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Moog LP tuning

Moog LP tuning

2006-11-29 by ceccles_ca

The LP has heated VCO's. When cold, the tuning is about half a
semitone low. The recomended warm up period is 15 minutes. After the
warm up and tuning, the fine tuning knob is at the center position.
No surprises.

Did the original minimoog model D need a 15 minute warm up?

Clay

Re: [Mellotronists] Moog LP tuning

2006-11-29 by jeffc@netaxs.com

On Wed, 29 Nov 2006, ceccles_ca wrote:

> The LP has heated VCO's. When cold, the tuning is about half a
> semitone low. The recomended warm up period is 15 minutes. After the
> warm up and tuning, the fine tuning knob is at the center position.
> No surprises.
>
> Did the original minimoog model D need a 15 minute warm up?


i always give mine at LEAST 30 mins to stabilize.
[same goes for my prodigy, and my source needs at
least 15 mins to be REALLY stable...]

so... yeah.
it did.

...jeff


Show quoted textHide quoted text
> Clay

Re: [Mellotronists] Moog LP tuning

2006-11-30 by fdoddy@aol.com

I have a mid period unit and warmup is about 5 minutes. The arp, on the other, hand starts up perfect.

fd

-----Original Message-----
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: ecclesreinson@...
To: Mellotronists@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wed, 29 Nov 2006 12:05 PM
Subject: [Mellotronists] Moog LP tuning

The LP has heated VCO's. When cold, the tuning is about half a
semitone low. The recomended warm up period is 15 minutes. After the
warm up and tuning, the fine tuning knob is at the center position.
No surprises.

Did the original minimoog model D need a 15 minute warm up?

Clay

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Re: [Mellotronists] Moog LP tuning

2006-11-30 by Andy Thompson

----- Original Message -----
From: "ceccles_ca" <ecclesreinson@...>
To: <Mellotronists@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2006 5:05 PM
Subject: [Mellotronists] Moog LP tuning


> The LP has heated VCO's. When cold, the tuning is about half a
> semitone low. The recomended warm up period is 15 minutes. After the
> warm up and tuning, the fine tuning knob is at the center position.
> No surprises.
>
> Did the original minimoog model D need a 15 minute warm up?
>
> Clay

Sometimes mine is in tune immediately and holds it for hours. Sometimes it
slips and slides like you wouldn't believe and never settles down. This is
why I eventually bought a guitar pedal tuner and put it in-line between Mini
and mixer, using the 'output off when on' jack out so's I can retune on the
fly. I know the later models (S/N 10,000 and up?) are more stable, but I
wouldn't swap mine for anything. That's analogue synths for you.

Andy T.

Re: [Mellotronists] Moog LP tuning

2006-11-30 by Colin Crawford

>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ecclesreinson@...
> To: Mellotronists@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wed, 29 Nov 2006 12:05 PM
> Subject: [Mellotronists] Moog LP tuning
>
>
> Did the original minimoog model D need a 15 minute warm up?
>
> Clay

About an hour to be stable!..... Actually, 15 mins was about right. The
Prodigy was the same. "Heated Chip Technology" Norlin called it! When
you switched the Prodigy on, the pitch would slowly rise for about a
minute, then swoop down and lock on to onto pitch, and that was
supposed to be in tune. In reality, pitch drifted for a good 15 minutes
after the moment of 'locking', but after that was relatively stable.

Our Model D wanders around for a bit then is as solid as a rock,
although whether that's a Moog characteristic, or a Norm tweak, I have
no idea!

Cx

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Sundae Club*
PO Box 862
Cheltenham
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Re: [Mellotronists] Moog LP tuning

2006-11-30 by d.etheridge1@ntlworld.com

According to Keyboard Magazine around 1993 (a feature on Emmo's
modular Moog restoration) tuning drift was caused by variations in
the power supply -obviously as everything's voltage controlled. When
Keith's modular system was fitted with modern stabilised power
supplies 'the oscillators just went at attention'. Which I presume
means that they stayed right on the money for tuning.
I'm guessing that the later Minis would have been fitted with a more
stable PSU, hence the improved tuning.
Anyone want to enlarge or correct me on this?

Best wishes,
Dave.

Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
>Sometimes mine is in tune immediately and holds it for hours. Sometimes it
>slips and slides like you wouldn't believe and never settles down. This is
>why I eventually bought a guitar pedal tuner and put it in-line between Mini
>and mixer, using the 'output off when on' jack out so's I can retune on the
>fly. I know the later models (S/N 10,000 and up?) are more stable, but I
>wouldn't swap mine for anything. That's analogue synths for you.
>
>Andy T.

Re: [Mellotronists] Moog LP tuning

2006-11-30 by d.etheridge1@ntlworld.com

In a message dated 30/11/2006 09:38:01 GMT Standard Time, d.etheridge1@... writes:
Anyone want to enlarge or correct me on this?
Is this a sexual offer?
M

Obviously business is very slow today...............................

Re: [Mellotronists] Moog LP tuning

2006-11-30 by mark kasian

Actually, the biggest tuning problem with early Mini's
was pot jitter. Improved later.

Mark.
--- "d.etheridge1@..."
<d.etheridge1@...> wrote:

> According to Keyboard Magazine around 1993 (a
> feature on Emmo's
> modular Moog restoration) tuning drift was caused by
> variations in
> the power supply -obviously as everything's voltage
> controlled. When
> Keith's modular system was fitted with modern
> stabilised power
> supplies 'the oscillators just went at attention'.
> Which I presume
> means that they stayed right on the money for
> tuning.
> I'm guessing that the later Minis would have been
> fitted with a more
> stable PSU, hence the improved tuning.
> Anyone want to enlarge or correct me on this?
>
> Best wishes,
> Dave.
>
> >
> >Sometimes mine is in tune immediately and holds it
> for hours. Sometimes it
> >slips and slides like you wouldn't believe and
> never settles down. This is
> >why I eventually bought a guitar pedal tuner and
> put it in-line between Mini
> >and mixer, using the 'output off when on' jack out
> so's I can retune on the
> >fly. I know the later models (S/N 10,000 and up?)
> are more stable, but I
> >wouldn't swap mine for anything. That's analogue
> synths for you.
> >
> >Andy T.
>




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Re: [Mellotronists] Moog LP tuning

2006-11-30 by jeffc@netaxs.com

On Thu, 30 Nov 2006, mark kasian wrote:

> Actually, the biggest tuning problem with early Mini's
> was pot jitter. Improved later.


pot jitter?
yeah - it's a LOT stronger then it was back in the 70s.
so i hear.

i don't do that no more.
really.
i don't.
listen, i'll pee in a cup if you want me too.
wait... that's not a good idea on THIS list.
oh nevermind...



Show quoted textHide quoted text
> Mark.



...jeff

RE: [Mellotronists] Moog LP tuning

2006-11-30 by Gene Stopp

Power supply stability certainly does assure that tuning is stable as well. The big Moog had rather dirty DC due to the large distribution harness, so ‘lytics spread about the harness terminal strips cleaned things up greatly.

The first and second incarnations of the mini VCO card had tempco resistors in the exponential converters to keep the scale (volts per octave) from changing grossly with temperature. Without tempcos, the unit wouldn’t be practical (the reason that the Moog 951 keyboard has a “Scale” knob, for the old 901’s). But other parts of the circuit are also affected by temperature so until everything evens out over a few minutes, there will be some pitch drift. The third incarnation of the mini VCO used ua726 transistor pairs for the exponential converters, which have an internal heater that takes the chip die up over the ambient temp and stays there. They come up to temp pretty quickly. The rest of the parts are tighter spec’d than the early cards also so typically a mini with s/n 10,000 or higher will be in tune within a matter of seconds and stay there. You can tell the incarnation by the bend/mod wheels and front panel:

First version – clear wheels, metal front panel, small lettering, full markings around all knobs

Second version – smooth white wheels, plastic front panel, larger lettering, partial markings around all knobs

Third version – ribbed white wheels, plastic front panel, larger lettering, partial markings around all knobs

The PSU’s are the same on all, but the PSU caps deteriorate over time so all units will vary depending on this. I’ve taken a PSU out of a stable unit and moved it to a less stable unit, the the stability followed the PSU. The difference was not so much the tuning drift, but rather the purity of the VCO tone (the amount of tiny warble). I suspect the amount of drift is due to loose tolerances in the VCO components. Old resistors and caps have higher temperature susceptibility than newer parts. Carbon resistors are bad, metal films are good, and newer machines had better resistors as the suppliers improved their parts. But minis are prone to board swapping, so many machines have a mix of old and new.

The Micro and Multimoogs used CA3046 transistor arrays for the exponential converters, and spare trannys in the chip are used as heaters for the same effect. However it takes longer for these units to come up to temp than the 726-equipped minis, something like five minutes. After that they’re dead on. I think the Moog 921’s used the same trick.

But back to Mellotrons… let’s see, need to find something relevant to the list… OK, I just got back #1213 which was on loan to Ryo Okumoto for the new Spock’s Beard album (along with my Pro Soloist). Tapes used were Ian flutes, Sad Strings, and Russian Choir. He told me that he used the Pro Solost all over the place too.

- Gene

From: Mellotronists@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Mellotronists@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of d.etheridge1@...
Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2006 1:24 AM
To: Mellotronists@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Mellotronists] Moog LP tuning

According to Keyboard Magazine around 1993 (a feature on Emmo's
modular Moog restoration) tuning drift was caused by variations in
the power supply -obviously as everything's voltage controlled. When
Keith's modular system was fitted with modern stabilised power
supplies 'the oscillators just went at attention'. Which I presume
means that they stayed right on the money for tuning.
I'm guessing that the later Minis would have been fitted with a more
stable PSU, hence the improved tuning.
Anyone want to enlarge or correct me on this?

Best wishes,
Dave.

>
>Sometimes mine is in tune immediately and holds it for hours. Sometimes it
>slips and slides like you wouldn't believe and never settles down. This is
>why I eventually bought a guitar pedal tuner and put it in-line between
Mini
>and mixer, using the 'output off when on' jack out so's I can retune on the
>fly. I know the later models (S/N 10,000 and up?) are more stable, but I
>wouldn't swap mine for anything. That's analogue synths for you.
>
>Andy T.

Re: [Mellotronists] Moog LP tuning

2006-11-30 by NormLeete@aol.com

In a message dated 29/11/2006 17:15:17 GMT Standard Time, ecclesreinson@... writes:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
Did the original minimoog model D need a 15 minute warm up?
After 10175 they fitted the heated VCOs, so the warm up time applies to them too...
Norm

Re: [Mellotronists] Moog LP tuning

2006-12-01 by lsf5275@aol.com

In a message dated 11/30/2006 6:59:27 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, NormLeete@... writes:
After 10175 they fitted the heated VCOs, so the warm up time applies to them too...
Norm
HE LIVES!!!!!!!
Haven't seen you here in a while, Norm. Glad you're back (unless I've been sleeping and have missed your posts, in which case I take my previous statement back and instead say, I'm glad you're still here with us!!!)
Frank Stickle

Re: [Mellotronists] And the winner of the auction MkII is:

2006-12-02 by fdoddy@aol.com

No shit!

-----Original Message-----
From: easle12@...
To: Mellotronists@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Fri, 1 Dec 2006 4:50 PM
Subject: Re: [Mellotronists] And the winner of the auction MkII is:


Brian Kehew.

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