Mellotronists

Ken and all,

Definitive statement time.  

1)The first note of the Russian choir is not looped in anyway

2)Note 20 - FHorn: there is an ambient sound of a car passing Rick's bijou 
residence

3)Note 22 - F Horn:the same car closes a door and leaves.

4)Note 25 - Glitch at front of note - now removed.  Never noticed it before 
as it really is at the very start.

Notes 20 and 22 will allow for some judicious eq that will all but eliminate 
the car noises.  But aren't we getting a little pedantic?  After all, we've 
all lived with the shuffling chairs on the classic MKII Violins, the thumps 
from the Cello etc etc.  These are real recordings, snap shots in time.  If 
you want perfection you aren't going to find it here!

Just off to put the MKII Flute through auto tune and then Cedar it......or 
maybe not.

Best,

Martin
<A HREF="http://www.members.aol.com/tronbros/index.htm">Streetly Electronics - all things MELLOTRONIC</A> - click this link..........

US East Coast Agent: Jimmy Moore - JMoore6397@...

In a message dated 11/21/02 6:23:05 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
tronbros@... writes:


> Subj:[Mellotronists] French Horn / Russian Choir 
> Date:11/21/02 6:23:05 AM Eastern Standard Time
> From:<A HREF="mailto:tronbros@...">tronbros@...</A>
> To:<A HREF="mailto:mellotronists@yahoogroups.com">mellotronists@yahoogroups.com</A>
> Sent from the Internet 
> 
> 
> 
> Ken and all,
> 
> Definitive statement time.  
> 
> 1)The first note of the Russian choir is not looped in anyway
> 
> 2)Note 20 - FHorn: there is an ambient sound of a car passing Rick's bijou 
> residence
> 
> 3)Note 22 - F Horn:the same car closes a door and leaves.
> 
> 4)Note 25 - Glitch at front of note - now removed.  Never noticed it before 
> as it really is at the very start.
> 
> Notes 20 and 22 will allow for some judicious eq that will all but 
> eliminate the car noises.

If meant to be serious, none of this describes what I'm hearing.

On the French horns, it sounds to me like there is a dropout problem on three 
notes.  I'm trying to find out if I caused it, or if it's something on the 
other end.  If so, maybe it can be fixed so that others don't have a similar 
problem.

On the Russian choir note, there's definitely something strange going on 
there, just with the one note.  Others can judge for themselves.  I'm just 
trying to help here.

Here's the link to the page with all these sounds:

<A HREF="http://www.tronsounds.com/badpops.htm">http://www.tronsounds.com/badpops.htm</A>


Let me know if there are any problems listening to the MP3's on this page.  
I've been having some trouble
with the Mp3s on my web site lately, for some reason.


  But aren't we getting a little pedantic?

No, just me. 

  After all, we've all lived with the shuffling 
> chairs on the classic MKII Violins, the thumps from the Cello etc etc.  
> These are real recordings, snap shots in time.  If you want perfection you 
> aren't going to find it here!

The reason that I'm pointing this out is because these are the NEW recordings 
(not from the 1950's), and if there's something which stands out, maybe it 
can be fixed and all will benefit.  Not looking for perfection,  if I were, I 
wouldn't own a Mellotron.  


> Just off to put the MKII Flute through auto tune and then Cedar it......or 
> maybe not.

Yeah, maybe not.


Ken M.

In a message dated 21/11/02 2:59:54 PM GMT Standard Time, kenmerb@... 
writes:


> On the French horns, it sounds to me like there is a dropout problem on 
> three notes.  I'm trying to find out if I caused it, or if it's something 
> on the other end.  If so, maybe it can be fixed so that others don't have a 
> similar problem.

There are no dropouts on the masters and for three dropouts to occur on the 
French Horn at 42 foot distance from each other during the recording process 
is an amazing coincidence.  It would have to be the most precise bit of bad 
luck in the history of bad luck.  We've issued several sets of this wonderful 
sound and it has only ever met with lust filled passion for Mr Blechta.  

> 
> On the Russian choir note, there's definitely something strange going on 
> there, just with the one note.  Others can judge for themselves.  I'm just 
> trying to help here

We have just listened to this and all three of us agree that it sounds 
perfectly fine.  It is not looped, it just is.  Checkout the waveform and 
you'll see it isn't.

As a conclusion, there are no fixes that need to be done apart from note 25 
of the French Horn which is now cured.

Byeeee,

Martin
<A HREF="http://www.members.aol.com/tronbros/index.htm">Streetly Electronics - all things MELLOTRONIC</A> - click this link..........

US East Coast Agent: Jimmy Moore - JMoore6397@...

In a message dated 11/21/02 10:18:13 AM Eastern Standard Time, TRONBROS 
writes:


> There are no dropouts on the masters and for three dropouts to occur on the 
> French Horn at 42 foot distance from each other during the recording 
> process is an amazing coincidence.

 > It would have to be the most precise bit of bad luck in the history of bad 
luck


Ditto on my end.   I can't figure out why the three different French horn 
notes are garbled, but both adjacent tracks on all three notes are problem 
free.  What are the odds of this?  It boggles the mind.

OK, time to move on to other things.  I've done my job by reporting this.

After my last e-mail, I turned on the radio and "Wonderwall" by Oasis was 
just beginning, complete with *in your face* cellos (those tapes are some of 
your handiwork, right Martin?)  Anyway, I took this as some kind of sign, but 
I wasn't sure of *what*.  Then, as the last note of the song played, you 
could distinctly hear the Mellotron stall.  Very obvious.  A real LOL moment 
for me.  I'm sure I've heard this before, but I never really paid attention.  
Kind of put things in perspective concerning the Russian Choir and French 
Horn sounds.

Ken M

In a message dated 21/11/02 17:13:11 GMT Standard Time, kenmerb@... 
writes:


> "Wonderwall" by Oasis ... as the last note of the song played, you could 
> distinctly hear the Mellotron stall.  Very obvious

Dear All,

Accused at work of extreme "nerdiness" at work this week due to this track as 
my colleagues are now not only convinced that I can identify a Mellotron on a 
recording but "Norm can identify a badly adjusted Mellotron on a recording". 
Time to go into hiding...

All the best,
Norm

In a message dated 11/21/2002 6:23:56 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
tronbros@... writes:


> 1)The first note of the Russian choir is not looped in anyway
> 
> 2)Note 20 - FHorn: there is an ambient sound of a car passing Rick's bijou 
> residence
> 
> 3)Note 22 - F Horn:the same car closes a door and leaves.
> 
> 4)Note 25 - Glitch at front of note - now removed.  Never noticed it before 
> as it really is at the very start.
> 
> Notes 20 and 22 will allow for some judicious eq that will all but 
> eliminate the car noises.  But aren't we getting a little pedantic?  After 
> all, we've all lived with the shuffling chairs on the classic MKII Violins, 
> the thumps from the Cello etc etc.  These are real recordings, snap shots 
> in time.  If you want perfection you aren't going to find it here!
> 
> Just off to put the MKII Flute through auto tune and then Cedar it......or 
> maybe not.

In agreement with Martin on this one.  Here in NYC, we call it "art".

Fritz M400#1697

In a message dated 11/21/2002 9:59:56 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
kenmerb@... writes:


> On the French horns, it sounds to me like there is a dropout problem on 
> three notes.  I'm trying to find out if I caused it, or if it's something 
> on the other end.  If so, maybe it can be fixed so that others don't have a 
> similar problem.
> 

My guess is that it might be something that inadvertently happened in your 
machine.
I have noticed that recording french horns can be very perplexing.  Slight 
phase shifts are very noticeable (one of the players moves a little too 
much....Yes, I'm serious). Things are more noticeable on such a pure tone to 
my ear, so if there was something in the recording, I would have imagined 
Rick or Streetly would have caught it.  I definately have noticed my tapes 
changing in timbre over these last three and a half years. Not a bad change, 
just changing.

Fritz

>My guess is that it might be something that inadvertently happened in your 
>machine.

My guess (FWIW) is that the French horn notes got messed up during the 
recording of Ken's tape set or maybe it's the tape stock, not in the 
mastering.  Rick and/or Martin would have caught the problems in the 
masters, I'm sure.  The sound is not unlike the burbles you'd hear in the 
soundtrack of an old movie---it's not cars or doors or Vicki inventing new 
four-letter words.

Another guess about something else:  The pops are static.  Where/How I do 
not know.  JB is leaning away from that, and I don't blame him, because to 
disagree with me usually means you wind up being correct.  Why it happens 
on only one station is beyond me, and why it builds up so fast and on only 
certain notes is, again, weird.  Heads going bad?  I have suggested to Ken 
to examine and clean all the connections in the box as a start.

A third guess about something different:  The Russian Choir is either 
looped on the source material or it's a bizarre recording accident, like 
one of the singers moved during the recording, like Fritz's French horn 
guy.  Only I think the Russian guy ran around the room really fast, doing a 
poor Leslie simulation.  :-)  One reason why the Russians may not be looped 
is they ran out of vodka...no, wait...is because the tail end of the note 
has a single voice finishing off the note (as some of them do---it's 
weird/funny to hear the aaahhhs die down to one voice and then stop).  It 
really does sound like the middle part of that lowest note is looped, 
though...bizarre.  Hey, it could be wave interference, a guy hopping on one 
leg hoping the note will finish so he could go the bathroom, or 
whatever.  Killer sound, though.

$.02, FWIW.

...kl...M400 #805 - worth more than $.02

Hey guys! I was in Russia a couple of months ago and I can tell you 
first hand there's not much to be singing about!!
Hey Martin, How's my little pub doin?
Ches



--- In Mellotronists@y..., fdoddy@a... wrote:
> In a message dated 11/21/2002 6:23:56 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
> tronbros@a... writes:
> 
> 
> > 1)The first note of the Russian choir is not looped in anyway
> > 
> > 2)Note 20 - FHorn: there is an ambient sound of a car passing 
Rick's bijou 
> > residence
> > 
> > 3)Note 22 - F Horn:the same car closes a door and leaves.
> > 
> > 4)Note 25 - Glitch at front of note - now removed.  Never noticed 
it before 
> > as it really is at the very start.
> > 
> > Notes 20 and 22 will allow for some judicious eq that will all 
but 
> > eliminate the car noises.  But aren't we getting a little 
pedantic?  After 
> > all, we've all lived with the shuffling chairs on the classic 
MKII Violins, 
> > the thumps from the Cello etc etc.  These are real recordings, 
snap shots 
> > in time.  If you want perfection you aren't going to find it here!
> > 
> > Just off to put the MKII Flute through auto tune and then Cedar 
it......or 
> > maybe not.
> 
> In agreement with Martin on this one.  Here in NYC, we call 
it "art".
> 
> Fritz M400#1697

In a message dated 11/23/02 6:02:02 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
ken@... writes:


> Subj:Re: [Mellotronists] French Horn / Russian Choir 
> Date:11/23/02 6:02:02 PM Eastern Standard Time
> From:<A HREF="mailto:ken@...">ken@...</A>
> To:<A HREF="mailto:mellotronists@yahoogroups.com">mellotronists@yahoogroups.com</A>
> Sent from the Internet 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> >My guess is that it might be something that inadvertently happened in your 
> 
> >machine.
> 
> My guess (FWIW) is that the French horn notes got messed up during the 
> recording of Ken's tape set or maybe it's the tape stock, not in the 
> mastering.  Rick and/or Martin would have caught the problems in the 
> masters, I'm sure.  The sound is not unlike the burbles you'd hear in the 
> soundtrack of an old movie---it's not cars or doors or Vicki inventing new 
> four-letter words.
> 

I agree 100% here, KL.  


> Another guess about something else:  The pops are static.  Where/How I do 
> not know.  JB is leaning away from that, and I don't blame him, because to 
> disagree with me usually means you wind up being correct.  Why it happens 
> on only one station is beyond me, and why it builds up so fast and on only 
> certain notes is, again, weird.  Heads going bad?  I have suggested to Ken 
> to examine and clean all the connections in the box as a start.
> 
> 

If the heads are going bad, they're only going bad when it's on station #1 
;-).

Also, to clarify, it doesn't happen only on certain notes.  I think it would 
happen randomly on any notes I played on bank #1, as long as I play more than 
one note at a time.  

OK, here's another clue.  I was playing MKII #247 tonight, and I wanted to be 
100% sure that the pops only occur on station one.  So, I cycled through all 
of the other stations, and no pops on any station but #1.  However, after I 
had just completed giving station #2 a workout, I pushed button #1 on the 
bank selector.  Between the time I pushed the station #1 selector and the 
time the drums rolled, I heard "pop, pop".  This (simultaneous multiple pops) 
has happened before, when the drums started to roll from station 1 to station 
2.  Not sure if this means the problem is related to the station selector 
switch, or the motion of the tapes on the drum as it starts to roll.

I love a good Mellotron mystery (as long as it can be solved).

One other thing I noticed also.  The MKII sounds much better cranked up loud. 
 My neighbor must have been watching his home theater system tonight, because 
it sounded like there was a sustained earthquake next door.  This used to 
piss me off, but now I use it as an opportunity to blast the MKII.  He can't 
very well come next door and tell me to turn it down, right?  Anyway, the 
hair *does* stand on end when the volume is turned up and the sound rings 
through those Wharfedale speakers.  But, I guess we already new that.

Ken M.