Mellotronists

Hello all,

Due to a combination of sitting here at work in front of a large number of
extremely high-tech but ultimately boring machines and having way too much
coffee in my bloodstream, I wanted to spark up some conversations and see
what other tape-based-sample-playback nuts have to say:

Magnetic fields from other instruments?

As we all well know the Mellotron 400 was really designed to hold up
Minimoogs. The dimensions of the lid just cannot be a coincidence. A 2600
barely fits, and String Ensembles hang over the sides (String Ensembles are
kind of a bad word anyway, in this crowd). So where the heck am I going with
this... oh yeah, sometimes I move stuff around because I think that the
right keyboard setup will somehow inspire me to create that killer album and
I will become a great and popular musician. In the process I find that there
are certain instruments that when placed upon my creaky old Hammond cause a
nasty hum to come out the Leslie. I have tracked this down to the location
of the mains transformer in the offending instrument relative to the drawbar
matching transformer in the Hammond. So I sometimes think - what effect can
this have on my Mellotron tapes? Any? None? A little?

1/4" tape in a 3/8" machine?

Done it, seems to work. Long ago (before I was married, long before the
Advent Of The Small Children) I lay me down on the floor with my TEAC and
striped all four channels across with the intro monolog and music for the
Outer Limits ("there is nothing wrong with your television set" "do not
attempt to adjust the picture"). I split it all up into 8-second bits, which
this program material actually supports quite well. My reasoning for using
all four tracks was that the tape would wander around in the combs but if
the track selector were in the B position there would always be audio coming
through. It worked! Now that I have leaked out to the world exactly what
kind of strange weirdo I really am (or used to be), I was wondering how
others have made this work. Are there any of the fabled 1/4" combs out
there? Did they come with some kind of modified detent plate for the track
selector? How many other tricks are out there?

I Am Afraid To Look At My Motor Brushes

There. I said it. I know they are in there. I know how to find them. I am
not afraid of that. I am afraid of the consequences of said action. Do
replacements exist and where. Or am I just being paranoid.

Why Is Every Other Word Capitalized Suddenly?

Okay like I said too much coffee.

Best Regards,

- Gene

M400S #1023
M400S #1213
M400S #1289

<< Magnetic fields from other instruments?>>

I once had a problem with the black midi controller that sat on one of your 
machines at progwest. I went for that model (the evolution 49 key job, which 
now has a more sophisticated mk249c incarnation, the grey job on y'r other 
400 that night, with the 12 assignable controller knobs), because they were 
very cheap and they were the right size to fit on a 400, leaving enough room 
behind for our roland sh1000 (the only keyboard I have that's older than 
1098). this cheap midi controller put a nasty midi-type chatter on the 
'tron's output the first time I used it, but after I modified it's power 
supply and volume control circuit, I tried it again and all was fine. mystery.

btw- why don't controller keyboards come (like mine are modified to be) so 
that a) you can plug in a volume pedal and b) when you do, the on-board 
volume control functions so as to limit the upper range of the pedal? 
and guess where that idea came from.....

never had a gauss/maxwell type problem though.


>>As we all well know the Mellotron 400 was really designed to hold up 
Minimoogs.<< 

funny- I thought they were designed to hold up gigs....  or traffic.... or 
studio sessions....

>>sometimes I move stuff around because I think that the right keyboard setup 
will somehow inspire me to create that killer album<<

sometimes I move stuff around for the same sort of reason, but in my 
relatively limited real-estate, the 400 stays in the same corner these days 
because it fits and I can just get our an1x on top. it hangs over the edges a 
bit but it looks ok. people have sat on it in studios once or twice too. what 
do other owners park on their lids?

>>1/4" tape in a 3/8" machine?
Done it, seems to work.......the tape would wander around in the 
combs.....Are there any of the fabled 1/4" combs out there? Did they come 
with some kind of modified detent plate for the track
selector? How many other tricks are out there?<<

I have a set of the combs (thanks to streetly) and the modified 2-track 
selector assembly, though I'd already modified 1098 in a strat-stylee so that 
crossfades between adjacent tracks could be performed. the combs helped when 
I was using 1/4" loops in the 'tron, but later we acquired a tapeset (ex-TD) 
with a mixture of 1/4" & 3/8" and the 1/4" bits played fine with just the 
tape-retention washers to keep the tapes straight. I think the 
disproportionate back-tension helped; the 1/4" sound effects certainly zipped 
back into the frame.
ken L may have made some combs from jpegs I sent him; ken, did this ever 
happen? gene could easily do the same, I'd imagine.

>>I Am Afraid To Look At My Motor Brushes<<

ah. over to martin & john. I've never been further than the stall-fuses, or 
spraying aerosol-oil into the bearings occasionally.

as for other tricks- first mod I did was the half-speed pull switch on the 
pitch control. great on brass and church organ, and spooky on the choirs and 
cello. origins of the idea lost in the proverbial mists, but I did this in 
1991 shortly after acquiring the machine. if anyone knows of it being done 
earlier (i.e. rather than just recording a normal 'tron at the wrong speed), 
I'd be interested to hear.

duncan/400nr1098, currently supporting three disgraced emu samplers and their 
useless syquest carts.

In a message dated 11/19/2002 2:30:04 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
gene@... writes:


> Magnetic fields from other instruments?
> 
> In the process I find that there
> are certain instruments that when placed upon my creaky old Hammond cause a
> nasty hum to come out the Leslie. I have tracked this down to the location
> of the mains transformer in the offending instrument relative to the 
> drawbar
> matching transformer in the Hammond. 

When I first got my MKII, Ken L and I were taking her through the paces, 
while I had Martin Smith on the phone, giving me instructions.  Any time I 
came close to the MKII, there was a loud, annoying hum that came out of the 
speakers.  Ken L could go near it and no hum.  Talk about rejection - it was 
almost as if #247 was allergic to Merbler (or maybe my magnetic personality 
was having an effect).  We soon discovered that the cordless phone I was 
holding was causing the hum whenever I came near.   

Currently I am having another preplexing problem which is proving much harder 
to solve.  Seems that #247 is now making a loud "popping" sound whenever I 
play multiple notes, bank #1 only, RH side only.  It's almost as if it's 
rejecting my choice of sounds on that bank ;-).  This is causing despair on 
both sides of the Atlantic at the moment.  Brilliant solutions are welcome.


Ken M.

Never had anything electromagnetic come over audio in a tron, but we did
have a *very* microphonic machine at last year's progwest. Big feedback at
the beginning of a set, and through skillful audio network signal routing
manipulation and brilliant on-stage troubleshooting (also referred to as
"mute buttons") narrowed it down to the poor white beastie. A couple of
investigative shockwave impulses (also referred to as "knocks") on the lid
of the tron came over the monitors loudly and cleanly. Uh, what the heck did
we do.... I think we just turned the wedges away and went on with the set.
Not one of my trons that time. My suspicion was that the headblock mounting
was somehow hosed up - anybody seen this before?

Hey that brings up another question - I think I read somewhere that the
headblock needs to be electrically isolated from the rest of the aluminum
(oops make that aluminium) frame. True, False? What happens if it's not?

Best Regards,

- Gene

Hi Ken,
I don't know why this should happen only with multiple notes. I 
sometimes get a "bump" sound at the beginning of the odd note 
and that's crap on the tape. If I clean it just before the heads with 
IPA it goes away. Is your pad assembly tightened down properly? 
I'm wondering if it's moving when you engage a full chord.

On the magnetic fields thing - does anyone know if it's safe to put 
a pc moniter ontop of a tron. I don't want to wipe me tapes!
John
M300#005

To:             	mellotronists@yahoogroups.com

From:           	kenmerb@...
Date sent:      	Tue, 19 Nov 2002 16:41:28 EST
Subject:        	Re: [Mellotronists] Various topics

In a message dated 11/19/2002 2:30:04 PM Eastern Standard 
Time, gene@... writes:



Magnetic fields from other instruments?

In the process I find that there
are certain instruments that when placed upon my creaky 
old Hammond cause a
nasty hum to come out the Leslie. I have tracked this down 
to the location
of the mains transformer in the offending instrument relative 
to the drawbar
matching transformer in the Hammond.


When I first got my MKII, Ken L and I were taking her through the 
paces, while I had Martin Smith on the phone, giving me 
instructions. Any time I came close to the MKII, there was a loud, 
annoying hum that came out of the speakers. Ken L could go near 
it and no hum. Talk about rejection - it was almost as if #247 was 
allergic to Merbler (or maybe my magnetic personality was having 
an effect). We soon discovered that the cordless phone I was 
holding was causing the hum whenever I came near. 

Currently I am having another preplexing problem which is proving 
much harder to solve. Seems that #247 is now making a loud 
"popping" sound whenever I play multiple notes, bank #1 only, RH 
side only. It's almost as if it's rejecting my choice of sounds on 
that bank ;-). This is causing despair on both sides of the Atlantic 
at the moment. Brilliant solutions are welcome.


Ken M.


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ferrograph@... wrote:

> what do other owners park on their lids?

A Yamaha DX7.  That's somewhat accidental.  By the time I acquired the DX7, I had
three A-frames full of other gear, so the top of the Mellotron was the only space
available.  But I do like the seeming contradiction. (-8

John McIntyre
Physics - Astronomy Domine Dept
Michigan State University
mcintyre@...

> From: "J.K.Beresford" <j.k.beresford@...>
   > Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 09:17:00 -0000
   > 
   > On the magnetic fields thing - does anyone know if it's safe to
   > put a pc moniter ontop of a tron. I don't want to wipe me tapes!

PC Monitor?  Jeeze, why not a microwave oven?  

Or a TV set?

Or a drill press?  

Chia pet?  

How about a hibachi?

Man, oh man...  :-)

  -- Don

-- 
Don Tillman
Palo Alto, California, USA
don@...
http://www.till.com

John McIntyre wrote:

>  ferrograph@... wrote:
>
> > what do other owners park on their lids?
>
> A Yamaha DX7.  That's somewhat accidental.  By the time I acquired the
> DX7, I had
> three A-frames full of other gear, so the top of the Mellotron was the
> only space
> available.  But I do like the seeming contradiction. (-8
>
> John McIntyre
> Physics - Astronomy Domine Dept
> Michigan State University
> mcintyre@...

John!

How the hell are you? Long time, no hear. How's that first Streetly tape
frame doing?

Rick

You know those magnets that they pick-up cars with?  Don't put one on 
top of your 'tron.

Other than demag'ing the heads regularly, don't worry about magnetic 
fields harming tapes.  The speaker magnets in a MKII are in close 
proximity to the tapes and it's not a problem.

Neutrinos and the other particles in the lepton family are passing 
through, the one who's known as you, and yet you'll never know they 
do.

X-Rays are another issue....

Rick Blechta  (using Clay's computer)

I suppose that since magnetism is one of those inverse-square things, the
distance from the tapes to any device's mains transformer is going to put
the de-mag threat "down in the mud". There are things bigger than leptons
going around, too - I built a geiger counter recently and it pops several
times a minute... if you imagine the tube getting hit by raindrops at that
rate, you can visualize the rain shower of gamma rays etc. that we all walk
and sleep in. I'm more worried about the RAM in my sampler than I am about
my tapes!

Best Regards,

- Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: ceccles_ca [mailto:clay123@...]
Sent: Wednesday, November 20, 2002 9:31 AM
To: Mellotronists@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Mellotronists] Re: Various topics


You know those magnets that they pick-up cars with?  Don't put one on 
top of your 'tron.

Other than demag'ing the heads regularly, don't worry about magnetic 
fields harming tapes.  The speaker magnets in a MKII are in close 
proximity to the tapes and it's not a problem.

Neutrinos and the other particles in the lepton family are passing 
through, the one who's known as you, and yet you'll never know they 
do.

X-Rays are another issue....

Rick Blechta  (using Clay's computer)

> When I first got my MKII, Ken L and I were taking her through the paces,
> while I had Martin Smith on the phone, giving me instructions.  Any time I
> came close to the MKII, there was a loud, annoying hum that came out of the
> speakers.

That would be Ken's playing.

Mike Dickson (tron@...) M400 #996
The Official Cynic of Streetly Electronics
Streetly Sample Library http://www.blackcat.demon.co.uk/tron/

In a message dated 11/20/02 12:31:44 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
clay123@... writes:


> Neutrinos and the other particles in the lepton family are passing 
> through, the one who's known as you, and yet you'll never know they 
> do

OK, Clay, I thought this sounded familiar.  ;-).  

<A HREF="http://www.nalyric.co.kr/lyrics/2/80852.html">http://www.nalyric.co.kr/lyrics/2/80852.html</A>


Ken M.

<< A couple of investigative shockwave impulses (also referred to as 
"knocks") >>

ah, "percussion maintenance". aka "borrowing the drummer's screwdriver".  the 
heads are supposed to be earthed (grounded) to the pre-amp and not to any 
part of the frame; this is because there're 35 of them and a shit-load of 
gain required for succesful operation. each note adds another 3dB, more or 
less... so any earth currents running around the chassis would be amplified. 
there's something martin or someone else will add about dc coupling and 
gaussing up the heads, which I forget at the moment. I had a corroded 
belling-lee connector going into my pre-amp box (ouch) which I replaced with 
a hard-cable before i knew about this issue, and never had any problems. 
while the corroded connector and old cable was there, I'd get interesting 
crackles (as on "rosemary's baby" on our first album) and occasional 
microphony. JB or martin replaced my cable with a new belling-lee but I think 
they left my extra-thick earth cable in- maybe the pre-amp is decoupled now, 
I'll have to look.

d/m400nr1098

Ah ha!!

So let me get this straight - my "head block not isolated from rest of
frame" question and my "ever seen a microphonic Mellotron" question have
inadvertantly collided with each other! This happens to me quite often, I'll
run up to somebody and start yapping and then say "Oh!" and "Thanks!" and
then run away without that person ever uttering a word.

So what does Steve think about your drummer jokes? Hey wait, I have a link
to musician jokes...

http://users.bentonrea.com/~sasquatch/musicjokes/index.html

(there must be a list of Mellotron jokes somewhere...)

Best Regards,

- Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: ferrograph@... [mailto:ferrograph@...]
Sent: Wednesday, November 20, 2002 2:00 PM
To: mellotronists@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Mellotronists] Various topics


<< A couple of investigative shockwave impulses (also referred to as 
"knocks") >>

ah, "percussion maintenance". aka "borrowing the drummer's screwdriver".
the 
heads are supposed to be earthed (grounded) to the pre-amp and not to any 
part of the frame; this is because there're 35 of them and a shit-load of 
gain required for succesful operation. each note adds another 3dB, more or 
less... so any earth currents running around the chassis would be amplified.

there's something martin or someone else will add about dc coupling and 
gaussing up the heads, which I forget at the moment. I had a corroded 
belling-lee connector going into my pre-amp box (ouch) which I replaced with

a hard-cable before i knew about this issue, and never had any problems. 
while the corroded connector and old cable was there, I'd get interesting 
crackles (as on "rosemary's baby" on our first album) and occasional 
microphony. JB or martin replaced my cable with a new belling-lee but I
think 
they left my extra-thick earth cable in- maybe the pre-amp is decoupled now,

I'll have to look.

d/m400nr1098

> > what do other owners park on their lids?

My own 70's analog powered prog tower is #886 with a pair of rare Korg
polyphonics from 1977 and 1978, a Korg PolyEnsemble P with a Korg
PolyEnsemble S sitting above it on an old USS A-frame that doesn't see the
stage any more.  I've also been known to put an X5D on top of the Mellotron,
just for fun.

JS

----- Original Message -----

From: NormLeete@...

To: Mellotronists@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Thursday, November 21, 2002 12:34 PM

Subject: Re: [Mellotronists] Various topics

In a message dated 21/11/02 04:12:33 GMT Standard Time, jonesalley@... writes:

> > what do other owners park on their lids?

Currently, I have a rev 2 Prophet 5 on ol' 1226, which of course sits on a little cobbled-together stand which straddles a set of Taurus 1 bass pedals. Nice fit and strangely satisfying. For a year or two I had an awful stack: [from the ground up] Taurus 1; Mellotron; String Ensemble, ARP ProDGX; and topping it all off a Roland SH-7. How it remained standing for the duration, I'll never know. It even withstood a decent sized earthquake, which is more than I can say of many structures around here.

All I can say about the snippits of the russian choir that I've heard, is that it sure is the most russian sounding group of indivuals I can recall hearing. Every singer is exuding pure orthodox russianness with every note they are singing. I'm afraid I'd start trying to play chunks of "Boris Godunov" when I was really working on "South Side Of the Sky" Or is this just my middle america, whitebread, knee jerk reaction? I'd love to own the Russian Choir sounds actually, but would need to have the standard choir first.

PT

> what do other owners park on their lids

#805 has little wheels on it and is rolled under an "H" stand on which 
there's currently a PolySix.  This way I can roll the 'tron out and back 
easily for a tape change.

Yes, I did the Minimoog-on-Tron thing just to do it...and just once...and 
all I could stand was about 10 seconds of looking at it.  Horrors!  :-)

Poor Mini #6128 hasn't been feeling well, though.  It's mostly working now, 
just one last problem to try to fix (hoping some new polystyrene caps will 
do it).  I just haven't gotten around to it.  oy.

...kl...M400 #805 - rollin' rollin' rollin'

* Ken Leonard - Web Table of Contents:  http://www.kleonard.com
* Get Outdoors New England:  http://www.GONewEngland.org
** GONewEngland is a neat, fun, and free Internet Bulletin Board
** for outdoor activities in/around the New England area--and beyond!

On Sunday, November 24, 2002, at 08:20  pm, Ken Leonard wrote:

>> what do other owners park on their lids
>
> #805 has little wheels on it and is rolled under an "H" stand on which
> there's currently a PolySix.  This way I can roll the 'tron out and 
> back
> easily for a tape change.
>
> Yes, I did the Minimoog-on-Tron thing just to do it...and just 
> once...and
> all I could stand was about 10 seconds of looking at it.  Horrors!  :-)

.... Oh dear... Is this set-up something of a cliche then?... Ooops!

Check out picture on the "Pics" page of
http://www.technostalgia.org


>
> Poor Mini #6128 hasn't been feeling well, though.  It's mostly working 
> now,
> just one last problem to try to fix (hoping some new polystyrene caps 
> will
> do it).  I just haven't gotten around to it.  oy.

Mini in pic is none too healthy either.... it plays a fifth or so below 
actual pitch!

C

> > Yes, I did the Minimoog-on-Tron thing just to do it...and just
> > once...and
> > all I could stand was about 10 seconds of looking at it.  Horrors!  :-)
>
>.... Oh dear... Is this set-up something of a cliche then?... Ooops!

Yawp.

>Check out picture on the "Pics" page of
>http://www.technostalgia.org

Heh...805 is a white beastie with little black feet, making it just that 
much worse...

I should've taken a picture.

Maybe not.

>Mini in pic is none too healthy either.... it plays a fifth or so below
>actual pitch!

I'm assuming that all the tuning/ranging/scaling is correct on it, 
right?  Can't help you if it's not that simple---I can barely fix 
mine!  Although if I turn on osc mod in mine the pitch will drop about a 
step or two, and I was told that it's a ground problem (a better ground is 
needed, I think to the power supply, but I don't recall exactly).

...kl...

* Ken Leonard - Web Table of Contents:  http://www.kleonard.com
* Get Outdoors New England:  http://www.GONewEngland.org
** GONewEngland is a neat, fun, and free Internet Bulletin Board
** for outdoor activities in/around the New England area--and beyond!