Homebrew_PCBs

Hi Listies,

Some activity on the CCED list about LPKF and holding PCB's down to mill
them. Anyone here have the LPKF system?

http://www.lpkfusa.com/products/product/rapidpcbpro/index.htm

I'd like to get a closer view of the Z height "tracking donut" on this
machine. And, I'm in the process of downloading a demo of their
program.

Alan KM6VV
P.S. I'm also looking at a low-cost Gerber to Gcode translation program
that should be available soon! More details when past beta.

Hi Alan,
I see that! I use the heads of 2-56 bolts to hold
my boards down. The ones I buy are cuped foil side up. They
are 4" X 6". The bolts go into a piece of 1/4" PVC. I find
holding the board by the edge-the best method so far. Since
all my boards are 4" X 6" I only have to take two bolts out
and the board slides out the end. The bolts pull the board
down flat. When I do smaller boards, I have other rows of
taped holes in the PVC. The Tit4Tat board was 1/2 of the
4" X 6" board. I would make two at once. I used to make 4
1 axis boards out of one 4" X 6". Tape is fine for doing
a flat pcb, but most surplus boards come warped.
How would I fix a warped board when making a double
sided board? Simple, use one or two bolts in the middle of the blank.
They then become mounting holes.


John

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@y..., Alan Marconett KM6VV <KM6VV@a...> wrote:
> Hi Listies,
>
> Some activity on the CCED list about LPKF and holding PCB's down to
mill
> them. Anyone here have the LPKF system?
>
> http://www.lpkfusa.com/products/product/rapidpcbpro/index.htm
>
> I'd like to get a closer view of the Z height "tracking donut" on
this
> machine. And, I'm in the process of downloading a demo of their
> program.
>
> Alan KM6VV
> P.S. I'm also looking at a low-cost Gerber to Gcode translation
program
> that should be available soon! More details when past beta.

Hi John,

Good tips! When you bolt your boards down, how much deviation is left?
I just looked at LPKF (again, for the 1000th time), and they are VERY
precise! TWO traces between pads. And I'm thinking that if the depth
is controlled more closely, bit life will be improved.

Alan KM6VV


crankorgan wrote:

>
> Hi Alan,
> I see that! I use the heads of 2-56 bolts to hold
> my boards down. The ones I buy are cuped foil side up. They
> are 4" X 6". The bolts go into a piece of 1/4" PVC. I find
> holding the board by the edge-the best method so far. Since
> all my boards are 4" X 6" I only have to take two bolts out
> and the board slides out the end. The bolts pull the board
> down flat. When I do smaller boards, I have other rows of
> taped holes in the PVC. The Tit4Tat board was 1/2 of the
> 4" X 6" board. I would make two at once. I used to make 4
> 1 axis boards out of one 4" X 6". Tape is fine for doing
> a flat pcb, but most surplus boards come warped.
> How would I fix a warped board when making a double
> sided board? Simple, use one or two bolts in the middle of the blank.
> They then become mounting holes.
>
> John
>
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@y..., Alan Marconett KM6VV <KM6VV@a...> wrote:
> > Hi Listies,
> >
> > Some activity on the CCED list about LPKF and holding PCB's down to
> mill
> > them. Anyone here have the LPKF system?
> >
> > http://www.lpkfusa.com/products/product/rapidpcbpro/index.htm
> >
> > I'd like to get a closer view of the Z height "tracking donut" on
> this
> > machine. And, I'm in the process of downloading a demo of their
> > program.
> >
> > Alan KM6VV
> > P.S. I'm also looking at a low-cost Gerber to Gcode translation
> program
> > that should be available soon! More details when past beta.
>

Hi Alan,
I mount a 8" X 8" piece of 1/4" PVC to my bed
using four flat head 10-32 bolts. I run the machine with
an old Mechanical Etching bit in it. I cut a fine "L" in
the plastic. In the "L" I drill and tap 2-56 bolt holes.
I then place a PCB under the bolt heads. This helps me
locate where the other screws go.
The board is held down on all sides with just the
bolt heads. If you use a 60 degree Mechanical Etching bit
variations in copper and board will not be a problem. This
is if the board is cuped up! The single sided ones I buy
are.
My machine will do a trace between a pad. Two traces
between a pad!!! No way! I have seen the sample boards on
those site. Show me the boards made by regular people using
their machine. No burrs either, just perfect traces.
The boards I use have very thick copper. If I get
the money, I will try some PCB made for Mechanical Etching.

John

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@y..., Alan Marconett KM6VV <KM6VV@a...> wrote:
> Hi John,
>
> Good tips! When you bolt your boards down, how much deviation is
left?
> I just looked at LPKF (again, for the 1000th time), and they are
VERY
> precise! TWO traces between pads. And I'm thinking that if the
depth
> is controlled more closely, bit life will be improved.
>
> Alan KM6VV
>
>
> crankorgan wrote:
> >
> > Hi Alan,
> > I see that! I use the heads of 2-56 bolts to hold
> > my boards down. The ones I buy are cuped foil side up. They
> > are 4" X 6". The bolts go into a piece of 1/4" PVC. I find
> > holding the board by the edge-the best method so far. Since
> > all my boards are 4" X 6" I only have to take two bolts out
> > and the board slides out the end. The bolts pull the board
> > down flat. When I do smaller boards, I have other rows of
> > taped holes in the PVC. The Tit4Tat board was 1/2 of the
> > 4" X 6" board. I would make two at once. I used to make 4
> > 1 axis boards out of one 4" X 6". Tape is fine for doing
> > a flat pcb, but most surplus boards come warped.
> > How would I fix a warped board when making a double
> > sided board? Simple, use one or two bolts in the middle of the
blank.
> > They then become mounting holes.
> >
> > John
> >
> > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@y..., Alan Marconett KM6VV <KM6VV@a...>
wrote:
> > > Hi Listies,
> > >
> > > Some activity on the CCED list about LPKF and holding PCB's
down to
> > mill
> > > them. Anyone here have the LPKF system?
> > >
> > >
http://www.lpkfusa.com/products/product/rapidpcbpro/index.htm
> > >
> > > I'd like to get a closer view of the Z height "tracking donut"
on
> > this
> > > machine. And, I'm in the process of downloading a demo of their
> > > program.
> > >
> > > Alan KM6VV
> > > P.S. I'm also looking at a low-cost Gerber to Gcode translation
> > program
> > > that should be available soon! More details when past beta.
> >

Hi John,

Where do you get the PVC, other then a "plastics" store? Anything I
missed? I think there is a TAP plastics in San Jose, CA.

The 'L' picks up two edges of the PCB? Do you flycut the PVC flat
first? should true it up.

I have a 60 degree engraving bit that was recommended to me.

Yeah, getting two traces between pads is a little hard to achieve! I'll
settle for a single trace. I've seen their sample boards, really nice.

Are you saying that they use thinner copper or a special board for
mechanical etching? I hadn't heard that.

Alan KM6VV

crankorgan wrote:

>
> Hi Alan,
> I mount a 8" X 8" piece of 1/4" PVC to my bed
> using four flat head 10-32 bolts. I run the machine with
> an old Mechanical Etching bit in it. I cut a fine "L" in
> the plastic. In the "L" I drill and tap 2-56 bolt holes.
> I then place a PCB under the bolt heads. This helps me
> locate where the other screws go.
> The board is held down on all sides with just the
> bolt heads. If you use a 60 degree Mechanical Etching bit
> variations in copper and board will not be a problem. This
> is if the board is cuped up! The single sided ones I buy
> are.
> My machine will do a trace between a pad. Two traces
> between a pad!!! No way! I have seen the sample boards on
> those site. Show me the boards made by regular people using
> their machine. No burrs either, just perfect traces.
> The boards I use have very thick copper. If I get
> the money, I will try some PCB made for Mechanical Etching.
>
> John
>
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@y..., Alan Marconett KM6VV <KM6VV@a...> wrote:
> > Hi John,
> >
> > Good tips! When you bolt your boards down, how much deviation is
> left?
> > I just looked at LPKF (again, for the 1000th time), and they are
> VERY
> > precise! TWO traces between pads. And I'm thinking that if the
> depth
> > is controlled more closely, bit life will be improved.
> >
> > Alan KM6VV
> >
> >
> > crankorgan wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi Alan,
> > > I see that! I use the heads of 2-56 bolts to hold
> > > my boards down. The ones I buy are cuped foil side up. They
> > > are 4" X 6". The bolts go into a piece of 1/4" PVC. I find
> > > holding the board by the edge-the best method so far. Since
> > > all my boards are 4" X 6" I only have to take two bolts out
> > > and the board slides out the end. The bolts pull the board
> > > down flat. When I do smaller boards, I have other rows of
> > > taped holes in the PVC. The Tit4Tat board was 1/2 of the
> > > 4" X 6" board. I would make two at once. I used to make 4
> > > 1 axis boards out of one 4" X 6". Tape is fine for doing
> > > a flat pcb, but most surplus boards come warped.
> > > How would I fix a warped board when making a double
> > > sided board? Simple, use one or two bolts in the middle of the
> blank.
> > > They then become mounting holes.
> > >
> > > John
> > >
> > > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@y..., Alan Marconett KM6VV <KM6VV@a...>
> wrote:
> > > > Hi Listies,
> > > >
> > > > Some activity on the CCED list about LPKF and holding PCB's
> down to
> > > mill
> > > > them. Anyone here have the LPKF system?
> > > >
> > > >
> http://www.lpkfusa.com/products/product/rapidpcbpro/index.htm
> > > >
> > > > I'd like to get a closer view of the Z height "tracking donut"
> on
> > > this
> > > > machine. And, I'm in the process of downloading a demo of their
> > > > program.
> > > >
> > > > Alan KM6VV
> > > > P.S. I'm also looking at a low-cost Gerber to Gcode translation
> > > program
> > > > that should be available soon! More details when past beta.
> > >
>
>
> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Bookmarks and files:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Homebrew_PCBs-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Hi Alan,
I only buy scrap PVC 1/4" thick grey. There is a guy on
Ebay who sells several 18" X 18" pieces for around $10 plus
shipping. I have picked up some for even less. You can drill it,
tap it, sand it, and glue it. Hobby stores sell it in thinner
sizes. Robotic people use it. I just mount the PVC to my Bed
which is also PVC. I used to mill my fixtures flat. Now my
designs are more accurate.
Some PCB have foil that is thinner and some have foil
that is softer. The surplus I buy is tough as nails. Not one
trace has ever lifted or torn.
The 60 degree bit will allow you to have an uneven Bed
or board. Some areas will be milled wider, but they will still
be milled! Since my boards come from the same place they are
the same thickness and size. This allows me to come off the
home positions to mill the board.
I consider milling circuit boards a great way to check
a design before you send the boards out to be made. I use the
method to make the boards I sell. I am able to sell a board for
the same price the customer could make it for. I also make a small
profit. The biggest cost is the bit! $7 each and in my case that
is only one board.
I see you asked about wear on the other group. I use a
LFKF-T-Tech type bit. Micro-grain carbide. You get about 600 good
inches and an other 200 inches of so so milling. I have my bit
make starter holes at the end of the run in each pad. That takes the
bit its last mile. The expensive machines spin the bit much faster.
This helps the bit last longer. Several people who use the real
machine told me I am doing ok! Not bad for a $125 machine.

John

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@y..., Alan Marconett KM6VV <KM6VV@a...> wrote:
> Hi John,
>
> Where do you get the PVC, other then a "plastics" store? Anything I
> missed? I think there is a TAP plastics in San Jose, CA.
>
> The 'L' picks up two edges of the PCB? Do you flycut the PVC flat
> first? should true it up.
>
> I have a 60 degree engraving bit that was recommended to me.
>
> Yeah, getting two traces between pads is a little hard to achieve!
I'll
> settle for a single trace. I've seen their sample boards, really
nice.
>
> Are you saying that they use thinner copper or a special board for
> mechanical etching? I hadn't heard that.
>
> Alan KM6VV
>
> crankorgan wrote:
> >
> > Hi Alan,
> > I mount a 8" X 8" piece of 1/4" PVC to my bed
> > using four flat head 10-32 bolts. I run the machine with
> > an old Mechanical Etching bit in it. I cut a fine "L" in
> > the plastic. In the "L" I drill and tap 2-56 bolt holes.
> > I then place a PCB under the bolt heads. This helps me
> > locate where the other screws go.
> > The board is held down on all sides with just the
> > bolt heads. If you use a 60 degree Mechanical Etching bit
> > variations in copper and board will not be a problem. This
> > is if the board is cuped up! The single sided ones I buy
> > are.
> > My machine will do a trace between a pad. Two traces
> > between a pad!!! No way! I have seen the sample boards on
> > those site. Show me the boards made by regular people using
> > their machine. No burrs either, just perfect traces.
> > The boards I use have very thick copper. If I get
> > the money, I will try some PCB made for Mechanical Etching.
> >
> > John
> >
> > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@y..., Alan Marconett KM6VV <KM6VV@a...>
wrote:
> > > Hi John,
> > >
> > > Good tips! When you bolt your boards down, how much deviation
is
> > left?
> > > I just looked at LPKF (again, for the 1000th time), and they are
> > VERY
> > > precise! TWO traces between pads. And I'm thinking that if the
> > depth
> > > is controlled more closely, bit life will be improved.
> > >
> > > Alan KM6VV
> > >
> > >
> > > crankorgan wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hi Alan,
> > > > I see that! I use the heads of 2-56 bolts to hold
> > > > my boards down. The ones I buy are cuped foil side up. They
> > > > are 4" X 6". The bolts go into a piece of 1/4" PVC. I find
> > > > holding the board by the edge-the best method so far. Since
> > > > all my boards are 4" X 6" I only have to take two bolts out
> > > > and the board slides out the end. The bolts pull the board
> > > > down flat. When I do smaller boards, I have other rows of
> > > > taped holes in the PVC. The Tit4Tat board was 1/2 of the
> > > > 4" X 6" board. I would make two at once. I used to make 4
> > > > 1 axis boards out of one 4" X 6". Tape is fine for doing
> > > > a flat pcb, but most surplus boards come warped.
> > > > How would I fix a warped board when making a double
> > > > sided board? Simple, use one or two bolts in the middle of the
> > blank.
> > > > They then become mounting holes.
> > > >
> > > > John
> > > >
> > > > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@y..., Alan Marconett KM6VV <KM6VV@a...>
> > wrote:
> > > > > Hi Listies,
> > > > >
> > > > > Some activity on the CCED list about LPKF and holding PCB's
> > down to
> > > > mill
> > > > > them. Anyone here have the LPKF system?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > http://www.lpkfusa.com/products/product/rapidpcbpro/index.htm
> > > > >
> > > > > I'd like to get a closer view of the Z height "tracking
donut"
> > on
> > > > this
> > > > > machine. And, I'm in the process of downloading a demo of
their
> > > > > program.
> > > > >
> > > > > Alan KM6VV
> > > > > P.S. I'm also looking at a low-cost Gerber to Gcode
translation
> > > > program
> > > > > that should be available soon! More details when past beta.
> > > >
> >
> >
> > Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Bookmarks and
files:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > Homebrew_PCBs-unsubscribe@y...
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Hi John,

Thanks for the comments. I hadn't looked for PVC on ebay. Should be a
lot cheaper to ship then BRASS! I have some Plexiglas, but I doubt if
that is suitable. I've heard of some dense foam (PDF or something??)
that is used on routers, but I have no source for it.

I'm aware that PCB stock is available in 1 and 2 oz foil weights, but I
hadn't heard of the copper being any more or less soft. Copper WILL
work harden, but that shouldn't apply here.

Yes, milling a board first is a FAST way to get a prototype, and if a
Gerber file is generated, then the files can be sent off for commercial
boards.

I'm a little dismayed at the short life of the bits. Especially if they
don't make it through a complete board! What speed spindle do you
have? I have a Dremel tool that will have to do for a while.

Yes, you are certainly doing OK for a $125 machine! After that, it's
the "law of diminishing returns", I'm afraid.

Alan KM6VV

crankorgan wrote:

>
> Hi Alan,
> I only buy scrap PVC 1/4" thick grey. There is a guy on
> Ebay who sells several 18" X 18" pieces for around $10 plus
> shipping. I have picked up some for even less. You can drill it,
> tap it, sand it, and glue it. Hobby stores sell it in thinner
> sizes. Robotic people use it. I just mount the PVC to my Bed
> which is also PVC. I used to mill my fixtures flat. Now my
> designs are more accurate.
> Some PCB have foil that is thinner and some have foil
> that is softer. The surplus I buy is tough as nails. Not one
> trace has ever lifted or torn.
> The 60 degree bit will allow you to have an uneven Bed
> or board. Some areas will be milled wider, but they will still
> be milled! Since my boards come from the same place they are
> the same thickness and size. This allows me to come off the
> home positions to mill the board.
> I consider milling circuit boards a great way to check
> a design before you send the boards out to be made. I use the
> method to make the boards I sell. I am able to sell a board for
> the same price the customer could make it for. I also make a small
> profit. The biggest cost is the bit! $7 each and in my case that
> is only one board.
> I see you asked about wear on the other group. I use a
> LFKF-T-Tech type bit. Micro-grain carbide. You get about 600 good
> inches and an other 200 inches of so so milling. I have my bit
> make starter holes at the end of the run in each pad. That takes the
> bit its last mile. The expensive machines spin the bit much faster.
> This helps the bit last longer. Several people who use the real
> machine told me I am doing ok! Not bad for a $125 machine.
>
> John
>
>
>
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@y..., Alan Marconett KM6VV <KM6VV@a...> wrote:
> > Hi John,
> >
> > Where do you get the PVC, other then a "plastics" store? Anything I
> > missed? I think there is a TAP plastics in San Jose, CA.
> >
> > The 'L' picks up two edges of the PCB? Do you flycut the PVC flat
> > first? should true it up.
> >
> > I have a 60 degree engraving bit that was recommended to me.
> >
> > Yeah, getting two traces between pads is a little hard to achieve!
> I'll
> > settle for a single trace. I've seen their sample boards, really
> nice.
> >
> > Are you saying that they use thinner copper or a special board for
> > mechanical etching? I hadn't heard that.
> >
> > Alan KM6VV
> >
> > crankorgan wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi Alan,
> > > I mount a 8" X 8" piece of 1/4" PVC to my bed
> > > using four flat head 10-32 bolts. I run the machine with
> > > an old Mechanical Etching bit in it. I cut a fine "L" in
> > > the plastic. In the "L" I drill and tap 2-56 bolt holes.
> > > I then place a PCB under the bolt heads. This helps me
> > > locate where the other screws go.
> > > The board is held down on all sides with just the
> > > bolt heads. If you use a 60 degree Mechanical Etching bit
> > > variations in copper and board will not be a problem. This
> > > is if the board is cuped up! The single sided ones I buy
> > > are.
> > > My machine will do a trace between a pad. Two traces
> > > between a pad!!! No way! I have seen the sample boards on
> > > those site. Show me the boards made by regular people using
> > > their machine. No burrs either, just perfect traces.
> > > The boards I use have very thick copper. If I get
> > > the money, I will try some PCB made for Mechanical Etching.
> > >
> > > John
> > >
> > > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@y..., Alan Marconett KM6VV <KM6VV@a...>
> wrote:
> > > > Hi John,
> > > >
> > > > Good tips! When you bolt your boards down, how much deviation
> is
> > > left?
> > > > I just looked at LPKF (again, for the 1000th time), and they are
> > > VERY
> > > > precise! TWO traces between pads. And I'm thinking that if the
> > > depth
> > > > is controlled more closely, bit life will be improved.
> > > >
> > > > Alan KM6VV
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > crankorgan wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Hi Alan,
> > > > > I see that! I use the heads of 2-56 bolts to hold
> > > > > my boards down. The ones I buy are cuped foil side up. They
> > > > > are 4" X 6". The bolts go into a piece of 1/4" PVC. I find
> > > > > holding the board by the edge-the best method so far. Since
> > > > > all my boards are 4" X 6" I only have to take two bolts out
> > > > > and the board slides out the end. The bolts pull the board
> > > > > down flat. When I do smaller boards, I have other rows of
> > > > > taped holes in the PVC. The Tit4Tat board was 1/2 of the
> > > > > 4" X 6" board. I would make two at once. I used to make 4
> > > > > 1 axis boards out of one 4" X 6". Tape is fine for doing
> > > > > a flat pcb, but most surplus boards come warped.
> > > > > How would I fix a warped board when making a double
> > > > > sided board? Simple, use one or two bolts in the middle of the
> > > blank.
> > > > > They then become mounting holes.
> > > > >
> > > > > John
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@y..., Alan Marconett KM6VV <KM6VV@a...>
> > > wrote:
> > > > > > Hi Listies,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Some activity on the CCED list about LPKF and holding PCB's
> > > down to
> > > > > mill
> > > > > > them. Anyone here have the LPKF system?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > http://www.lpkfusa.com/products/product/rapidpcbpro/index.htm
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I'd like to get a closer view of the Z height "tracking
> donut"
> > > on
> > > > > this
> > > > > > machine. And, I'm in the process of downloading a demo of
> their
> > > > > > program.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Alan KM6VV
> > > > > > P.S. I'm also looking at a low-cost Gerber to Gcode
> translation
> > > > > program
> > > > > > that should be available soon! More details when past beta.
> > > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Bookmarks and
> files:
> > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
> > >
> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > Homebrew_PCBs-unsubscribe@y...
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Bookmarks and files:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Homebrew_PCBs-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Hi Alan,
I don't mind the short life of the tool, its the
cost. The bits are $7 each when you buy ten and you have
to buy ten!
I am milling at 6" per minute with a Dremel. That's
15,000 RPMs. The bits can move .0004" to .0006" of feed for
every RPM. That's the speed limit. So if you own a Taig or Sherline
you are out of luck unless you bought the 10,000 RPM spindle. That
gives you 5" per minute for $1000 worth of machine. Alot of the
EXPERTS out there never mention this. This is how I know they have
their boots on and their shovels in hand. There are no bits out there
that can mill boards with slower spindle speeds unless you
slow the feedrate down to a snails pace. Have you ever droped by
Think and Tinker? That where I get my bits and info.
A real circuit board machine has a 20,000 to 50,000 RPM
spindle. I ran my Dremel at 20,000 for awhile. 15,000 RPMs gives
me good Dremel and bit life. I have made over 200 4" X 6" boards
to date. I save the old bits. There are people out there that
do re-sharpening. I might even give it a try myself.


John

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@y..., Alan Marconett KM6VV <KM6VV@a...> wrote:
> Hi John,
>
> Thanks for the comments. I hadn't looked for PVC on ebay. Should
be a
> lot cheaper to ship then BRASS! I have some Plexiglas, but I doubt
if
> that is suitable. I've heard of some dense foam (PDF or
something??)
> that is used on routers, but I have no source for it.
>
> I'm aware that PCB stock is available in 1 and 2 oz foil weights,
but I
> hadn't heard of the copper being any more or less soft. Copper WILL
> work harden, but that shouldn't apply here.
>
> Yes, milling a board first is a FAST way to get a prototype, and if
a
> Gerber file is generated, then the files can be sent off for
commercial
> boards.
>
> I'm a little dismayed at the short life of the bits. Especially if
they
> don't make it through a complete board! What speed spindle do you
> have? I have a Dremel tool that will have to do for a while.
>
> Yes, you are certainly doing OK for a $125 machine! After that,
it's
> the "law of diminishing returns", I'm afraid.
>
> Alan KM6VV
>
> crankorgan wrote:
> >
> > Hi Alan,
> > I only buy scrap PVC 1/4" thick grey. There is a guy on
> > Ebay who sells several 18" X 18" pieces for around $10 plus
> > shipping. I have picked up some for even less. You can drill it,
> > tap it, sand it, and glue it. Hobby stores sell it in thinner
> > sizes. Robotic people use it. I just mount the PVC to my Bed
> > which is also PVC. I used to mill my fixtures flat. Now my
> > designs are more accurate.
> > Some PCB have foil that is thinner and some have foil
> > that is softer. The surplus I buy is tough as nails. Not one
> > trace has ever lifted or torn.
> > The 60 degree bit will allow you to have an uneven Bed
> > or board. Some areas will be milled wider, but they will still
> > be milled! Since my boards come from the same place they are
> > the same thickness and size. This allows me to come off the
> > home positions to mill the board.
> > I consider milling circuit boards a great way to check
> > a design before you send the boards out to be made. I use the
> > method to make the boards I sell. I am able to sell a board for
> > the same price the customer could make it for. I also make a small
> > profit. The biggest cost is the bit! $7 each and in my case that
> > is only one board.
> > I see you asked about wear on the other group. I use a
> > LFKF-T-Tech type bit. Micro-grain carbide. You get about 600 good
> > inches and an other 200 inches of so so milling. I have my bit
> > make starter holes at the end of the run in each pad. That takes
the
> > bit its last mile. The expensive machines spin the bit much
faster.
> > This helps the bit last longer. Several people who use the real
> > machine told me I am doing ok! Not bad for a $125 machine.
> >
> > John
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@y..., Alan Marconett KM6VV <KM6VV@a...>
wrote:
> > > Hi John,
> > >
> > > Where do you get the PVC, other then a "plastics" store?
Anything I
> > > missed? I think there is a TAP plastics in San Jose, CA.
> > >
> > > The 'L' picks up two edges of the PCB? Do you flycut the PVC
flat
> > > first? should true it up.
> > >
> > > I have a 60 degree engraving bit that was recommended to me.
> > >
> > > Yeah, getting two traces between pads is a little hard to
achieve!
> > I'll
> > > settle for a single trace. I've seen their sample boards,
really
> > nice.
> > >
> > > Are you saying that they use thinner copper or a special board
for
> > > mechanical etching? I hadn't heard that.
> > >
> > > Alan KM6VV
> > >
> > > crankorgan wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hi Alan,
> > > > I mount a 8" X 8" piece of 1/4" PVC to my bed
> > > > using four flat head 10-32 bolts. I run the machine with
> > > > an old Mechanical Etching bit in it. I cut a fine "L" in
> > > > the plastic. In the "L" I drill and tap 2-56 bolt holes.
> > > > I then place a PCB under the bolt heads. This helps me
> > > > locate where the other screws go.
> > > > The board is held down on all sides with just the
> > > > bolt heads. If you use a 60 degree Mechanical Etching bit
> > > > variations in copper and board will not be a problem. This
> > > > is if the board is cuped up! The single sided ones I buy
> > > > are.
> > > > My machine will do a trace between a pad. Two traces
> > > > between a pad!!! No way! I have seen the sample boards on
> > > > those site. Show me the boards made by regular people using
> > > > their machine. No burrs either, just perfect traces.
> > > > The boards I use have very thick copper. If I get
> > > > the money, I will try some PCB made for Mechanical Etching.
> > > >
> > > > John
> > > >
> > > > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@y..., Alan Marconett KM6VV <KM6VV@a...>
> > wrote:
> > > > > Hi John,
> > > > >
> > > > > Good tips! When you bolt your boards down, how much
deviation
> > is
> > > > left?
> > > > > I just looked at LPKF (again, for the 1000th time), and
they are
> > > > VERY
> > > > > precise! TWO traces between pads. And I'm thinking that
if the
> > > > depth
> > > > > is controlled more closely, bit life will be improved.
> > > > >
> > > > > Alan KM6VV
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > crankorgan wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Hi Alan,
> > > > > > I see that! I use the heads of 2-56 bolts to hold
> > > > > > my boards down. The ones I buy are cuped foil side up.
They
> > > > > > are 4" X 6". The bolts go into a piece of 1/4" PVC. I find
> > > > > > holding the board by the edge-the best method so far.
Since
> > > > > > all my boards are 4" X 6" I only have to take two bolts
out
> > > > > > and the board slides out the end. The bolts pull the board
> > > > > > down flat. When I do smaller boards, I have other rows of
> > > > > > taped holes in the PVC. The Tit4Tat board was 1/2 of the
> > > > > > 4" X 6" board. I would make two at once. I used to make 4
> > > > > > 1 axis boards out of one 4" X 6". Tape is fine for doing
> > > > > > a flat pcb, but most surplus boards come warped.
> > > > > > How would I fix a warped board when making a
double
> > > > > > sided board? Simple, use one or two bolts in the middle
of the
> > > > blank.
> > > > > > They then become mounting holes.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > John
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@y..., Alan Marconett KM6VV
<KM6VV@a...>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > Hi Listies,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Some activity on the CCED list about LPKF and holding
PCB's
> > > > down to
> > > > > > mill
> > > > > > > them. Anyone here have the LPKF system?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > http://www.lpkfusa.com/products/product/rapidpcbpro/index.htm
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I'd like to get a closer view of the Z height "tracking
> > donut"
> > > > on
> > > > > > this
> > > > > > > machine. And, I'm in the process of downloading a demo
of
> > their
> > > > > > > program.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Alan KM6VV
> > > > > > > P.S. I'm also looking at a low-cost Gerber to Gcode
> > translation
> > > > > > program
> > > > > > > that should be available soon! More details when past
beta.
> > > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Bookmarks
and
> > files:
> > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
> > > >
> > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > > Homebrew_PCBs-unsubscribe@y...
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> > Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Bookmarks and
files:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > Homebrew_PCBs-unsubscribe@y...
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Hi Alan,
One of my customers was making things out of a
cutting board. Seems some of them are white UMB plastic.
UMB acts like nylon. I think it's UMB? So many letters
to remember. RCA-JVC-PVC-TRW-ETC.

John

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@y..., Alan Marconett KM6VV <KM6VV@a...> wrote:
> Hi John,
>
> Thanks for the comments. I hadn't looked for PVC on ebay. Should
be a
> lot cheaper to ship then BRASS! I have some Plexiglas, but I doubt
if
> that is suitable. I've heard of some dense foam (PDF or
something??)
> that is used on routers, but I have no source for it.
>
> I'm aware that PCB stock is available in 1 and 2 oz foil weights,
but I
> hadn't heard of the copper being any more or less soft. Copper WILL
> work harden, but that shouldn't apply here.
>
> Yes, milling a board first is a FAST way to get a prototype, and if
a
> Gerber file is generated, then the files can be sent off for
commercial
> boards.
>
> I'm a little dismayed at the short life of the bits. Especially if
they
> don't make it through a complete board! What speed spindle do you
> have? I have a Dremel tool that will have to do for a while.
>
> Yes, you are certainly doing OK for a $125 machine! After that,
it's
> the "law of diminishing returns", I'm afraid.
>
> Alan KM6VV
>
> crankorgan wrote:
> >
> > Hi Alan,
> > I only buy scrap PVC 1/4" thick grey. There is a guy on
> > Ebay who sells several 18" X 18" pieces for around $10 plus
> > shipping. I have picked up some for even less. You can drill it,
> > tap it, sand it, and glue it. Hobby stores sell it in thinner
> > sizes. Robotic people use it. I just mount the PVC to my Bed
> > which is also PVC. I used to mill my fixtures flat. Now my
> > designs are more accurate.
> > Some PCB have foil that is thinner and some have foil
> > that is softer. The surplus I buy is tough as nails. Not one
> > trace has ever lifted or torn.
> > The 60 degree bit will allow you to have an uneven Bed
> > or board. Some areas will be milled wider, but they will still
> > be milled! Since my boards come from the same place they are
> > the same thickness and size. This allows me to come off the
> > home positions to mill the board.
> > I consider milling circuit boards a great way to check
> > a design before you send the boards out to be made. I use the
> > method to make the boards I sell. I am able to sell a board for
> > the same price the customer could make it for. I also make a small
> > profit. The biggest cost is the bit! $7 each and in my case that
> > is only one board.
> > I see you asked about wear on the other group. I use a
> > LFKF-T-Tech type bit. Micro-grain carbide. You get about 600 good
> > inches and an other 200 inches of so so milling. I have my bit
> > make starter holes at the end of the run in each pad. That takes
the
> > bit its last mile. The expensive machines spin the bit much
faster.
> > This helps the bit last longer. Several people who use the real
> > machine told me I am doing ok! Not bad for a $125 machine.
> >
> > John
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@y..., Alan Marconett KM6VV <KM6VV@a...>
wrote:
> > > Hi John,
> > >
> > > Where do you get the PVC, other then a "plastics" store?
Anything I
> > > missed? I think there is a TAP plastics in San Jose, CA.
> > >
> > > The 'L' picks up two edges of the PCB? Do you flycut the PVC
flat
> > > first? should true it up.
> > >
> > > I have a 60 degree engraving bit that was recommended to me.
> > >
> > > Yeah, getting two traces between pads is a little hard to
achieve!
> > I'll
> > > settle for a single trace. I've seen their sample boards,
really
> > nice.
> > >
> > > Are you saying that they use thinner copper or a special board
for
> > > mechanical etching? I hadn't heard that.
> > >
> > > Alan KM6VV
> > >
> > > crankorgan wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hi Alan,
> > > > I mount a 8" X 8" piece of 1/4" PVC to my bed
> > > > using four flat head 10-32 bolts. I run the machine with
> > > > an old Mechanical Etching bit in it. I cut a fine "L" in
> > > > the plastic. In the "L" I drill and tap 2-56 bolt holes.
> > > > I then place a PCB under the bolt heads. This helps me
> > > > locate where the other screws go.
> > > > The board is held down on all sides with just the
> > > > bolt heads. If you use a 60 degree Mechanical Etching bit
> > > > variations in copper and board will not be a problem. This
> > > > is if the board is cuped up! The single sided ones I buy
> > > > are.
> > > > My machine will do a trace between a pad. Two traces
> > > > between a pad!!! No way! I have seen the sample boards on
> > > > those site. Show me the boards made by regular people using
> > > > their machine. No burrs either, just perfect traces.
> > > > The boards I use have very thick copper. If I get
> > > > the money, I will try some PCB made for Mechanical Etching.
> > > >
> > > > John
> > > >
> > > > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@y..., Alan Marconett KM6VV <KM6VV@a...>
> > wrote:
> > > > > Hi John,
> > > > >
> > > > > Good tips! When you bolt your boards down, how much
deviation
> > is
> > > > left?
> > > > > I just looked at LPKF (again, for the 1000th time), and
they are
> > > > VERY
> > > > > precise! TWO traces between pads. And I'm thinking that
if the
> > > > depth
> > > > > is controlled more closely, bit life will be improved.
> > > > >
> > > > > Alan KM6VV
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > crankorgan wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Hi Alan,
> > > > > > I see that! I use the heads of 2-56 bolts to hold
> > > > > > my boards down. The ones I buy are cuped foil side up.
They
> > > > > > are 4" X 6". The bolts go into a piece of 1/4" PVC. I find
> > > > > > holding the board by the edge-the best method so far.
Since
> > > > > > all my boards are 4" X 6" I only have to take two bolts
out
> > > > > > and the board slides out the end. The bolts pull the board
> > > > > > down flat. When I do smaller boards, I have other rows of
> > > > > > taped holes in the PVC. The Tit4Tat board was 1/2 of the
> > > > > > 4" X 6" board. I would make two at once. I used to make 4
> > > > > > 1 axis boards out of one 4" X 6". Tape is fine for doing
> > > > > > a flat pcb, but most surplus boards come warped.
> > > > > > How would I fix a warped board when making a
double
> > > > > > sided board? Simple, use one or two bolts in the middle
of the
> > > > blank.
> > > > > > They then become mounting holes.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > John
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@y..., Alan Marconett KM6VV
<KM6VV@a...>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > Hi Listies,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Some activity on the CCED list about LPKF and holding
PCB's
> > > > down to
> > > > > > mill
> > > > > > > them. Anyone here have the LPKF system?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > http://www.lpkfusa.com/products/product/rapidpcbpro/index.htm
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I'd like to get a closer view of the Z height "tracking
> > donut"
> > > > on
> > > > > > this
> > > > > > > machine. And, I'm in the process of downloading a demo
of
> > their
> > > > > > > program.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Alan KM6VV
> > > > > > > P.S. I'm also looking at a low-cost Gerber to Gcode
> > translation
> > > > > > program
> > > > > > > that should be available soon! More details when past
beta.
> > > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Bookmarks
and
> > files:
> > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
> > > >
> > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > > Homebrew_PCBs-unsubscribe@y...
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> > Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Bookmarks and
files:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > Homebrew_PCBs-unsubscribe@y...
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Hi John,

I have a Dremel tool adapter for my Sherline mill, which is CNC. The
Sherline is for CNC, not PCB's, as they would have to be less then 3"
wide on my old Sherline.

My wife bought me a new Dremel tool, since I hadn't seen my old one
since we moved. You guessed it, I found my old one (20+years) soon
after. The new one does 30000 RPM as I recall, although I'd rather
experiment with the old one first.

My real PCB router project is still in planning, I have an assortment of
surplus parts which should give me a 12" x 12" table. All I need is
time to get stuff put together. Making the bridge frame (1/4" aluminum
plate) and the base will take a while. And it seems I always have other
projects that need attention! One is the controller program to run it!

Which Dremel are you using, the one with a 30000 top end? Yes, I know
of think and tinker, and also Tinkers-emporium, where I bought a few
boxes of assorted carbide drill bits. I think my engraver bit came from
MSC, a tool supplier.

Your feed numbers are interesting. I've never sat down and worked them
out before. Where did you get your numbers?

crankorgan wrote:

>
> Hi Alan,
> I don't mind the short life of the tool, its the
> cost. The bits are $7 each when you buy ten and you have
> to buy ten!
> I am milling at 6" per minute with a Dremel. That's
> 15,000 RPMs. The bits can move .0004" to .0006" of feed for
> every RPM. That's the speed limit. So if you own a Taig or Sherline
> you are out of luck unless you bought the 10,000 RPM spindle. That
> gives you 5" per minute for $1000 worth of machine. Alot of the
> EXPERTS out there never mention this. This is how I know they have
> their boots on and their shovels in hand. There are no bits out there
> that can mill boards with slower spindle speeds unless you
> slow the feedrate down to a snails pace. Have you ever droped by
> Think and Tinker? That where I get my bits and info.
> A real circuit board machine has a 20,000 to 50,000 RPM
> spindle. I ran my Dremel at 20,000 for awhile. 15,000 RPMs gives
> me good Dremel and bit life. I have made over 200 4" X 6" boards
> to date. I save the old bits. There are people out there that
> do re-sharpening. I might even give it a try myself.
>
>
> John

Hi John,

Yeah, UMB is like nylon. It would be a good surface to work on. There
is also that dense foam I mentioned, another TLA (three letter acronym)
that I still can't recall. UWF??

Alan KM6VV


crankorgan wrote:

>
> Hi Alan,
> One of my customers was making things out of a
> cutting board. Seems some of them are white UMB plastic.
> UMB acts like nylon. I think it's UMB? So many letters
> to remember. RCA-JVC-PVC-TRW-ETC.
>
> John
>
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@y..., Alan Marconett KM6VV <KM6VV@a...> wrote:
> > Hi John,
> >
> > Thanks for the comments. I hadn't looked for PVC on ebay. Should
> be a
> > lot cheaper to ship then BRASS! I have some Plexiglas, but I doubt
> if
> > that is suitable. I've heard of some dense foam (PDF or
> something??)
> > that is used on routers, but I have no source for it.
> >
> > I'm aware that PCB stock is available in 1 and 2 oz foil weights,
> but I
> > hadn't heard of the copper being any more or less soft. Copper WILL
> > work harden, but that shouldn't apply here.
> >
> > Yes, milling a board first is a FAST way to get a prototype, and if
> a
> > Gerber file is generated, then the files can be sent off for
> commercial
> > boards.
> >
> > I'm a little dismayed at the short life of the bits. Especially if
> they
> > don't make it through a complete board! What speed spindle do you
> > have? I have a Dremel tool that will have to do for a while.
> >
> > Yes, you are certainly doing OK for a $125 machine! After that,
> it's
> > the "law of diminishing returns", I'm afraid.
> >
> > Alan KM6VV
> >
> > crankorgan wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi Alan,
> > > I only buy scrap PVC 1/4" thick grey. There is a guy on
> > > Ebay who sells several 18" X 18" pieces for around $10 plus
> > > shipping. I have picked up some for even less. You can drill it,
> > > tap it, sand it, and glue it. Hobby stores sell it in thinner
> > > sizes. Robotic people use it. I just mount the PVC to my Bed
> > > which is also PVC. I used to mill my fixtures flat. Now my
> > > designs are more accurate.
> > > Some PCB have foil that is thinner and some have foil
> > > that is softer. The surplus I buy is tough as nails. Not one
> > > trace has ever lifted or torn.
> > > The 60 degree bit will allow you to have an uneven Bed
> > > or board. Some areas will be milled wider, but they will still
> > > be milled! Since my boards come from the same place they are
> > > the same thickness and size. This allows me to come off the
> > > home positions to mill the board.
> > > I consider milling circuit boards a great way to check
> > > a design before you send the boards out to be made. I use the
> > > method to make the boards I sell. I am able to sell a board for
> > > the same price the customer could make it for. I also make a small
> > > profit. The biggest cost is the bit! $7 each and in my case that
> > > is only one board.
> > > I see you asked about wear on the other group. I use a
> > > LFKF-T-Tech type bit. Micro-grain carbide. You get about 600 good
> > > inches and an other 200 inches of so so milling. I have my bit
> > > make starter holes at the end of the run in each pad. That takes
> the
> > > bit its last mile. The expensive machines spin the bit much
> faster.
> > > This helps the bit last longer. Several people who use the real
> > > machine told me I am doing ok! Not bad for a $125 machine.
> > >
> > > John
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@y..., Alan Marconett KM6VV <KM6VV@a...>
> wrote:
> > > > Hi John,
> > > >
> > > > Where do you get the PVC, other then a "plastics" store?
> Anything I
> > > > missed? I think there is a TAP plastics in San Jose, CA.
> > > >
> > > > The 'L' picks up two edges of the PCB? Do you flycut the PVC
> flat
> > > > first? should true it up.
> > > >
> > > > I have a 60 degree engraving bit that was recommended to me.
> > > >
> > > > Yeah, getting two traces between pads is a little hard to
> achieve!
> > > I'll
> > > > settle for a single trace. I've seen their sample boards,
> really
> > > nice.
> > > >
> > > > Are you saying that they use thinner copper or a special board
> for
> > > > mechanical etching? I hadn't heard that.
> > > >
> > > > Alan KM6VV
> > > >
> > > > crankorgan wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Hi Alan,
> > > > > I mount a 8" X 8" piece of 1/4" PVC to my bed
> > > > > using four flat head 10-32 bolts. I run the machine with
> > > > > an old Mechanical Etching bit in it. I cut a fine "L" in
> > > > > the plastic. In the "L" I drill and tap 2-56 bolt holes.
> > > > > I then place a PCB under the bolt heads. This helps me
> > > > > locate where the other screws go.
> > > > > The board is held down on all sides with just the
> > > > > bolt heads. If you use a 60 degree Mechanical Etching bit
> > > > > variations in copper and board will not be a problem. This
> > > > > is if the board is cuped up! The single sided ones I buy
> > > > > are.
> > > > > My machine will do a trace between a pad. Two traces
> > > > > between a pad!!! No way! I have seen the sample boards on
> > > > > those site. Show me the boards made by regular people using
> > > > > their machine. No burrs either, just perfect traces.
> > > > > The boards I use have very thick copper. If I get
> > > > > the money, I will try some PCB made for Mechanical Etching.
> > > > >
> > > > > John
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@y..., Alan Marconett KM6VV <KM6VV@a...>
> > > wrote:
> > > > > > Hi John,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Good tips! When you bolt your boards down, how much
> deviation
> > > is
> > > > > left?
> > > > > > I just looked at LPKF (again, for the 1000th time), and
> they are
> > > > > VERY
> > > > > > precise! TWO traces between pads. And I'm thinking that
> if the
> > > > > depth
> > > > > > is controlled more closely, bit life will be improved.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Alan KM6VV
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > crankorgan wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Hi Alan,
> > > > > > > I see that! I use the heads of 2-56 bolts to hold
> > > > > > > my boards down. The ones I buy are cuped foil side up.
> They
> > > > > > > are 4" X 6". The bolts go into a piece of 1/4" PVC. I find
> > > > > > > holding the board by the edge-the best method so far.
> Since
> > > > > > > all my boards are 4" X 6" I only have to take two bolts
> out
> > > > > > > and the board slides out the end. The bolts pull the board
> > > > > > > down flat. When I do smaller boards, I have other rows of
> > > > > > > taped holes in the PVC. The Tit4Tat board was 1/2 of the
> > > > > > > 4" X 6" board. I would make two at once. I used to make 4
> > > > > > > 1 axis boards out of one 4" X 6". Tape is fine for doing
> > > > > > > a flat pcb, but most surplus boards come warped.
> > > > > > > How would I fix a warped board when making a
> double
> > > > > > > sided board? Simple, use one or two bolts in the middle
> of the
> > > > > blank.
> > > > > > > They then become mounting holes.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > John
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@y..., Alan Marconett KM6VV
> <KM6VV@a...>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > Hi Listies,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Some activity on the CCED list about LPKF and holding
> PCB's
> > > > > down to
> > > > > > > mill
> > > > > > > > them. Anyone here have the LPKF system?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > http://www.lpkfusa.com/products/product/rapidpcbpro/index.htm
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I'd like to get a closer view of the Z height "tracking
> > > donut"
> > > > > on
> > > > > > > this
> > > > > > > > machine. And, I'm in the process of downloading a demo
> of
> > > their
> > > > > > > > program.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Alan KM6VV
> > > > > > > > P.S. I'm also looking at a low-cost Gerber to Gcode
> > > translation
> > > > > > > program
> > > > > > > > that should be available soon! More details when past
> beta.
> > > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Bookmarks
> and
> > > files:
> > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
> > > > >
> > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > > > Homebrew_PCBs-unsubscribe@y...
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >
> > >
> > > Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Bookmarks and
> files:
> > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
> > >
> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > Homebrew_PCBs-unsubscribe@y...
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Bookmarks and files:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
>
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> Homebrew_PCBs-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
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Hi Alan,
I just bought a new Dremel multipro a few weeks back. It
does 30,000 without breaking a sweat. My first Multipro developed
some runout that comes and goes. After that experence I have learned
to keep the Dremel at Number 3 for best results. I got my numbers
from the guy at Think & Tinker. A real shocker to find out the Taig
and Sherline spindles are too slow. So many people were claiming they
were making circuit boards with them. It's Dremel or nothing. I made
a homemade spindle using race car motor. Thought it was quit until I
bolted it to the machine. I just wish there were cheaper bits. Dental
bits don't come with 60 degree tips.
On the internet you always see test boards with a few traces.
The problems show up after 20 minutes of cutting. This is when you
are on the other side of the board. The bit is getting dull and the
board is getting thicker. Everything in life is easy until you do
it for real.

John

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@y..., Alan Marconett KM6VV <KM6VV@a...> wrote:
> Hi John,
>
> I have a Dremel tool adapter for my Sherline mill, which is CNC.
The
> Sherline is for CNC, not PCB's, as they would have to be less then
3"
> wide on my old Sherline.
>
> My wife bought me a new Dremel tool, since I hadn't seen my old one
> since we moved. You guessed it, I found my old one (20+years) soon
> after. The new one does 30000 RPM as I recall, although I'd rather
> experiment with the old one first.
>
> My real PCB router project is still in planning, I have an
assortment of
> surplus parts which should give me a 12" x 12" table. All I need is
> time to get stuff put together. Making the bridge frame (1/4"
aluminum
> plate) and the base will take a while. And it seems I always have
other
> projects that need attention! One is the controller program to run
it!
>
> Which Dremel are you using, the one with a 30000 top end? Yes, I
know
> of think and tinker, and also Tinkers-emporium, where I bought a few
> boxes of assorted carbide drill bits. I think my engraver bit came
from
> MSC, a tool supplier.
>
> Your feed numbers are interesting. I've never sat down and worked
them
> out before. Where did you get your numbers?
>
> crankorgan wrote:
> >
> > Hi Alan,
> > I don't mind the short life of the tool, its the
> > cost. The bits are $7 each when you buy ten and you have
> > to buy ten!
> > I am milling at 6" per minute with a Dremel. That's
> > 15,000 RPMs. The bits can move .0004" to .0006" of feed for
> > every RPM. That's the speed limit. So if you own a Taig or
Sherline
> > you are out of luck unless you bought the 10,000 RPM spindle. That
> > gives you 5" per minute for $1000 worth of machine. Alot of the
> > EXPERTS out there never mention this. This is how I know they have
> > their boots on and their shovels in hand. There are no bits out
there
> > that can mill boards with slower spindle speeds unless you
> > slow the feedrate down to a snails pace. Have you ever droped by
> > Think and Tinker? That where I get my bits and info.
> > A real circuit board machine has a 20,000 to 50,000 RPM
> > spindle. I ran my Dremel at 20,000 for awhile. 15,000 RPMs gives
> > me good Dremel and bit life. I have made over 200 4" X 6" boards
> > to date. I save the old bits. There are people out there that
> > do re-sharpening. I might even give it a try myself.
> >
> >
> > John

I just checked out a whole bunch of this kind of material and using
this size for comparison 12"x12"X0.25"
prices range from $6.00 to $600.00

http://www.interstateplastics.com/fmabout.htm

Examples:
Pomalux $14.39
Delrin $15.75
Lenite $6.04 It's Polyethylene but easy to machine and may be stable
enough to hold PCB's for milling.

Hans W

Alan Marconett KM6VV wrote:

> Hi John,
>
> Yeah, UMB is like nylon. It would be a good surface to work on.
> There
> is also that dense foam I mentioned, another TLA (three letter
> acronym)
> that I still can't recall. UWF??
>
> Alan KM6VV
>
>
> crankorgan wrote:
> >
> > Hi Alan,
> > One of my customers was making things out of a
> > cutting board. Seems some of them are white UMB plastic.
> > UMB acts like nylon. I think it's UMB? So many letters
> > to remember. RCA-JVC-PVC-TRW-ETC.
> >
> > John
> >
> > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@y..., Alan Marconett KM6VV <KM6VV@a...> wrote:
> > > Hi John,
> > >
> > > Thanks for the comments. I hadn't looked for PVC on ebay. Should
>
> > be a
> > > lot cheaper to ship then BRASS! I have some Plexiglas, but I
> doubt
> > if
> > > that is suitable. I've heard of some dense foam (PDF or
> > something??)
> > > that is used on routers, but I have no source for it.
> > >
> > > I'm aware that PCB stock is available in 1 and 2 oz foil weights,
> > but I
> > > hadn't heard of the copper being any more or less soft. Copper
> WILL
> > > work harden, but that shouldn't apply here.
> > >
> > > Yes, milling a board first is a FAST way to get a prototype, and
> if
> > a
> > > Gerber file is generated, then the files can be sent off for
> > commercial
> > > boards.
> > >
> > > I'm a little dismayed at the short life of the bits. Especially if
>
> > they
> > > don't make it through a complete board! What speed spindle do you
>
> > > have? I have a Dremel tool that will have to do for a while.
> > >
> > > Yes, you are certainly doing OK for a $125 machine! After that,
> > it's
> > > the "law of diminishing returns", I'm afraid.
> > >
> > > Alan KM6VV
> > >
> > > crankorgan wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hi Alan,
> > > > I only buy scrap PVC 1/4" thick grey. There is a guy on
> > > > Ebay who sells several 18" X 18" pieces for around $10 plus
> > > > shipping. I have picked up some for even less. You can drill it,
>
> > > > tap it, sand it, and glue it. Hobby stores sell it in thinner
> > > > sizes. Robotic people use it. I just mount the PVC to my Bed
> > > > which is also PVC. I used to mill my fixtures flat. Now my
> > > > designs are more accurate.
> > > > Some PCB have foil that is thinner and some have foil
> > > > that is softer. The surplus I buy is tough as nails. Not one
> > > > trace has ever lifted or torn.
> > > > The 60 degree bit will allow you to have an uneven Bed
> > > > or board. Some areas will be milled wider, but they will still
> > > > be milled! Since my boards come from the same place they are
> > > > the same thickness and size. This allows me to come off the
> > > > home positions to mill the board.
> > > > I consider milling circuit boards a great way to check
> > > > a design before you send the boards out to be made. I use the
> > > > method to make the boards I sell. I am able to sell a board for
> > > > the same price the customer could make it for. I also make a
> small
> > > > profit. The biggest cost is the bit! $7 each and in my case
> that
> > > > is only one board.
> > > > I see you asked about wear on the other group. I use a
> > > > LFKF-T-Tech type bit. Micro-grain carbide. You get about 600
> good
> > > > inches and an other 200 inches of so so milling. I have my bit
> > > > make starter holes at the end of the run in each pad. That takes
>
> > the
> > > > bit its last mile. The expensive machines spin the bit much
> > faster.
> > > > This helps the bit last longer. Several people who use the real
> > > > machine told me I am doing ok! Not bad for a $125 machine.
> > > >
> > > > John
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@y..., Alan Marconett KM6VV <KM6VV@a...>
> > wrote:
> > > > > Hi John,
> > > > >
> > > > > Where do you get the PVC, other then a "plastics" store?
> > Anything I
> > > > > missed? I think there is a TAP plastics in San Jose, CA.
> > > > >
> > > > > The 'L' picks up two edges of the PCB? Do you flycut the PVC
> > flat
> > > > > first? should true it up.
> > > > >
> > > > > I have a 60 degree engraving bit that was recommended to me.
> > > > >
> > > > > Yeah, getting two traces between pads is a little hard to
> > achieve!
> > > > I'll
> > > > > settle for a single trace. I've seen their sample boards,
> > really
> > > > nice.
> > > > >
> > > > > Are you saying that they use thinner copper or a special board
>
> > for
> > > > > mechanical etching? I hadn't heard that.
> > > > >
> > > > > Alan KM6VV
> > > > >
> > > > > crankorgan wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Hi Alan,
> > > > > > I mount a 8" X 8" piece of 1/4" PVC to my bed
> > > > > > using four flat head 10-32 bolts. I run the machine with
> > > > > > an old Mechanical Etching bit in it. I cut a fine "L" in
> > > > > > the plastic. In the "L" I drill and tap 2-56 bolt holes.
> > > > > > I then place a PCB under the bolt heads. This helps me
> > > > > > locate where the other screws go.
> > > > > > The board is held down on all sides with just the
> > > > > > bolt heads. If you use a 60 degree Mechanical Etching bit
> > > > > > variations in copper and board will not be a problem. This
> > > > > > is if the board is cuped up! The single sided ones I buy
> > > > > > are.
> > > > > > My machine will do a trace between a pad. Two traces
> > > > > > between a pad!!! No way! I have seen the sample boards on
> > > > > > those site. Show me the boards made by regular people using
> > > > > > their machine. No burrs either, just perfect traces.
> > > > > > The boards I use have very thick copper. If I get
> > > > > > the money, I will try some PCB made for Mechanical Etching.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > John
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@y..., Alan Marconett KM6VV <KM6VV@a...>
>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > Hi John,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Good tips! When you bolt your boards down, how much
> > deviation
> > > > is
> > > > > > left?
> > > > > > > I just looked at LPKF (again, for the 1000th time), and
> > they are
> > > > > > VERY
> > > > > > > precise! TWO traces between pads. And I'm thinking that
> > if the
> > > > > > depth
> > > > > > > is controlled more closely, bit life will be improved.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Alan KM6VV
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > crankorgan wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Hi Alan,
> > > > > > > > I see that! I use the heads of 2-56 bolts to
> hold
> > > > > > > > my boards down. The ones I buy are cuped foil side up.
> > They
> > > > > > > > are 4" X 6". The bolts go into a piece of 1/4" PVC. I
> find
> > > > > > > > holding the board by the edge-the best method so far.
> > Since
> > > > > > > > all my boards are 4" X 6" I only have to take two bolts
> > out
> > > > > > > > and the board slides out the end. The bolts pull the
> board
> > > > > > > > down flat. When I do smaller boards, I have other rows
> of
> > > > > > > > taped holes in the PVC. The Tit4Tat board was 1/2 of the
>
> > > > > > > > 4" X 6" board. I would make two at once. I used to make
> 4
> > > > > > > > 1 axis boards out of one 4" X 6". Tape is fine for doing
>
> > > > > > > > a flat pcb, but most surplus boards come warped.
> > > > > > > > How would I fix a warped board when making a
> > double
> > > > > > > > sided board? Simple, use one or two bolts in the middle
> > of the
> > > > > > blank.
> > > > > > > > They then become mounting holes.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > John
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@y..., Alan Marconett KM6VV
> > <KM6VV@a...>
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > Hi Listies,
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Some activity on the CCED list about LPKF and holding
> > PCB's
> > > > > > down to
> > > > > > > > mill
> > > > > > > > > them. Anyone here have the LPKF system?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> http://www.lpkfusa.com/products/product/rapidpcbpro/index.htm
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I'd like to get a closer view of the Z height
> "tracking
> > > > donut"
> > > > > > on
> > > > > > > > this
> > > > > > > > > machine. And, I'm in the process of downloading a
> demo
> > of
> > > > their
> > > > > > > > > program.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Alan KM6VV
> > > > > > > > > P.S. I'm also looking at a low-cost Gerber to Gcode
> > > > translation
> > > > > > > > program
> > > > > > > > > that should be available soon! More details when past
>
> > beta.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Bookmarks
> > and
> > > > files:
> > > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
> > > > > >
> > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > > > > Homebrew_PCBs-unsubscribe@y...
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Bookmarks and
> > files:
> > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
> > > >
> > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > > Homebrew_PCBs-unsubscribe@y...
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
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> >
> >
> > Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Bookmarks and
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> >
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> >
> >
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Hans,

Thanks for the URL. All you ever wanted to know about plastics!

Alan KM6VV

HW wrote:

>
> I just checked out a whole bunch of this kind of material and using
> this size for comparison 12"x12"X0.25"
> prices range from $6.00 to $600.00
>
> http://www.interstateplastics.com/fmabout.htm
>
> Examples:
> Pomalux $14.39
> Delrin $15.75
> Lenite $6.04 It's Polyethylene but easy to machine and may be stable
> enough to hold PCB's for milling.
>
> Hans W
>
> Alan Marconett KM6VV wrote:
>
> > Hi John,
> >
> > Yeah, UMB is like nylon. It would be a good surface to work on.
> > There
> > is also that dense foam I mentioned, another TLA (three letter
> > acronym)
> > that I still can't recall. UWF??
> >
> > Alan KM6VV
> >
> >
> > crankorgan wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi Alan,
> > > One of my customers was making things out of a
> > > cutting board. Seems some of them are white UMB plastic.
> > > UMB acts like nylon. I think it's UMB? So many letters
> > > to remember. RCA-JVC-PVC-TRW-ETC.
> > >
> > > John

Hi Hans,
I find Delrin is worth the extra cost. UMB has
me stumped. I have trouble getting clean edges. PVC make
the best bed for holding circuit boards. It cuts with
normal homeowner tools. The batch of PVC scrap I bought
off EBAY is very straight. It is almost black rather
than grey. It might not be true PVC but it taps well.
Nylon and UMB tap but the hole swells tight after
tapping. The scrap UMB I got does not have a level
surface like my PVC scrap. I have no way to machine
it flat.

John

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@y..., HW <hans@c...> wrote:
> I just checked out a whole bunch of this kind of material and using
> this size for comparison 12"x12"X0.25"
> prices range from $6.00 to $600.00
>
> http://www.interstateplastics.com/fmabout.htm
>
> Examples:
> Pomalux $14.39
> Delrin $15.75
> Lenite $6.04 It's Polyethylene but easy to machine and may be
stable
> enough to hold PCB's for milling.
>
> Hans W
>
> Alan Marconett KM6VV wrote:
>
> > Hi John,
> >
> > Yeah, UMB is like nylon. It would be a good surface to work on.
> > There
> > is also that dense foam I mentioned, another TLA (three letter
> > acronym)
> > that I still can't recall. UWF??
> >
> > Alan KM6VV
> >
> >
> > crankorgan wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi Alan,
> > > One of my customers was making things out of a
> > > cutting board. Seems some of them are white UMB plastic.
> > > UMB acts like nylon. I think it's UMB? So many letters
> > > to remember. RCA-JVC-PVC-TRW-ETC.
> > >
> > > John
> > >
> > > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@y..., Alan Marconett KM6VV <KM6VV@a...>
wrote:
> > > > Hi John,
> > > >
> > > > Thanks for the comments. I hadn't looked for PVC on ebay.
Should
> >
> > > be a
> > > > lot cheaper to ship then BRASS! I have some Plexiglas, but I
> > doubt
> > > if
> > > > that is suitable. I've heard of some dense foam (PDF or
> > > something??)
> > > > that is used on routers, but I have no source for it.
> > > >
> > > > I'm aware that PCB stock is available in 1 and 2 oz foil
weights,
> > > but I
> > > > hadn't heard of the copper being any more or less soft.
Copper
> > WILL
> > > > work harden, but that shouldn't apply here.
> > > >
> > > > Yes, milling a board first is a FAST way to get a prototype,
and
> > if
> > > a
> > > > Gerber file is generated, then the files can be sent off for
> > > commercial
> > > > boards.
> > > >
> > > > I'm a little dismayed at the short life of the bits.
Especially if
> >
> > > they
> > > > don't make it through a complete board! What speed spindle
do you
> >
> > > > have? I have a Dremel tool that will have to do for a while.
> > > >
> > > > Yes, you are certainly doing OK for a $125 machine! After
that,
> > > it's
> > > > the "law of diminishing returns", I'm afraid.
> > > >
> > > > Alan KM6VV
> > > >
> > > > crankorgan wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Hi Alan,
> > > > > I only buy scrap PVC 1/4" thick grey. There is a
guy on
> > > > > Ebay who sells several 18" X 18" pieces for around $10 plus
> > > > > shipping. I have picked up some for even less. You can
drill it,
> >
> > > > > tap it, sand it, and glue it. Hobby stores sell it in
thinner
> > > > > sizes. Robotic people use it. I just mount the PVC to my Bed
> > > > > which is also PVC. I used to mill my fixtures flat. Now my
> > > > > designs are more accurate.
> > > > > Some PCB have foil that is thinner and some have foil
> > > > > that is softer. The surplus I buy is tough as nails. Not one
> > > > > trace has ever lifted or torn.
> > > > > The 60 degree bit will allow you to have an uneven Bed
> > > > > or board. Some areas will be milled wider, but they will
still
> > > > > be milled! Since my boards come from the same place they are
> > > > > the same thickness and size. This allows me to come off the
> > > > > home positions to mill the board.
> > > > > I consider milling circuit boards a great way to
check
> > > > > a design before you send the boards out to be made. I use
the
> > > > > method to make the boards I sell. I am able to sell a board
for
> > > > > the same price the customer could make it for. I also make a
> > small
> > > > > profit. The biggest cost is the bit! $7 each and in my case
> > that
> > > > > is only one board.
> > > > > I see you asked about wear on the other group. I use
a
> > > > > LFKF-T-Tech type bit. Micro-grain carbide. You get about 600
> > good
> > > > > inches and an other 200 inches of so so milling. I have my
bit
> > > > > make starter holes at the end of the run in each pad. That
takes
> >
> > > the
> > > > > bit its last mile. The expensive machines spin the bit much
> > > faster.
> > > > > This helps the bit last longer. Several people who use the
real
> > > > > machine told me I am doing ok! Not bad for a $125 machine.
> > > > >
> > > > > John
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@y..., Alan Marconett KM6VV <KM6VV@a...>
> > > wrote:
> > > > > > Hi John,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Where do you get the PVC, other then a "plastics" store?
> > > Anything I
> > > > > > missed? I think there is a TAP plastics in San Jose, CA.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The 'L' picks up two edges of the PCB? Do you flycut the
PVC
> > > flat
> > > > > > first? should true it up.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I have a 60 degree engraving bit that was recommended to
me.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Yeah, getting two traces between pads is a little hard to
> > > achieve!
> > > > > I'll
> > > > > > settle for a single trace. I've seen their sample boards,
> > > really
> > > > > nice.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Are you saying that they use thinner copper or a special
board
> >
> > > for
> > > > > > mechanical etching? I hadn't heard that.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Alan KM6VV
> > > > > >
> > > > > > crankorgan wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Hi Alan,
> > > > > > > I mount a 8" X 8" piece of 1/4" PVC to my bed
> > > > > > > using four flat head 10-32 bolts. I run the machine with
> > > > > > > an old Mechanical Etching bit in it. I cut a fine "L" in
> > > > > > > the plastic. In the "L" I drill and tap 2-56 bolt holes.
> > > > > > > I then place a PCB under the bolt heads. This helps me
> > > > > > > locate where the other screws go.
> > > > > > > The board is held down on all sides with just
the
> > > > > > > bolt heads. If you use a 60 degree Mechanical Etching
bit
> > > > > > > variations in copper and board will not be a problem.
This
> > > > > > > is if the board is cuped up! The single sided ones I buy
> > > > > > > are.
> > > > > > > My machine will do a trace between a pad. Two
traces
> > > > > > > between a pad!!! No way! I have seen the sample boards
on
> > > > > > > those site. Show me the boards made by regular people
using
> > > > > > > their machine. No burrs either, just perfect traces.
> > > > > > > The boards I use have very thick copper. If I get
> > > > > > > the money, I will try some PCB made for Mechanical
Etching.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > John
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@y..., Alan Marconett KM6VV
<KM6VV@a...>
> >
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > Hi John,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Good tips! When you bolt your boards down, how much
> > > deviation
> > > > > is
> > > > > > > left?
> > > > > > > > I just looked at LPKF (again, for the 1000th time),
and
> > > they are
> > > > > > > VERY
> > > > > > > > precise! TWO traces between pads. And I'm thinking
that
> > > if the
> > > > > > > depth
> > > > > > > > is controlled more closely, bit life will be improved.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Alan KM6VV
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > crankorgan wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Hi Alan,
> > > > > > > > > I see that! I use the heads of 2-56 bolts
to
> > hold
> > > > > > > > > my boards down. The ones I buy are cuped foil side
up.
> > > They
> > > > > > > > > are 4" X 6". The bolts go into a piece of 1/4" PVC.
I
> > find
> > > > > > > > > holding the board by the edge-the best method so
far.
> > > Since
> > > > > > > > > all my boards are 4" X 6" I only have to take two
bolts
> > > out
> > > > > > > > > and the board slides out the end. The bolts pull the
> > board
> > > > > > > > > down flat. When I do smaller boards, I have other
rows
> > of
> > > > > > > > > taped holes in the PVC. The Tit4Tat board was 1/2
of the
> >
> > > > > > > > > 4" X 6" board. I would make two at once. I used to
make
> > 4
> > > > > > > > > 1 axis boards out of one 4" X 6". Tape is fine for
doing
> >
> > > > > > > > > a flat pcb, but most surplus boards come warped.
> > > > > > > > > How would I fix a warped board when making
a
> > > double
> > > > > > > > > sided board? Simple, use one or two bolts in the
middle
> > > of the
> > > > > > > blank.
> > > > > > > > > They then become mounting holes.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > John
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@y..., Alan Marconett KM6VV
> > > <KM6VV@a...>
> > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > Hi Listies,
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Some activity on the CCED list about LPKF and
holding
> > > PCB's
> > > > > > > down to
> > > > > > > > > mill
> > > > > > > > > > them. Anyone here have the LPKF system?
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > http://www.lpkfusa.com/products/product/rapidpcbpro/index.htm
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > I'd like to get a closer view of the Z height
> > "tracking
> > > > > donut"
> > > > > > > on
> > > > > > > > > this
> > > > > > > > > > machine. And, I'm in the process of downloading a
> > demo
> > > of
> > > > > their
> > > > > > > > > > program.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Alan KM6VV
> > > > > > > > > > P.S. I'm also looking at a low-cost Gerber to
Gcode
> > > > > translation
> > > > > > > > > program
> > > > > > > > > > that should be available soon! More details when
past
> >
> > > beta.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Be sure to visit the group home and check for new
Bookmarks
> > > and
> > > > > files:
> > > > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > > > > > Homebrew_PCBs-unsubscribe@y...
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Bookmarks
and
> > > files:
> > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
> > > > >
> > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > > > Homebrew_PCBs-unsubscribe@y...
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >
> > >
> > > Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Bookmarks and
> > files:
> > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
> > >
> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > Homebrew_PCBs-unsubscribe@y...
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
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> >
> >
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>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Alan,
I found it a while back and like the fact they have prices... Good
prices also..
Hans W

Alan Marconett KM6VV wrote:

> Hi Hans,
>
> Thanks for the URL. All you ever wanted to know about plastics!
>
> Alan KM6VV
>
> HW wrote:
> >
> > I just checked out a whole bunch of this kind of material and using
> > this size for comparison 12"x12"X0.25"
> > prices range from $6.00 to $600.00
> >
> > http://www.interstateplastics.com/fmabout.htm
> >
> > Examples:
> > Pomalux $14.39
> > Delrin $15.75
> > Lenite $6.04 It's Polyethylene but easy to machine and may be
> stable
> > enough to hold PCB's for milling.
> >
> > Hans W
> >
> > Alan Marconett KM6VV wrote:
> >
> > > Hi John,
> > >
> > > Yeah, UMB is like nylon. It would be a good surface to work on.
> > > There
> > > is also that dense foam I mentioned, another TLA (three letter
> > > acronym)
> > > that I still can't recall. UWF??
> > >
> > > Alan KM6VV
> > >
> > >
> > > crankorgan wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hi Alan,
> > > > One of my customers was making things out of a
> > > > cutting board. Seems some of them are white UMB plastic.
> > > > UMB acts like nylon. I think it's UMB? So many letters
> > > > to remember. RCA-JVC-PVC-TRW-ETC.
> > > >
> > > > John
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor

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>
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>
>
>
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Hans,
In Ebay, check out hman16 auctions. He is based in
Florida. He sells scrap plastic.

John

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@y..., HW <hans@c...> wrote:
> Alan,
> I found it a while back and like the fact they have prices... Good
> prices also..
> Hans W
>
> Alan Marconett KM6VV wrote:
>
> > Hi Hans,
> >
> > Thanks for the URL. All you ever wanted to know about plastics!
> >
> > Alan KM6VV
> >
> > HW wrote:
> > >
> > > I just checked out a whole bunch of this kind of material and
using
> > > this size for comparison 12"x12"X0.25"
> > > prices range from $6.00 to $600.00
> > >
> > > http://www.interstateplastics.com/fmabout.htm
> > >
> > > Examples:
> > > Pomalux $14.39
> > > Delrin $15.75
> > > Lenite $6.04 It's Polyethylene but easy to machine and may be
> > stable
> > > enough to hold PCB's for milling.
> > >
> > > Hans W
> > >
> > > Alan Marconett KM6VV wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi John,
> > > >
> > > > Yeah, UMB is like nylon. It would be a good surface to work
on.
> > > > There
> > > > is also that dense foam I mentioned, another TLA (three letter
> > > > acronym)
> > > > that I still can't recall. UWF??
> > > >
> > > > Alan KM6VV
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > crankorgan wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Hi Alan,
> > > > > One of my customers was making things out of a
> > > > > cutting board. Seems some of them are white UMB plastic.
> > > > > UMB acts like nylon. I think it's UMB? So many letters
> > > > > to remember. RCA-JVC-PVC-TRW-ETC.
> > > > >
> > > > > John
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> ADVERTISEMENT
>
>
> >
> > Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Bookmarks and
files:
> >
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
> >
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> > Homebrew_PCBs-unsubscribe@y...
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

John,
Sure I think Delrin is a wonderful material.
I looking forward to the fall when hopefully I'll have some time to do
my own projects.
I've been watching the discussion about mill bits and think there may be
a better solution.
I'd like to try a 2 or 4 flute ball end mill or square cut about
0.007-0.01" in carbide, I think the resulting channel that the ball will
cut into the copper will leave a smooth edge and with the idea of a
really flat surface ( may be a vacuum bed) adjusting the depth of cut so
that almost no FR4 is cut, then the wear in the cutter should be very
low. With this kind of mill bit it should be possible to do 2 trace
between normal IC pads ! The bits cost abotu $25 each but may work out
cheaper in the long run.

Has any one seen or heard of using a laser to cut the PCB copper ?
Recently I got some samples of Laser engraving and it was in aluminum,
cut was about 0.003" wide ! ideal for PCB etching I'd say !
Hans W

I cut most of the thread as it was getting far to long...

Thanks .. he has some good deals..
hansw

crankorgan wrote:

> Hi Hans,
> In Ebay, check out hman16 auctions. He is based in
> Florida. He sells scrap plastic.
>
> John
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Hans,
A ballmill or burr as my local guy calls them work. That's
how I started. I used a steel Dremel bit. It went about 12" before
it became dull. I then went with the Think & Tinker bits. I will
have to give the ball mill a second try. This time it will be
carbide!!! The round tip will allow for variation in board
thickness. I think the plunge speed will have to be changed. Ball
mills like cutting side to side. They are slow cutting straight
on. But if I can get them at $4 each slowing down the Z speed will
still be worth it.

John

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@y..., HW <hans@c...> wrote:
> John,
> Sure I think Delrin is a wonderful material.
> I looking forward to the fall when hopefully I'll have some time to
do
> my own projects.
> I've been watching the discussion about mill bits and think there
may be
> a better solution.
> I'd like to try a 2 or 4 flute ball end mill or square cut about
> 0.007-0.01" in carbide, I think the resulting channel that the ball
will
> cut into the copper will leave a smooth edge and with the idea of a
> really flat surface ( may be a vacuum bed) adjusting the depth of
cut so
> that almost no FR4 is cut, then the wear in the cutter should be
very
> low. With this kind of mill bit it should be possible to do 2 trace
> between normal IC pads ! The bits cost abotu $25 each but may work
out
> cheaper in the long run.
>
> Has any one seen or heard of using a laser to cut the PCB copper ?
> Recently I got some samples of Laser engraving and it was in
aluminum,
> cut was about 0.003" wide ! ideal for PCB etching I'd say !
> Hans W
>
> I cut most of the thread as it was getting far to long...

Hans,
Where are you located? Texas? I keep thinking Germany for
some reason.

John Conrad Kleinbauer

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@y..., HW <hans@c...> wrote:
> Thanks .. he has some good deals..
> hansw
>
> crankorgan wrote:
>
> > Hi Hans,
> > In Ebay, check out hman16 auctions. He is based in
> > Florida. He sells scrap plastic.
> >
> > John
> >
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Houston, Texas

crankorgan wrote:

> Hans,
> Where are you located? Texas? I keep thinking Germany for
> some reason.
>
> John Conrad Kleinbauer
>
>
>
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@y..., HW <hans@c...> wrote:
> > Thanks .. he has some good deals..
> > hansw
> >
> > crankorgan wrote:
> >
> > > Hi Hans,
> > > In Ebay, check out hman16 auctions. He is based in
> > > Florida. He sells scrap plastic.
> > >
> > > John
> > >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Bookmarks and files:
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Homebrew_PCBs-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hans,
Texas has some good scrap plastic places. I got lucky,
there is a place that will sell me scrap within walking
distance. The catch is they took the bridge down to build a
new one. Now I have to go seven miles in each direction
out of my way. The car broke down twice in the detour
route. Now I buy on Ebay.
A year ago I was helping a guy build a laser powered
circuit board machine. Once he got the laser to fire and
cut the copper, then he disappeared! Maybe he pointed it the wrong
way.

John

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@y..., HW <hans@c...> wrote:
> Houston, Texas
>
> crankorgan wrote:
>
> > Hans,
> > Where are you located? Texas? I keep thinking Germany for
> > some reason.
> >
> > John Conrad Kleinbauer
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@y..., HW <hans@c...> wrote:
> > > Thanks .. he has some good deals..
> > > hansw
> > >
> > > crankorgan wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi Hans,
> > > > In Ebay, check out hman16 auctions. He is based in
> > > > Florida. He sells scrap plastic.
> > > >
> > > > John
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> > Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Bookmarks and
files:
> >
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > Homebrew_PCBs-unsubscribe@y...
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

John,
Laser sounds interesting. I think what I would need is a source for the
laser and it's control electronics, the rest I can myself...
Do you have any sources for reasonable priced cutting lasers ?

Is that bridge in Texas ?

Hans W

crankorgan wrote:

> Hans,
> Texas has some good scrap plastic places. I got lucky,
> there is a place that will sell me scrap within walking
> distance. The catch is they took the bridge down to build a
> new one. Now I have to go seven miles in each direction
> out of my way. The car broke down twice in the detour
> route. Now I buy on Ebay.
> A year ago I was helping a guy build a laser powered
> circuit board machine. Once he got the laser to fire and
> cut the copper, then he disappeared! Maybe he pointed it the wrong
> way.
>
> John
>
>
>
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@y..., HW <hans@c...> wrote:
> > Houston, Texas
> >
> > crankorgan wrote:
> >
> > > Hans,
> > > Where are you located? Texas? I keep thinking Germany for
> > > some reason.
> > >
> > > John Conrad Kleinbauer
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@y..., HW <hans@c...> wrote:
> > > > Thanks .. he has some good deals..
> > > > hansw
> > > >
> > > > crankorgan wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Hi Hans,
> > > > > In Ebay, check out hman16 auctions. He is based in
> > > > > Florida. He sells scrap plastic.
> > > > >
> > > > > John
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> > >
> > > Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Bookmarks and
> files:
> > >
> > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
> > >
> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > Homebrew_PCBs-unsubscribe@y...
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> Service.
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Bookmarks and files:
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Homebrew_PCBs-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Hans,
I am in New Jersey. The area I am in is very populated. Any
type of problem causes the area to grid lock. I walk everywhere!
There was a laser site on the internet that has simple cutting
lasers. They are quite large. About 3 feet in length. One of those
deals where the laser stays still and the board does all the moving.
Maybe I will go looking again. If my sales ever go back up I will
get a batch of boards made. Right now I only make boards as they
are ordered. My booklets are done the same way. The last few days I
have been designing a homemade heatsink for the L298. I ended up
using three pieces of scrap aluminum that form a fan. My new board
has 2 relay drivers 5 inputs and four stepper motor outputs. I left
out the L297. I went with 7486s and 7474s to drive the L298. I wanted
a simple board for beginners. The current is set by resistors in
series with the motor. A very crude but effective BiPolar board.

John

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@y..., HW <hans@c...> wrote:
> John,
> Laser sounds interesting. I think what I would need is a source for
the
> laser and it's control electronics, the rest I can myself...
> Do you have any sources for reasonable priced cutting lasers ?
>
> Is that bridge in Texas ?
>
> Hans W
>
> crankorgan wrote:
>
> > Hans,
> > Texas has some good scrap plastic places. I got lucky,
> > there is a place that will sell me scrap within walking
> > distance. The catch is they took the bridge down to build a
> > new one. Now I have to go seven miles in each direction
> > out of my way. The car broke down twice in the detour
> > route. Now I buy on Ebay.
> > A year ago I was helping a guy build a laser powered
> > circuit board machine. Once he got the laser to fire and
> > cut the copper, then he disappeared! Maybe he pointed it the wrong
> > way.
> >
> > John
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@y..., HW <hans@c...> wrote:
> > > Houston, Texas
> > >
> > > crankorgan wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hans,
> > > > Where are you located? Texas? I keep thinking Germany for
> > > > some reason.
> > > >
> > > > John Conrad Kleinbauer
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@y..., HW <hans@c...> wrote:
> > > > > Thanks .. he has some good deals..
> > > > > hansw
> > > > >
> > > > > crankorgan wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Hi Hans,
> > > > > > In Ebay, check out hman16 auctions. He is based
in
> > > > > > Florida. He sells scrap plastic.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > John
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Bookmarks
and
> > files:
> > > >
> > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
> > > >
> > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> > Service.
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> > Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Bookmarks and
files:
> >
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
> >
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> >
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> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hans,

http://wwwx.netheaven.com/~simple3d/

http://www.andruslaser.com/laser/laser.htm

I will keep looking....the site might be gone.


John

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@y..., HW <hans@c...> wrote:
> John,
> Laser sounds interesting. I think what I would need is a source for
the
> laser and it's control electronics, the rest I can myself...
> Do you have any sources for reasonable priced cutting lasers ?
>
> Is that bridge in Texas ?
>
> Hans W
>
> crankorgan wrote:
>
> > Hans,
> > Texas has some good scrap plastic places. I got lucky,
> > there is a place that will sell me scrap within walking
> > distance. The catch is they took the bridge down to build a
> > new one. Now I have to go seven miles in each direction
> > out of my way. The car broke down twice in the detour
> > route. Now I buy on Ebay.
> > A year ago I was helping a guy build a laser powered
> > circuit board machine. Once he got the laser to fire and
> > cut the copper, then he disappeared! Maybe he pointed it the wrong
> > way.
> >
> > John
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@y..., HW <hans@c...> wrote:
> > > Houston, Texas
> > >
> > > crankorgan wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hans,
> > > > Where are you located? Texas? I keep thinking Germany for
> > > > some reason.
> > > >
> > > > John Conrad Kleinbauer
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@y..., HW <hans@c...> wrote:
> > > > > Thanks .. he has some good deals..
> > > > > hansw
> > > > >
> > > > > crankorgan wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Hi Hans,
> > > > > > In Ebay, check out hman16 auctions. He is based
in
> > > > > > Florida. He sells scrap plastic.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > John
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Bookmarks
and
> > files:
> > > >
> > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
> > > >
> > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > > Homebrew_PCBs-unsubscribe@y...
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> > Service.
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> > Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Bookmarks and
files:
> >
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > Homebrew_PCBs-unsubscribe@y...
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hans,
Check this one.

http://www.repairfaq.org/sam/lasercon.htm


John

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@y..., HW <hans@c...> wrote:
> John,
> Laser sounds interesting. I think what I would need is a source for
the
> laser and it's control electronics, the rest I can myself...
> Do you have any sources for reasonable priced cutting lasers ?
>
> Is that bridge in Texas ?
>
> Hans W
>
> crankorgan wrote:
>
> > Hans,
> > Texas has some good scrap plastic places. I got lucky,
> > there is a place that will sell me scrap within walking
> > distance. The catch is they took the bridge down to build a
> > new one. Now I have to go seven miles in each direction
> > out of my way. The car broke down twice in the detour
> > route. Now I buy on Ebay.
> > A year ago I was helping a guy build a laser powered
> > circuit board machine. Once he got the laser to fire and
> > cut the copper, then he disappeared! Maybe he pointed it the wrong
> > way.
> >
> > John
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@y..., HW <hans@c...> wrote:
> > > Houston, Texas
> > >
> > > crankorgan wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hans,
> > > > Where are you located? Texas? I keep thinking Germany for
> > > > some reason.
> > > >
> > > > John Conrad Kleinbauer
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@y..., HW <hans@c...> wrote:
> > > > > Thanks .. he has some good deals..
> > > > > hansw
> > > > >
> > > > > crankorgan wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Hi Hans,
> > > > > > In Ebay, check out hman16 auctions. He is based
in
> > > > > > Florida. He sells scrap plastic.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > John
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Bookmarks
and
> > files:
> > > >
> > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
> > > >
> > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > > Homebrew_PCBs-unsubscribe@y...
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> > Service.
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> > Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Bookmarks and
files:
> >
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > Homebrew_PCBs-unsubscribe@y...
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

John,
Thanks for all the links. I had one of them from before. There is so
much stuff on scanners and building lasers. What I'm looking for a a
place that will sell be one for cutting.
Somewhere I found one link to an outfit that sold a laser engraving work
station but the price was out of my class...

COS walking everywhere... would be good for me ! trouble is Houston is
made for cars... A trip the Krogers is 5 miles ! the bank 11 and
downtown 35...

hansw

crankorgan wrote:

> Hans,
> Check this one.
>
> http://www.repairfaq.org/sam/lasercon.htm
>
>
> John
>
>
>
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@y..., HW <hans@c...> wrote:
> > John,
> > Laser sounds interesting. I think what I would need is a source for
> the
> > laser and it's control electronics, the rest I can myself...
> > Do you have any sources for reasonable priced cutting lasers ?
> >
> > Is that bridge in Texas ?
> >
> > Hans W
> >
> > crankorgan wrote:
> >
> > > Hans,
> > > Texas has some good scrap plastic places. I got lucky,
> > > there is a place that will sell me scrap within walking
> > > distance. The catch is they took the bridge down to build a
> > > new one. Now I have to go seven miles in each direction
> > > out of my way. The car broke down twice in the detour
> > > route. Now I buy on Ebay.
> > > A year ago I was helping a guy build a laser powered
> > > circuit board machine. Once he got the laser to fire and
> > > cut the copper, then he disappeared! Maybe he pointed it the wrong
>
> > > way.
> > >
> > > John
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@y..., HW <hans@c...> wrote:
> > > > Houston, Texas
> > > >
> > > > crankorgan wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Hans,
> > > > > Where are you located? Texas? I keep thinking Germany for
>
> > > > > some reason.
> > > > >
> > > > > John Conrad Kleinbauer
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@y..., HW <hans@c...> wrote:
> > > > > > Thanks .. he has some good deals..
> > > > > > hansw
> > > > > >
> > > > > > crankorgan wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Hi Hans,
> > > > > > > In Ebay, check out hman16 auctions. He is based
> in
> > > > > > > Florida. He sells scrap plastic.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > John
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Bookmarks
> and
> > > files:
> > > > >
> > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
> > > > >
> > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > > > Homebrew_PCBs-unsubscribe@y...
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> > > Service.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> > >
> > > Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Bookmarks and
> files:
> > >
> > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
> > >
> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > Homebrew_PCBs-unsubscribe@y...
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> Service.
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor

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>
> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Bookmarks and files:
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

HW wrote:

>
> John,
> Thanks for all the links. I had one of them from before. There is so
> much stuff on scanners and building lasers. What I'm looking for a a
> place that will sell be one for cutting.
> Somewhere I found one link to an outfit that sold a laser engraving work
> station but the price was out of my class...

I'd think a laser powerful enough to melt copper (might need black
anti-reflection coating), would cause charring of the substrate.
If it was powerful enough for a clean cut thru the copper, then
once it does, it will zip thru the fibre-glass before you know
it, making for a rather dandy jigsaw puzzle making kit.
I could be wrong tho.

Maybe you could use the laser to burn off the etch resist coating
around the tracks and pads, then just etch in acid.

Hi Russ,
Check out the Scratch and Etch method a few weeks
back. A board coated and the pattern is scratched away
using a plotter. Then it is etched.

John

> Maybe you could use the laser to burn off the etch resist coating
> around the tracks and pads, then just etch in acid.

I like the idea of PCB jigsaw puzzles :-)
hansw

Russell wrote:

> HW wrote:
> >
> > John,
> > Thanks for all the links. I had one of them from before. There is so
>
> > much stuff on scanners and building lasers. What I'm looking for a a
>
> > place that will sell be one for cutting.
> > Somewhere I found one link to an outfit that sold a laser engraving
> work
> > station but the price was out of my class...
>
> I'd think a laser powerful enough to melt copper (might need black
> anti-reflection coating), would cause charring of the substrate.
> If it was powerful enough for a clean cut thru the copper, then
> once it does, it will zip thru the fibre-glass before you know
> it, making for a rather dandy jigsaw puzzle making kit.
> I could be wrong tho.
>
> Maybe you could use the laser to burn off the etch resist coating
> around the tracks and pads, then just etch in acid.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

TLA = Three Letter Acronym ;-)

--
Simon Whitehead
s.whitehead@...

> From: "crankorgan" <john@...>
> Reply-To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Sat, 25 May 2002 18:55:28 -0000
> To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: LPKF and Z axis
>
> Hi Alan,
> One of my customers was making things out of a
> cutting board. Seems some of them are white UMB plastic.
> UMB acts like nylon. I think it's UMB? So many letters
> to remember. RCA-JVC-PVC-TRW-ETC.
>
> John