Mellotronists

In a message dated 22/03/2004 19:51:05 GMT Standard Time, 
andy.thompson@... writes:


Ah yes! the old "Watcher of the Skies intro 'tron part" conversation.

Andy is quite correct here (again!!).  Whilst  Lord Banks of Keybleboard 
still had the MkII  the opening was performed (studio and live) entirely on said 
baby with bass accordion in the left hand ... (someone on the list actually got 
this info from Tony Banks direct.)  I've seen it played entirly on 'tron a 
couple of times going back to the Merton Civic Hall gig in Wimbledon which was 
before Foxtrot was released.


Initially, the idea of an accordion in "that" sound occurs as bonkers until 
you hear one.  The bottom notes are incredibly dark and powerful and, being a 
reed, mixes well with the brass side of the "Watcher" mix as much of the sound 
comes from saxes. It makes me shudder just to think about it!!............... 



Ooohh! .....(I just thought about it.)

So what exactly was played on the "accordion" side is an interesting point as 
a  sustained F-sharp is not possible due to the highly controversial, and 
some would say, unconstitutional 8-second rule.  It sounds like some sneaky 
altering of an F-sharp and an octave below or above (depending on where you start)

Now a Polka verison of our beloved tune would be on par with the infamous 
"Discoballs" tribute to Pink Floyd. (man, you should hear Arnlod Layne with 
Jannik Topp on bass)

RD

> > Attached to this e-mail is the transcription of "Watcher of the Skies" 
> > that I did up for the people who attended the Tronto MkII workshop in 
> > 2001. If you want to be authentic to Tony Banks playing live, then you 
> > should start out playing the bass clef part with your right hand on a 
> > Hammond organ (bass pedals, too, if you have them!), and your left hand 
> > playing the treble clef part on the mellotron. At the Moderato section, 
> > use both hands on the mellotron.
> 
> Only after he replace his MkII with the M400 - otherwise, all MkII.
> 
> > I watched Messr. Banks play it a few times live and this is the way he 
> > did it. If you want to do a studio version, then go totally nuts with 
> > overdubs and added octaves. Somebody on the list has said that Banks 
> > used a mellotron bass accordian sound in the studio version but I don't 
> > recommend doing that because of the tendency for it to cause the piece 
> > to break out into a polka -- which would be a very shocking thing 
> > indeed!
> 
> Albeit amusing.  :-)
> 
> Andy T.
>

Polka would be merciful compared to the nutty crap I heard King Crimson 
play on the back leg of their Islands our.  I saw an early gig in phila 
and then a later gig out west. They went from a good set set (Boz could 
not play while singing nor tune his bass himself)  to an uptown white 
boy blues vamp version of Schizoid Man. It was like they didn't know 
who they were.

gino

Hi,
I think he just releases the key towards the end of the first bar 
allowing the rewind and plays it again at the start of the next. It isn't 
continuous. Doubly difficult to do on the accordions anyway as the 
sounds don't last the whole 8 seconds (at least they don't on mine). 
Also it's just one bass note on the MkII and not 2 as it Ricks version 
cause theres not enough keys covered by the accordian sound.
John


So what exactly was played on the "accordion" side is an interesting 
point as a sustained F-sharp is not possible due to the highly 
controversial, and some would say, unconstitutional 8-second rule. 
It sounds like some sneaky altering of an F-sharp and an octave 
below or above (depending on where you start)




> Attached to this e-mail is the transcription of "Watcher of 
the Skies" 
> that I did up for the people who attended the Tronto MkII 
workshop in 
> 2001. If you want to be authentic to Tony Banks playing 
live, then you 
> should start out playing the bass clef part with your right 
hand on a 
> Hammond organ (bass pedals, too, if you have them!), and 
your left hand 
> playing the treble clef part on the mellotron. At the 
Moderato section, 
> use both hands on the mellotron.

Only after he replace his MkII with the M400 - otherwise, all 
MkII.

> I watched Messr. Banks play it a few times live and this is 
the way he 
> did it. If you want to do a studio version, then go totally nuts 
with 
> overdubs and added octaves. Somebody on the list has 
said that Banks 
> used a mellotron bass accordian sound in the studio 
version but I don't 
> recommend doing that because of the tendency for it to 
cause the piece 
> to break out into a polka -- which would be a very shocking 
thing 
> indeed!

Albeit amusing. :-)

Andy T.






Yahoo! Groups Links

Tovisit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Mellotronists/
 
Tounsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Mellotronists-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
 
Youruse of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the hahoo! 
Terms of Service.

On Tuesday, March 23, 2004, at 04:40 AM, J.K.Beresford wrote:

> Hi,
> I think he just releases the key towards the end of the first bar
> allowing the rewind and plays it again at the start of the next. It 
> isn't
> continuous. Doubly difficult to do on the accordions anyway as the
> sounds don't last the whole 8 seconds (at least they don't on mine).
> Also it's just one bass note on the MkII and not 2 as it Ricks version
> cause theres not enough keys covered by the accordian sound.
> John
>
>
> So what exactly was played on the "accordion" side is an interesting
> point as a sustained F-sharp is not possible due to the highly
> controversial, and some would say, unconstitutional 8-second rule.
> It sounds like some sneaky altering of an F-sharp and an octave
> below or above (depending on where you start)

Just to clarify: what I wrote out on the sheet music was the way I saw 
Banks play it on the SEBTP tour (the only times I was in a position to 
view his hands. I also wrote it this way because there are certainly 
octaves in the studio version. (It pretty much sounds to me as if he's 
doubling the tron parts on his Hammond.) I also knew that Nacho has a 
400, so he would need to play some other instrument along with the 
mellotron if the intro part was going to have any chance of sounding 
good (something that is also really helped by having octaves in the 
bass clef part).

John is right about the accordion sound, of course. I'l have to listen 
to my copy of Genesis Live again to hear what might be going on there, 
but I suspect he's right about the note being released. If I remember 
correctly, Banks played the intro on the MkII in a much more "angular" 
manner than on subsequent live performances using his 400, and on the 
studio version. This would allow him to release the bass note in order 
for the tape to rewind and not have the performance sound odd. Try it 
that way and you'll see what I mean. You can also hold the note for the 
first two measures without the tape running out (unless you're playing 
really slowly), then release the key to re-attack the note in the 3rd 
bar.

When I played it live, regardless of what mellotron I was using at the 
time, I always played the first section with octaves using the lower 
manual of my B3 with the standard "bass" setting on the drawbars (lower 
3 fully out), after which I'd switch hands and play the Moderato 
section completely on mellotron. Once I got the FX console, I used 
octave choir for the descending octave notes (in the Moderato section) 
and the MkII brass for the part in thirds (since the FX console doesn't 
allow mixing of adjacent tracks). With the bespoke tapes Martinge made 
up for me, I now have a mixed 3 violins/brass track which is great. 
Also, playing the octave part using "Orchestra" or "Gothic" at the end 
is REALLY effective.

But whatever Banks played live, it was also REALLY effective, and 
that's the key. The intro has to be as powerful as you can make it. 
That means a lot of volume and as thick a sound as you can manage.

Rick

PS Fritata, I'll answer your question fully this evening. I want to 
listen to the sounds and think about it.