Mellotronists

Any discussion of Tales of Topographic Oceans is likely to produce 
strong reactions, one way or the other, and I realize that bringing 
it up is risky. However, I feel it is worth noting here that the 
latest Rhino re-release contains "studio run-throughs" of two of the 
four parts, one of which is a fascinating display of raw Mellotron 
work.  The second track on disk 2 is an apparently unprocessed 
recording of a trial run of The Revealing Science of God, which is 
educational for two reasons:

First, it dispels the rumour that Yes' long pieces were simply the 
product of editing and splicing.  Both "studio run-throughs" make it 
clear that they played these songs in their entirety during the 
development process.

Secondly, beginning at about the 10-minute mark, Wakeman's mellotron 
is right up front in the mix with minimal, if any, processing or 
effects.  Unlike the other 3 sections of Tales, most of the tron in 
Revealing Science is violin, but it is fascinating to hear it so raw, 
and you can really hear how he plays it.  It's also educational to 
compare the mellotron parts in the run-through with the studio 
equivalent elsewhere on this release - it makes it much more apparent 
the type of effects that were used.

By the way, if anyone knows for sure which strings these are, I'd 
love to know.

Personally, I never tire of listening to Tales.  There is so much 
going on from a mellotron standpoint, and much of it is subtle and 
requires careful listening (I love the solo cello used in The 
Ancient).  This new Rhino release is a wonderful window into what is 
really going on.

On the other hand, if you didn't like Tales before, this is hardly 
going to change your mind.

-Jamie Robertson
M400 #380 (still in pieces)

jamierob54 wrote:

> Any discussion of Tales of Topographic Oceans is likely to produce
> strong reactions, one way or the other, and I realize that bringing
> it up is risky. However, I feel it is worth noting here that the
> latest Rhino re-release contains "studio run-throughs" of two of the
> four parts, one of which is a fascinating display of raw Mellotron
> work.  The second track on disk 2 is an apparently unprocessed
> recording of a trial run of The Revealing Science of God, which is
> educational for two reasons:
>
> First, it dispels the rumour that Yes' long pieces were simply the
> product of editing and splicing.  Both "studio run-throughs" make it
> clear that they played these songs in their entirety during the
> development process.
>
> Secondly, beginning at about the 10-minute mark, Wakeman's mellotron
> is right up front in the mix with minimal, if any, processing or
> effects.  Unlike the other 3 sections of Tales, most of the tron in
> Revealing Science is violin, but it is fascinating to hear it so raw,
> and you can really hear how he plays it.  It's also educational to
> compare the mellotron parts in the run-through with the studio
> equivalent elsewhere on this release - it makes it much more apparent
> the type of effects that were used.
>
> By the way, if anyone knows for sure which strings these are, I'd
> love to know.
>
> Personally, I never tire of listening to Tales.  There is so much
> going on from a mellotron standpoint, and much of it is subtle and
> requires careful listening (I love the solo cello used in The
> Ancient).  This new Rhino release is a wonderful window into what is
> really going on.
>
> On the other hand, if you didn't like Tales before, this is hardly
> going to change your mind.
>
> -Jamie Robertson    M400 #380 (still in pieces)

  ------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi Jamie and gang,     Thanks very much for that info !  I wasn't aware
that "Tales" was re-released on Rhino label.  Will have to go out
straightaway and look for it. Did you buy  it online, BTW ??

That double-LP was one of the first which I attempted to fully learn/play

way back then.  "The Remembering" contains many sweeping chord
sequences that still impart that "goosebump" feeling 30 years later !
Second only to "Close To The Edge"  title track.

I may have mentioned this before, but Wakeman cleverly cranked-up
his old CMC-10 at the end of  that tune and  in portions of  "The
Ancient",
to raise choir ,brass and strings an octave higher. Tested/tried this in
1974
with my then-new M400, and sure-enough "that sound" was there !
So much for half-speed toggle-switch , eh ??  I rigged the stability
control
from the CMC-10 with a cable to quickly change effects.

BTW, I love those two LP's from YES, and always will. -----Jerry Korb

(recently completed full restoration on MK-II/134 Pindertron, and already

preparing brain-cell space for next potential Mellotronic
challenge....JK)

> From: "jamierob54" <jamie@...>
> Date: 2004/03/25 Thu AM 10:41:07 EST
> 
> Any discussion of Tales of Topographic Oceans is likely to produce 
> strong reactions, one way or the other, and I realize that bringing 
> it up is risky. 

No complaints from me. It happens to be one of my favourites, and the first live show of theirs I saw (all those fibreglass doo-dads were quite impressive, but must've been hell for the roadies).

I would be interested in hearing a surround version if it's available. I've been using the three-speaker set-up a la Eno's "On Land" diagram (third speaker connected across + terminals of amplifier and placed at rear). The percussion solo at the beginning of "The Ancient" is all over the place, including overhead! When the 'tron is widely panned (in the audio sense, not critically :->) it is like the microwave background radiation of the universe - everywhere! It works best in as near to total darkness as possible, and with eyes closed to prevent visual distractions. I really should get some wire and hook up my Dynaco Quadapter to see if that's any better (does essentially the same thing, but splits the rear into two speakers).

Try it, I think you'll like it.


James Bailey
host: Electric Storm / A Missing Sense
CKLN-FM 88.1 Toronto www.ckln.fm
electricstorm@...

> Thanks very much for that info !  I wasn't aware
> that "Tales" was re-released on Rhino label.  Will have to go out
> straightaway and look for it. Did you buy  it online, BTW ??
> 

Jerry,

Rhino has been re-releasing the so-called "main sequence" over the 
last few years in groups of about three at a time.  The most recent 
batch is up through Tormato and Drama.  They are excellent packages, 
with improved mastering and extra material, ranging from "studio run-
throughs" to alternate mixes and previously un-released tunes from 
that period.  Some of this material is of questionable interest, 
while some is "must-have", provided you are a fan of either the music 
or the band.

I've bought some at retail outlets like Best Buy as well as online.  
I just did a search at Amazon and the first "Tales" tales on the list 
is the Rhino version - you can verify by checking for the 
supplemental tracks on the track listing. You should have no problem 
finding them.

By far, my favourite new material are the run-throughs, because you 
hear just the band, in your face, presumably without edits (there are 
mistakes).  In fact, I prefer the run-through version of Revealing 
Science to the final version - I can easily picture them all in the 
studio together just playing it straight through.  Plus, I like 
hearing the mellotron so far up in the mix.  And Alan's drumming is 
phenomenal.

Unfortunetaly, the run-through of The Ancient is much more 
preliminary and the mellotron must have been sick that day - it is 
conspicuously absent.

-Jamie

> From: "jamierob54" <jamie@...>
   > Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 19:24:45 -0000
   > 
   > > Thanks very much for that info !  I wasn't aware that "Tales"
   > > was re-released on Rhino label.  Will have to go out
   > > straightaway and look for it. Did you buy it online, BTW ??
   > 
   > I just did a search at Amazon and the first "Tales" tales on the
   > list is the Rhino version - you can verify by checking for the
   > supplemental tracks on the track listing. You should have no
   > problem finding them.

CD Universe ( http://www.cduniverse.com ) has an area on the front
page of their website that lists their five "Top Sellers".  At one point a
few months ago, four of the top five were Yes reissue albums.  (!!!) 

  -- Don

-- 
Don Tillman
Palo Alto, California
don@...
http://www.till.com

This latest series of releases was engineered and
edited by our old friend Brian Kehew. 

Miss that guy on this list.

Mark
--- jamierob54 <jamie@...> wrote:
> > Thanks very much for that info !  I wasn't aware
> > that "Tales" was re-released on Rhino label.  Will
> have to go out
> > straightaway and look for it. Did you buy  it
> online, BTW ??
> > 
> 
> Jerry,
> 
> Rhino has been re-releasing the so-called "main
> sequence" over the 
> last few years in groups of about three at a time. 
> The most recent 
> batch is up through Tormato and Drama.  They are
> excellent packages, 
> with improved mastering and extra material, ranging
> from "studio run-
> throughs" to alternate mixes and previously
> un-released tunes from 
> that period.  Some of this material is of
> questionable interest, 
> while some is "must-have", provided you are a fan of
> either the music 
> or the band.
> 
> I've bought some at retail outlets like Best Buy as
> well as online.  
> I just did a search at Amazon and the first "Tales"
> tales on the list 
> is the Rhino version - you can verify by checking
> for the 
> supplemental tracks on the track listing. You should
> have no problem 
> finding them.
> 
> By far, my favourite new material are the
> run-throughs, because you 
> hear just the band, in your face, presumably without
> edits (there are 
> mistakes).  In fact, I prefer the run-through
> version of Revealing 
> Science to the final version - I can easily picture
> them all in the 
> studio together just playing it straight through. 
> Plus, I like 
> hearing the mellotron so far up in the mix.  And
> Alan's drumming is 
> phenomenal.
> 
> Unfortunetaly, the run-through of The Ancient is
> much more 
> preliminary and the mellotron must have been sick
> that day - it is 
> conspicuously absent.
> 
> -Jamie
> 
> 


__________________________________
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Right after reading the topic yesterday I jumped in my car & 
drived down to Cologne to get this record (I have a japanese vinyl 
pressing and enjoy it since more than 20 years and was VERY 
concious how the alternative takes would sound). The complete 
CD is beautiful made, the booklet, the notes, packaging etc. & 
the sound is definatly more precise in details. The "intro"-section 
to "The Revealing Science of God" was the first big surprise. I 
only miss notes about the fact why it has been left on the original 
record. The alternative take of "The Ancient" is... weird. Its such a 
"skeleton" version of the song that even for me the guitar/vox 
often doesn't really fit to drums/bass/keys. Maybe this take was 
obviously not played exactly enough (regarding the timings) that 
it was never intended to be used. Or are the overdubs 
neccassary to understand the musical idea??? I'am not sure... 
The other alternative take (TRSoG) is much closer. Nice to hear 
that Jon Anderson sang the "deeper" voice through the whole 
song, never switched between the voices. The complete piano is 
overdubbed. The piano bits often makes the song a bit more 
"spicy" IMHO.
And the Mellotron... sound only a bit more dry. Otherwise it's very 
close to the final version. 

Thanks for this interesting hint. I also bought "Relayer". Nice 
price (the single CD = 12 Euros).

Thomas 
(# 1018 & his keyboarded friends: waiting in the rehearsing 
room for tomorrow evening)

<<This latest series of releases was engineered and edited by our old friend 
Brian Kehew. 

Miss that guy on this list. >>

me too, but where did you get this info from? I rebought the "main sequence" 
a few months ago- they were on chop-out at a west-end bookshop so I got the 
whole lot for about £60, six or seven titles I think. 
"going for the one" was the one I expected to have changed least but it still 
sounded fresh compared to the original cd release. 
best of all was finally being able to hear "relayer" as the band intended. 
for years I'd been blaming eddy offord's mobile studio for the distortion & 
general muddiness of the vinyl & original cd release. 
& whatever one's opinion on bonus tracks & enhanced artwork (departures from 
the original release being somehow sacrilegious in some quarters), the extra 
bits put the original works in a whole new light. even just the photos, but 
especially the run-throughs... somehow the band seem more human now. & it finally 
dispels the myth that they were a record-&-edit band & couldn't compose...

but back to my question- I couldn't find brian's name on the sleeves... maybe 
it was just on the later stuff which I haven't bought... "tormato" was a bit 
twee for me, & then after that... I have ABWH on vinyl, played ot once I 
think.... awful.

duncan/1098

Hi Duncan,

He's a close friend of DK's....who was telling me
about the project. I guess he spent a good bit of last
year on the it. Does anyone have Brian's email addy?
We could ask him. We were talking about Chris Dale's
double tron....lots of untold history (on this list
anyway) about that machine, Mike Ayoub and his
brothers, the Birotron etc. 

Mark.
--- ferrograph@... wrote:
> <<This latest series of releases was engineered and
> edited by our old friend 
> Brian Kehew. 
> 
> Miss that guy on this list. >>
> 
> me too, but where did you get this info from? I
> rebought the "main sequence" 
> a few months ago- they were on chop-out at a
> west-end bookshop so I got the 
> whole lot for about \ufffd60, six or seven titles I
> think. 
> "going for the one" was the one I expected to have
> changed least but it still 
> sounded fresh compared to the original cd release. 
> best of all was finally being able to hear "relayer"
> as the band intended. 
> for years I'd been blaming eddy offord's mobile
> studio for the distortion & 
> general muddiness of the vinyl & original cd
> release. 
> & whatever one's opinion on bonus tracks & enhanced
> artwork (departures from 
> the original release being somehow sacrilegious in
> some quarters), the extra 
> bits put the original works in a whole new light.
> even just the photos, but 
> especially the run-throughs... somehow the band seem
> more human now. & it finally 
> dispels the myth that they were a record-&-edit band
> & couldn't compose...
> 
> but back to my question- I couldn't find brian's
> name on the sleeves... maybe 
> it was just on the later stuff which I haven't
> bought... "tormato" was a bit 
> twee for me, & then after that... I have ABWH on
> vinyl, played ot once I 
> think.... awful.
> 
> duncan/1098
> 
> 


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In a message dated 28/3/04 4:19:52 PM GMT Daylight Time, easle12@... 
writes:


> He's a close friend of DK's....who was telling me
> about the project. I guess he spent a good bit of last
> year on the it. Does anyone have Brian's email addy?
> We could ask him. We were talking about Chris Dale's
> double tron....lots of untold history (on this list
> anyway) about that machine, Mike Ayoub and his
> brothers, the Birotron etc. 
> 

Brian is currently the keyboard tech on the Who tour here in the UK.  His 
address is mellot@....  He'll be back in LA in a few days I think.

Martin
Streetly Electronics - all things MELLOTRONIC - click this link..........

US East Coast Agent: Jimmy Moore - JMoore6397@...

West Coast Service Agent:  Paul J Cox - pjc56@...