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The Ultimate Etch-Resist Pen for Manual or Plotter Use

The Ultimate Etch-Resist Pen for Manual or Plotter Use

2004-12-07 by Jackie Fetter

I just joined this group today and noticed that no one has mentioned
the Sharpie Industrial pens in the message archive. 

IT HAS TO BE THE *INDUSTRIAL* VERSION. THIS CONTAINS THE MAGIC INK.
(See link at end of message.)

A couple of years ago I accidentally discovered the Sharpie Industrial
pens are a supreme etch-resist pen, unlike any other, and I have tried
a lot.


Pen Performance as stated by Sanford:

Resists acids, processing chemicals, and cleansers

Ink stays permanent under most chemical washes, extreme heat and steam
up to 500°F.

Waterproof, resistant to many solvents, smear proof.

Specially formulated for industrial, laboratory and commercial use.

Permanent on metal, foil, glass, photographic film, plastic and most
hard-to-mark surfaces.


Yeah Baby! This is one special ink.

A single stroke is all that is required to create the finest track.
Ferric chloride will not touch this ink nor pit the masked area like
other pens allow.

I created a pen holder from one of the pen caps for my HP7475A plotter
and can create circuit boards for most of my projects.

A few important hints:

Use a CAD package that outputs HPGL. Eagle and Pulsonix will do this
as well as some others.

Set the pen speed as low as it will go and plot to file. If the Cad
package doesn't allow you to set pen speed, set the default pen speed
manually by adding the pen speed command after the initialization
string at the beginning of the file. There are special shareware
Notepad replacement programs that will edit in ASCII that can be used
if the file is larger than 64K.

When converting the HP pen claw to hold the new pen, use many loops of
an ordinary rubber band to secure the pen into the claw. The pen will
still slip upward in the holder so glue a piece of 220 grit sandpaper
with solvent-based contact cement or good quality (the thicker stuff)
double-sided carpet tape to the inner surface of the pen claw. I tried
to use epoxy putty to form a perfect
holder but the increased mass delayed the pen rise enough to produce
"icicles" at the pickup points. Just use the rubber band and a
sandpaper friction pad, it works.

Do a test plot of the board outline onto a sheet of paper, first. Then
tape the prepared PCB board to the paper on top of the first plot. I
used clear box packing tape.

The "paper" loading can be hairy. The plotter will load and
fling the
paper back and forth a few times at full traverse speed. Just nurse it
through. If I can do it, you can do it. The pen should not be loaded.

Pen height will need to be adjusted. I forgot to mention above under
building the pen holder to use the pen cap as the holder. Rip off the
pocket clip and cut off the shut end of the cap with a razor knife
until enough has been removed. Secure the pen cap into the plotter
claw as noted above. Insert the pen until it clicks into the cap and
set the pen height as needed by test-running. Now when you're done
plotting, remove the pen and recap it with another cap. Your pen
height adjustment will remain set with the cap/holder.


http://www.sharpie.com/sanford/consumer/sharpie/pr
oductcatalog/tipfamilydetail.jhtml?attributeId=SNA
TT40202¤tType=SNTYPE004

Re: The Ultimate Etch-Resist Pen for Manual or Plotter Use

2004-12-07 by Phil

a couple of questions:
- what is the width of the line produced by the fine point tip? 
ultrafine?
- what are the wear characteristics?  I assume the tip widens as it
wears.  The tips of sharpies I have used have also tended to become
flexible over time.
- how is the ink different from the "office" grade sharpies?

phil

Re: The Ultimate Etch-Resist Pen for Manual or Plotter Use

2004-12-07 by Jackie Fetter

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Phil" <phil1960us@y...> wrote:
> 
> a couple of questions:
> - what is the width of the line produced by the fine point tip? 
> ultrafine?

I get lines of 0.025" max. Thinner lines are possible with less
pressure but 25 mill works fine for me.



> - what are the wear characteristics?  I assume the tip widens as it
> wears.  The tips of sharpies I have used have also tended to become
> flexible over time.

After a few dozen boards I notice little wear. Not cleaning the board
with steel wool before plotting would probably help by reducing
friction. Any widening that occurs seems to be from the Pen Down
impact. There is a lot of this when plotting text. The short answer
is: I haven't had a problem; change the pen when it starts to wear.
They're only a couple of dollars, US.



> - how is the ink different from the "office" grade sharpies?

I went on at length in my original post about the ink characteristics.
It is totally resistant against ferric chloride and does not allow
pitting like all the other pens I've tried.

The ink was originally developed for marking laboratory glassware. It
was designed to remain on glassware through steam sterilization to 500
F, resist acids, bases and many solvents. 

It does resist several solvents I've tried to use to strip the ink
after etching. IPA, acetone, and ethyl acetate. Something more
aggressive like MEK, Naphtha, or a solvent cocktail like "Goof Off"
might work better but I stay away from the really nasty ones for
health reasons. I just use super fine steel wool to take the ink off.



This is the perfect etch-resist pen. A quantum step above even the
etch-resist pens sold by the DIY PCB companies.

Might be interesting if the absorbent fiber ink tube in the pen could
have the ink squeezed out of it and use the ink in a standard plotter
pen or even better, inserted into a modified inkjet cartridge. I've
noticed that when marking on glass the ink does not puddle up but
stays put in a thin film.

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: The Ultimate Etch-Resist Pen for Manual or Plotter Use

2004-12-07 by Stefan Trethan

On Tue, 07 Dec 2004 18:22:28 -0000, Jackie Fetter <lpt2@...> wrote:

>
> Might be interesting if the absorbent fiber ink tube in the pen could
> have the ink squeezed out of it and use the ink in a standard plotter
> pen or even better, inserted into a modified inkjet cartridge. I've
> noticed that when marking on glass the ink does not puddle up but
> stays put in a thin film.

Check if there are refill bottles available.

ST

Re: The Ultimate Etch-Resist Pen for Manual or Plotter Use

2004-12-07 by Phil

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Jackie Fetter" <lpt2@h...> wrote:
> 
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Phil" <phil1960us@y...> wrote:
> > 
> > a couple of questions:
> > - what is the width of the line produced by the fine point tip? 
> > ultrafine?
> 
> I get lines of 0.025" max. Thinner lines are possible with less
> pressure but 25 mill works fine for me.
> 

Oh well, that's way too coarse for me.  too bad, I found a used
plotter for $10.

...

> 
> > - how is the ink different from the "office" grade sharpies?
> 
> I went on at length in my original post about the ink characteristics.
> It is totally resistant against ferric chloride and does not allow
> pitting like all the other pens I've tried.
> 

you may have gone on about the characteristics but that doesn't/didn't
answer my question.  How is it different from regular sharpies (the
one ones sold in office stores)?

Re: The Ultimate Etch-Resist Pen for Manual or Plotter Use

2004-12-08 by Jackie Fetter

THIS pen! As mentioned in the FIRST post.

http://www.sharpie.com/sanford/consumer/sharpie/productcatalog/tipfamilydetail.jhtml?attributeId=SNATT40202¤tType=SNTYPE004


--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, JanRwl@A... wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>  
> In a message dated 12/7/2004 12:28:05 PM Central Standard Time,  
> lpt2@h... writes:
> 
> what is  the width of the line produced by the fine point tip?  
> 
> 
> 
> Fine point tip on WHAT pen???
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: The Ultimate Etch-Resist Pen for Manual or Plotter Use

2004-12-08 by milwiron@terrorbydesign.com

I've tried the Industrial Sharpies, including laying down multiple layers of ink, they wash off using ammonium persulphate at 100 to 120 degrees F.  :(
Denny
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On 12/08/2004 7:23:55 AM, homebrew_pcbs@yahoogroups.com wrote:
> THIS pen! As mentioned in the FIRST post.
> http://www.sharpie.
> com/sanford/consumer/sharpie/productcatalog/tipfamilydetail.
> jhtml?attributeId=SNATT40202&cu

Re: The Ultimate Etch-Resist Pen for Manual or Plotter Use

2004-12-08 by fcolynu_soonet_ca

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Jackie Fetter" <lpt2@h...> 
wrote:
> 
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Phil" <phil1960us@y...> 
wrote:
> > 
> > a couple of questions:
> > - what is the width of the line produced by the fine point tip? 
> > ultrafine?
> 
> I get lines of 0.025" max. Thinner lines are possible with less
> pressure but 25 mill works fine for me.
> 
> 
> 
> > - what are the wear characteristics?  I assume the tip widens as 
it
> > wears.  The tips of sharpies I have used have also tended to 
become
> > flexible over time.
> 
> After a few dozen boards I notice little wear. Not cleaning the 
board
> with steel wool before plotting would probably help by reducing
> friction. Any widening that occurs seems to be from the Pen Down
> impact. There is a lot of this when plotting text. The short answer
> is: I haven't had a problem; change the pen when it starts to wear.
> They're only a couple of dollars, US.
> 

Instead of cleaning your board of with steel wool leave it tarnished 
and then try plotting on it with the pen. Before etching it dip the 
circuit board in warm to hot V-8 Juice. When I was a teenager I was 
getting ready to make a wire wrap board up and had the Radio Shack 
predrilled board and a glass of warm, just out of the can V-8 juice 
sitting in the table beside it. My younger brother was horsing around 
at the table and tipped over the glass spilling the V-8 juice on the 
board. In a very short time that the juice was on the board it 
cleaned it as well as if it was cleaned with steel wool. If you 
remember the ads for V-8 juice in the '80s they use to have a person 
hitting them self on the head and saying "I could have had a V-8". I 
stopped drinking it after seeing that. > 
> 
> > - how is the ink different from the "office" grade sharpies?
> 
> I went on at length in my original post about the ink 
characteristics.
> It is totally resistant against ferric chloride and does not allow
> pitting like all the other pens I've tried.
> 
> The ink was originally developed for marking laboratory glassware. 
It
> was designed to remain on glassware through steam sterilization to 
500
> F, resist acids, bases and many solvents. 
> 
> It does resist several solvents I've tried to use to strip the ink
> after etching. IPA, acetone, and ethyl acetate. Something more
> aggressive like MEK, Naphtha, or a solvent cocktail like "Goof Off"
> might work better but I stay away from the really nasty ones for
> health reasons. I just use super fine steel wool to take the ink 
off.
> 
> 
> 
> This is the perfect etch-resist pen. A quantum step above even the
> etch-resist pens sold by the DIY PCB companies.
> 
> Might be interesting if the absorbent fiber ink tube in the pen 
could
> have the ink squeezed out of it and use the ink in a standard 
plotter
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> pen or even better, inserted into a modified inkjet cartridge. I've
> noticed that when marking on glass the ink does not puddle up but
> stays put in a thin film.

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