tune immediately and holds it for hours. Sometimes it 
slips and slides like you wouldn't believe and never settles down. This is 
why I eventually bought a guitar pedal tuner and put it in-line between Mini 
and mixer, using the 'output off when on' jack out so's I can retune on the 
fly. I know the later models (S/N 10,000 and up?) are more stable, but I 
wouldn't swap mine for anything. That's analogue synths for you.

Andy T.

>
>  -----Original Message-----
>  From: ecclesreinson@...
>  To: Mellotronists@yahoogroups.com
>  Sent: Wed, 29 Nov 2006 12:05 PM
>  Subject: [Mellotronists] Moog LP tuning
>
>
>  Did the original minimoog model D need a 15 minute warm up?
>
>  Clay

About an hour to be stable!..... Actually, 15 mins was about right. The 
Prodigy was the same. "Heated Chip Technology" Norlin called it!  When 
you switched the Prodigy on, the pitch would slowly rise for about a 
minute, then swoop down and lock on to onto pitch, and that was 
supposed to be in tune. In reality, pitch drifted for a good 15 minutes 
after the moment of 'locking', but after that was relatively stable.

Our Model D wanders around for a bit then is as solid as a rock, 
although whether that's a Moog characteristic, or a Norm tweak, I have 
no idea!

Cx

http://www.s-club.co.uk
        Sundae Club*
         PO Box 862
         Cheltenham
           GL52 2XT

According to Keyboard Magazine around 1993 (a feature on Emmo's 
modular Moog restoration) tuning drift was caused by variations in 
the power supply -obviously as everything's voltage controlled. When 
Keith's modular system was fitted with modern stabilised power 
supplies 'the oscillators just went at attention'. Which I presume 
means that they stayed right on the money for tuning.
I'm guessing that the later Minis would have been fitted with a more 
stable PSU, hence the improved tuning.
Anyone want to enlarge or correct me on this?

Best wishes,
Dave.

>
>Sometimes mine is in tune immediately and holds it for hours. Sometimes it
>slips and slides like you wouldn't believe and never settles down. This is
>why I eventually bought a guitar pedal tuner and put it in-line between Mini
>and mixer, using the 'output off when on' jack out so's I can retune on the
>fly. I know the later models (S/N 10,000 and up?) are more stable, but I
>wouldn't swap mine for anything. That's analogue synths for you.
>
>Andy T.

In a message dated 30/11/2006 09:38:01 GMT Standard Time,  
d.etheridge1@... writes:

Anyone  want to enlarge or correct me on this?



Is this a sexual offer?
 
M
 
STREETLY ELECTRONICS - All Things Mellotronic

_www.mellotronics.co.uk_ (http://www.mellotronics.co.uk/) 
_www.mellotronics.com_ (http://www.mellotronics.com/) 
US  East Coast Agent - Jimmy Moore _jmoore6397@..._ 
(http://jmoore6397@.../) 
US West  Coast Agent - Paul Cox _pjc56@..._ 
(http://pjc56@.../)

>In a message dated 30/11/2006 09:38:01 GMT Standard Time, 
>d.etheridge1@... writes:
>
>Anyone want to enlarge or correct me on this?
>
>Is this a sexual offer?
>
>M

Obviously business is very slow today...............................

Actually, the biggest tuning problem with early Mini's
was pot jitter. Improved later.

Mark.
--- "d.etheridge1@..."
<d.etheridge1@...> wrote:

> According to Keyboard Magazine around 1993 (a
> feature on Emmo's 
> modular Moog restoration) tuning drift was caused by
> variations in 
> the power supply -obviously as everything's voltage
> controlled. When 
> Keith's modular system was fitted with modern
> stabilised power 
> supplies 'the oscillators just went at attention'.
> Which I presume 
> means that they stayed right on the money for
> tuning.
> I'm guessing that the later Minis would have been
> fitted with a more 
> stable PSU, hence the improved tuning.
> Anyone want to enlarge or correct me on this?
> 
> Best wishes,
> Dave.
> 
> >
> >Sometimes mine is in tune immediately and holds it
> for hours. Sometimes it
> >slips and slides like you wouldn't believe and
> never settles down. This is
> >why I eventually bought a guitar pedal tuner and
> put it in-line between Mini
> >and mixer, using the 'output off when on' jack out
> so's I can retune on the
> >fly. I know the later models (S/N 10,000 and up?)
> are more stable, but I
> >wouldn't swap mine for anything. That's analogue
> synths for you.
> >
> >Andy T.
> 



 
____________________________________________________________________________________
Yahoo! Music Unlimited
Access over 1 million songs.
http://music.yahoo.com/unlimited

On Thu, 30 Nov 2006, mark kasian wrote:

> Actually, the biggest tuning problem with early Mini's
> was pot jitter. Improved later.


pot jitter?
yeah - it's a LOT stronger then it was back in the 70s.
so i hear.

i don't do that no more.
really.
i don't.
listen, i'll pee in a cup if you want me too.
wait... that's not a good idea on THIS list.
oh nevermind...



> Mark.



...jeff

Power supply stability certainly does assure that tuning is stable as
well. The big Moog had rather dirty DC due to the large distribution
harness, so 'lytics spread about the harness terminal strips cleaned
things up greatly.

 

The first and second incarnations of the mini VCO card had tempco
resistors in the exponential converters to keep the scale (volts per
octave) from changing grossly with temperature. Without tempcos, the
unit wouldn't be practical (the reason that the Moog 951 keyboard has a
"Scale" knob, for the old 901's). But other parts of the circuit are
also affected by temperature so until everything evens out over a few
minutes, there will be some pitch drift. The third incarnation of the
mini VCO used ua726 transistor pairs for the exponential converters,
which have an internal heater that takes the chip die up over the
ambient temp and stays there. They come up to temp pretty quickly. The
rest of the parts are tighter spec'd than the early cards also so
typically a mini with s/n 10,000 or higher will be in tune within a
matter of seconds and stay there. You can tell the incarnation by the
bend/mod wheels and front panel:

 

First version - clear wheels, metal front panel, small lettering, full
markings around all knobs

Second version - smooth white wheels, plastic front panel, larger
lettering, partial markings around all knobs

Third version - ribbed white wheels, plastic front panel, larger
lettering, partial markings around all knobs

 

The PSU's are the same on all, but the PSU caps deteriorate over time so
all units will vary depending on this. I've taken a PSU out of a stable
unit and moved it to a less stable unit, the the stability followed the
PSU. The difference was not so much the tuning drift, but rather the
purity of the VCO tone (the amount of tiny warble). I suspect the amount
of drift is due to loose tolerances in the VCO components. Old resistors
and caps have higher temperature susceptibility than newer parts. Carbon
resistors are bad, metal films are good, and newer machines had better
resistors as the suppliers improved their parts. But minis are prone to
board swapping, so many machines have a mix of old and new.

 

The Micro and Multimoogs used CA3046 transistor arrays for the
exponential converters, and spare trannys in the chip are used as
heaters for the same effect. However it takes longer for these units to
come up to temp than the 726-equipped minis, something like five
minutes. After that they're dead on. I think the Moog 921's used the
same trick.

 

But back to Mellotrons... let's see, need to find something relevant to
the list... OK, I just got back #1213 which was on loan to Ryo Okumoto
for the new Spock's Beard album (along with my Pro Soloist). Tapes used
were Ian flutes, Sad Strings, and Russian Choir. He told me that he used
the Pro Solost all over the place too.

 

- Gene

 

 

________________________________

From: Mellotronists@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:Mellotronists@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
d.etheridge1@...
Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2006 1:24 AM
To: Mellotronists@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Mellotronists] Moog LP tuning

 

According to Keyboard Magazine around 1993 (a feature on Emmo's 
modular Moog restoration) tuning drift was caused by variations in 
the power supply -obviously as everything's voltage controlled. When 
Keith's modular system was fitted with modern stabilised power 
supplies 'the oscillators just went at attention'. Which I presume 
means that they stayed right on the money for tuning.
I'm guessing that the later Minis would have been fitted with a more 
stable PSU, hence the improved tuning.
Anyone want to enlarge or correct me on this?

Best wishes,
Dave.

>
>Sometimes mine is in tune immediately and holds it for hours. Sometimes
it
>slips and slides like you wouldn't believe and never settles down. This
is
>why I eventually bought a guitar pedal tuner and put it in-line between
Mini
>and mixer, using the 'output off when on' jack out so's I can retune on
the
>fly. I know the later models (S/N 10,000 and up?) are more stable, but
I

>wouldn't swap mine for anything. That's analogue synths for you.
>
>Andy T.

In a message dated 29/11/2006 17:15:17 GMT Standard Time,  
ecclesreinson@... writes:

Did the  original minimoog model D need a 15 minute warm up?


After 10175 they fitted the heated VCOs, so the warm up time applies to  them 
too...
 
Norm

In a message dated 11/30/2006 6:59:27 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
NormLeete@... writes:

After 10175 they fitted the heated VCOs, so the warm up time applies to  them 
too...
 
Norm



HE LIVES!!!!!!!
 
Haven't seen you here in a while, Norm. Glad you're back (unless I've been  
sleeping and have missed your posts, in which case I take my previous statement 
 back and instead say, I'm glad you're still here with us!!!)  

Frank Stickle

Brian Kehew.


 
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No shit! 

 -----Original Message-----
 From: easle12@...
 To: Mellotronists@yahoogroups.com
 Sent: Fri, 1 Dec 2006 4:50 PM
 Subject: Re: [Mellotronists] And the winner of the auction MkII is:
 
     
 Brian Kehew.
 
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