Mellotronists

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In a message dated 22/04/2007 04:26:39 GMT Standard Time,  
mellotronmadness@... writes:

Is a  real tron useable as a solo instrument?
Definitely! Mk2 Flutes are brilliant with a bit of key click. My  
favourite?..... Elton Johns brilliant cover of Lucy in the sky with Diamonds.  Wonderful! 
Actually, there's also Daniel which is equally as memorable. 
Andy K

kinchmusic@... wrote:

>  In a message dated 22/04/2007 04:26:39 GMT Standard Time,
> mellotronmadness@... writes:
>
>      Is a real tron useable as a solo instrument?
>
> Definitely! Mk2 Flutes are brilliant with a bit of key click. My
> favourite?..... Elton Johns brilliant cover of Lucy in the sky with Diamonds.
> Wonderful!Actually, there's also Daniel which is equally as memorable.Andy K
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
> Greetings Andy and gang,  Equally brilliant but relatively unknown
> is Rod Argent of Zombies prominently using MK-II flutes in "Changes".
>
>
> This is heard on LP/CD  "Oracle and Odyssey" . Same release as their
> pop. hit "Time Of The Season."    The track just prior is also
> replete with MK-II flutes,strings, and sounds like MK-II rock guitar
> lightly sprinkled within.   Have a listen !
>
>
> Thanks Martingle  Smythe  for sharing that info some years back .
>
> Cheers, -- JK  (lawn still sprinkled with traces of snow and pine needles )
>

--- In Mellotronists@yahoogroups.com, Mark Pring 
<mellotronmadness@...> wrote:
>
> Do many of the group play the mellotron as a solo instrument? I 
only have access to M-tron, a situation I am hoping to remedy, it  
sounds ok used as a backing instrument using block chords with lots 
of reverb but I spent quite a lot of time this morning trying to use 
it as solo instrument and I realise that most of the group is right, 
it sounds terrible and not just my playing! The left hand drowns out 
the right really easily and anything played at higher end of the 
keyboard is as irritating as finger nails on a blackboard.
> 
> Is a real tron useable as a solo instrument?  I ask because I 
don't play in a group and am not likely to do in the near future.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Mark
> 
> Hi Mark   Need to mention this is just one person's opinion so for 
what it's worth:
   Solos, yes, ,and off the top of my head King Crimson's Lizard Lp 
is packed with tron leads, most of the Tron work of Passport, 
Kraftwerk's Trans Europe Express, come to think of it Neptunes which 
I believe also uses the M-tron. 
Most depends on how you shape the sound you are playing, that is if 
you are using the 400 3 string patch you can eq some of the highs 
down and boost the mids a little to sweeten it up.  The flutes on 
the other hand you may add some highs. Again if you are using 
strings or brass patches and playing 3 note chords with the left 
hand and one note lead on the right, the lead will be drowned out. 
Answer here, overdub the lead.  Maybe in a live situation, again 
since you are in the sampler domain, you would assign higher volume 
for the right half of keyboard. Again this depends on the 
flexibility of what you have to shape the sound with.  Processors 
with  only preset definitions are almost useless.  You need infinite 
control of delay or reverb to make it work. Another thing to try is 
layer your lead part to male it stand out. Detune each layer 
slightly away from the source.  The E4 sampler is outstanding  for 
this.  Try experimenting like this instead of "just out of box" and 
see if there is a difference,  and if you haven't yet heard, check 
out the "dueling mandolins" recently posted here.   Take care, Doug 
>

On Sun, 22 Apr 2007, Doug Berg wrote:

> > Hi Mark   Need to mention this is just one person's opinion so for
> what it's worth:
>    Solos, yes, ,and off the top of my head King Crimson's Lizard Lp
> is packed with tron leads, most of the Tron work of Passport,
> Kraftwerk's Trans Europe Express, come to think of it Neptunes which
> I believe also uses the M-tron.



not to pick nits, but kraftwerk's TEE is actually an orchestron, and
not a mellotron. see:
http://www.optigan.com/tidbits.html#6

it's an easy one to mistake for a mellotron, and for years that's
what i thought it was also. another is popol vuh's "Aguirre". it
sounds like a mellotron choir, but it's some oddity called a
"choir organ" or something like that [or WAS it?]:

The music sets the tone. It is haunting, ecclesiastical, human and yet
something else. It is by Florian Fricke, whose band Popol Vuh (named for
the Mayan creation myth) has contributed the soundtracks to many Herzog
films. For this opening sequence, Herzog told me, We used a strange
instrument, which we called a 'choir-organ.' It has inside it three dozen
different tapes running parallel to each other in loops. ... All these
tapes are running at the same time, and there is a keyboard on which you
can play them like an organ so that [it will] sound just like a human
choir but yet, at the same time, very artificial and really quite eerie.''

this same sound seems to turn up on a number of german prog albums. makes
me wonder if it was in a studio that a bunch of these bands recorded at.
conny plank had a mellotron in his studio, and that turns up time and
time again on different records.

sorry... drifting off-topic for this thread...

...jeff

--- In Mellotronists@yahoogroups.com, jeffc@... wrote:
>> 
> 
> not to pick nits, but kraftwerk's TEE is actually an orchestron, 
and
> not a mellotron. see:
> http://www.optigan.com/tidbits.html#6
> 
> it's an easy one to mistake for a mellotron, and for years that's
> what i thought it was also. another is popol vuh's "Aguirre". it
> sounds like a mellotron choir, but it's some oddity called a
> "choir organ" or something like that [or WAS it?]:
> 


>Re:   Thanks for that one Jeff, could that mystery choir be a 
Roland 330 vocorder? 
Back in the radio days when Kraftwerk brought out their 2nd lp, Man 
Machine, we were playing "We Are The Robots" both on air, and in the 
Clubs and got to see them in N.Y. courtest of Capitol, and I 
remember seeing a 400 on stage, or so I thought. But who remembers 
the 70's?  Doug

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----- Original Message ----- 

From: "Doug Berg" <caddyfam@...>
To: <Mellotronists@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2007 8:09 PM
Subject: [Mellotronists] Re: Solo trons


> --- In Mellotronists@yahoogroups.com, jeffc@... wrote:
>>>
>>
>> not to pick nits, but kraftwerk's TEE is actually an orchestron,
> and
>> not a mellotron. see:
>> http://www.optigan.com/tidbits.html#6
>>
>> it's an easy one to mistake for a mellotron, and for years that's
>> what i thought it was also. another is popol vuh's "Aguirre". it
>> sounds like a mellotron choir, but it's some oddity called a
>> "choir organ" or something like that [or WAS it?]:
>>
>
>
>>Re:   Thanks for that one Jeff, could that mystery choir be a
> Roland 330 vocorder?
> Back in the radio days when Kraftwerk brought out their 2nd lp, Man
> Machine, we were playing "We Are The Robots" both on air, and in the
> Clubs and got to see them in N.Y. courtest of Capitol, and I
> remember seeing a 400 on stage, or so I thought. But who remembers
> the 70's?  Doug


Er, 'The Man Machine' was something like their 7th album, Doug... And while 
they used an Orchestron extensively, there's also some 'Tron on 
'Trans-Europe Express' - compare the two different string sounds. The 
'choir-organ' seems to've been an early European one-off attempt to use the 
Chamberlin/Mellotron idea, with infinite sustain. Also used by Amon Duul II.

Andy T.
M400 #1145

On Sun, 22 Apr 2007, Doug Berg wrote:

> --- In Mellotronists@yahoogroups.com, jeffc@... wrote:
> >>
> >
> > not to pick nits, but kraftwerk's TEE is actually an orchestron,
> and
> > not a mellotron. see:
> > http://www.optigan.com/tidbits.html#6
> >
> > it's an easy one to mistake for a mellotron, and for years that's
> > what i thought it was also. another is popol vuh's "Aguirre". it
> > sounds like a mellotron choir, but it's some oddity called a
> > "choir organ" or something like that [or WAS it?]:
> >
>
>
> >Re:   Thanks for that one Jeff, could that mystery choir be a
> Roland 330 vocorder?



nope.
i own one of those [bought it brand new many years ago] and
i know the sound quite well, and both of those recordings FAR
pre-date the vp-330 vocoder plus. though i DID actually buy it
as a mellotron substitute, thinking i would NEVER be able to
actually own one.


> Back in the radio days when Kraftwerk brought out their 2nd lp, Man
> Machine, we were playing "We Are The Robots" both on air, and in the
> Clubs and got to see them in N.Y. courtest of Capitol, and I
> remember seeing a 400 on stage, or so I thought. But who remembers
> the 70's?  Doug


jeez, i feel like real jerk for pointing this out too,
but "man machine" was not their 2nd lp. radioactivity,
autobahn, ralf and florian all pre-date man machine.
[i think even TEE was the release before that one]
[and there were 2 very rare and somewhat oscure releases
prior to ALL of them, plus the one called "organisation"
which was them before the name kraftwerk was theirs]

sorry man :=)
call me a jerk - it's okay.

i remember the 70s well enough to recall some amazing
drugs back then... but that's all in the distant past.
[hash oil? anyone remembr that stuff?]

i saw them in, i think it was, 1975 at the tower theatre
in upper darby pa, then again [year unknown] for the
computer world tour at a disco in new jersey. the 1975
show is a total blur [thanks to the drugs] so i have
no ideawhat theywere using [and i was not as into the
gear as i am now, or even was just a few years later]
the computer world tour was one in which all the gear
was built into a large semi-circular console, so other
than the "toys" used for pocket calculator, all of it
was totally obscured and hidden. the 1975 show was the
tour they did for autobahn - i recall hearing that track
played IN ITS ENTIRETY [all 22.5 minutes of it!] on a
radio station hear in philadelphia when it was new.
it changed my life forever.
[not necessarily for the better]

...jeff
[who needs to use the rubber conditionaer to annoy
the wife with, but i'll wait until she is over
her cold for maximum impact - see what a jerk i am?]

> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

In a message dated 22/04/2007 23:02:29 GMT Standard Time,  
andy.thompson@... writes:

an early  European one-off attempt to use the 
Chamberlin/Mellotron idea, with  infinite sustain


I thought it was a modified Mellotron...
 
Norm

--- In Mellotronists@yahoogroups.com, "Andy Thompson" <> Er, 'The 
Man Machine' was something like their 7th album, Doug... And while 
> they used an Orchestron extensively, there's also some 'Tron on 
> 'Trans-Europe Express' - compare the two different string sounds. 
The 
> 'choir-organ' seems to've been an early European one-off attempt 
to use the 
> Chamberlin/Mellotron idea, with infinite sustain. Also used by 
Amon Duul II.
> 
> Andy T.
> M400 #1145
>


 Re:  My apologies for not doing Kraftwerk homework. Those were my 
radio and club years and with all the records that came my way 
really didn't have time for extensive research. Thanks for the info 
though..Doug

----- Original Message -----

From: NormLeete@...

To: Mellotronists@...m

Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2007 11:18 PM

Subject: Re: [Mellotronists] Re: Solo trons

In a message dated 22/04/2007 23:02:29 GMT Standard Time, andy.thompson@... writes:

an early European one-off attempt to use the
Chamberlin/Mellotron idea, with infinite sustain

I thought it was a modified Mellotron...

Norm

;

Norm

What little I've been able to find out about it seems to indicate that it was built in the '50s! It also sounds unbelievably complex to play, making the 'MkII rhythms' technique dound like a doddle. :-) It allegedly resides in 'a west German museum' now, so if ANYONE has any idea which...

Andy T.

let's not forget the "Singing Keyboard" from the 1930s, which was a tron/Chamberlin idea 
using movie film as the medium and light to read it a/la Orchestron. I'd love to hear any 
examples of it....somebody back then had to have made a recording....





--- In Mellotronists@yahoogroups.com, "Andy Thompson" <andy.thompson@...> wrote:
>
> 
>   ----- Original Message ----- 
>   From: NormLeete@... 
>   To: Mellotronists@yahoogroups.com 
>   Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2007 11:18 PM
>   Subject: Re: [Mellotronists] Re: Solo trons
> 
> 
>   In a message dated 22/04/2007 23:02:29 GMT Standard Time, andy.thompson@... 
writes:
>     an early European one-off attempt to use the 
>     Chamberlin/Mellotron idea, with infinite sustain
>   I thought it was a modified Mellotron...
> 
>   Norm
> 
> 
>   Norm
> 
>   What little I've been able to find out about it seems to indicate that it was built in the 
'50s! It also sounds unbelievably complex to play, making the 'MkII rhythms' technique 
dound like a doddle.  :-)   It allegedly resides in 'a west German museum' now, so if 
ANYONE has any idea which...

> 
>   Andy T.
>

Hi, all-
   Thought I would throw another wrench in the fire
(probably replete with erroneous 70's memories, too).
It seems I read once that 10cc used a large multitrack
recorder to create a playable choir of their own
voices on the song "I'm Not In Love".  Once the vocal
tracks were laid down on the same area of tape, the
section was cut out, and spliced in a loop.  It was
loaded back on the machine (with appropriate tension),
and played off a mixing console using the solo buttons
as a keyboard.  I don't know where I read this, but it
stuck in my mind for years.  Maybe a similar idea was
used by those clever Germans.

   Bruce Daily
    M400 1221

P.S. I admit to playing my 'tron "solo" in my living
room (no mixer yet).  So far my friends just smile,
scratch their heads, and mumble something about "could
be done digitally".  Oh well, what do they know?  I'm
happy.



--- charel196 <charel196@...> wrote:

> let's not forget the "Singing Keyboard" from the
> 1930s, which was a tron/Chamberlin idea 
> using movie film as the medium and light to read it
> a/la Orchestron. I'd love to hear any 
> examples of it....somebody back then had to have
> made a recording....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --- In Mellotronists@yahoogroups.com, "Andy
> Thompson" <andy.thompson@...> wrote:
> >
> > 
> >   ----- Original Message ----- 
> >   From: NormLeete@... 
> >   To: Mellotronists@yahoogroups.com 
> >   Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2007 11:18 PM
> >   Subject: Re: [Mellotronists] Re: Solo trons
> > 
> > 
> >   In a message dated 22/04/2007 23:02:29 GMT
> Standard Time, andy.thompson@... 
> writes:
> >     an early European one-off attempt to use the 
> >     Chamberlin/Mellotron idea, with infinite
> sustain
> >   I thought it was a modified Mellotron...
> > 
> >   Norm
> > 
> > 
> >   Norm
> > 
> >   What little I've been able to find out about it
> seems to indicate that it was built in the 
> '50s! It also sounds unbelievably complex to play,
> making the 'MkII rhythms' technique 
> dound like a doddle.  :-)   It allegedly resides in
> 'a west German museum' now, so if 
> ANYONE has any idea which...
> > 
> >   Andy T.
> >
> 
> 
> 


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I read that same information in an article in Rolling Stone that was 
contemporaneous with the release of the album, and this was a pretty concise 
summary of the explanation it contained.

> Hi, all-
>   Thought I would throw another wrench in the fire
> (probably replete with erroneous 70's memories, too).
> It seems I read once that 10cc used a large multitrack
> recorder to create a playable choir of their own
> voices on the song "I'm Not In Love".  Once the vocal
> tracks were laid down on the same area of tape, the
> section was cut out, and spliced in a loop.  It was
> loaded back on the machine (with appropriate tension),
> and played off a mixing console using the solo buttons
> as a keyboard.  I don't know where I read this, but it
> stuck in my mind for years.  Maybe a similar idea was
> used by those clever Germans.
>

I don't know if anyone can help me, but I have been searching Hi and Lo for an operators manual for an Oberheim OB1? I have googled it and get no luck. Oh buy the way, it sits atop my formicatron.
                                                                 Jimmy Moore

-----Original Message-----
From: caddyfam@...
To: Mellotronists@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sun, 22 Apr 2007 3:09 PM
Subject: [Mellotronists] Re: Solo trons


--- In Mellotronists@yahoogroups.com, jeffc@... wrote:
>> 
> 
> not to pick nits, but kraftwerk's TEE is actually an orchestron, 
and
> not a mellotron. see:
> http://www.optigan.com/tidbits.html#6
> 
> it's an easy one to mistake for a mellotron, and for years that's
> what i thought it was also. another is popol vuh's "Aguirre". it
> sounds like a mellotron choir, but it's some oddity called a
> "choir organ" or something like that [or WAS it?]:
> 

>Re: Thanks for that one Jeff, could that mystery choir be a 
Roland 330 vocorder? 
Back in the radio days when Kraftwerk brought out their 2nd lp, Man 
Machine, we were playing "We Are The Robots" both on air, and in the 
Clubs and got to see them in N.Y. courtest of Capitol, and I 
remember seeing a 400 on stage, or so I thought. But who remembers 
the 70's? Doug


 
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In a message dated 4/23/2007 3:47:42 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  
JMoore6397@... writes:

Oberheim OB1


Nice!
 
Get it on ebay, Jim?



************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.

Sounds good to me! So much so that I popped over to CDBaby to order 
a copy.

More samples:
http://cdbaby.com/cd/leerichards

Bernie

--- In Mellotronists@yahoogroups.com, "L. Richards" <surfbeach@...> 
wrote:
>
> Check out this solo multi-lead tune from Ken Leonard and Lee 
Richards from the Moneypit Feb '06 site.
> Flute and choir from Lee's 400, strings and spanish guitar from 
Jerry Korbs Mark1. Just mellotron and Ken's Korg piano.
> Not quite as famous as kraftwerk and King Crimson, but......
> Enjoy
> Aloha from Lee, and M400 #541
> http://kleonard.com/mellotron/vt0206/recording.htm
> 
>   ----- Original Message ----- 
>   From: jeffc@... 
>   To: Mellotronists@yahoogroups.com 
>   Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2007 10:41 AM
>   Subject: Re: [Mellotronists] Re: Solo trons
> 
> 
>   On Sun, 22 Apr 2007, Doug Berg wrote:
> 
>   > --- In Mellotronists@yahoogroups.com, jeffc@ wrote:
>   > >>
>   > >
>   > > not to pick nits, but kraftwerk's TEE is actually an 
orchestron,
>   > and
>   > > not a mellotron. see:
>   > > http://www.optigan.com/tidbits.html#6
>   > >
>   > > it's an easy one to mistake for a mellotron, and for years 
that's
>   > > what i thought it was also. another is popol 
vuh's "Aguirre". it
>   > > sounds like a mellotron choir, but it's some oddity called a
>   > > "choir organ" or something like that [or WAS it?]:
>   > >
>   >
>   >
>   > >Re: Thanks for that one Jeff, could that mystery choir be a
>   > Roland 330 vocorder?
> 
>   nope.
>   i own one of those [bought it brand new many years ago] and
>   i know the sound quite well, and both of those recordings FAR
>   pre-date the vp-330 vocoder plus. though i DID actually buy it
>   as a mellotron substitute, thinking i would NEVER be able to
>   actually own one.
> 
>   > Back in the radio days when Kraftwerk brought out their 2nd 
lp, Man
>   > Machine, we were playing "We Are The Robots" both on air, and 
in the
>   > Clubs and got to see them in N.Y. courtest of Capitol, and I
>   > remember seeing a 400 on stage, or so I thought. But who 
remembers

>   > the 70's? Doug
> 
>   jeez, i feel like real jerk for pointing this out too,
>   but "man machine" was not their 2nd lp. radioactivity,
>   autobahn, ralf and florian all pre-date man machine.
>   [i think even TEE was the release before that one]
>   [and there were 2 very rare and somewhat oscure releases
>   prior to ALL of them, plus the one called "organisation"
>   which was them before the name kraftwerk was theirs]
> 
>   sorry man :=)
>   call me a jerk - it's okay.
> 
>   i remember the 70s well enough to recall some amazing
>   drugs back then... but that's all in the distant past.
>   [hash oil? anyone remembr that stuff?]
> 
>   i saw them in, i think it was, 1975 at the tower theatre
>   in upper darby pa, then again [year unknown] for the
>   computer world tour at a disco in new jersey. the 1975
>   show is a total blur [thanks to the drugs] so i have
>   no ideawhat theywere using [and i was not as into the
>   gear as i am now, or even was just a few years later]
>   the computer world tour was one in which all the gear
>   was built into a large semi-circular console, so other
>   than the "toys" used for pocket calculator, all of it
>   was totally obscured and hidden. the 1975 show was the
>   tour they did for autobahn - i recall hearing that track
>   played IN ITS ENTIRETY [all 22.5 minutes of it!] on a
>   radio station hear in philadelphia when it was new.
>   it changed my life forever.
>   [not necessarily for the better]
> 
>   ...jeff
>   [who needs to use the rubber conditionaer to annoy
>   the wife with, but i'll wait until she is over
>   her cold for maximum impact - see what a jerk i am?]
> 
>   > Yahoo! Groups Links
>   >
>   >
>   >
>   >
>

In a message dated 23/04/2007 22:41:57 GMT Standard Time,  
chris.dale@... writes:

And of course, theyre using the Gizmotron for the cello  sound and background 
noise as well.
 
The Gizmotron, what a great idea. Shame the production version didn't live  
up to the original prototype. I actually got to play the original once and that 
 worked really well, all handcrafted and metal bits. Sadly the production 
version  was plastic.
 
Norm

I have a brand new, still in the box Bass Gizmotron that I plan to put on a frettless bass some day....now I just have to get a good bass, my current fretless is a piece of crap and I sold my 1969 fretless P-bass during a moment of insanity. I use to play fretless exclusively....sigh...the idiocy of youth

 -----Original Message-----
 From: NormLeete@...
 To: Mellotronists@yahoogroups.com
 Sent: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 5:45 PM
 Subject: Re: [Mellotronists] Re: Solo trons
 
       In a message dated 23/04/2007 22:41:57 GMT Standard Time, chris.dale@... writes: And of course, theyre using the Gizmotron for the cello sound and background noise as well.   The Gizmotron, what a great idea. Shame the production version didn't live up to the original prototype. I actually got to play the original once and that worked really well, all handcrafted and metal bits. Sadly the production version was plastic.   Norm          
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Nice track!I loved reading about the Wrap music coming over Lee's tron 
heads and his way of fixing it!
Pete

Bernie wrote:

> Sounds good to me! So much so that I popped over to CDBaby to order 
> a copy.
>
> More samples:
> http://cdbaby.com/cd/leerichards
>
> Bernie
>
> --- In Mellotronists@yahoogroups.com, "L. Richards" <surfbeach@...> 
> wrote:
>   
>> Check out this solo multi-lead tune from Ken Leonard and Lee 
>>     
> Richards from the Moneypit Feb '06 site.
>   
>> Flute and choir from Lee's 400, strings and spanish guitar from 
>>     
> Jerry Korbs Mark1. Just mellotron and Ken's Korg piano.
>   
>> Not quite as famous as kraftwerk and King Crimson, but......
>> Enjoy
>> Aloha from Lee, and M400 #541
>> http://kleonard.com/mellotron/vt0206/recording.htm
>

----- Original Message -----

Hello!
     This is a bit late in the game, but I only get to
this page every so often lately...
     As far as looped and tracked "10cc" vocals, it's
really quite easy and I've used it at the studio many
times for a pad of breathless vocals.  
    My method is to track about five to ten seconds of
each note you want to a 1/4" or 1/2"  2-track.  You
can maximize by recording seperate notes one at a time
on each track.  Cut and loop it.  Play the loop back
to two tracks of your multitrack and record it through
the whole song.  Repeat the process as many times as
you have track space for and then bounce the whole kit
and kaboodle to two tracks for stereo, running the
faders according to the required performance.  
     The result is striking.  I call it
"create-a-tron" and it can be used for many different
sound sources.  
Good luck!
-Jack Younger  (EMI 103S -the Bastard 'Tron)


--- chris.dale@... wrote:

> I don't know about cutting the tape and using it as
> a loop. 
> 
> I do know that they overdubbed around 100+ voices
> and that they played the faders for the volume
> swells in that song. 
> 
> And of course, theyre using the Gizmotron for the
> cello sound and background noise as well. You can
> hear that same noise on the track Lazy Ways from the
> How Dare You album. It sounds interesting without
> the choir voices.
> 
> 
> Chris
> 
> 
> 
>   Hi, all-
>   Thought I would throw another wrench in the fire
>   (probably replete with erroneous 70's memories,
> too).
>   It seems I read once that 10cc used a large
> multitrack
>   recorder to create a playable choir of their own
>   voices on the song "I'm Not In Love". Once the
> vocal
>   tracks were laid down on the same area of tape,
> the
>   section was cut out, and spliced in a loop. It was
>   loaded back on the machine (with appropriate
> tension),
>   and played off a mixing console using the solo
> buttons
>   as a keyboard. I don't know where I read this, but
> it
>   stuck in my mind for years. Maybe a similar idea
> was
>   used by those clever Germans.
> 
>   Bruce Daily
>   M400 1221
> 
>   P.S. I admit to playing my 'tron "solo" in my
> living
>   room (no mixer yet). So far my friends just smile,
>   scratch their heads, and mumble something about
> "could
>   be done digitally". Oh well, what do they know?
> I'm
>   happy.
> 
>   --- charel196 <charel196@...> wrote:
> 
>   > let's not forget the "Singing Keyboard" from the
>   > 1930s, which was a tron/Chamberlin idea 
>   > using movie film as the medium and light to read
> it
>   > a/la Orchestron. I'd love to hear any 
>   > examples of it....somebody back then had to have
>   > made a recording....
>   > 
>   > 
>   > 
>   > 
>   > 
>   > --- In Mellotronists@yahoogroups.com, "Andy
>   > Thompson" <andy.thompson@...> wrote:
>   > >
>   > > 
>   > > ----- Original Message ----- 
>   > > From: NormLeete@... 
>   > > To: Mellotronists@yahoogroups.com 
>   > > Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2007 11:18 PM
>   > > Subject: Re: [Mellotronists] Re: Solo trons
>   > > 
>   > > 
>   > > In a message dated 22/04/2007 23:02:29 GMT
>   > Standard Time, andy.thompson@... 
>   > writes:
>   > > an early European one-off attempt to use the 
>   > > Chamberlin/Mellotron idea, with infinite
>   > sustain
>   > > I thought it was a modified Mellotron...
>   > > 
>   > > Norm
>   > > 
>   > > 
>   > > Norm
>   > > 
>   > > What little I've been able to find out about
> it
>   > seems to indicate that it was built in the 
>   > '50s! It also sounds unbelievably complex to
> play,
>   > making the 'MkII rhythms' technique 
>   > dound like a doddle. :-) It allegedly resides in
>   > 'a west German museum' now, so if 
>   > ANYONE has any idea which...
>   > > 
>   > > Andy T.
>   > >
>   > 
>   > 
>   > 
> 
>   __________________________________________________
>   Do You Yahoo!?
>   Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
> protection around 
>   http://mail.yahoo.com 
> 
> 
> 
>    


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What were the mechanics and how practical or loopy were the loop tron
or trons that T Dream used back in the day ?

The mixer trick is  the most practical way to implement 10cc voice
choir thing becasue you'll never have enough machines, mike stands and
pencils to do it otherwise.

gw

On 5/2/07, Jack Younger <e4103s@...> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Hello!
>  This is a bit late in the game, but I only get to
>  this page every so often lately...
>  As far as looped and tracked "10cc" vocals, it's
>  really quite easy and I've used it at the studio many
>  times for a pad of breathless vocals.
>  My method is to track about five to ten seconds of
>  each note you want to a 1/4" or 1/2" 2-track. You
>  can maximize by recording seperate notes one at a time
>  on each track. Cut and loop it. Play the loop back
>  to two tracks of your multitrack and record it through
>  the whole song. Repeat the process as many times as
>  you have track space for and then bounce the whole kit
>  and kaboodle to two tracks for stereo, running the
>  faders according to the required performance.
>  The result is striking. I call it
>  "create-a-tron" and it can be used for many different
>  sound sources.
>  Good luck!
>  -Jack Younger (EMI 103S -the Bastard 'Tron)
>
>  --- chris.dale@... wrote:
>
>  > I don't know about cutting the tape and using it as
>  > a loop.
>  >
>  > I do know that they overdubbed around 100+ voices
>  > and that they played the faders for the volume
>  > swells in that song.
>  >
>  > And of course, theyre using the Gizmotron for the
>  > cello sound and background noise as well. You can
>  > hear that same noise on the track Lazy Ways from the
>  > How Dare You album. It sounds interesting without
>  > the choir voices.
>  >
>  >
>  > Chris
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  > Hi, all-
>  > Thought I would throw another wrench in the fire
>  > (probably replete with erroneous 70's memories,
>  > too).
>  > It seems I read once that 10cc used a large
>  > multitrack
>  > recorder to create a playable choir of their own
>  > voices on the song "I'm Not In Love". Once the
>  > vocal
>  > tracks were laid down on the same area of tape,
>  > the
>  > section was cut out, and spliced in a loop. It was
>  > loaded back on the machine (with appropriate
>  > tension),
>  > and played off a mixing console using the solo
>  > buttons
>  > as a keyboard. I don't know where I read this, but
>  > it
>  > stuck in my mind for years. Maybe a similar idea
>  > was
>  > used by those clever Germans.
>  >
>  > Bruce Daily
>  > M400 1221
>  >
>  > P.S. I admit to playing my 'tron "solo" in my
>  > living
>  > room (no mixer yet). So far my friends just smile,
>  > scratch their heads, and mumble something about
>  > "could
>  > be done digitally". Oh well, what do they know?
>  > I'm
>  > happy.
>  >
>  > --- charel196 <charel196@...> wrote:
>  >
>  > > let's not forget the "Singing Keyboard" from the
>  > > 1930s, which was a tron/Chamberlin idea
>  > > using movie film as the medium and light to read
>  > it
>  > > a/la Orchestron. I'd love to hear any
>  > > examples of it....somebody back then had to have
>  > > made a recording....
>  > >
>  > >
>  > >
>  > >
>  > >
>  > > --- In Mellotronists@yahoogroups.com, "Andy
>  > > Thompson" <andy.thompson@...> wrote:
>  > > >
>  > > >
>  > > > ----- Original Message -----
>  > > > From: NormLeete@...
>  > > > To: Mellotronists@yahoogroups.com
>  > > > Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2007 11:18 PM
>  > > > Subject: Re: [Mellotronists] Re: Solo trons
>  > > >
>  > > >
>  > > > In a message dated 22/04/2007 23:02:29 GMT
>  > > Standard Time, andy.thompson@...
>  > > writes:
>  > > > an early European one-off attempt to use the
>  > > > Chamberlin/Mellotron idea, with infinite
>  > > sustain
>  > > > I thought it was a modified Mellotron...
>  > > >
>  > > > Norm
>  > > >
>  > > >
>  > > > Norm
>  > > >
>  > > > What little I've been able to find out about
>  > it
>  > > seems to indicate that it was built in the
>  > > '50s! It also sounds unbelievably complex to
>  > play,
>  > > making the 'MkII rhythms' technique
>  > > dound like a doddle. :-) It allegedly resides in
>  > > 'a west German museum' now, so if
>  > > ANYONE has any idea which...
>  > > >
>  > > > Andy T.
>  > > >
>  > >
>  > >
>  > >
>  >
>  > __________________________________________________
>  > Do You Yahoo!?
>  > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
>  > protection around
>  > http://mail.yahoo.com
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  >
>
>  __________________________________________________
>  Do You Yahoo!?
>  Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
>  http://mail.yahoo.com
>

Yup.  Just keep trackin' an' a-bouncin'!  Unless you
have 19 machines, of course.  Or protools, but where's
the fun in that.

Oh, and in reference to the Gizmotron, I've built a
couple of contraptions that give you a motor with a
felt wheel/s powered by a 9V battery and can secure to
the strap button for bowed effects.  Somewhat limited,
but good for certain things.  Definitely Rube Goldberg
type stuff...
-Jack

--- gino wong <wonggster@...> wrote:

> What were the mechanics and how practical or loopy
> were the loop tron
> or trons that T Dream used back in the day ?
> 
> The mixer trick is  the most practical way to
> implement 10cc voice
> choir thing becasue you'll never have enough
> machines, mike stands and
> pencils to do it otherwise.
> 
> gw
> 
> On 5/2/07, Jack Younger <e4103s@...> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Hello!
> >  This is a bit late in the game, but I only get to
> >  this page every so often lately...
> >  As far as looped and tracked "10cc" vocals, it's
> >  really quite easy and I've used it at the studio
> many
> >  times for a pad of breathless vocals.
> >  My method is to track about five to ten seconds
> of
> >  each note you want to a 1/4" or 1/2" 2-track. You
> >  can maximize by recording seperate notes one at a
> time
> >  on each track. Cut and loop it. Play the loop
> back
> >  to two tracks of your multitrack and record it
> through
> >  the whole song. Repeat the process as many times
> as
> >  you have track space for and then bounce the
> whole kit
> >  and kaboodle to two tracks for stereo, running
> the
> >  faders according to the required performance.
> >  The result is striking. I call it
> >  "create-a-tron" and it can be used for many
> different
> >  sound sources.
> >  Good luck!
> >  -Jack Younger (EMI 103S -the Bastard 'Tron)
> >
> >  --- chris.dale@... wrote:
> >
> >  > I don't know about cutting the tape and using
> it as
> >  > a loop.
> >  >
> >  > I do know that they overdubbed around 100+
> voices
> >  > and that they played the faders for the volume
> >  > swells in that song.
> >  >
> >  > And of course, theyre using the Gizmotron for
> the
> >  > cello sound and background noise as well. You
> can
> >  > hear that same noise on the track Lazy Ways
> from the
> >  > How Dare You album. It sounds interesting
> without
> >  > the choir voices.
> >  >
> >  >
> >  > Chris
> >  >
> >  >
> >  >
> >  > Hi, all-
> >  > Thought I would throw another wrench in the
> fire
> >  > (probably replete with erroneous 70's memories,
> >  > too).
> >  > It seems I read once that 10cc used a large
> >  > multitrack
> >  > recorder to create a playable choir of their
> own
> >  > voices on the song "I'm Not In Love". Once the
> >  > vocal
> >  > tracks were laid down on the same area of tape,
> >  > the
> >  > section was cut out, and spliced in a loop. It
> was
> >  > loaded back on the machine (with appropriate
> >  > tension),
> >  > and played off a mixing console using the solo
> >  > buttons
> >  > as a keyboard. I don't know where I read this,
> but
> >  > it
> >  > stuck in my mind for years. Maybe a similar
> idea
> >  > was
> >  > used by those clever Germans.
> >  >
> >  > Bruce Daily
> >  > M400 1221
> >  >
> >  > P.S. I admit to playing my 'tron "solo" in my
> >  > living
> >  > room (no mixer yet). So far my friends just
> smile,
> >  > scratch their heads, and mumble something about
> >  > "could
> >  > be done digitally". Oh well, what do they know?
> >  > I'm
> >  > happy.
> >  >
> >  > --- charel196 <charel196@...> wrote:
> >  >
> >  > > let's not forget the "Singing Keyboard" from
> the
> >  > > 1930s, which was a tron/Chamberlin idea
> >  > > using movie film as the medium and light to
> read
> >  > it
> >  > > a/la Orchestron. I'd love to hear any
> >  > > examples of it....somebody back then had to
> have
> >  > > made a recording....
> >  > >
> >  > >
> >  > >
> >  > >
> >  > >
> >  > > --- In Mellotronists@yahoogroups.com, "Andy
> >  > > Thompson" <andy.thompson@...> wrote:
> >  > > >
> >  > > >
> >  > > > ----- Original Message -----
> >  > > > From: NormLeete@...
> >  > > > To: Mellotronists@yahoogroups.com
> >  > > > Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2007 11:18 PM
> >  > > > Subject: Re: [Mellotronists] Re: Solo trons
> >  > > >
> >  > > >
> >  > > > In a message dated 22/04/2007 23:02:29 GMT
> >  > > Standard Time, andy.thompson@...
> >  > > writes:
> >  > > > an early European one-off attempt to use
> the
> >  > > > Chamberlin/Mellotron idea, with infinite
> >  > > sustain
> >  > > > I thought it was a modified Mellotron...
> >  > > >
> >  > > > Norm
> >  > > >
> >  > > >
> >  > > > Norm
> >  > > >
> >  > > > What little I've been able to find out
> about
> >  > it
> >  > > seems to indicate that it was built in the
> >  > > '50s! It also sounds unbelievably complex to
> >  > play,
> >  > > making the 'MkII rhythms' technique
> >  > > dound like a doddle. :-) It allegedly resides
> in
> >  > > 'a west German museum' now, so if
> >  > > ANYONE has any idea which...
> >  > > >
> >  > > > Andy T.
> >  > > >
> >  > >
> >  > >
> >  > >
> >  >
> >  >
> __________________________________________________
> >  > Do You Yahoo!?
> >  > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
> >  > protection around
> >  > http://mail.yahoo.com
> >  >
> >  >
> >  >
> >  >
> >
> > 
> __________________________________________________
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