Mellotronists

I think you raise a valid point. I, for one, think the Russian Choir is fabulous. (I immediately felt the urge to go out and consume vast quantities of vodka.) Being involved in making some of these new sounds, I suppose I'm somewhat biased, but I want new things to play with. Yes, I will always want a few of the oldies, but there are a lot more mellotronistic horizons to explore out there. One problem is that many of us our trying to relive our youths somewhat. You know, the time where we had no cash and little prospect of getting one of these magnificent beasts. How are the new sounds being greeted by those (I hate to say) younger musicians who are using mellotrons?

The next tape set I buy will certainly contain at least half new sounds (it's presently about 1/3). Those of you who were in Tronto last September know how good all of them are (Ray Jung Fretless bass, anyone?) and I've certainly enjoyed the new sounds I have more than the old.

As for other improvements, that's hard to say.

More comments?

Rick (SFX 10030)

tronbros@... wrote:

 Dear All,

We don't know how many people on this list have mellotrons BUT we would like a very serious answer to a very serious question:  it takes a lot of effort from a lot of people with a generous and boyish enthusiasm to get stuff made, recorded, remanufactured and generally made easily available for all and sundry who enjoy being a member of the small and elitist group of Mellotron owners.  However, sometimes the deafening silence to new sounds, products and technical advice makes you wonder just who is listening.  A negative reaction is just as valid as a positive one as long as there is a reaction!  Did anyone like the Russian Choir?  Do you want new sounds or are we rooted solely in the past(this is NOT a criticism).  What modifications would you like to see made available(if possible).  We will be able to offer genuine copies of the original Tape Frame cases very soon if anyone would like them.  Lets have some feedback on what would excite and enthuse the mellotron owners on this list so that those involved in preserving the instruments can priorortise their efforts.  Thanks.

Martin
Streetly Electronics - all things MELLOTRONIC - click this link..........

US East Coast Agent: Jimmy Moore - JMoore6397@...
 

Hey! You!
Check out my website. rickblechta.com
It’s really great. Trust me…
 

-----Original Message-----
From: tronbros@... [mailto:tronbros@...]
Sent: 20 March 2002 22:52
To: mellotronists@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Mellotronists] A question.........

Martin 

 
Did anyone like the Russian Choir?   

 

Storming! I've never downloaded any of the sounds before, but this one's stunning. Gothic as fuck.

 

 Do you want new sounds or are we rooted solely in the past(this is NOT a criticism).   

 

New sounds are cool, BUT, I'd love at least one more tape frame, but currently lack the finances - I doubt if I'll ever be able to afford enough frames to have all the sounds I'd really like. You've got about 60 now, so even a refurbished MkII with new tapes could only hold about half of them, and that's if you don't go for any custom combinations. However, it's got to be good to have loads of permutations - I know it goes against the grain, but I'm sure you could sell CD-ROMs of some of your new sounds/some of the lesser-known old ones.

Andy T.
M400 #1145

http://freespace.virgin.net/andy.thompson/

 

----- Original Message -----
From: <tronbros@...>
To: <mellotronists@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2002 2:51 PM
Subject: [Mellotronists] A question.........


> Dear All,
>
> We don't know how many people on this list have mellotrons BUT we
> would like a very serious answer to a very serious question: it takes a
> lot of effort from a lot of people with a generous and boyish enthusiasm
> to get stuff made, recorded, remanufactured and generally made easily
> available for all and sundry who enjoy being a member of the small and
> elitist group of Mellotron owners. However, sometimes the deafening
> silence to new sounds, products and technical advice makes you wonder
> just who is listening. A negative reaction is just as valid as a positive
> one as long as there is a reaction! Did anyone like the Russian Choir?
> Do you want new sounds or are we rooted solely in the past(this is
> NOT a criticism). What modifications would you like to see made
> available(if possible). We will be able to offer genuine copies of the
> original Tape Frame cases very soon if anyone would like them. Lets
> have some feedback on what would excite and enthuse the mellotron
> ownerso n this list so that those involved in preserving the instruments
> can priorortise their efforts. Thanks.
>
> Martin

Martin,

I don't own a 'tron, but I do get to write music [long distance] with
someone who does -- the pointy-headed Scot, Mike Dickson. We have a new
tune under development called "Red Sun Fading", in which Russian Choir is
prominently featured. [Also Cor Anglais, Ian MacDonald flute and the superb
Steve Hackett guitar frame...along with just a smidgen of classic tron
strings]. Thanks very much for the Russian Choir, it's a monster and adds
enormously to the tron's legacy IMO. In fact the only thing that dwarfs it
is the Hackett guitar frame, which is just bloody brilliant. Great stuff!
New sounds are a valuable addition. Some of them that we are toying with
for upcoming tunes include the Ray Jung fretless bass and the Fairlight
frames. Keep it up.
--
Cheers,
SDM -- a 21st century schizoid man
www.systemstheory.net
www.thecleanersystem.com

----- Original Message -----

From: tronbros@...

To: mellotronists@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2002 4:51 PM

Subject: [Mellotronists] A question.........

Dear All,

We don't know how many people on this list have mellotrons BUT we would like a very serious answer to a very serious question:  it takes a lot of effort from a lot of people with a generous and boyish enthusiasm to get stuff made, recorded, remanufactured and generally made easily available for all and sundry who enjoy being a member of the small and elitist group of Mellotron owners.  However, sometimes the deafening silence to new sounds, products and technical advice makes you wonder just who is listening.  A negative reaction is just as valid as a positive one as long as there is a reaction!  Did anyone like the Russian Choir?  Do you want new sounds or are we rooted solely in the past(this is NOT a criticism).  What modifications would you like to see made available(if possible).  We will be able to offer genuine copies of the original Tape Frame cases very soon if anyone would like them.  Lets have some feedback on what would excite and enthuse the mellotron owners on this list so that those involved in preserving the instruments can priorortise their efforts.  Thanks.

Martin
Streetly Electronics - all things MELLOTRONIC - click this link..........

US East Coast Agent: Jimmy Moore - JMoore6397@...

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Mellotronists-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



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Subj:[Mellotronists] A question.........
Date:03/20/2002 5:55:33 PM Eastern Standard Time
From:tronbros@...
To:mellotronists@yahoogroups.com
Sent from the Internet

> major task, so we'll see.

>
> My only other suggestion is that someone, *please*, get the
> "mothertron"
> back from that museum in London ;-). It doen't belong in a museum, it
> still has important work to do. My MKII needs tapes that actually mix
> sounds!

> >
> >
> >
> > Dear All,
> >
> > We don't know how many people on this list have mellotrons BUT we
> > would like a very serious answer to a very serious question: it
> > takes a lot of effort from a lot of people with a generous and
> > boyish enthusiasm to get stuff made, recorded, remanufactured and
> > generally made easily available for all and sundry who enjoy being a
> > member of the small and elitist group of Mellotron owners. However,
> > sometimes the deafening silence to new sounds, products and
> > technical advice makes you wonder just who is listening. A negative
> > reaction is just as valid as a positive one as long as there is a
> > reaction! Did anyone like the Russian Choir? Do you want new
> > sounds or are we rooted solely in the past(this is NOT a criticism).
> > What modifications would you like to see made available(if
> > possible). We will be able to offer genuine copies of the original
> > Tape Frame cases very soon if anyone would like them. Lets have
> > some feedback on what would excite and enthuse the mellotron owners
> > on this list so that those involved in preserving the instruments
> > can priorortise their efforts. Thanks.
> >
> > Martin
> > <A HREF="http://www.members.aol.com/tronbros/index.htm">Streetly
> > Electronics - all things MELLOTRONIC</A> - click this link..........
> >
> > US East Coast Agent: Jimmy Moore - JMoore6397@...
> > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> > ADVERTISEMENT
> > <A
> > HREF="http://rd.yahoo.com/M=215002.1818248.3328688.1261774/D=egroupw
> > eb/S=1707709858:HM/A=847665/R=0/*http://ads.x10.com/?bHlhaG9vbW9uc3R
> > lcjcuZGF0=1016664841%3eM=215002.1818248.3328688.1261774/D=egroupweb/
> > S=1707709858:HM/A=847665/R=1">M=215002.1818248.3328688.1261774/D=egr
> > oupweb/S=1707709858:HM/A=847665/R=1"></A>
> >
> >
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > Mellotronists-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the <A
> > HREF="http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/">Yahoo! Terms of
> > Service</A>.
> >
>
>
>

----- Original Message -----
From: "Gordon Reid" <gordon@...>
> Hi Martin et al,
>
> Although I don't often chip in on the list, I thought that I would answer
> the "new sounds?" question with an anecdote:
>
> When Nick and I recorded "Julia" for the Rime Of The Ancient Sampler, we
> made a special effort to be creative, and to use the Mellotron in as many
> ways as we could. We created swell brass sounds, employed lesser known
> tapes such as the piano, the bass guitar, an acoustic (12 string?)
> guitar... and used as many effects with those sounds as we could. We also
> used a few old favourites: the Mk2 Strings, one of the Flutes, and a tiny
> bit of Combined Choir. In the end, almost everything on the track apart
> from the percussion track, Clive's guitar, the bass pedals and some
> synthesised saxophone was played on Mellotron.
>
> When the CD was released, most people were very kind, and said that they
> liked the track, but wasn't it a shame that there was so little Mellotron
> on it!
>
> When questioned, it transpired that the only sounds that they recognised
> as Mellotron were the Flute and Mk2 strings. I soon gave up explaining
> that the piano was Mellotron, the double tracked acoustic guitar included
> Mellotron, the swelled brass was Mellotron, the 'synthesiser' ensemble
> was Mellotron... This is doubly interesting because most of the people
> with whom I had the conversation were Mellotron
> owners/players/aficionados, themselves.
>
> In the face of this, I am unsurprised that everybody sticks to the
> classic violins/flute/choir of one sort or another.
>
> All the best,
> Gordon.
> (Who will make a decision about that frame soon, honest!)

Gordon makes some terrific points about what comes to mind when we say the
word "mellotron". It's that mental "ah ha" on hearing the classic 'tron
strings, 8 voice choir, or 'tron brass: the vintage sounds that are always
going to be linked to the instrument. He also raises an issue that's
important to a project like Systems Theory with all the different things
done for "Julia" on "The Rime..." CD [one of the better tunes on it, IMO].
The fact that Mike Dickson can get so many different sounds out of his 'tron
is important to us. For example, the Steve Hackett guitar frame has given
us the opportunity to do some things with *guitar* that otherwise require a
real guitar player...with some ability [don't look in my direction...I'm the
man with 10 arthritic thumbs]. We'll make sure that the liner notes on the
debut CD explain all the things that Mike does with his 'tron, because
Mike's *axework* on "Red Sun Fading" sounds authentic, and we'd like to
avoid the "too bad there's not more 'tron on it" comments.
--
Cheers,
SDM -- a 21st century schizoid man
www.systemstheory.net
www.thecleanersystem.com

>Dear All,
>
>We don't know how many people on this list have mellotrons BUT we would like
>a very serious answer to a very serious question: it takes a lot of effort
>from a lot of people with a generous and boyish enthusiasm to get stuff
>made,
>recorded, remanufactured and generally made easily available for all and
>sundry who enjoy being a member of the small and elitist group of Mellotron
>owners. However, sometimes the deafening silence to new sounds, products
>and
>technical advice makes you wonder just who is listening. A negative
>reaction
>is just as valid as a positive one as long as there is a reaction! Did
>anyone like the Russian Choir? Do you want new sounds or are we rooted
>solely in the past(this is NOT a criticism). What modifications would you
>like to see made available(if possible). We will be able to offer genuine
>copies of the original Tape Frame cases very soon if anyone would like
>them.
>Lets have some feedback on what would excite and enthuse the mellotron
>owners
>on this list so that those involved in preserving the instruments can
>priorortise their efforts. Thanks.
>
>Martin
><A HREF="http://www.members.aol.com/tronbros/index.htm">Streetly
>Electronics - all things MELLOTRONIC</A> - click this link..........
>
>US East Coast Agent: Jimmy Moore - JMoore6397@...
>

> From: kenmerb@...
> Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 10:52:09 EST
>
> Whatever happened to the idea floating around for a
> "cycling" M400?

Subj:Re: [Mellotronists] A question.........
Date:03/22/2002 7:21:09 AM Eastern Standard Time
From:don@...
To:mellotronists@yahoogroups.com
Sent from the Internet



   > From: kenmerb@...
   > Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 10:52:09 EST
   >
   >  Whatever happened to the idea floating around for a
   >  "cycling" M400?

This sounds weirdly cool!  Has anybody done this?  I haven't heard
about this before.

I think the idea was for a "new" M400 with this cycling ability built in, but I like the idea of a retrofit kit for existing M400s (or maybe do both).  I guess it would consist of a set of tape drums and a small motor.  You could even make one without a motor to keep it simple.  Some kind of hand crank - low tech system which would let you cycle manually between stations and "lock down" when you got to the next station.  This would get around the MKII reliability problems. 

----- Original Message -----

From: kenmerb@...

To: mellotronists@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Friday, March 22, 2002 9:25 AM

Subject: Re: [Mellotronists] A question.........

In a message dated 03/22/2002 7:21:09 AM Eastern Standard Time, don@... writes:

Subj:Re: [Mellotronists] A question.........
Date:03/22/2002 7:21:09 AM Eastern Standard Time
From:don@...
To:mellotronists@yahoogroups.com
Sent from the Internet



   > From: kenmerb@...
   > Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 10:52:09 EST
   >
   >  Whatever happened to the idea floating around for a
   >  "cycling" M400?

This sounds weirdly cool!  Has anybody done this?  I haven't heard
about this before.

I forget exactly where I heard about this initially, but it was being considered at some point.  I think the idea was for a "new" M400 with this cycling ability built in, but I like the idea of a retrofit kit for existing M400s (or maybe do both).  I guess it would consist of a set of tape drums and a small motor.  You could even make one without a motor to keep it simple.  Some kind of hand crank - low tech system which would let you cycle manually between stations and "lock down" when you got to the next station.  This would get around the MKII reliability problems.  Or, it could be done with an electric motor. 

I'm no engineer, and I'm sure that you could come up with about a million reasons for not doing something like this (technical, financial, feasibility issues), but from the Mellotron player's perspective,  this would be great and would provide access to many new sounds for your Mellotron.  Even if it's not practical, I like the idea.


Ken M.



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-----Original Message-----
From: MAinPsych@... [mailto:MAinPsych@...]
Sent: 22 March 2002 16:11
To: mellotronists@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Mellotronists] A question.........

 

I think the idea was for a "new" M400 with this cycling ability built in, but I like the idea of a retrofit kit for existing M400s (or maybe do both).  I guess it would consist of a set of tape drums and a small motor.  You could even make one without a motor to keep it simple.  Some kind of hand crank - low tech system which would let you cycle manually between stations and "lock down" when you got to the next station.  This would get around the MKII reliability problems. 

It's been done already.  For those who have had the pleasure/privilege of playing Justin Mayer's J-Tron, one of his modifications was to abandon the mechanical cycling principle and go to a manual shuttling system via a small hand crank. When I tried it out, it seemed simple and efficient, faster than changing a tape frame.  If adapting this idea is one involving JM's intellectual property, perhaps a deal of some sort could be worked out between JM and Streetly.  Imagine a 400 with 6, 9, or even 12 sounds available.  I have piloerection thinking about it (goosebumps, for those of you who may be scratching your heads and/or thinking, 'Hey, none of that kind of talk on this list!'

 

OK, chaps, here's my two penn'orth, FWIW: How difficult would it be to replace standard 'Tron heads with 8-track ones, then use 1/2" 8-track tape? I realise the sound quality may be compromised, but I've heard pretty good results from 8-track cassette multitracks, and they use 1/4" tape. Would 1/2" tape fit, BTW?

 

The beauty of this system would be, because the heads are multitrack, there's be no 'track selecter' per se, and with a suitably-enhanced control panel (which would involve some mangling of the original, I'm afraid), not only could as many tracks as you like be selected at once, but with eight volume pots (sliders, preferably, for a quick visual check on levels), relevant volumes could also be adjusted. Maybe an on/off push switch for each track, with a vol.slider underneath? Of course, the tapes would just be on a standard frame, and could be replaced as easily as the current ones. Of course, any track could be mixed with any other(s), so whether or not particular tracks were adjacent would be irrelevant.

 

I've got a feeling this is vaguely how the 4-Track worked, and don't the various Chamberlin models have some system whereby the sounds are in stereo? This could, of course, be used here, but it seems a terrible waste of potential tracks. Isn't the J-Tron stereo, BTW?

 

My choice for my 'standard frame', would be:

 

3 violins

flutes

8-choir

cellos

MkII brass

church organ

er, something in the woodwind line (oboes?)

vibes? viola?

 

with violins/viola/cellos, the string section would become redundant, effectively, though it might be slight 'strings overkill' on one set.

 

a 'new frame' might encompass:

 

M300 A violins

Ian McD flute

Russian choir

solo trumpet

more woodwind (bassoon/cor anglais split?)

solo violin?

boys choir?

er, can't think of anything else that really complements this lot - any ideas? Gothic, maybe, or one of the other from the 'Les' set?

 

Anyway, I realise this is total 'pipe dream' stuff, but it doesn't seem any less practical than the 'cycling M400', and has the potential for many more sounds, as the 'new' tape frame would be visually and mechanically identical to the 'old', and just as easy (?!) to change. I suspect there would be problems with head alignment, with such a tiny tolerance - maybe use micro-adjusters on either the frame or the plate with the heads on it (sorry, can't remember its proper name), which would be easy to adjust for even the technically-incompetent. I'm deeply untechnical (ask Martin!), but I've had this idea knocking around for a while, and this seemed like a good moment to 'go public'!

Andy T.
M400 #1145

http://freespace.virgin.net/andy.thompson/
 

 

> OK, chaps, here's my two penn'orth, FWIW: How difficult would it be to
> replace standard 'Tron heads with 8-track ones, then use 1/2" 8-track
> tape?

> Pretty subjective but no more so than lining up the marks when
> threading new tapes.