Mellotronists

Dear list members,

Firstly, please accept my apologies if the subject of Birotrons is too off
topic
for this list, I hope, and believe it isn't. So I'll go on anyway:-)

I helped to build the original (and only) first batch of Birotrons in the
mid 70s,
and recently have found some people who are interested in the history of this
intriguing but ill-fated machine, including some who may well be on this list.
I would like to put a history of the Birotron together, so any input would be
appreciated. Please feel free to reply via the list if you think it's
relevant, or to
me personally if you feel it is off topic for the list.

<nic@...>




Regards,

Nic Lewis

> From: Nic Lewis <nic@...>
> Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 20:33:24 +0000
>
> Firstly, please accept my apologies if the subject of Birotrons
> is too off topic for this list, I hope, and believe it isn't. So
> I'll go on anyway:-)
>

Talk of Birotrons would be a breath of fresh air. We're all ears!

-- Don, Mellotronists list mamanger

--
Don Tillman
Palo Alto, California, USA
don@...
http://www.till.com

Thanks for your swift response,

At 15:58 12/02/02 -0800, Don Tillman wrote:

> > From: Nic Lewis <nic@...>
> > Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 20:33:24 +0000
> >
> > Firstly, please accept my apologies if the subject of Birotrons
> > is too off topic for this list, I hope, and believe it isn't. So
> > I'll go on anyway:-)
> >
>
>Talk of Birotrons would be a breath of fresh air. We're all ears!

Well here's a quick synopsis - warts 'n' all, I don't claim any of it to
be gospel - it is 25+ years ago after all and my memory may not be A1,
so any comments, corrections etc from the audience would be appreciated.

I worked for 'Birotronics' in 1975 -77, it was a fairly ramshackle
outfit, part of Wakeman's 'Complex7', a number of disparate companies
the mainstay of which was Packhorse Case Co - still going strong in
Peterborough UK. (Pete Robinson, who was running the show may
disagree here so if you're listening Pete, we remember the leather jacket)

The Birotron was an interesting device, the original Dave Biro prototype
consisting of 20(?) or so standard auto 8 track players in a flight case -
8 tracks being endless loops meant that there wasn't a limitation on the
length of play of a given note - something which I understand was a limitation
of Mellotrons of the day. Biro convinced Wakeman that it was worthy of
investment and a small but dedicated ;-) team set about turning it into a
saleable product. Here I could enter into an in depth technical treatise,
but that's probably for another day.

We made 13. (OK, there were orders for, some say, thousands - but
certainly the interest in it could have resulted in sales of many hundreds).

We were overtaken by 'solid state' technology - polymoogs came in, closely
followed by other devices, still analogue but not electromechanical- and
the Birotron died a death.

Sort of.

I've seen some web sites purporting to know of the whereabouts of some
of these machines, I'll post the urls if I can find them again and anyone is
interested, I also think I know of the last resting place of a couple of the
machines.

If the list recipients are interested, I'll contact the people that know
about this
and regale you with further information -

comments, brickbats, etc etc welcome

Regards,
Nic,
ex - Birotronics, Complex7, Abercrombie Avenue HW Bucks
(Thence to Station Road, in Loudwater HW)
Also Packhorse Case Co - there's another story or two!

> Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 01:10:54 +0000
> From: Nic Lewis <nic@...>
>
> The Birotron was an interesting device, the original Dave Biro
> prototype consisting of 20(?) or so standard auto 8 track players
> in a flight case - 8 tracks being endless loops meant that there
> wasn't a limitation on the length of play of a given note -
> something which I understand was a limitation of Mellotrons of
> the day. Biro convinced Wakeman that it was worthy of investment
> and a small but dedicated ;-) team set about turning it into a
> saleable product.

What was the *purpose* of the Birotron?

I can't believe that the 8 second time limit was the motivation. It's
not like you hear keyboard players say "Damn this Mellotron and its 8
second time limit!". Besides, one can always loop the tapes in an
M400.

My guess would be a cost reduction from using commodity 8-track
drives, or the potential reliability from using a mass produced
tape mechanism, or the ease of mounting new tapes.

-- Don

--
Don Tillman
Palo Alto, California, USA
don@...
http://www.till.com

Apart from the 8 seconds I just presumed it was portability and the
fact you can stick it on top of a piano or something. Where did the
masters for these things come from anyway? Were they 'tron,
Chamby or completely new?
John

>
> What was the *purpose* of the Birotron?
>
> I can't believe that the 8 second time limit was the motivation. It's
> not like you hear keyboard players say "Damn this Mellotron and its 8
> second time limit!". Besides, one can always loop the tapes in an
> M400.
>
> My guess would be a cost reduction from using commodity 8-track
> drives, or the potential reliability from using a mass produced
> tape mechanism, or the ease of mounting new tapes.
>
> -- Don
>
> --
> Don Tillman
> Palo Alto, California, USA
> don@...
> http://www.till.com
>
>
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Hi Nic and all,

The Birotron info. is welcome as it is an enigmatic part of tape replay keyboard history.  To add to this, we went to see Peter Robinson yesterday and took along Chris Franke's Birotron No 5.  Needless to say Pete was knocked out to see that one had survived so well.  What we did learn is that out of the 13 produced, Peter personally threw away 5!!  Aaagh you cry.  Aaagh indeed comes the reply.  So there are just 8 out there.  There was some discussion about the whereabouts of the others and I think some attempt will be made by Peter to try and contact the owners.  He also showed us some historical info, patents and the like so he is as greater horder as JB.

We'll have more to tell shortly but look forward to Nic's input.  One question to Nic; from what we can tell, the sounds that were specially recorded for the machine are Violins/String Section/Cello/Organ/Male Choir/Mixed Brass/Woodwind/Flute/Recorder.  We can find trace of anything else.  Do you recall another sound?  Thanks.

Best,

Martin
Streetly Electronics - all things MELLOTRONIC

US East Coast Agent: Jimmy Moore - JMoore6397@...

In a message dated 2/13/02 12:57:19 AM Pacific Standard Time, don@... writes:

My guess would be a cost reduction from using commodity 8-track
drives, or the potential reliability from using a mass produced
tape mechanism, or the ease of mounting new tapes. 

DK's video explains that, according to Dave Biro, the idea for the 8-track drive was to reduce the cost, so that a Birotron user could replace a set of tapes for about what a guitar player would spend on a couple of month's worth of strings (but didn't specifically say how much dollarwise).  Does anyone know the original proposed selling price of a Birotron and/or tapes?

Frank Samagaio
M400 #908

> Does anyone know the original proposed selling price of a Birotron
> and/or tapes?

I don't know thwe answer to Emperor Chief Poo-Bah Frank's question, but
I do know that a friend of a friend says that he once got a Birotron 'on
approval' and ended up sending it back whence it came due to the
degradation in sound that he had noticed after only two weeks' use.

Does this story sound plausible? I would have thought it odd that the
instruments would be given out in this manner. Or were sales so
disappointing that they would let them out on a trial basis like this?

Mike Dickson (tron@...) M400 #996
The Official Cynic of Streetly Electronics
Streetly Sample Library http://www.blackcat.demon.co.uk/tron/samples.htm

-----Original Message-----
From: Don Tillman [mailto:don@...]
Sent: 13 February 2002 08:57
To: nic@...
Cc: Mellotronists@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Mellotronists] Slightly off topic - Birotrons


Don


What was the *purpose* of the Birotron?

I can't believe that the 8 second time limit was the motivation. It's
not like you hear keyboard players say "Damn this Mellotron and its 8
second time limit!".


Oh yes you do... :-)


Besides, one can always loop the tapes in an M400.


If you're blessed with *considerable* technical ability! I wouldn't know
where to start.

Andy T.
M400 #1145

http://freespace.virgin.net/andy.thompson/

> From: "Andy Thompson" <andy.thompson@...>
> Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 11:42:25 -0000
>
> From: Don Tillman [mailto:don@...]
> Sent: 13 February 2002 08:57
> >
> > Besides, one can always loop the tapes in an M400.
>
> If you're blessed with *considerable* technical ability!
> I wouldn't know where to start.
>

Never spliced a tape? 'Kids these days, I tell ya... :-)

-- Don

--
Don Tillman
Palo Alto, California, USA
don@...
http://www.till.com