Mellotronists

In my piano class I have been trying to get my instruction veerd
towards the Great American Ragtime sound.. In doing so I found a
little history that was lost until reciently. Rick, if you know of the
following please let me know what you think. Well I stumbled on some
old piano rolls of James P. Johnson dated 1921 - 1929(The Charlston
and more)!!!! The father of Stride, the teacher of the great Fats
Waller and Duke Ellengton.. From what I've been reading it all comes
down that the movement he started had much more impact to the world
than anything we know of regarding modern music. It's difficult to put
my self in that time but listing to these lost rolls one can hear
music that must have been on hold until today! (the history tells how
his name was forgotton partially due to his work and inflence on
Gershwin) On ebay I also found a old "Push Up" which was the
predecessor to the player piano invented in Detroit. You push this
large unit up to any piano and it uses the suction pumps to activate
"servos" if you will to play the piano. I wish I could get it but it's
in Ohio.. Anyway these songs are now available on CD on the
Tradition Records label by Rycodisk. The CD is called James P. Johnson
Running Wild 1921-1926.
Ches #997

Ches!

Interesting stuff!..... Player piano "Push-up"s are fabulous machines, and
certainly in the UK, relatively undesirable, hence cheap. If you stumble
across one, the most versatile is an Aeolian or Orchestrelle with the
"Duo-Art" feature, which could be switched in to add automatic expression to
the piano roll, provided it was of a compatible type. This is a DIGITAL
system believe it or not!.... using air instead of electricity! These brands
were termed "Pianola" and became a generic term for automatic player pianos.

If you ever get the chance, try to get to a concert by Rex Lawson (I think
he tours Worldwide) who with his partner take a brace of Duo-Art push-ups
around with them and hook 'em up to a couple of concert grands. The brevity
of a single piano roll performance is overcome by one "Pianolist" seamlessly
picking up the performance from the other as the roll runs out. In this way,
they perform long orchestral pieces.

Anyway....Whatever you do, don't pay big money for ANY automatic piano at
auction..... I'd imagine EBay to be the WORST way to buy one!!

Cheers f'now!!


C
----------

>In my piano class I have been trying to get my instruction veerd
>towards the Great American Ragtime sound.. In doing so I found a
>little history that was lost until reciently. Rick, if you know of the
>following please let me know what you think. Well I stumbled on some
>old piano rolls of James P. Johnson dated 1921 - 1929(The Charlston
>and more)!!!! The father of Stride, the teacher of the great Fats
>Waller and Duke Ellengton.. From what I've been reading it all comes
>down that the movement he started had much more impact to the world
>than anything we know of regarding modern music. It's difficult to put
>my self in that time but listing to these lost rolls one can hear
>music that must have been on hold until today! (the history tells how
>his name was forgotton partially due to his work and inflence on
>Gershwin) On ebay I also found a old "Push Up" which was the
>predecessor to the player piano invented in Detroit. You push this
>large unit up to any piano and it uses the suction pumps to activate
>"servos" if you will to play the piano. I wish I could get it but it's
>in Ohio.. Anyway these songs are now available on CD on the
>Tradition Records label by Rycodisk. The CD is called James P. Johnson
>Running Wild 1921-1926.
>Ches #997
>
>
>
>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>Mellotronists-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

When you say "push-up", are you referring to what is also known as a
"vorsetzer": a box that rolls up to the keys of a piano with 'fingers' for each
key and plays them via a perforated roll??? I have seen one in action here in
the LA area but thought they were rare and expensive. Do tell more! Where? How
much?

I pumped (no cheeky comments please) many a mile on an Aeolian as a kid. That's
where I discovered Franz Von Suppe.

What is the best way to get an automatic piano?

Vance

> Ches!
>
> Interesting stuff!..... Player piano "Push-up"s are fabulous machines, and
> certainly in the UK, relatively undesirable, hence cheap. If you stumble
> across one, the most versatile is an Aeolian or Orchestrelle with the
> "Duo-Art" feature, which could be switched in to add automatic expression to
> the piano roll, provided it was of a compatible type. This is a DIGITAL
> system believe it or not!.... using air instead of electricity! These brands
> were termed "Pianola" and became a generic term for automatic player pianos.
>
> If you ever get the chance, try to get to a concert by Rex Lawson (I think
> he tours Worldwide) who with his partner take a brace of Duo-Art push-ups
> around with them and hook 'em up to a couple of concert grands. The brevity
> of a single piano roll performance is overcome by one "Pianolist" seamlessly
> picking up the performance from the other as the roll runs out. In this way,
> they perform long orchestral pieces.
>
> Anyway....Whatever you do, don't pay big money for ANY automatic piano at
> auction..... I'd imagine EBay to be the WORST way to buy one!!
>
> Cheers f'now!!
>
> C
> ----------
>
> >In my piano class I have been trying to get my instruction veerd
> >towards the Great American Ragtime sound.. In doing so I found a
> >little history that was lost until reciently. Rick, if you know of the
> >following please let me know what you think. Well I stumbled on some
> >old piano rolls of James P. Johnson dated 1921 - 1929(The Charlston
> >and more)!!!! The father of Stride, the teacher of the great Fats
> >Waller and Duke Ellengton.. From what I've been reading it all comes
> >down that the movement he started had much more impact to the world
> >than anything we know of regarding modern music. It's difficult to put
> >my self in that time but listing to these lost rolls one can hear
> >music that must have been on hold until today! (the history tells how
> >his name was forgotton partially due to his work and inflence on
> >Gershwin) On ebay I also found a old "Push Up" which was the
> >predecessor to the player piano invented in Detroit. You push this
> >large unit up to any piano and it uses the suction pumps to activate
> >"servos" if you will to play the piano. I wish I could get it but it's
> >in Ohio.. Anyway these songs are now available on CD on the
> >Tradition Records label by Rycodisk. The CD is called James P. Johnson
> >Running Wild 1921-1926.
> >Ches #997
> >
> >
> >
> >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> >Mellotronists-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> >
> >
> >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Mellotronists-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Dear Vance, All.

Re this subject, I am afraid that I was talking Partial Bollocks.

Interested parties, please note the following:

The "Piano-Player" (aka "push-up" or "vorsetzer") was the forerunner to the
automatic player piano, being introduced in the US in around 1897. The
popularity of these instruments (which were placed in front of a regular
piano, and operated the keys of same via small buckskin "fingers"!!) waned
from about 1907 when the mechanism became available already built in to a
piano cabinet. These instruments were called "Player Pianos"

I correctly stated that in the UK at least, these things are cheap....SOME
are!! There are two fundamentally different versions; one capable of playing
the entire 88 note compass of a piano keyboard and an earlier type playing
the middle 65 notes only. (A very rare 65/88 note version also exists) It is
only the 65 note version which is cheap!!... a good one changes hands for
around �250. The 88 note machine is the "Mk2" of the autopiano world!!....
It's much rarer, and can fetch up to �3000!

Player pianos, on the other hand ARE relatively cheap, owing to their
bulkiness when compared to a standard piano. A player version of a quality
British Upright piano (Chappell, Challen, Broadwood, etc......) is
invariably worth LESS than the standard non-player equivalent. The danger
is that owing to their cheapness, repairs, maintenance and restorative work
nearly always outprices the value of the instrument, so there are many
bodged examples out there. Sadly, most good player piano specialists are
over subscribed with work, and I can think of one repairer in Britain who is
capable of fine results, but who is such an unreliable pillock when it comes
to finishing repairs on schedule, he's not worth using. The eccentricity of
these instruments is often eclipsed by the technicians who work on them. And
many owners.

And remember!...Piano repairs are expensive. I know this, because I repair
them and charge for doing so. Piano repairs paid for my Mellotron. A player
piano can cost many thousands of ��� or $$$ to restore, and its final value
next to zero. The market for these is BAD!

Still!!...Fun tho!... and even better if you find a cheap one that's in g w
o. Further info can probably be obtained from the British Player Piano
Group. Go to:

http://www.PlayerPianoGroup.org.uk

And grow a silly beard.



Cheers f'now!


C


----------

>From: The Pomeroy Ranch <punchbowl4@...>
>To: mellotronists@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [Mellotronists] The most impacting music I have ever heard!!
>Date: Mon, Feb 11, 2002, 5:29 pm
>

>
>
>When you say "push-up", are you referring to what is also known as a
>"vorsetzer": a box that rolls up to the keys of a piano with 'fingers' for each
>key and plays them via a perforated roll??? I have seen one in action here in
>the LA area but thought they were rare and expensive. Do tell more! Where? How
>much?
>
>I pumped (no cheeky comments please) many a mile on an Aeolian as a kid. That's
>where I discovered Franz Von Suppe.
>
>What is the best way to get an automatic piano?
>
>Vance
>

>