Mellotronists

Okay, as a keyboard player (among other things) I can say the following 
with great impunity!

"Keyboardists seem to think that they have been given the god-given 
right for their instrument(s) to operate perfectly until the end of the 
world, regardless of what they do to them, the complete disregard to 
any sort of regular maintenance or how they're abused when played."

Orford is a perfect example of this attitude. If he were a guitar 
player with the same attitude to his instrument we might hear, "The 
strings I buy are total shite. I have to tune the damn instrument every 
single night -- sometimes twice!"

The sad truth is that most keyboard players do not maintain their 
instruments. With many, they're solid state and in truth you can't do 
much with those, but a mellotron is an electro-mechanical beast and 
must be maintained, very much like a piano. If you take care of it, it 
will play well. I horsed around a 400 and then a MkII for 3 years and 
countless gigs (and in the frozen north of Canada!) and never had a 
problem with either machine. Was I just lucky? No. I just made sure 
that I cleaned and adjusted my instruments weekly. The bum rap that 
mellotrons get is due to the fact that they aren't particularly robust 
(I'm being honest here) and that they require regular maintenance. 
Before every performance I would take the back off and check the tapes 
to make sure they were hanging properly (road crews being what they 
are) and then check the tapes under the keyboard (on the 400 this was a 
snap, on the MkII it was more of a cursory inspection). Once a month I 
would clean the heads and demag them. That was it. Because my mellotron 
was being used every night, I didn't have to worry about wobblies and 
stiff rollers. They didn't happen. (Like any instrument, mellotrons 
play better when they're used regularly.)

My wife (the flutist) paid $2000 for her flute (shows how long ago she 
bought it!) and shells out 1200 bucks every 2 years to have it 
overhauled. This is standard. The pads wear out, the mechanism gets 
dirty and goes out of adjustment). Does she complain that the 
instrument is a piece of shit? No. That's what every good flute 
requires. Same with violins, clarinets...

Why do keyboardists like Mssr. Orford think they are any different? If 
I were using my mellotron constantly, especially if I were touring, I 
would have it in to Streetly at least once every year, not because it 
was especially in need of repair, but because I would want to know that 
everything was working the way it should. Same as I would with a piano.

Orford is an arse.

Rick

----- Original Message ----- 

From: "Rick Blechta" <rick@...>
To: "Mellotronist's List List" <Mellotronists@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, April 23, 2005 2:29 AM
Subject: [Mellotronists] Keyboard Players



Rick/all

> Why do keyboardists like Mssr. Orford think they are any different? If
> I were using my mellotron constantly, especially if I were touring, I
> would have it in to Streetly at least once every year, not because it
> was especially in need of repair, but because I would want to know that
> everything was working the way it should. Same as I would with a piano.
>
> Orford is an arse.

FWIW, Martin Orford is actually quite a nice guy - he just isn't very
interested in a sound's 'authenticity'. Make that 'at all interested'. The
only thing I have to say in his defence is that he was touring an M400
heavily in the early to mid '80s. Now, I don't know about anyone else here,
but when I bought #1145, late in 1985, I didn't have the first idea where I
could take it to get it playable again. I now know that Les ran Streetly
until the following year, but I'd never heard of him, and had no way of
finding out who or where he was. Pre-Internet, my only sources of
information for companies outside London were ads in music mags, and I
rather doubt that Streetly were still advertising at that late stage. My
machine was left at a notable London keyboard repairer's for a good year,
from where I eventually picked it up in the same state as when I took it
there.Of course, I hadn't heard of Dave Kean either, and was finally put
onto Martin in '93 by a mutual friend (thanks, Dave!), since when it's cost
me a fortune.  :-)

All of which adds up to: the chances are, Martin Orford didn't know where to
take it for maintenance, and probably had little idea of how to perform it
himself. The first time I spoke to him about it ('93-ish), in answer to the
question "Why did you stop touring it?", he replied, "It was the night I
found a single roadie bumping it down a flight of concrete steps on his
own". I was lucky enough to see IQ several times during their brief 'Tron
years - I don't remember it going wrong at any gig I was at, although
thinking about it, I think they only toured it between about '83 and '85.
Martin also told me that story about having to go back to overdub whichever
key didn't work properly by pitch-shifting on the 'Tron, although it seemed
to work well enough live.

Its current owner, Clive 'Fat Boy' Nolan doesn't use it live.The last time I
saw Arena (thankfully some years ago), the only interesting bit of kit in
his rig was a MiniMoog, which I reckon he probably used for around 30
seconds in total. Now, I've moaned about my Mini's tuning instability here
before, but I've got a guitar tuner in line between Mini and mixer, which
cuts off the signal while you tune it. Problem not entirely solved, but
certainly improved dramatically.

Nolan is an arse.

Andy T.
M400 #1145.

On Apr 23, 2005, at 4:34 AM, Andy Thompson wrote:

> Martin Orford is actually quite a nice guy

I'm sure he is. Maybe I should have said that professionally he is an 
arse.

My email was disputing the fact that, like most keyboard players, he 
displays a total disregard for maintenance of his instruments. Notice 
that in his own words, it was the mellotron at fault, not him. Yes, at 
the time it was almost impossible to get competent maintenance, but 
keeping a mellotron running happily is not rocket science, either. I 
did it (as did others, I'm sure) with no help from any competent 
technicians. The only thing I ever worried about was the motor control, 
but I eventually figured out how it worked (and I had one of the 
original CMC10s!).

Andy, I'll gladly take your word for it that Martin Orford is a nice 
guy, but that doesn't change my feelings about his attitude towards his 
instruments. I was aiming my email at the attitude that mellotrons are 
shite because when they're abused they don't play well. Duh! I wonder 
how a case of guitars would respond to being bounced down a stairs by a 
roadie? I also would have bounced the roadie down the stairs with a big 
boot mark on his arse!

Rick

Delighted to see people using 'arse' quite a lot.  Any chance of  'bollocks' 
or 'twat'.  'Knackers' and 'minge' also add to the  narrative.
 
Martin

STREETLY ELECTRONICS - All things  Mellotronic
www.mellotronics.com

US East Coast Agent - Jimmy Moore 
_JMoore6397_ (mailto:JMoore6397) @...
US West Coast Agent - Paul  Cox _pjc56@..._ 
(mailto:pjc56@...)

----- Original Message ----- 

From: "Rick Blechta" <rick@...>
To: "Mellotronist's List List" <Mellotronists@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, April 23, 2005 1:03 PM
Subject: Re: [Mellotronists] Keyboard Players


> On Apr 23, 2005, at 4:34 AM, Andy Thompson wrote:
>
> > Martin Orford is actually quite a nice guy
>
> I'm sure he is. Maybe I should have said that professionally he is an
> arse.
>
> My email was disputing the fact that, like most keyboard players, he
> displays a total disregard for maintenance of his instruments. Notice
> that in his own words, it was the mellotron at fault, not him. Yes, at
> the time it was almost impossible to get competent maintenance, but
> keeping a mellotron running happily is not rocket science, either. I
> did it (as did others, I'm sure) with no help from any competent
> technicians. The only thing I ever worried about was the motor control,
> but I eventually figured out how it worked (and I had one of the
> original CMC10s!).

I'm impressed! I never got my head round even basic maintenance until after
Martin & John resurrected my machine.

> Andy, I'll gladly take your word for it that Martin Orford is a nice
> guy, but that doesn't change my feelings about his attitude towards his
> instruments. I was aiming my email at the attitude that mellotrons are
> shite because when they're abused they don't play well. Duh! I wonder
> how a case of guitars would respond to being bounced down a stairs by a
> roadie? I also would have bounced the roadie down the stairs with a big
> boot mark on his arse!

You're absolutely right, of course. I wasn't actually being pissy about your
comments - I only know Orford vaguely, although we've had a few
conversations (both in the flesh and over e-mail) over the years.

You should've heard the fuss some members of my band (well, one in
particular) made when I announced my intention to take #1145 on tour in
January. "You'll have to bring it to AT LEAST two rehearsals". Because?
Because I don't know how to play it? Because I won't be able to cope with an
extra instrument (in fact, two) on stage? "There won't be room in the van".
There was. "They're unreliable". It wasn't. In fact, I can honestly say that
those few gigs supporting Julian Cope were the most fun I've had in this
band yet, and only partly due to FINALLY playing the Great White Beast on
stage. And no-one bumped it down any stairs.  :-)

Andy T.

p.s. Oh, and the two extra instruments actually made my life easier, as
fewer patch changes were needed. And they made my 'Tron/analogue poly
samples sound like the pieces of shit they are.  :-)   I've got a C3
(unsplit!)/122 combination lined up from a friend who's selling them. Next
time I'll insist they go too.

----- Original Message -----

From: tronbros@...

To: rick@... ; Mellotronists@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Saturday, April 23, 2005 1:50 PM

Subject: Re: [Mellotronists] Keyboard Players

Delighted to see people using 'arse' quite a lot. Any chance of 'bollocks' or 'twat'. 'Knackers' and 'minge' also add to the narrative.

Martin

But how do you get 'minge' into day-to-day conversation? It's not even used as a routine insult. Sadly. References to one's 'old chap' are always welcome, too. Well, usually.

Andy T. (Says 'bollocks' a lot).

On Apr 23, 2005, at 8:55 AM, Andy Thompson wrote:

>  I've got a C3
> (unsplit!)/122 combination lined up from a friend who's selling them. 
> Next
> time I'll insist they go too.
>
Lucky you! They are very fine instruments and ultra reliable. I've 
often wondered why C3s are seen far more often then their B cousins in 
Europe. You see very few Cs on this side of the Atlantic. They're both 
abominably heavy, of course, but the Cs even more so. Because of the 
legs, the B3s are actually easier to carry, assuming you have four 
people. Yes, your bandmates will certainly complain about it, but like 
a mellotron, there ain't no substitute for the real thing...

Also, I knew you weren't being "pissy" with me! ;) I've been on a bit 
of a crusade lately with people who knock the mellotron as being 
"unreliable" when what is actually the case is that they're poorly 
maintained. And of course, when someone of "import" makes those kinds 
of statements, it's believed by the great unwashed multitudes. (Need I 
mention Mssrs Wakeman and Banks?) In Wakeman's case, I'm convinced his 
road crew knocked his trons more than necessary just to piss him off. 
The only keyboard I've owned that outshines my mellotron for 
reliability is my B3, and I've actually heard keyboard players complain 
about having to oil them once a year AND replace tubes -- valves for 
you Limeys ;) -- now and then.

Rick

I remember earlier when I had a Hammond m3 (B3's little brother?) and a 145  
Leslie. On the M3 the sound was really dirty and Low fi and the Horns refused 
to  spin in the Leslie so I sold them for both 100 dollars as they were  
broken.........NOT!!! As an owner of old classic keys such as 2 Hammond's,  Leslie 
and mellotrons it is one's responsibility to routinely clean and adjust  this 
classic instruments. I wish there were more Mellotron owners like Oxford as  I 
would gladly expand my vintage pieces
                                                                              
      Jimmy Moore.

My wife (the flutist) paid $2000 for her flute (shows how long ago she
bought it!) and shells out 1200 bucks every 2 years to have it
overhauled. This is standard. The pads wear out, the mechanism gets
dirty and goes out of adjustment).

"One time at..like ...bandcamp" - American Pie

On Sat, 23 Apr 2005 tronbros@... wrote:

> Delighted to see people using 'arse' quite a lot.  Any chance of  'bollocks' 
> or 'twat'.  'Knackers' and 'minge' also add to the  narrative.



i just love when you talk dirty, martin.

> Martin
> 
> STREETLY ELECTRONICS - All things  Mellotronic
> www.mellotronics.com
> 
> US East Coast Agent - Jimmy Moore 
> _JMoore6397_ (mailto:JMoore6397) @...
> US West Coast Agent - Paul  Cox _pjc56@..._ 
> (mailto:pjc56@...) 
>

In a message dated 4/23/2005 2:36:15 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
jeffc@... writes:

On Sat,  23 Apr 2005 tronbros@... wrote:

> Delighted to see people using  'arse' quite a lot.  Any chance of  
'bollocks' 
> or  'twat'.  'Knackers' and 'minge' also add to the   narrative.



i just love when you talk dirty,  martin.



I love the fact that Martin almost continually thinks dirty.
 
Frank

I had my M400 #328 for 25 years,on the road in arctic weather and 
desert heat all over the USA and it only went out ONCE in Las 
Vegas...an SMS3 capacitor blew and Sound Sales overnighted me a new one.
 For the record,I think Martin Orford is a great keyboardist.He did say 
he loves the sound...and he uses it a lot on their new "Dark Matter" 
album.
 I got to a point where I sold my 400 and use the Emu E4k with Pinder 
CD.It's spectacular,as close as I need at the moment.Someday maybe I'll 
have a real one again when my personal situation shifts.
 By the way,I had an Anvil ATA case for my 400 and was always on one 
end of it when moving. You have to treat them like a fine acoustic 
guitar or violin.

"You have to treat them like a fine acoustic guitar or violin."


Personally, I don't find the "Stradivarius" analogy too over-the-top.  No 
matter how you slice it, there's only a couple thousand of these amazing 
boxes on the planet.

Although, for pragmatic reasons, I stick with my custom "Jon-O-Tron" (TM!) 
Korg patches on stage.  Unless I am getting paid BIG bucks to play for a 
large audience on a large stage, I couldn't bear the thought of putting my 
baby in the line of fire of drunken louts uncaringly spilling beer on her.

----- Original Message ----- 

From: <tron@...>
To: <Mellotronists@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2005 10:22 AM
Subject: [Mellotronists] Keyboard Players


>
> > Lucky you! They are very fine instruments and ultra reliable. I've
> > often wondered why C3s are seen far more often then their B cousins in
> > Europe. You see very few Cs on this side of the Atlantic.
>
> To be fair, you don't see that many Hammonds over here in the first
> place. A C3 in decent nick over here sells for between 3000 and 4000
> pounds, believe it or not.

I'm on a promise of 2500 UKP for this one. Now, advice, please! This C3 is
unsplit. To split it would be a crime against, well, everything really. I
wish to be able to move the bastard about, even if only occasionally. My
options:

1) Devise a way of shifting the unsplit organ on some sort of trolley
affair, including a ramp to get it in and out of a van.
2) Damn the torpedoes and have it split anyway.
3) Do a deal with one of the Hammond restoration companies, whereby they get
a pristine, unsplit case, and they put the innards of mine into a split one
they may have lying around.

Bearing in mind that I live on my own, and I couldn't move a split one on my
own anyway. I've only just worked out a way to shift #1145 and my new
Rhodes.

Andy T.

> Lucky you! They are very fine instruments and ultra reliable. I've
> often wondered why C3s are seen far more often then their B cousins in
> Europe. You see very few Cs on this side of the Atlantic.

To be fair, you don't see that many Hammonds over here in the first
place. A C3 in decent nick over here sells for between 3000 and 4000
pounds, believe it or not.

Mike Dickson (tron@...) M400 #996
The Official Cynic of Streetly Electronics
Streetly Sample Library http://www.blackcat.demon.co.uk/tron/

>   But how do you get 'minge' into day-to-day conversation?

In many ways, Andy. In many ways. Usually in the kitchen. or example:

'Hmm. That fisherman's pie smells like elderly minge and I for one will
not be partaking of it'.

Mike Dickson (tron@...) M400 #996
The Official Cynic of Streetly Electronics
Streetly Sample Library http://www.blackcat.demon.co.uk/tron/

> Orford is a perfect example of this attitude. If he were a guitar
> player with the same attitude to his instrument we might hear, "The
> strings I buy are total shite. I have to tune the damn instrument every
> single night -- sometimes twice!"

Orford has a point, you know. I bought this carpet three years ago and
it seems that I have to vacuum the twatting thing regularly. Bastard in
the shop never said anything about that, did he?

Mike Dickson (tron@...) M400 #996
The Official Cynic of Streetly Electronics
Streetly Sample Library http://www.blackcat.demon.co.uk/tron/

On Apr 24, 2005, at 4:54 AM, Andy Thompson wrote:
>

> I'm on a promise of 2500 UKP for this one. Now, advice, please! This 
> C3 is
> unsplit. To split it would be a crime against, well, everything 
> really. I
> wish to be able to move the bastard about, even if only occasionally.

Andy,

You're right. It would be a criminal act to do anything to a vintage 
keyboard like this C3. There is another way. You could invest in a set 
of Roll or Kari dollies. Check them out here:
http://www.vintagehammond.com/

I used to have a set and they make busting anything like a Hammond (or 
mellotron) much easier, especially if you can get 4 people to help, 
although I've done it successfully with two -- and I ain't the 
strongest guy on the planet. They are expensive, but they're quality 
built. The ubiquitous Craig Collet (host of the two Tronto workshops) 
has a pair that are at least 40 years old and still in good shape -- a 
lot like the Hammonds they help move.

I'm sure there's a dealer for these in the UK.

Rick

----- Original Message ----- 

From: "Rick Blechta" <rick@...>
To: "Mellotronist's List List" <Mellotronists@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2005 1:47 PM
Subject: Re: [Mellotronists] Keyboard Players



Rick

> > I'm on a promise of 2500 UKP for this one. Now, advice, please! This
> > C3 is
> > unsplit. To split it would be a crime against, well, everything
> > really. I
> > wish to be able to move the bastard about, even if only occasionally.
>
> You're right. It would be a criminal act to do anything to a vintage
> keyboard like this C3. There is another way. You could invest in a set
> of Roll or Kari dollies. Check them out here:
> http://www.vintagehammond.com/

Brilliant! Many thanks - never heard of these before. I *really* couldn't
bring myself to have it split... The first fun thing is going to be getting
it out of my mate's place - he actually took one of the windows out, frame
and all, to get it in, and I know he isn't keen to do so again.  :-)

> I used to have a set and they make busting anything like a Hammond (or
> mellotron) much easier, especially if you can get 4 people to help,
> although I've done it successfully with two -- and I ain't the
> strongest guy on the planet. They are expensive, but they're quality
> built. The ubiquitous Craig Collet (host of the two Tronto workshops)
> has a pair that are at least 40 years old and still in good shape -- a
> lot like the Hammonds they help move.
>
> I'm sure there's a dealer for these in the UK.

Well, I haven't been able to trace anything, but with the currently
depressed dollar, it's worth ordering from the States. I mean, given how
much I'm spending on the organ... Looks like the smaller (23") version is
fine for a C3. All I'll need then is a medium-sized van with a tail-lift.
Which they don't make.  :-(

Thanks again,

Andy

p.s. So what's the chance of a 'Tronto 3' one day? I'd love an excuse to see
Canada...

My buddy that gigs with a B3 uses furniture dolleys to load
the beast into his minivan via a ramp.  He can manage loading
and unloading on his own - assuming there are no stairs
involved (which is usually not the case, when you get to the
stage)

The dolleys stay on the organ - except when he lends 'em to
me, to move my B...

-jh

--- Andy Thompson <andy.thompson@...> wrote:
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: <tron@...>
> To: <Mellotronists@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2005 10:22 AM
> Subject: [Mellotronists] Keyboard Players
> 
> 
> >
> > > Lucky you! They are very fine instruments and ultra
> reliable. I've
> > > often wondered why C3s are seen far more often then
> their B cousins in
> > > Europe. You see very few Cs on this side of the
> Atlantic.
> >
> > To be fair, you don't see that many Hammonds over here in
> the first
> > place. A C3 in decent nick over here sells for between
> 3000 and 4000
> > pounds, believe it or not.
> 
> I'm on a promise of 2500 UKP for this one. Now, advice,
> please! This C3 is
> unsplit. To split it would be a crime against, well,
> everything really. I
> wish to be able to move the bastard about, even if only
> occasionally. My
> options:
> 
> 1) Devise a way of shifting the unsplit organ on some sort
> of trolley
> affair, including a ramp to get it in and out of a van.
> 2) Damn the torpedoes and have it split anyway.
> 3) Do a deal with one of the Hammond restoration companies,
> whereby they get
> a pristine, unsplit case, and they put the innards of mine
> into a split one
> they may have lying around.
> 
> Bearing in mind that I live on my own, and I couldn't move
> a split one on my
> own anyway. I've only just worked out a way to shift #1145
> and my new
> Rhodes.
> 
> Andy T.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> --------------------~--> 
> Has someone you know been affected by illness or disease?
> Network for Good is THE place to support health awareness
> efforts!
> http://us.click.yahoo.com/pKxVKC/UOnJAA/n1hLAA/iWZylB/TM
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------~->

> 
> 
>  
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 
>

Rick isn't joking!  I'm damn sure of that because that double tron was (at
one time) given a paint job without removing the keyboards/innards!


Chris



In Wakeman's case, I'm convinced his

> road crew knocked his trons more than necessary just to piss him off.
>
> Rick
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

> The ubiquitous Craig Collet (host of the two Tronto workshops)
> has a pair that are at least 40 years old and still in good shape -- a
> lot like the Hammonds they help move.

I'm sure I heard Craig remark that he paid $50 for one of the C3s he has
in his warehouse. The casing was pretty much shot (and down to the bare
wood in places) but it played fine.

Mike Dickson (tron@...) M400 #996
The Official Cynic of Streetly Electronics
Streetly Sample Library http://www.blackcat.demon.co.uk/tron/

In the recent message <004f01c548ac$0f347cc0$0200a8c0@AndyThompson>
you wrote...

> I'm on a promise of 2500 UKP for this one. Now, advice, please! This C3 is
> unsplit. To split it would be a crime against, well, everything really.

It would. Find a way to deal with it unchopped. Carving up Hammonds is a
horrible business.

Mike Dickson (tron@...) M400 #996
The Official Cynic of Streetly Electronics
Streetly Sample Library http://www.blackcat.demon.co.uk/tron/

----- Original Message ----- 

From: <tron@...>
To: <Mellotronists@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2005 1:06 AM
Subject: [Mellotronists] Keyboard Players



> In the recent message <004f01c548ac$0f347cc0$0200a8c0@AndyThompson>
> you wrote...
>
> > I'm on a promise of 2500 UKP for this one. Now, advice, please! This C3
is
> > unsplit. To split it would be a crime against, well, everything really.
>
> It would. Find a way to deal with it unchopped. Carving up Hammonds is a
> horrible business.

I know. Well, now I've been put onto the Roll-Or-Kari (Christ, what an awful
name!), I think I'll be able to move the thing about on my own. Well, sort
of. Anyway, haven't got it yet.

Andy T.